Please Settle Debate About Bkk And Nyc

[Maigo6]

I've just gone into my garden to do a quick poll amongst the 8 young women who are sitting in the gazabo, guess what, none have ever been raped by a family member or anybody else.

But you live in Japan

Phu Kradung is in Japan ?

And a beautiful place = do you really thin that any of the 8 girls are going to tell you (in front of everyone)that they were raped?

So if nobody ever tells, how does Mr Guesthouse come up with his figures ?

Edited July 17, 2008 by Maigo6

[scotwumman]

The questioning of rape is only a small part of the O.P's original question. IMO 'unreported' is the fundamental issue in this and could refer to both men and women or boys and girls. It could be a very large part of the safety question however and due to the population of Thailand and the fear of accountability throughout would be much less likely to be reported particularly if family orientated.

Agree that it is possibly the most unreported safety issue worldwide which is the manner in which this issue was originally raised.

[Shotime]

I always feel safer in my own country. At least I can speak the language and negotiate. However, I feel safe here in Thailand, too. I think NYC might be more dangerous because of the availability of hand guns. A lot of innocent bystanders get shot over drug turf wars, and the shooters seem to have little regard for human life. At least here, most of the guns are in the hands of the Police.

[surface]

Come on now. Tourists have a much higher chance of being raped in Bangkok than in NYC. I have Thai women friends who will call me at night if the taxi driver is tacking them down quiet roads as they know how unsafe taxis are for single women. In NYC it's the taxi drivers who are afraid of the passengers.

Regarding the OP, there are parts of NYC that are very safe and many parts that are worse than any part of Bangkok. Overall, for the areas most people would be wandering about, NYC is a much safer place to be for many reasons.

[Xangsamhua]

if you avoid bangkok where do you live? dont you get bored?

As the great 18th century wit, Dr Samuel Jatuson said: "He (she) who is tired of Bangkok is tired of life" (or was it shopping?)

[wintermute]

New York city is pretty safe but I think there's more casual violence that isn't reported such as brawls etc.. I see a lot less of that sort of thing in Bangkok. It's very rare that I meet any Thai person that carries a violent chip on their shoulder or at least one that expresses it publicly. I think Bangkok is safer for just that reason.

Edited July 17, 2008 by wintermute

[girlx]

this topic has already been done, but having spent an equal length of time in both places, i would say bangkok is the more dangerous. i never once had any problem in NY living on my own, whereas i have had several problems here.

[RakJungTorlae]

this topic has already been done, but having spent an equal length of time in both places, i would say bangkok is the more dangerous. i never once had any problem in NY living on my own, whereas i have had several problems here.

Such as?

Im sure a few others here would like to know as well.

[Groongthep]

New York city is pretty safe but I think there's more casual violence that isn't reported such as brawls etc.. I see a lot less of that sort of thing in Bangkok. It's very rare that I meet any Thai person that carries a violent chip on their shoulder or at least one that expresses it publicly. I think Bangkok is safer for just that reason.

My feelings exactly. Not just in New York but in most all US cities you'll find a certain type of anti social trouble maker with a chip on his/her shoulder who is actually looking for trouble. A lot of this I believe, is born out of the hip-hop-gangsta mentality that implies that you're not cool if you're not some sort of ill mannered, loud mouth, pushy bad-ass jerk. If you're an American you know the type I'm talking about. They're very common on public transportation in central urban areas, but the small town trailer trash types can be every bit as bad. I don't see nearly as much of this in Thailand as I do in the US so I agree Bangkok seems to be safer for that reason alone.

[girlx]

QUOTE (girlx @ 2008-07-17 20:22:28) *

this topic has already been done, but having spent an equal length of time in both places, i would say bangkok is the more dangerous. i never once had any problem in NY living on my own, whereas i have had several problems here.

Such as?

Im sure a few others here would like to know as well.

already answered this last time it came up both here and on the thorn tree... can't be bothered to find it or retype but you are welcome to do a search.

[pampal]

Oh no, another 'Safety in Thailand' thread.

If you don't have a Thai wife/girlfriend walk around any Thai neighbourhood and count how many houses are covered in bars and security grils.

Counting security grills and window bars proves nothing since in most jurisdictions in the USA, it's illegal to install said grills and bars because of safety statutes regarding fire safety and/or earthquake escape routes. In some jurisdictions in the US they are allowed, as long as they can be opened from the inside of the house.

While we are on the subject of safety, look at how many house in BKK have electronic home security systems and compare it with a comparable size city in the US, when I lived in Los Angeles, almost everyone I knew had a home alarm system. I don't know anybody in BKK who has a home alarm system.

Edited July 17, 2008 by pampal

[Tinkelbell]

This is my two cents.

