Tags/licenses For Bigger Motorcycles

[ufkenmill]

I just had an unfortunate run-in with the chiang mai boys in brown on my way to work (I teach) this morning. I was sitting at a stoplight and out of nowhere I had 3 cops pull up next to me on motorbikes and told me to come with them. I thought I'd be able to pay the obligatory 'fee' and be on my way, but these guys wouldn't take any money. They insisted that I went to the police station with them. They simply wouldn't take a bribe there.

They had pulled me over because I have a honda superfour 400cc motorcycle with no tag on it. I had bought it from a rental shop but it's never had a tag. I didn't think much of it because the owner of the shop said if I got pulled over it wouldn't be a problem, I'd just pay 1-200baht and be on my way. I have insurance but no tag on it and apparently I need a sticker to prove that tax has been paid on it?

So I got to the police station (they drove my bike with me on the back) and they said they were going to keep the bike unless I paid them 1000baht. So 1000baht lighter I was on the street within 15minutes after that.

My question is, how much is it for a proper tag? I was told by the bike shop it was around 50,000baht for one, which is why there wasn't one on it. This seems to be extortion by the government just for owning a bigger bike. 50,000baht is more than the bike is worth!

[Khutan]

Seems like you didn't know every Thai law and custom before buying the bike. This sort of thing is not uncommon. Another good one to be aware of is if you buy some land (for your wife) and you negotiate a price, when you want to go to the Ampour to transfer the title, they want a few thousand baht to sign their name.... So if you buy land, you also need to negotiate the "Signing fee" as well.

[Horizontalbiker]

Not that extortionate I'm glad to say, try going to an insurance agent, they will normaly get your tax disc for you. I ride a 250 and was told that there is a flat rate for anything over 150, can't remember the exact price but insurance and tax didn't come to over 3,000. Very basic insurance I might add, which included tea money for not having to get the bike checked over by the police.

[Dutchy2]

I just had an unfortunate run-in with the chiang mai boys in brown on my way to work (I teach) this morning.  I was sitting at a stoplight and out of nowhere I had 3 cops pull up next to me on motorbikes and told me to come with them.  I thought I'd be able to pay the obligatory 'fee' and be on my way, but these guys wouldn't take any money.  They insisted that I went to the police station with them.  They simply wouldn't take a bribe there. 

They had pulled me over because I have a honda superfour 400cc motorcycle with no tag on it.  I had bought it from a rental shop but it's never had a tag.  I didn't think much of it because the owner of the shop said if I got pulled over it wouldn't be a problem, I'd just pay 1-200baht and be on my way.  I have insurance but no tag on it and apparently I need a sticker to prove that tax has been paid on it?

So I got to the police station (they drove my bike with me on the back) and they said they were going to keep the bike unless I paid them 1000baht.  So 1000baht lighter I was on the street within 15minutes after that. 

My question is, how much is it for a proper tag?  I was told by the bike shop it was around 50,000baht for one, which is why there wasn't one on it.  This seems to be extortion by the government just for owning a bigger bike.  50,000baht is more than the bike is worth!

 

Just get any tag, tell your students that you want to buy one for 500 baht and they will surely 'find' one for you. You can then write the info on the insurance tag

Official registration is indeed expensive, prob. 50-60,000 thousand but this is Thailand. I'm sure a bike shop can think of a creative solution to register your bike without paying this much money.

I've got two big bikes with proper registration and tax/insurance stickers and have only been asked once for the stickers after five years in the kingdom. If you've got a tag they can only fine you for not having the tax sticker but this can also be solved.

Good luck

Dutchy

[Dutchy2]

Not that extortionate I'm glad to say, try going to an insurance agent, they will normaly get your tax disc for you. I ride a 250 and was told that there is a flat rate for anything over 150, can't remember the exact price but insurance and tax didn't come to over 3,000. Very basic insurance I might add, which included tea money for not having to get the bike checked over by the police.

My bikes are a bit bigger than yours but even for my 1200 XJR I pay approx. 110 baht tax and 700 baht insurance, you've been ripped off in other words.

Bikes are never checked by the police that's something else, older bikes need to be checked by a mechanic (not more than 150 baht) at a registered companybefore you can get the tax sticker and receipt. But again, this is Thailand, pay 200 baht extra and you get the tax sticker for 300 baht.

