Dating From Your Own Pool

[chinthee]

The British continue to be the most class conscious society on earth. You've managed to find a way to make all the classes you divide yourselves into unattractive.

What a cock!

I wouldn't call someone a chicken for stating the obvious. Let's ask it this way. Can you name a more class conscious major modern society that has its populace locked into less attractive class categories ? One of my British partners once stated it to me like this: "As a social climbing brit, you want to appear that you have money, but not that you have had to work for it." Is that the ideal class you aspire to?

The problem with Brits is that they don't have a lot of chance to move into other classes that they desire so much, unlike more modern places. Ok, let it loose boys.

Will a girl do?

I still don't get this class thing. Another thing I don't get is how it keeps getting brought back to Brits. I can only assume that the people that keep commenting on the British class system have been watching too many Merchant Ivory films. I'm British & I genuinely don't know what class I am. Seriously. My parents & their families are both working class, but they worked to give me an education & any advantage they could. By the time my Dad died he was a director of a company. I now get no salary managing a non-profit org. So, what am I? Anyone like to categorise me? It's a ridiculous argument. People matter - class doesn't.

November Rain, I applaude you and other like you who don't accept the class distinctions, but believe me, there are many more of your countrymen and women who do. I just love the stories like Richard Branson. It restores my hope in England.

[GuestHouse]

It's interesting how many posters have responded by stating 'social class does not matter to their everyday life', perhaps if you are an American raised on the right side of the tracks it does not.

But if you are European, and particularly if you are British, then class has almost certainly dictated the major aspects of your life - Where you were brought up, your education, employment, leisure, health, aspirations and the expectations others have had of you.

Likewise, in Thailand, social class dictates the life choices of Thais - and their children. (your children if you are raising children in as Thais in Thailand).

Stating that you do not agree with Social Class distinctions and the way in which they act on individual choice and opportunity is missing the point - In Thailand today Social Class does have a huge impact: As a parent (or parent to be) recognizing that to be so and working the system is doing your children more of a service than adopting some posture of egalitarianism.

As for guys making statements about the middleclass background of their girlfriend, I feel that is a reaction to the predominance of Western/Thai relationships that are, to use the euphemism, propagated in the ‘Water Trade’.

That is not to deride such relationships, I believe in Marriage and because I believe in promoting and protecting marriage as a priceless (and perhaps sacred) institution, I take the view that a man’s wife is his wife regardless of past history and as such he, her and their marriage must be respected.

But neither is that to deny that background/education/social class absolutely do matter. I therefore see nothing wrong with a guy saying his wife/girlfriend is middleclass or being explicit and saying she is not from ‘The Water Trade’.

If such statements do rub you then perhaps, despite the denials, social class issues do too.

[lannarebirth]

It's interesting how many posters have responded by stating 'social class does not matter to their everyday life', perhaps if you are an American raised on the right side of the tracks it does not.

But if you are European, and particularly if you are British, then class has almost certainly dictated the major aspects of your life - Where you were brought up, your education, employment, leisure, health, aspirations and the expectations others have had of you.

Likewise, in Thailand, social class dictates the life choices of Thais - and their children. (your children if you are raising children in as Thais in Thailand).

Stating that you do not agree with Social Class distinctions and the way in which they act on individual choice and opportunity is missing the point - In Thailand today Social Class does have a huge impact: As a parent (or parent to be) recognizing that to be so and working the system is doing your children more of a service than adopting some posture of egalitarianism.

As for guys making statements about the middleclass background of their girlfriend, I feel that is a reaction to the predominance of Western/Thai relationships that are, to use the euphemism, propagated in the 'Water Trade'.

That is not to deride such relationships, I believe in Marriage and because I believe in promoting and protecting marriage as a priceless (and perhaps sacred) institution, I take the view that a man's wife is his wife regardless of past history and as such he, her and their marriage must be respected.

But neither is that to deny that background/education/social class absolutely do matter. I therefore see nothing wrong with a guy saying his wife/girlfriend is middleclass or being explicit and saying she is not from 'The Water Trade'.

If such statements do rub you then perhaps, despite the denials, social class issues do too.

Good post Guesthouse. While I wish it were less important, I do understand the Thai class system. What I don't understand is the class system that pervades Europe and most especially Britain. You'd think it would be an embarassing relic of the past, yet every Brit you talk to references it in one way or another. BTW, in America you could be born on either side of the tracks, or in another country altogether, coming from whatever class and still reach the same destination through your own effort.