As a former Thai who lived in NY for over a decade. I never had any problem about safety. Well, I guest that depends where you live, or work etc. I had never been to some seedy area in Bronk, or housing project ghetto.

Living there I always felt easy to take bus, subway or taxi at any hour. Taking taxi in the wee hours to the airport or from airport to my home in Queens had done all the time.

But in TL. Never once my siblings or friends allow me to take taxi alone. THAT speaks volume about safety issue itself ???. They would religiously pick me up or drop me off. Few times one of the friends had to go in a taxi with me to drop me off. These friends ( bless them) always make sure I never be in a taxi by myself.

[elkangorito]

What about the stress of living in NYC? I lost contact with my Italian friend who decided to live in NYC. I knew him when he lived in Italy.

Within 1 year of him living in NYC, he was sending me emails about how depressed he was & how he was seeing a psychiatrist once a month. I told him to leave because seeing a psychiatrist once a month was not a healthy thing unless he knew why he was seeing this professional. It appears to me as though his problem was to do with the cost of living & the extreme placed upon him to "perform" for his company.

I have not heard from him since & this was about 5 years ago.

All he ever complained about was "job pressure".

So, does "The Devil wear Prada?"

[Maigo6]

The questioning of rape is only a small part of the O.P's original question. IMO 'unreported' is the fundamental issue in this and could refer to both men and women or boys and girls. It could be a very large part of the safety question however and due to the population of Thailand and the fear of accountability throughout would be much less likely to be reported particularly if family orientated.

Agree that it is possibly the most unreported safety issue worldwide which is the manner in which this issue was originally raised.

So does that mean if I know more than half a dozen English women, there is a high chance many have been raped ?

What utter crap.

[RakJungTorlae]

QUOTE (girlx @ 2008-07-17 20:22:28) *

this topic has already been done, but having spent an equal length of time in both places, i would say bangkok is the more dangerous. i never once had any problem in NY living on my own, whereas i have had several problems here.

Such as?

Im sure a few others here would like to know as well.

already answered this last time it came up both here and on the thorn tree... can't be bothered to find it or retype but you are welcome to do a search.

What? I aint searching thou half a million threads for that answer to that. Dream on.

[Spee]

I answered BKK, but could have easily said NYC as any answer needs to be qualified. There are areas in both where one could feel safe at any hour of the day or not. Conversely, there are areas in both where one would probably never want to be at any time of the day or night. I totally enjoy being in both cities. Bkk has many wonderful areas to visit and safely have a very good time, as does NYC. It is worth qualifying that being in these cities, as in any big city, one does need to be aware and have the "radar" up and running.

There is one thing that NYC has had but Bkk has never had. During his terms as District Attorney followed by Mayor, NYC was better served by Rudy Giuliani than perhaps any other city in the world in history. As DA, Giuliani broke the mob's stranglehold on the city by prosecuting them and putting them behind bars for lengthy sentences. As both DA and Mayor, he cracked down heavily on "nuisance crimes" and "quality of life crimes" which made many areas of the city much safer and greatly increased the quality of life for the average citizen and visitors.

If the civic leaders were to act in a similar way in Bkk, I think there could be a similar huge turn-around in not only the city's reputation but also in the quality of life for the citizens and visitors.

[Tinkelbell]

What about the stress of living in NYC? I lost contact with my Italian friend who decided to live in NYC. I knew him when he lived in Italy.

Within 1 year of him living in NYC, he was sending me emails about how depressed he was & how he was seeing a psychiatrist once a month. I told him to leave because seeing a psychiatrist once a month was not a healthy thing unless he knew why he was seeing this professional. It appears to me as though his problem was to do with the cost of living & the extreme placed upon him to "perform" for his company.

I have not heard from him since & this was about 5 years ago.

All he ever complained about was "job pressure".

So, does "The Devil wear Prada?"

I see your point.

Living in a big crowded cities causes stress, especially to those working in NYC can drive you to extreme. It's very competive market. High paying and all perks has drawn people from all over the world to the Big Apple.

Famouse song " New York, New York" says it best........

" If I made it there, I'd make it anywhere.

It's up to you New York New York......"

New Yorkers love to go Central Park to unwind and seek serenity.

[Tinkelbell]

quoted ..............." There is one thing that NYC has had but Bkk has never had. During his terms as District Attorney followed by Mayor, NYC was better served by Rudy Giuliani than perhaps any other city in the world in history. As DA, Giuliani broke the mob's stranglehold on the city by prosecuting them and putting them behind bars for lengthy sentences. As both DA and Mayor, he cracked down heavily on "nuisance crimes" and "quality of life crimes" which made many areas of the city much safer and greatly increased the quality of life for the average citizen and visitors ".......

