2 minutes ago, JamesPhuket10 said:

 

Why were we surprised when Russian invaded Ukraine, we had been pushing Russia further and further into a corner over the last few decades surrounding them with NATO nations who are against Russia, with Ukraine wanting to join.

 

I suppose when the Germans for example were trying to invade the UK in the 2nd WW we should have just sat on our hands and let them?

 

Exactly right, the West bears great responsibility for unleashing the war against Ukraine. On many levels.

1 hour ago, Cameroni said:

 

Politicians lie? My God since when???

Only the politicians on the right engage in deceit, while those on the left embody purity and integrity.

They have lied to Poland before.

3 hours ago, Sydebolle said:

Not quite Sir, the civil war in Ukraine goes back to 2014 with a well hidden genocide as we know. The Russians were teased ever since the re-unification of German's communist German Demoractic Republic (GDR) with West Germany. That meant that GDR left the Warsaw Pact to join NATO, as West Germany is a NATO member. 
The unification and subsequent release of GDR into NATO, under the watchful eyes of the Americans, was agreed upon between Kohl (West German Chancellor) and his foreign minister Genscher, the Soviet Secy General Gorbachev and his foreign minister Shevardnadze, the NATO Secy General Wörner in Minsk. The Soviet condition to their agreement was, that NATO would not expand any further to the East; that was the agreement 30 years ago. 

 

Did NATO Promise Not to Enlarge? Gorbachev Says “No”

It is abundantly evident that Russian President Vladimir Putin is no fan of NATO. Indeed, he displays a pronounced—almost obsessive—antipathy toward the Alliance. He claims that NATO took advantage of Russian weakness after the collapse of the Soviet Union to enlarge to its east, in violation of promises allegedly made to Moscow by Western leaders. But no such promises were made—a point now confirmed by someone who was definitely in a position to know: Mikhail Gorbachev, then president of the Soviet Union.

https://www.brookings.edu/articles/did-nato-promise-not-to-enlarge-gorbachev-says-no/

 

As soon as a politician (especially one as dodgy as Lavrov) says something like that, then you should be worried about it, as it will probably happen. Another example would be Rachel from Accounts in the UK standing up and saying "We won't raise taxes on working people"... ta-da, it happened.

3 hours ago, Sydebolle said:

It is a civil war between those Ukrainians who want to be under the Russian umbrella  (due to culture and language which is very similar to Ukrainian) and those who do NOT want to. 

Less similar than Spanish is to Italian. Less similar than Italian is to French.

 

Ukrainian and Russian share roughly 55% to 62% lexical similarity, which is not enough to make them mutually intelligible—no more than an average English speaker could automatically comprehend Dutch. In practice, Ukrainian and Russian have vocabulary differences that can quickly confound a non-native speaker.

https://www.trustedtranslations.com/blog/do-ukrainians-and-russians-speak-the-same-language?utm_source=chatgpt.com

 

Spanish and Italian have around 82% of their vocabulary in common. This doesn't mean that the words are exactly the same between the two languages, but that they have similar roots and that they are linguistically related.

To compare, Italian has 89% of its vocabulary in common with French and Spanish has 89% in common with Portuguese.

https://autolingual.com/italian-vs-spanish/?utm_source=chatgpt.com

25 minutes ago, Alan Zweibel said:

 

Did NATO Promise Not to Enlarge? Gorbachev Says “No”

It is abundantly evident that Russian President Vladimir Putin is no fan of NATO. Indeed, he displays a pronounced—almost obsessive—antipathy toward the Alliance. He claims that NATO took advantage of Russian weakness after the collapse of the Soviet Union to enlarge to its east, in violation of promises allegedly made to Moscow by Western leaders. But no such promises were made—a point now confirmed by someone who was definitely in a position to know: Mikhail Gorbachev, then president of the Soviet Union.

https://www.brookings.edu/articles/did-nato-promise-not-to-enlarge-gorbachev-says-no/

 

 

Talk about misinformation. 

 

Lol.