[Horizontalbiker]

Official registration is that expensive?

I got my bike for 32,000 baht, including green book, new plates and relevant tags. Got it from a dealer. Should I be worried or do you think the dealer came up with a "creative solution."?

[Ajarn]

I just had an unfortunate run-in with the chiang mai boys in brown on my way to work (I teach) this morning.  I was sitting at a stoplight and out of nowhere I had 3 cops pull up next to me on motorbikes and told me to come with them.  I thought I'd be able to pay the obligatory 'fee' and be on my way, but these guys wouldn't take any money.  They insisted that I went to the police station with them.  They simply wouldn't take a bribe there. 

They had pulled me over because I have a honda superfour 400cc motorcycle with no tag on it.  I had bought it from a rental shop but it's never had a tag.  I didn't think much of it because the owner of the shop said if I got pulled over it wouldn't be a problem, I'd just pay 1-200baht and be on my way.  I have insurance but no tag on it and apparently I need a sticker to prove that tax has been paid on it?

So I got to the police station (they drove my bike with me on the back) and they said they were going to keep the bike unless I paid them 1000baht.  So 1000baht lighter I was on the street within 15minutes after that. 

My question is, how much is it for a proper tag?  I was told by the bike shop it was around 50,000baht for one, which is why there wasn't one on it.  This seems to be extortion by the government just for owning a bigger bike.  50,000baht is more than the bike is worth!

 

Are you saying your bike has no license plate on the rear? Do you have an owners book showing you as the registered owner? If so, then you need to make police report for the missing plate first, then take a copy of the report to the DMV in your area, and apply for a new plate (new number, actually) No Sweat.

No book? Forget it.

And this idea of being able to make an illegal bike legal, in any way, for 50,000 baht is an Urban Legend. I challenge anyone to prove me wrong. I would like to be wrong this time.

Best advice is to find a plate off a junk bike and use that. Of course, it won't stand to inspection, but it won't ever be a reason to stop you, meaning you're probably fine in Thailand.

Oh, by the way, if your bike isn't legal, your insurance for it is useless- except for the sticker, of course

[Horizontalbiker]

Not that extortionate I'm glad to say, try going to an insurance agent, they will normaly get your tax disc for you. I ride a 250 and was told that there is a flat rate for anything over 150, can't remember the exact price but insurance and tax didn't come to over 3,000. Very basic insurance I might add, which included tea money for not having to get the bike checked over by the police.

My bikes are a bit bigger than yours but even for my 1200 XJR I pay approx. 110 baht tax and 700 baht insurance, you've been ripped off in other words.

Bikes are never checked by the police that's something else, older bikes need to be checked by a mechanic (not more than 150 baht) at a registered companybefore you can get the tax sticker and receipt. But again, this is Thailand, pay 200 baht extra and you get the tax sticker for 300 baht.

Thanks for the info Dutchy2, renewal coming up soon, should have some fun with the agent I normaly use. And yes, registerd mechanic not police, my mistake.

[Dutchy2]

No book? Forget it.

And this idea of being able to make an illegal bike legal, in any way, for 50,000 baht is an Urban Legend. I challenge anyone to prove me wrong. I would like to be wrong this time.

Best advice is to find a plate off a junk bike and use that. Of course, it won't stand to inspection, but it won't ever be a reason to stop you, meaning you're probably fine in Thailand.

Oh, by the way, if your bike isn't legal, your insurance for it is useless- except for the sticker, of course

I do not think that a public message board is the place to discuss illegal practises but you'd better talk to some owners of big bike shops and they may explain to you what can be done in Thailand.

[Ajarn]

No book? Forget it.

And this idea of being able to make an illegal bike legal, in any way, for 50,000 baht is an Urban Legend. I challenge anyone to prove me wrong. I would like to be wrong this time. 

Best advice is to find a plate off a junk bike and use that. Of course, it won't stand to inspection, but it won't ever be a reason to stop you, meaning you're probably fine in Thailand.

Oh, by the way, if your bike isn't legal, your insurance for it is useless- except for the sticker, of course 

I do not think that a public message board is the place to discuss illegal practises but you'd better talk to some owners of big bike shops and they may explain to you what can be done in Thailand.