..................................................................

Very well said from ' Spee'.

Totally agree with the wonder job that Mayor Rudy Giuliani had done to the city. It was a miracle to see NYC has turned itself to the best.

Everyone who had visited NYC before Rudy reign's 1994-2001 ( that inclued friends from TL cousins from other States, all praise highly for this Mayor.

[PhilHarries]

Sorry I appear to have missed something. What debate Bangkok versus New York City? I wasn't aware that such a debate had been held.

While we are at it, why limit it to BKK v NYC? What about comparisons between Bangkok and Cuidad Bolivar or Stourbridge or Ouagadougou or Alice Springs or Baton Rouge or Nuuk?

I've lived in neither New York nor Bangkok so I can't really comment except that I'd say the safety of either city is largely dependant on the colour of your skin.

[Hawkup2000]

Forgive me if I am wrong, but is´nt NY and Bangkok to big areas to measure? I mean should I compare...let´s say Bronx to Bang na and then Manhattan to Siam- low Sukhumvit or what?

If I had a kid I would rather let her stroll alone in Lumpini park than in Central park. On the other hand I would rather let her walk alone in in a safe street in Manhattan than Soi wat Mokuut late evening...

And what about all the other risk factors? It is´nt just about crime. How about traffic accident ratio ect. I don´t know. Any ideas?

[JSixpack]

I'd take a flying guess that organised crime is a lot more powerful in NYC than BKK . . . .

Did you include the police?

[kjameson]

NYC born and raised (18 years), 10+ years in Bangkok; now in purgatory paying for my sins

Overall NYC is a safer city. Emergency medical care would be more readily available in NYC (police, fire department, EMS, etc).

On the other hand would not count on a New Yorker giving you a helping hand if you are injured, while I have seen many the occasion of Thais giving assistance to someone in need regardless of their nationality or the colour of their skin.

Of course there are many more places within NYC that you would not want find yourself without a platoon of Marines as backup, but those places would have nothing of interest to a normal city resident or tourist.

Rudy Giuliani was U.S. Attorney for the Southern District of New York, which is a federal government position, before becoming Mayor. While I don’t disagree that the man did a great job of getting New York back on its feet and made Mid Town Manhattan a place where people could walk around without fear; I’ve always wondered where did all of the homeless people go?

I also think that your safety has little to do with the colour of ones skin and more to do with your sense of where you are, who is around you and behaving in a manner appropriate to the situation. FWIW

[Hawkup2000]

NYC born and raised (18 years), 10+ years in Bangkok; now in purgatory paying for my sins

Overall NYC is a safer city. Emergency medical care would be more readily available in NYC (police, fire department, EMS, etc).

On the other hand would not count on a New Yorker giving you a helping hand if you are injured, while I have seen many the occasion of Thais giving assistance to someone in need regardless of their nationality or the colour of their skin.

Of course there are many more places within NYC that you would not want find yourself without a platoon of Marines as backup, but those places would have nothing of interest to a normal city resident or tourist.

Rudy Giuliani was U.S. Attorney for the Southern District of New York, which is a federal government position, before becoming Mayor. While I don't disagree that the man did a great job of getting New York back on its feet and made Mid Town Manhattan a place where people could walk around without fear; I've always wondered where did all of the homeless people go?

I also think that your safety has little to do with the colour of ones skin and more to do with your sense of where you are, who is around you and behaving in a manner appropriate to the situation. FWIW

Interesting post . Educating, as I never been to the US. All I have seen of NY is NYPD, CSI.NY and..ohh..yes..Crockdile dundee .

[girlx]

QUOTE (elkangorito @ 2008-07-18 01:02:05) *

What about the stress of living in NYC? I lost contact with my Italian friend who decided to live in NYC. I knew him when he lived in Italy.

Within 1 year of him living in NYC, he was sending me emails about how depressed he was & how he was seeing a psychiatrist once a month. I told him to leave because seeing a psychiatrist once a month was not a healthy thing unless he knew why he was seeing this professional. It appears to me as though his problem was to do with the cost of living & the extreme placed upon him to "perform" for his company.

I have not heard from him since & this was about 5 years ago.

All he ever complained about was "job pressure".

So, does "The Devil wear Prada?"

Well if you have a good enough job it's not an issue. I didn't know too many people suffering from job pressure in NY.

On the other hand would not count on a New Yorker giving you a helping hand if you are injured, while I have seen many the occasion of Thais giving assistance to someone in need regardless of their nationality or the colour of their skin.