4 hours ago, Sydebolle said:

Not quite Sir, the civil war in Ukraine goes back to 2014 with a well hidden genocide as we know. The Russians were teased ever since the re-unification of German's communist German Demoractic Republic (GDR) with West Germany. That meant that GDR left the Warsaw Pact to join NATO, as West Germany is a NATO member. 
The unification and subsequent release of GDR into NATO, under the watchful eyes of the Americans, was agreed upon between Kohl (West German Chancellor) and his foreign minister Genscher, the Soviet Secy General Gorbachev and his foreign minister Shevardnadze, the NATO Secy General Wörner in Minsk. The Soviet condition to their agreement was, that NATO would not expand any further to the East; that was the agreement 30 years ago. 

Warsaw Pact collapsed 2009, the NATO expansion went unhindered East and has all the hand-writing of short-changing USSR/Russia oncemore again. In October 1962 US President Kennedy promised USSR Secy General Khrushchev to close the US military bases in Italy and Turkey .... provided the Soviets would withdraw from Cuba. Khrushchev left Cuba and the US did not do a thing which brought Khrushchev's career - who lost face big time among the Comrades - to a screeching end at the Kremlin. 

Fast forward 20 years ahead, a tit-for-tat deal again and NATO did not stick to their part of the commitment. Putin walks into the Kremlin 20+ years ago and is meanwhile the longest serving sparring partner in this story. If you are aware that Putin is not Russian but a Soviet by mindset (he spent his formative years as a Soviet; more than half his life (40 years) as a Soviet and has seen it all. 

Well, if you ask me, you can tease something or somebody so and so long until the dam breaks and the dam broke 3 ½ years ago. Arguably he could have resorted to non-violent methods like switching off the gas supplies to the West due to "maintenance work on the pipelines" which could take years. But given spineless European leadership, the puppetmistress Von der Leyen and her puppets across the road at NATO ........ 

To conclude, listen very very very careful, what Russians say as in most cases they are patient until they had it - and in this case I can understand Russia in general and Putin in particular. 

Game over soon - for Ukraine and plenty of reparation business for the West on behest of the West and paid for by the Ukrainians with wheat supplies for the coming 50 years or similar - see Iraq where oil flows as barter pay-back for the next decades ........ 

Cool story, bro. 

33 minutes ago, Alan Zweibel said:

 

Did NATO Promise Not to Enlarge? Gorbachev Says “No”

It is abundantly evident that Russian President Vladimir Putin is no fan of NATO. Indeed, he displays a pronounced—almost obsessive—antipathy toward the Alliance. He claims that NATO took advantage of Russian weakness after the collapse of the Soviet Union to enlarge to its east, in violation of promises allegedly made to Moscow by Western leaders. But no such promises were made—a point now confirmed by someone who was definitely in a position to know: Mikhail Gorbachev, then president of the Soviet Union.

https://www.brookings.edu/articles/did-nato-promise-not-to-enlarge-gorbachev-says-no/

 

Former Soviet leader Mikhail Gorbachev has criticized NATO's eastward expansion and the failure by Western powers to keep their promise not to deploy military bases near Russia's borders.

 

Gorbachev said in an interview with Germany's Bild newspaper published on Thursday that Western Germany, the United States and other powers had pledged after Germany's reunification in 1990 that "NATO would not move a centimeter to the east."

 

Gorbachev said the Americans had failed to fulfill the promise and the Germans had also turned a blind eye.

 

"They probably rubbed their hands rejoicing at having played a trick on the Russians," the former Soviet leader told the paper, adding that this had led to Russia's disillusionment with post-Cold War relations with the West.

 

https://www.gorby.ru/en/presscenter/publication/show_26613/

1 hour ago, Cameroni said:

Former Soviet leader Mikhail Gorbachev has criticized NATO's eastward expansion and the failure by Western powers to keep their promise not to deploy military bases near Russia's borders.

 

Gorbachev said in an interview with Germany's Bild newspaper published on Thursday that Western Germany, the United States and other powers had pledged after Germany's reunification in 1990 that "NATO would not move a centimeter to the east."