Experience, sir. I have done the talking to shops. Many over 20 years. Never ever heard of even one case of illegal-to-legal. Have you? I've been there, done that, here for a long time. Please prove me wrong.

And, advice is advice. Take it, or leave it.

Duthchy2

Just get any tag, tell your students that you want to buy one for 500 baht and they will surely 'find' one for you. You can then write the info on the insurance tag

Surely a case of the pot calling the kettle black

[Dutchy2]

Thanks for the info Dutchy2, renewal coming up soon, should have some fun with the agent I normaly use. And yes, registerd mechanic not police, my mistake.

Interesting is that the best shop for big bikes in bangkok IMHO, the Red Baron, can't do this check up for the tax. You need to take your big bike to a shop that does the check for small bikes where they have no clue about big bikes. That's however not really relevant as it's the point is here the safety of the bike.

Another interesting thing is that you can only buy Harley Davidson and BMW motorbikes brandnew in Thailand. Other brands unfortunatly do not pass the strict Thai safety tests for new vehicles. I know it's a joke but such is the situation in Thailand.

Does anyone know of any other country where they ban basically all brand new motorbike brands?

Dutchy

[Dutchy2]

No book? Forget it.

And this idea of being able to make an illegal bike legal, in any way, for 50,000 baht is an Urban Legend. I challenge anyone to prove me wrong. I would like to be wrong this time. 

Best advice is to find a plate off a junk bike and use that. Of course, it won't stand to inspection, but it won't ever be a reason to stop you, meaning you're probably fine in Thailand.

Oh, by the way, if your bike isn't legal, your insurance for it is useless- except for the sticker, of course 

I do not think that a public message board is the place to discuss illegal practises but you'd better talk to some owners of big bike shops and they may explain to you what can be done in Thailand.

Experience, sir. I have done the talking to shops. Many over 20 years. Never ever heard of even one case of illegal-to-legal. Have you? I've been there, done that, here for a long time. Please prove me wrong.

And, advice is advice. Take it, or leave it.

I find this very naive, when people in the Netherlands, the Uk and anywhere else can change the ID of vehicles in order to sell it again (or register on another book) you think that this is not done in Thailand?

[Ajarn]

No book? Forget it.

And this idea of being able to make an illegal bike legal, in any way, for 50,000 baht is an Urban Legend. I challenge anyone to prove me wrong. I would like to be wrong this time. 

Best advice is to find a plate off a junk bike and use that. Of course, it won't stand to inspection, but it won't ever be a reason to stop you, meaning you're probably fine in Thailand.

Oh, by the way, if your bike isn't legal, your insurance for it is useless- except for the sticker, of course 

I do not think that a public message board is the place to discuss illegal practises but you'd better talk to some owners of big bike shops and they may explain to you what can be done in Thailand.

Experience, sir. I have done the talking to shops. Many over 20 years. Never ever heard of even one case of illegal-to-legal. Have you? I've been there, done that, here for a long time. Please prove me wrong.

And, advice is advice. Take it, or leave it.

I find this very naive, when people in the Netherlands, the Uk and anywhere else can change the ID of vehicles in order to sell it again (or register on another book) you think that this is not done in Thailand?

Like I said, please prove me wrong

[Ajarn]

A little more background....

If your bike is imported as used parts and assembled here, in theory, as long as you have import invoices and taxes paid, you can register your bike and get an owners book.

Most of the plateless big bikes in Thailand have been imported as used parts from Japan, and reassembled here. I've had two such bikes in the last few years. One which I also restored myself.....

http://asiarecipe.com/images/motorcycle1.jpg

http://asiarecipe.com/images/motorcycle2.jpg[/url] http://asiarecipe.com/images/motorcycle3.jpg[/url]

So, in theory, you can make them legal.... I have known of a number of people who've tried, and a couple of them were 'successful' in Bkk, and one in Phuket....And this is after paying extra tea money, even though it's supposed to be legal.....

Then, in each case, when they tried to move the registration to where they lived, the registration was refused because of 'numbers not matching', which means either, frame, engine, plate, or book numbers that don't match...

I've also just talked with David Unkovich, who has more of this kind of experience than anyone I know. He also related exactly the same stories for other people he has known... Nobody has ever had their paperwork from such situations hold up to inspection outside of the office where they first became legal. In every case, just as in my experiences, discrepencies were found in the paperwork- and these were not simply stories to get bribed.