Hrmm I disagree, New Yorkers are very friendly and helpful, despite their reputation otherwise, which was probably earned because of their gruff way of speaking. I think Thais would be more likely to ignore an emergency, and in fact I have seen this in motorbike accidents on the street where they just stand around staring at the bleeding, writhing guy on the ground.

Pre-Guiliani, NY was dangerous, nowadays I think it is safer than most other places in the world.

[kjameson]

Hrmm I disagree, New Yorkers are very friendly and helpful, despite their reputation otherwise, which was probably earned because of their gruff way of speaking. I think Thais would be more likely to ignore an emergency, and in fact I have seen this in motorbike accidents on the street where they just stand around staring at the bleeding, writhing guy on the ground.

Pre-Guiliani, NY was dangerous, nowadays I think it is safer than most other places in the world.

The great thing about life is we all see things just a little bit different. I can live with the thorns that living in Thailand has, but have no desire to deal with life in NYC again. It's been many years since I actually lived in New York full time, so perhaps the people have changed for the better, I would hope so.

Agree that Guiliani made changes in the way the police department handled crime and made them accountable, and those that followed him have seemed to continued the improvements. Will be interesting the see what happens if the economy continues to decline and the high priced jobs begin to be phased out, and the city begins to lose tax resources, what will Manhattan look like than, will it return to the days of old. I just don't see Bangkok changing that much, but I could be wrong (have been more often than not).

[BEENTHEREDONETHAT]

Oh no, another 'Safety in Thailand' thread.

Ask your Thai wife/girlfriend how safe she feels in Thailand - In almost all cases her 'Thai' understanding of the issue (informed by her deep understanding of her own culture) is almost certainly going to be a bit more jaded than a foreigner's 'relatively superficial' understanding of crime in Thailand.

If you don't have a Thai wife/girlfriend walk around any Thai neighbourhood and count how many houses are covered in bars and security grils.

I did check the bars and security grills and I did not find either in the area I live. And I'm not aware of any crime in the area (other than the driving which is a crime). By the way I live in Cha Am.

That is one of the things that appealed to us about LOS the lack of bars, security grills and barb wire on the fences. In central america it was like each home was a prison.

[uptou]

Oh no, another 'Safety in Thailand' thread.

If you don't have a Thai wife/girlfriend walk around any Thai neighbourhood and count how many houses are covered in bars and security grils.

I thought they had bars on window frames because generally they aint got much in the way of windows.

I would say you have to be more careful of theft in the uk.Theres people here on a quiet beach that leave outboard motors on the back of their boats overnight.In the uk they'd be going walkies at some point.

[CaptHaddock]

I have been living in New York City since 1976, when crime was a major problem. I do find reading all these paeans to Giuliani sickening. Giuliani was a polarizing, racist figure in the city. During his first campaign he personally incited a police riot. He was not, repeat not, responsible for the drop in crime in NYC. His chief accomplishment was getting credit somehow for the city's response to 911. The facts are that he left the city's command center located in the World Trade Center even after being warned that it was a risky choice after the attempted bombing of it in 1993. In the aftermath of the 9/11 attack Giuliani, who was not eligible to run in the next mayoral election because of term limits. proposed the idea of suspending the election. Even during the Civil War elections were not suspended. A true lover of democracy.

As a prosecutor, it is true that Giuliani went after the mafia. It is also true that his father was a leg breaker for the mob.

During the 90's crime dropped in all major US cities, most of which were lucky enough not to have Giuliani as mayor. The universal drop in crime is most thoughtfully ascribed to three factors, none of which Giuliani was responsible for: the high incarceration rates of minorities due to the racially biased enforcement of the drug laws, the increase in police coverage following declines in the 70's, and the Roe vs Wade Supreme Court 1973 decision legalizing abortion. Legalized abortion enabled poor women the ability to avoid having unwanted children that would then have had a higher than average rate of criminality. Those states, including NY, that legalized abortion a few years prior to Roe v. Wade experienced the drop in crime a few years earlier also. Needless to say, the abortion aspect is controversial.

Giuliani, like most politicians, is distinguished chiefly by his ability to claim credit for the achievements of others.

As to whether NYC is safer than BKK, I couldn't say. However, NYC is indeed safe, at least the middle-class areas. I have been burgled and held up at gun-point, but not within the last twenty years. No one ever speaks about crime here or takes special precautions to avoid it. Once again, this observation is restricted to the middle-class neighborhoods. The poor areas are a different world.

[cobra]

Not even a debate,

I assure you, you break down in the middle of the night in Queens or the Bronx, you'll wish you were anywhere in BKK, at any time.

[Ulysses G.]

Not even a debate,

I assure you, you break down in the middle of the night in Queens or the Bronx, you'll wish you were anywhere in BKK, at any time.

EXACTEMUNGO!