Do Farang Want The Thai People To Remain Poor?

[bangkoksingapore]

I have to admit that I was somewhat sickened and confused by the people complaining that Thailand is starting to get expensive. Yes, Thailand might e getting more expensive and the Thai people are doing better for themselves. More and more Thai people are purchasing their own home. Thailand's economy has done well these last couple of years and things are looking bright for the Thai people's future, but this seems to anger many of you. Do you instead wish the worst for Thai people because you want to remain in Thailand for cheap prices? Personally, I love the Thai people and I hope their economy grows quickly and I hope they continue to improve their standard of living. The rest of you should really take a good look in the mirror, the only thing that is special about you is that you won the birth lottery. So please excuse the Thailand having the nerve to experience economic growth.

Edited August 12, 2007 by bangkoksingapore

[jumnien]

I basically agree with you. However, is it compassionate to suggest that we all take a good hard look at ourselves at 5:45 in the morning! I like to have a cup of tea and stretch a bit before undertaking the deep process of self-inquiry and completing my moral inventory.

[JimsKnight]

BKKSingapore, what do you equate as being poor? The thai people in the cities and towns are not as poor as you might think.

If Thailand really does get rich-rich like N/W Europe has and mega expensive then I'm sure another 3rd world country will take Thailands place quite easily.

I personally don't really have a problem with a countrys citizens enjoying economic prosperity. But I think if it brings the Westernized attitudes and mentality that goes with it then Thailand will not be Thailand anymore, at least not as we know it.

[solent01]

Calm down my friend, take a deep breath, hold for about ten seconds, then exhale through your nose.

Now, dosn't that feel better?

[bangkoksingapore]

Jim it seems like farang want to have it both ways. A friend once told me the same thing about Nepal. He said "nobody likes the idea of all the people in Nepal getting an internet connection and finding out about Britney Spears. They want them to remain a poor and magical land that they can come and visit a month out of the year to remember what life could be like, and then when the month is up they want to leave and go back to their own life style of the internet and Britney Spears. " It seems like he really nailed it to me.

[cdnvic]

I don't think anyone wants to keep Thais poor, but those who are on a fixed income and retired here have a legitimate worry about costs going up too much. With the large gap between rich and poor in Thailand, many Thais themselves have reason to worry about this as their incomes may not rise correspondingly. These people will not only suffer the consequences of rising prices, but will have fewer options to deal with it than expats with other opportunities and better mobility.

[PeaceBlondie]

Having lived in rural Nicaragua and Chiapas, and after working with displaced internal refugees in Chiapas, I assure you I will never wish for anybody to be homeless, jobless, and desperately destitute. No, I don't see the posters on this forum rejoicing that the Thais are poor. Far more often, we complain that it is the old elite Thais who keep them poor, and we hope the Thais we know and see will live long and prosper. However, "live long and prosper" doesn't require a 37 inch flat screen monitor and two Toyotas in every carport next to the four bedroom home. I walk my dog past many 13 room homes where the Thais seem no happier than the somtam vendors.

[bangkoksingapore]

Ah yes, the elite Thais. I haven't heard that one before.

[endure]

As Peaceblondie says - it's not we farang who are keeping the Thais poor - it's their own 'leaders'

[englishoak]

Ah yes, the elite Thais. I haven't heard that one before.

And of course it's simply not true Right ?

[solent01]

I'm kind of thinking the OP is angry with something, but using this as an excuse to let off steam........

Edited August 12, 2007 by solent01

[Jet Gorgon]

I see more "poor" people in Vancouver. It's comparative. Basic living is at least ten times more expensive here than in Thailand. Even basic wage earners ($9 an hour, and a shared apartement is at least $600 a month) pay alot of tax. Free healthcare? 555 $50 a month and pay for your own prescriptions and dental work ($130 for cleaning viz about $15 in Thailand). Basic living in Thailand is cheap. It's getting ahead in any country that takes skill, smarts and contacts. Lots of wealthy people in every country of the world; Burma, Phils, N Korea. Gotta be born into the dictator family is all.

Solent, nice to see your sweet face.

Edited August 12, 2007 by Jet Gorgon

[solent01]

Hey Babe, lost a friend the other week, shot gun to the head, sent me crazy for a while, glad to be back though

[sceadugenga]

I'm kind of thinking the OP is angry with something, but using this as an excuse to let off steam........