[britmaveric]

Class in Britian? Fk off If you are talking about high society/royal lot then faire enuf (most of them are muppets at any rate), but for the most part it doesn't exist for most people.

[GuestHouse]

So, what am I? Anyone like to categorise me? It's a ridiculous argument. People matter - class doesn't.

Taking the categorization first - My guess (on limited information) is that you are middle class - I say this on the basis of education and aspirations (running a non profit organizatio - working in the voluntary sector is a standard form of middleclass activity) I'm assuming too that your education went as far as college -mbut again information is limited. Income, interestingly plays a minor part in defining social class.

'People matter - class does not'

Well yes, people do matter and so they should - but social class has a huge bearing on too many critical factors in life for you to be able to deny class does matter.

The education your children receive, health and access to health care, life expectancy, involvement in crime, victimhood of crime and the response of government agencies to your needs are all hugely impacted by your social class.

And for men considering how class impacts their children (thinking about your children now, not yourself) - The social class of your wife brings with it all the benefits/pitfalls that come with her social class.

[chinthee]

Class in Britian? Fk off If you are talking about high society/royal lot then faire enuf (most of them are muppets at any rate), but for the most part it doesn't exist for most people.

Is that why you're all so sensitive about it then?

[GuestHouse]

Class in Britian? Fk off If you are talking about high society/royal lot then faire enuf (most of them are muppets at any rate), but for the most part it doesn't exist for most people.

I assure you it does, but don't take my word for it.

Go have a look at who holds to top jobs in the country, who's running your local health service, who's on the board of directors of your bank/building society - Almost all are public school, graduates of a handfull of universities and filling roles that members of their families have held for generations.

[chownah]

Howtoescape,

I hope you figure out how to and do escape.

Sincerely,

Chownah

[GuestHouse]

Class in Britian? Fk off If you are talking about high society/royal lot then faire enuf (most of them are muppets at any rate), but for the most part it doesn't exist for most people.

Is that why you're all so sensitive about it then?

BINGO!

[Pattaya_Fox]

Please do not let this thread degenerate into flaming and bickering or making personal insults.

One member has already been suspended for flaming.

Thank you for your co-operation.

[A_Traveller]

I just love the stories like Richard Branson

Oh so do I except they are just that, stories. Branson came from a reasonably secure financial background being educated at public {Brit term for private} schools, and when the business got into real trouble with HM Customs his mother re-mortgaged the family home, in Surrey. He didn't use the phone box for deals, and the kitchen table was an antique.

He, like other businessmen {1 formally local springs to mind} discovered the value, especially if a large part of your market is younger {or less well off}, of presenting himself as 'the poor boy wat dun good".

Regards

[chinthee]

I just love the stories like Richard Branson

Oh so do I except they are just that, stories. Branson came from a reasonably secure financial background being educated at public {Brit term for private} schools, and when the business got into real trouble with HM Customs his mother re-mortgaged the family home, in Surrey. He didn't use the phone box for deals, and the kitchen table was an antique.

He, like other businessmen {1 formally local springs to mind} discovered the value, especially if a large part of your market is younger {or less well off}, of presenting himself as 'the poor boy wat dun good".

Regards

Well, I have to admit I didn't know he was a public school kid. Yes, that changes things in the same way that Bill Gates came from a well-to-do home.

However, I still respect the hel_l out of any kid who can defy society's norms, chuck away school, and everyon'e expectations, and go start an empire at age 17.

[lannarebirth]

I just love the stories like Richard Branson

Oh so do I except they are just that, stories. Branson came from a reasonably secure financial background being educated at public {Brit term for private} schools, and when the business got into real trouble with HM Customs his mother re-mortgaged the family home, in Surrey. He didn't use the phone box for deals, and the kitchen table was an antique.

He, like other businessmen {1 formally local springs to mind} discovered the value, especially if a large part of your market is younger {or less well off}, of presenting himself as 'the poor boy wat dun good".

Regards

Well, marketers need to market I suppose. What about the Harry Potter author? Is her story legit? Cudos to her anyhow.

[November Rain]

I just love the stories like Richard Branson

Oh so do I except they are just that, stories. Branson came from a reasonably secure financial background being educated at public {Brit term for private} schools, and when the business got into real trouble with HM Customs his mother re-mortgaged the family home, in Surrey. He didn't use the phone box for deals, and the kitchen table was an antique.

He, like other businessmen {1 formally local springs to mind} discovered the value, especially if a large part of your market is younger {or less well off}, of presenting himself as 'the poor boy wat dun good".