 

Gorbachev said the Americans had failed to fulfill the promise and the Germans had also turned a blind eye.

 

"They probably rubbed their hands rejoicing at having played a trick on the Russians," the former Soviet leader told the paper, adding that this had led to Russia's disillusionment with post-Cold War relations with the West.

 

https://www.gorby.ru/en/presscenter/publication/show_26613/

I dont know runs www.gorby.ru but I searched for that interview on the internet couldn't find it.

6 minutes ago, Alan Zweibel said:

I dont know runs www.gorby.ru but I searched for that interview on the internet couldn't find it.

 

Strange, easy to find that interview if you speak German.

 

https://www.n-tv.de/politik/Gorbatschow-kritisiert-NATO-article65030.html

 

https://www.bild.de/politik/inland/michail-gorbatschow/gorbatschow-zum-tag-der-deutschen-einheit-53797750.bild.html

1 hour ago, Alan Zweibel said:

 

Did NATO Promise Not to Enlarge? Gorbachev Says “No”

It is abundantly evident that Russian President Vladimir Putin is no fan of NATO. Indeed, he displays a pronounced—almost obsessive—antipathy toward the Alliance. He claims that NATO took advantage of Russian weakness after the collapse of the Soviet Union to enlarge to its east, in violation of promises allegedly made to Moscow by Western leaders. But no such promises were made—a point now confirmed by someone who was definitely in a position to know: Mikhail Gorbachev, then president of the Soviet Union.

https://www.brookings.edu/articles/did-nato-promise-not-to-enlarge-gorbachev-says-no/

 

 

You are right, the politicians in the West are as pure as driven snow, none of them, not even one would ever tell lies or make false promises, only the Russians are capable of that. 😄

14 minutes ago, Cameroni said:

 

Strange, easy to find that interview if you speak German.

 

https://www.n-tv.de/politik/Gorbatschow-kritisiert-NATO-article65030.html

 

https://www.bild.de/politik/inland/michail-gorbatschow/gorbatschow-zum-tag-der-deutschen-einheit-53797750.bild.html

The first link does not lead to any interview. The second one goes to one different from the one that allegedly occurred on or around apr 2, 2009.

Anyway, here's a quote from that article with a translation following by Google Translate

 

"Was die Vorwürfe betrifft, es sei nicht ausreichend gewesen, Gorbatschow hätte mit der Nato einen Vertrag „über das Verbot der Nato-Osterweiterung“ unterschreiben sollen (vor Kurzem von Wladimir Putin wiederholt), so finde ich sie – mild ausgedrückt – befremdlich."

"As for the accusations that it wasn't enough for Gorbachev to have signed a treaty with NATO "prohibiting NATO's eastward expansion" (recently reiterated by Vladimir Putin), I find them – to put it mildly – strange."

 

Here's some more:

 

"Die Bundesrepublik hielt sich und hält sich weiterhin an sämtliche Verpflichtungen. Ein „Vertrag über die Nichterweiterung der Nato“ wäre damals nicht einmal juristisch möglich gewesen. Denn bis Juli 1991 gab es zwei Militärbündnisse – die Nato und den Warschauer Vertrag. Die Mitglieder des Warschauer Vertrags brachten diese Frage nicht zur Sprache. Es wäre schon ziemlich merkwürdig gewesen, hätte die sowjetische Führung es getan."

"The Federal Republic of Germany adhered and continues to adhere to all its commitments. A "Treaty on the Non-Expansion of NATO" would not even have been legally possible at that time. Until July 1991, there were two military alliances – NATO and the Warsaw Pact. The members of the Warsaw Pact did not raise the issue. It would have been quite strange if the Soviet leadership had done so."

1 hour ago, Cameroni said:

Former Soviet leader Mikhail Gorbachev has criticized NATO's eastward expansion and the failure by Western powers to keep their promise not to deploy military bases near Russia's borders.

Russia signed an agreement stating they would hornor Ukraine sovereignty.  The Budapest Memorandum (1994).