His point is relevant but possibly a little confrontationaly worded.

I discussed this in my ThaiVisa Blog recently in what I hoped was a tongue in cheek manner. I pointed out that the establishment of a Thai middle class was the beginning of the end for Third World tourism here and some of the signs of it were people jogging before work and riding bicycles the 20kms to Chiang Rai to work everyday.

I suppose a major rise in the cost of living wouldn't affect me much, I have most of the toys I need and live fairly modestly.

We're still going to be looking at a huge leap from 200B a day for a workman to the sort of wages paid for a similar job in Australia and the UK. Personally I don't think I'll see it in my lifetime and if it comes I'll just have to send the Mrs out to work.

Edited August 13, 2007 by sceadugenga

[bangkoksingapore]

well do you have any proof that only the elite have benefited from Thailand's economic growth? yes, many of the rural areas are way behind, but they are farther ahead then they were x years ago. construction in these provinces has grown, has it not? thailand's middle class has definitely grown, this undeniable.

i don't mean to be confrontational. perhaps some people don't realize that there might be a reason why prices are higher, instead they think they are being cheated or something silly.

[solent01]

Yeah very confrontationally worded.

But Sceady, I think you are right about the end of third world tourism here in Thailand, things are changing

[englishoak]

First off 1% still controls 90% of the money In LOS and probably always will. that IS elitist.

Second, an awful lot of money was handed out / loaned to the Farming community in the last Govs term. It's not a free ride and an awful lot of ventures/ houses/farms are being re posessed. check out the banks websites to see.

Wages have NOT risen in line with inflation for the masses and The bht buys a lot less on the street than 5 years ago.

Business profit margins other than the stock market ( until last week ) are wayyy down accross the board.

The last 5 years have seen a massive shift in production going to Vietnam etc and will continue to do so.

Not least, the price of oil has had an undeniable effect on the general cost of transport and prices accross the board.

The prices of housing and land, much the same as throughout the world has rocketed creating a feel good factor and easy money much of which is being seen in the middle classes, this is being re-spent very quickly assuming things will only continue ever upwards. I welcome economic growth everywhere but also feel Thailand ( along with many places in the world )is about to learn a hard lesson in economics vs growth.

It will also be the middle classes who will carry this burden. You can only lose money if you have some in the first place. If you have lots then you will afford the loss. if you have nothing you have nothing to lose. If you have a bit but not too much then it's gonna hurt like h#ll.

I hope it does not happen and wish only the best for Thailand but can't see the last few years Growth being anything other than a house of cards.

BTW be as confrontational as you wish no problem, and yes there are a lot of negative posters here but also a lot of realistic ones too.

Edited August 13, 2007 by englishoak

[Naam]

Jim it seems like farang want to have it both ways. A friend once told me the same thing about Nepal. He said "nobody likes the idea of all the people in Nepal getting an internet connection and finding out about Britney Spears.

is this a result of your alcohol consumption of last night or do you start boozing alread early in the morning?

[solent01]

Oak

I agree with you to a point, but saying that if you have money you are going to lose....... how is that so?

I made my money during the last recession in England, and reading between the lines, that’s what you are implying is going to happen world wide......... like I said I agree to a point, just that I don't totally understand what your point is......

[jackmuu]

It is the ruling classes that want to keep the majority of Thai people poor and stupid, it is to their advantage, that is why the basic free education is crap and they are fed nonsense on the TV with almost no educational programmes except for a minute of that painful English on tour and the bald farang who dresses up in silly costumes to present a "whacky" 2 minutes of English.

I don't think that many of us well paid expats that plow a lot of our hard earned money into the Thai economy want Thailand to stay poor, my wife and her family are Thai and I like to see their situation improve, maybe some of the budget English teachers and retirees would like the place to stay cheap but that's just human nature.

If someone needs to be ranted at, a look far closer to home is needed.

[howtoescape]

I have to admit that I was somewhat sickened and confused by the people complaining that Thailand is starting to get expensive. Yes, Thailand might e getting more expensive and the Thai people are doing better for themselves. More and more Thai people are purchasing their own home. Thailand's economy has done well these last couple of years and things are looking bright for the Thai people's future, but this seems to anger many of you. Do you instead wish the worst for Thai people because you want to remain in Thailand for cheap prices? Personally, I love the Thai people and I hope their economy grows quickly and I hope they continue to improve their standard of living. The rest of you should really take a good look in the mirror, the only thing that is special about you is that you won the birth lottery. So please excuse the Thailand having the nerve to experience economic growth.