Regards

OK, how about JK Rowling? No idea of her early life, but she was on her uppers whilst writing the Harry Potter book(s). I put it like that because she worked on the storyline to all 7 at one time

GH - OK, I'm middle class. A middle class woman who shovels sh!t, every day. Boy, "I dun good!!"

Edit - typo

Edited August 11, 2007 by November Rain

[britmaveric]

Well a uni graduate so perhaps I am in that lot. Anyways I think all can agree in regards to England its not certainly like it used to be.

Edited August 11, 2007 by britmaveric

[A_Traveller]

Oddly enough I've met both these individuals, and despite my post I have a great deal of time for Sir Richard, but I think his real story is just as interesting as the fable. On Ms. Rowling, yes the tale is AFAIK true, when I met her {I have a signed first edition of HP & the Philosopher's Stone} she was just starting to come to terms with the first US advance. The books themselves grew in popularity initially by virtue of the nanny network in the city {London}. Lots of time for her talent and drive too. That is what defines them both, in my view.

Regards

/edit PS She went to university, worked at Amnesty International and taught EFL in Portugal.//

Edited August 11, 2007 by A_Traveller

[bangkoksingapore]

Honestly guys, the reason why farang end up with women from the lower social circles is that they know when they take them out on their first date they have a higher chance of getting them in bed. then they eventually end up in a relationship with one of these girls and in love with her.

Farang is waiting in line. The girl ahead of him is talking to her friend about her medical school classes, the girl behind him is wearing a waitress uniform. They are both equally attractive. On this day, he is not thinking about his future and the implications of choosing a high/middle/low social circle girl, he is actually just thinking about getting their clothing on the floor of his flat. so naturally, he talks to the girl behind him who is more open and willing. she turns out to be a sweet girl, he falls in love, and the rest history. Also, it is more likely that the girl behind him will give him a little giggle, smile or nod to her friend so that he can see that she is interested in him.

Edited August 11, 2007 by bangkoksingapore

[bangkoksingapore]

If you are living in LOS and are not young, rich and/or handsome, your chanches of attaching to an upper class or even middle class lady are slim. They are not going to lower themselves and tarnish their reputation by bothering with Farangs unless they may have something unusual to offer.

What utter nonsense

It ain't nonsense to me pal. That's the reality I have seen every day here for the past three years. IF, they interested in a Farang it is because: 1. The Farang can provide money 2. May be a ticket to take them to the Farang's country. 3. Possibly a handsome charmer (the Farang). It is certainly not because of high level communication. In my three years here, I know about six Thais (women) who speak a level of English sufficient to form a foundation for a good relationship. Four of them have Thai BF's or are married to Thais. The remaing two are shopping for a Frang, who can provide what they may consider adequate financial security. One is asking for 1 million bht dowery. Would you like her email?

In the last three years you have only come across six girls who speak fluent english? That is comical mate.

[ColPyat]

Honestly guys, the reason why farang end up with women from the lower social circles is that they know when they take them out on their first date they have a higher chance of getting them in bed. then they eventually end up in a relationship with one of these girls and in love with her.

This is not anymore the middle ages in Thailand, and if you circle the HiSo parties and upper class clubs (not that difficult to get entry), you can find more than a few birds who jump in the sack with you as fast as anywhere else in the world. Well, if you are young, attractive and fun, or, if not young and attractive, then wealthy enough to appear attractive.

And the same way, not all lower class women are so lose or greedy that they jump into bed with the first farang they meet.

[bangkoksingapore]

Honestly guys, the reason why farang end up with women from the lower social circles is that they know when they take them out on their first date they have a higher chance of getting them in bed. then they eventually end up in a relationship with one of these girls and in love with her.

This is not anymore the middle ages in Thailand, and if you circle the HiSo parties and upper class clubs (not that difficult to get entry), you can find more than a few birds who jump in the sack with you as fast as anywhere else in the world. Well, if you are young, attractive and fun, or, if not young and attractive, then wealthy enough to appear attractive.

And the same way, not all lower class women are so lose or greedy that they jump into bed with the first farang they meet.

how do i get invited to hiso parties?

[chinthee]

Honestly guys, the reason why farang end up with women from the lower social circles is that they know when they take them out on their first date they have a higher chance of getting them in bed. then they eventually end up in a relationship with one of these girls and in love with her.