21 minutes ago, JamesPhuket10 said:

 

You are right, the politicians in the West are as pure as driven snow, none of them, not even one would ever tell lies or make false promises, only the Russians are capable of that. 😄

The Russian propaganda is strong with you. 

2 hours ago, Cameroni said:

 

Exactly right, the West bears great responsibility for unleashing the war against Ukraine. On many levels.

Dude, this total and complete utter BullChips. 

Liars.

35 minutes ago, Cameroni said:

 

Strange, easy to find that interview if you speak German.

 

https://www.n-tv.de/politik/Gorbatschow-kritisiert-NATO-article65030.html

 

https://www.bild.de/politik/inland/michail-gorbatschow/gorbatschow-zum-tag-der-deutschen-einheit-53797750.bild.html

It looks to me like you've been a victim of Russian disinformation.

9 minutes ago, Mike_Hunt said:

The Russian propaganda is strong with you. 

 

The American land of the free is even stronger with it having been driven into you from a young age. 

 

I think most Americans do not even know where Russia is even though it is just a couple of miles from the USA. 😄

6 minutes ago, Alan Zweibel said:

It looks to me like you've been a victim of Russian disinformation.

 

It looks to me like you're a victim of your inability to speak German. The ntv link above clearly proves the veracity of the article.

21 minutes ago, Alan Zweibel said:

The first link does not lead to any interview.

 

The first link clearly repeats the words from the Gorbatchev interview quoted in the original article.

17 minutes ago, Mike_Hunt said:

Russia signed an agreement stating they would hornor Ukraine sovereignty.  The Budapest Memorandum (1994).

 

Yes, made null and void after Ukraine's government changed and Ukraine jumped into bed with the US, NATO and the EU.

15 minutes ago, Mike_Hunt said:

Dude, this total and complete utter BullChips. 

 

Really, NATO promised not to expand eastwards. Then said they'd just lied. 

 

Boris Johnson flew to meet Zelensky to ensure he did not sign a treaty with Russia that would have prevented the current strategy.

 

The West bears a lot of responsibility for this war.

2 hours ago, JamesPhuket10 said:

 

The American land of the free is even stronger with it having been driven into you from a young age. 

 

I think most Americans do not even know where Russia is even though it is just a couple of miles from the USA. 😄

Russia is nothing but a gas station posing as a country. 

2 hours ago, Cameroni said:

The West bears a lot of responsibility for this war.

Negative. 

I was not surprised.

Tomorrow's news today (yes Alex Jones) predicted this months earlier.

8 hours ago, Schoggibueb said:

At least the russians failed to influence the vote in Moldova.

 

https://www.themoscowtimes.com/2025/09/29/moldovas-pro-eu-party-wins-key-polls-after-russian-meddling-claims-a90647

 

 

No not because the Russians failed but :

Moldova's Pro-EU Party Wins Key Vote After Govt Ban On Several 'Pro-Russian' Parties.

https://www.zerohedge.com/geopolitical/moldovas-pro-eu-party-wins-key-vote-after-govt-ban-several-pro-russian-parties

 

Authoritarian EU behind this , just like in Romania.

4 hours ago, Cameroni said:

 

Yes, made null and void after Ukraine's government changed and Ukraine jumped into bed with the US, NATO and the EU.

Really? A sovereign nation doesn't have the right to join alliances of its choosing? Isn't allowed to join whatever economic union it wishes to. From what source did you derive that cr#p formulation?

11 minutes ago, Alan Zweibel said:

Really? A sovereign nation doesn't have the right to join alliances of its choosing? Isn't allowed to join whatever economic union it wishes to. From what source did you derive that cr#p formulation?

 

Come on, this is not Lionking. This is real life. In real life smaller countries have to consider the interests of larger nations. Just ask Panama.

The Russians also want people to believe that they never invaded Poland, Czechoslovakia  and eastern Finland prior to the start of WWII, as part of its evil alliance with Nazi Germany.  Russia also wants people to believe that it never forcefully occupied Lithuania, Estonia and Latvia, Hungary, Romania, Poland, Bulgaria  and had a puppet state in Yugoslavia. Stalin lives again with the Putin regime.