Im sure most want Thais to be rich and prosperous, yet at the same time wanting prices to remain as they are to keep the illusion of being wealthy in LOS going. 2 totally opposing poles, to highlight the hypocracy.

Edited August 13, 2007 by howtoescape

[El Taco Loco]

The OP seems to have some bitterness, and it is not about falangs in Thailand.

If you can see the educational curriculum handed down by their own leaders, deliberately dumbing down the sciences and math, you would retract your original post.

Their newspapers, full of blood pics and gossip. Educational? No.

Their news. A lot of talk. Their game shows. No need to talk about those! Cartoons? Ditto.

Since tv takes up a large part of their lives, please tell me what the hel_l does the falang have to do with this?

[solent01]

It is the ruling classes that want to keep the majority of Thai people poor and stupid, it is to their advantage, that is why the basic free education is crap and they are fed nonsense on the TV with almost no educational programmes except for a minute of that painful English on tour and the bald farang who dresses up in silly costumes to present a "whacky" 2 minutes of English.

I don't think that many of us well paid expats that plow a lot of our hard earned money into the Thai economy want Thailand to stay poor, my wife and her family are Thai and I like to see their situation improve, maybe some of the budget English teachers and retirees would like the place to stay cheap but that's just human nature.

If someone needs to be ranted at, a look far closer to home is needed.

Yeap....... Thats how I feel too But The bold fella, I like him, kind of a Thai Benny Hill

[englishoak]

Only that the hardest hit in a recession are mostly the middle classes, they have some money but often it's tied up in property with a relatively large loan etc not liquid . ie: lose job lose home. Go back to square one, at the bottom.

If you owe the bank £1 no problem

If you owe the bank £100,000 It's your problem

If you owe the bank £ 10,00000 it's their problem

If you owe the banks £ 10 billion it's your governments/countries problem

If you owe the banks £10 trillion it's everyones problem

And yes i'm in the global recession camp.

Edited August 13, 2007 by englishoak

[solent01]

Well Oak, I'm in the later, It will never be my problem........... Are you sure about that????

I work very close with my bank in England, and I can assure you that every deal I make, I am accountable for!!!!!!

Go to sleep and come back when you are sober my friend.

[Ulysses G.]

Yes, most expats here want Thais to stay poor so that they can live the extravagant lifestyles that they think that they deserve - on the cheap.

I remember right before the Thai baht collapsed in 1997 how angry the local Farangs were getting that Thais were starting to frequent "our" bars and restaurants. It was getting hard to get a seat.

In fact, the local Go-Go Bars would put up reserved signs for the best seats so that Thais couldn't sit in them. When white patrons walked in, the signs would be removed so that they could sit there. The collapse of the economy put a stop to that.

I don't mean that expats sit around wishing ill luck on individual Thais, but despite their professed "love" for the place, most of them would flee with the wind if they ever had to pay the same kind of bills for food and rent that they would have to pay in their own countries.

Edited August 13, 2007 by Ulysses G.

[englishoak]

Well Oak, I'm in the later, It will never be my problem........... Are you sure about that????

Good for you and so am I most of the middle class are not. Who said I was talking about you Sol ? I was answering the OP. Thats my point.

Are you sure YOUR awake & sober ?

[mijan24]

Ah yes, the elite Thais. I haven't heard that one before.

Then either you have not been in Thailand very long or you get around with your eyes and ears closed.

Who do you think owns the majority of mansions and super cars you see everyday?? please do not say "farangs" - The thai gent who has spent about 150mil on a pet project (resort) in KK NE Thailand is certainly "elite" yet that doesn't make him into not being a nice guy and the many Thais he employs all believe he is a nice guy (without him no work hence no money) yet I am also sure they would class him as being "elite" or whatever the Thai word for it is.

[solent01]

Very awake and very sober, in twenty minutes my company is meeting officials regarding a major local contract we have just completed.

I was simply responding to the “facts” that you posted..

[bangkoksingapore]

"Wages have NOT risen in line with inflation for the masses and The bht buys a lot less on the street than 5 years ago."

Can you provide proof to this statement.