This is not anymore the middle ages in Thailand, and if you circle the HiSo parties and upper class clubs (not that difficult to get entry), you can find more than a few birds who jump in the sack with you as fast as anywhere else in the world. Well, if you are young, attractive and fun, or, if not young and attractive, then wealthy enough to appear attractive.

And the same way, not all lower class women are so lose or greedy that they jump into bed with the first farang they meet.

how do i get invited to hiso parties?

You either have to be young, handsome and poor, or old, ugly and rich. Invites are sent automatically to people in either category.

[lannarebirth]

Honestly guys, the reason why farang end up with women from the lower social circles is that they know when they take them out on their first date they have a higher chance of getting them in bed. then they eventually end up in a relationship with one of these girls and in love with her.

This is not anymore the middle ages in Thailand, and if you circle the HiSo parties and upper class clubs (not that difficult to get entry), you can find more than a few birds who jump in the sack with you as fast as anywhere else in the world. Well, if you are young, attractive and fun, or, if not young and attractive, then wealthy enough to appear attractive.

And the same way, not all lower class women are so lose or greedy that they jump into bed with the first farang they meet.

how do i get invited to hiso parties?

You either have to be young, handsome and poor, or old, ugly and rich. Invites are sent automatically to people in either category.

I've been to several and I'm middle aged, middle looks, middle money. Usually you need to meet this set while they're meeting someone you know who is in it. In my case I used to live with a princess and she was always talking me up. "He has good habits, meditates, might be rich, can get visa, etc". Then you find the friends dropping by with their daughters with invitations to functions. Met a lot of very higjly positioned people this way. Almost none of them interesting, and their daughters even less so. Better to find someone you like than get involved with social climbing IMO.

Edited August 11, 2007 by lannarebirth

[jetjock]

It was always easy for me to tell the high class girls from the low class girls in my single days. Any girl that was willing to jump into bed with me obviously showed they had no class ! High or low - being a man of no class - I loved them all !!

Edited August 11, 2007 by jetjock

[bangkoksingapore]

Honestly guys, the reason why farang end up with women from the lower social circles is that they know when they take them out on their first date they have a higher chance of getting them in bed. then they eventually end up in a relationship with one of these girls and in love with her.

This is not anymore the middle ages in Thailand, and if you circle the HiSo parties and upper class clubs (not that difficult to get entry), you can find more than a few birds who jump in the sack with you as fast as anywhere else in the world. Well, if you are young, attractive and fun, or, if not young and attractive, then wealthy enough to appear attractive.

And the same way, not all lower class women are so lose or greedy that they jump into bed with the first farang they meet.

how do i get invited to hiso parties?

You either have to be young, handsome and poor, or old, ugly and rich. Invites are sent automatically to people in either category.

I've been to several and I'm middle aged, middle looks, middle money. Usually you need to meet this set while they're meeting someone you know who is in it. In my case I used to live with a princess and she was always talking me up. "He has good habits, meditates, might be rich, can get visa, etc". Then you find the friends dropping by with their daughters with invitations to functions. Met a lot of very higjly positioned people this way. Almost none of them interesting, and their daughters even less so. Better to find someone you like than get involved with social climbing IMO.

So your friends wanted you to marry their daughters?

[lannarebirth]

Honestly guys, the reason why farang end up with women from the lower social circles is that they know when they take them out on their first date they have a higher chance of getting them in bed. then they eventually end up in a relationship with one of these girls and in love with her.

This is not anymore the middle ages in Thailand, and if you circle the HiSo parties and upper class clubs (not that difficult to get entry), you can find more than a few birds who jump in the sack with you as fast as anywhere else in the world. Well, if you are young, attractive and fun, or, if not young and attractive, then wealthy enough to appear attractive.

And the same way, not all lower class women are so lose or greedy that they jump into bed with the first farang they meet.

how do i get invited to hiso parties?

You either have to be young, handsome and poor, or old, ugly and rich. Invites are sent automatically to people in either category.

I've been to several and I'm middle aged, middle looks, middle money. Usually you need to meet this set while they're meeting someone you know who is in it. In my case I used to live with a princess and she was always talking me up. "He has good habits, meditates, might be rich, can get visa, etc". Then you find the friends dropping by with their daughters with invitations to functions. Met a lot of very higjly positioned people this way. Almost none of them interesting, and their daughters even less so. Better to find someone you like than get involved with social climbing IMO.

So your friends wanted you to marry their daughters?

My friend's frinds did, yeah. I never let it get that far, as these aren't really people I even like that much. They're fishing for opportunity. or they're just plain dirty. They're a thoroughly corrupt lot. I met an ex prime minister who was very kind to me, but I'd read he'd sent 2,000 Burmese back to Burma to be disappeared in exchange for a timber deal. I met the COB of a major bank and read his family were opium smugglers. Met a "deposed" PM's sisters and brother many times but I think they were laundering money. Who needs that shit?

Edited August 11, 2007 by lannarebirth

[zaza]

It seems we all are having a very hectic Saturday night!!

Oh ,but I should confess : when I had started to read this thread I had a heart attack(so that's why I could not go out tonight) cause the OP made his choice of dumping ALL the white girls what a LOSS am not from LOS!!!

[eek]

..cant believe this thread is still going strong.

From a little observation of the behaviour of many expat men in Thailand it is hardly surprising that many are not with ladies from a certain "higher" social class. I think its rather fruitless for an expat who had difficulties dating a "higher" class lady in his own country to believe he has more opportunity to do so in Thailand.

Also, as another TV member mentioned, many men prefer the idea of being "in control". Some feel less in control when faced with a more educated lady.

(Although not all "higher" class ladies are well-educated or smart, it is most often the case than not.)

Even so, I am sure the less educated/lower social class status Thai lady is no more or less a good partner in life for their man. It all depends on what the man is looking for, how decent she is, and how the treat each other. All this talk of social class in terms of dating seems a bit silly. Are the rules not obvious? You either have the opportunity if you have something to offer and are in the right social circles, or you have not. It also depends what you are looking for.

If you dont know how the dating thing works by now boys, you are most likely a lost cause

[zaza]

..cant believe this thread is still going strong.

From a little observation of the behaviour of many expat men in Thailand it is hardly surprising that many are not with ladies from a certain "higher" social class. I think its rather fruitless for an expat who had difficulties dating a "higher" class lady in his own country to believe he has more opportunity to do so in Thailand.

Also, as another TV member mentioned, many men prefer the idea of being "in control". Some feel less in control when faced with a more educated lady.

(Although not all "higher" class ladies are well-educated or smart, it is most often the case than not.)

Even so, I am sure the less educated/lower social class status Thai lady is no more or less a good partner in life for their man. It all depends on what the man is looking for, how decent she is, and how the treat each other. All this talk of social class in terms of dating seems a bit silly. Are the rules not obvious? You either have the opportunity if you have something to offer and are in the right social circles, or you have not. It also depends what you are looking for.

If you dont know how the dating thing works by now boys, you are most likely a lost cause

Come on Eek!! let those GUYS have a nice weekend.

[Jersey_UK]

I dunno if other folk post details of their Missus in an attempt to claim higher status, I never read it like that.........

In my case when it is relevent I do mention her background it saves folk responding with stuff like "Go and see the Village Chief" or "don't buy her a new Buffalo"............of course I am probably one of the few TV members who claim that their wife was a Junky Ho' . If life had turned out as envisaged she should have ended up as lawyer.

But IMO she still has more "class" than a shed load of Hooray Henrys

On reflection I think that Britain's Class System has changed a lot, but still exists.

The Upper Classes (by centuries of inbreeding / being taught at "special schools" ) are no longer exclusively where the people with money / in power come from, and apart from exceptions are only really relevent to themselves.

At the bottom are the Chavs who are basically the retards and morons who in times gone passed would have died before reproducing from Cholera, TB or a good old fashioned world war - but who now increase in numbers as they do breed / in breed. IMO they are somewhat below Assylum seekers / illegal immigrants, who at least had the initiative to try and better themselves.

Everyone else is kinda in the middle (not Middle class!) somewhere, albeit as always some folk think they are better than others and folk in Britain do tend to get defind by their job / occupation and money.

Thailand? I think much of what the average Farang regards as HISO behaviour from Thais are just normal folk genuinely looking down their noses at a class / race of people known to walk around with Ho's on their arm.

[draggons]

To the OP, Class?

I met my missus when I had to go to a clinic to have stiches removed, she was the nursing sister, to cut a long story short we started dating, both of us divorced. She eventualy took me home and introduced me to her mother and family, wooden house on stilts out in the sticks. My thoughts were that she'd done well for herself comming from there to having her own place ad looking after two kids.

After being together for a couple of years her mother died and at the cremation got introduced to some of the family I'd not met before, including the Chief Air Marshall of the Royal Thai Airforce, could have dropped me with a feather.

Anyway knowing who the family are conected to now is my missus hi-so or lo-so and am I outside my pool?

DIP SHIT