I feel that there are some officials in BKK and Phuket who do offer, for a price, to make your bike legal....Maybe it's fine as long as you don't try to move registration, and only go back to that official who helped you before, because nobody seems to be able to make it work anywhere else.

My advice is, don't waste your time with these guys who tell you they can make your bike legal for a price. History says you'll never see your money again, and you're still going to be riding an illegal bike. One that might be insurable, but just try to collect on your insurance. Illegal bikes are not allowed on the road, and are uninsurable. The insurers don't care to check now (not like after a claim...) because they win either way, and they know it....

Bike Bike Buyer Beware

[Dutchy2]

A little more background....

If your bike is imported as used parts and assembled here, in theory, as long as you have import invoices and taxes paid, you can register your bike and get an owners book.

Most of the plateless big bikes in Thailand have been imported as used parts from Japan, and reassembled here. I've had two such bikes in the last few years

So, in theory, you can make them legal.... I have known of a number of people who've tried, and a couple of them were 'successful' in Bkk, and one in Phuket....And this is after paying extra tea money, even though it's supposed to be legal.....

Then, in each case, when they tried to move the registration to where they lived, the registration was refused because of 'numbers not matching', which means either, frame, engine, plate, or book numbers that don't match...

I've also just talked with David Unkovich, who has more of this kind of experience than anyone I know. He also related exactly the same stories for other people he has known... Nobody has ever had their paperwork from such situations hold up to inspection outside of the office where they first became legal. In every case, just as in my experiences, discrepencies were found in the paperwork- and these were not simply stories to get bribed.

I feel that there are some officials in BKK and Phuket who do offer, for a price, to make your bike legal....Maybe it's fine as long as you don't try to move registration, and only go back to that official who helped you before, because nobody seems to be able to make it work anywhere else.

My advice is, don't waste your time with these guys who tell you they can make your bike legal for a price. History says you'll never see your money again, and you're still going to be riding an illegal bike. One that might be insurable, but just try to collect on your insurance. Illegal bikes are not allowed on the road, and are uninsurable. The insurers don't care to check now (not like after a claim...) because they win either way, and they know it....

Bike Bike Buyer Beware

Good post...

Strange that the numbers did not match, for renewing the tax a copy of the frame and engine number is required, this should match the ones in the book. If you can pay tax on the bike, you should also be able to move it to another province...

I would not recommend doing these kind of things, if you get an accident or even worse, kill someone in an accident with an illegal vehicle you're in deep ***.

Lots of legal bikes available at the major shops, so why make life difficult?

Dutchy

[Ajarn]

Strange that the numbers did not match, for renewing the tax a copy of the frame and engine number is required, this should match the ones in the book. If you can pay tax on the bike, you should also be able to move it to another province...

I would not recommend doing these kind of things, if you get an accident or even worse, kill someone in an accident with an illegal vehicle you're in deep ***.

Lots of legal bikes available at the major shops, so why make life difficult?

Dutchy

And one might suggest that buying a used, plateless, rental bike is not such a good idea, either

Yeah, strange about the numbers..

Last year, I decided to sell my 2 Honda 750's (after a stroke, I can't ride anymore)

One was legal, one was an 'import'....

I realised I lost my owners book, and my wife had to go to BKK (where the bike was registerd) to apply for a new book. As requested by BKK, she took the engine and frame scrapings, along with all the needed paperwork. My wife gave them 2,000 baht for 'express service'. Everything went smoothly, and she got a new book, seemingly everything in order, the next day...

When she got back here to CM, I then sold the legal bike for 60,000 baht. When the new owner went to register and pay taxes, they refused him. They said there was a discrepency in the numbers....One number off on the motor # in the book.

My wife went back to BKK, and went back to the vehicle registration, and talked to the guy who helped her before...He said he would straighten it out, but after a week of waiting at their office all day, I told my wife to come home....

I refunded the guy's money to him and took my bike back (now repainted). I sold the bike again, but since it couldn't get registered, I had to drop 20,000 baht off the price...More than one year on, the guy in BKK is still straightening out the book....

To the original poster in Chiang Mai, if you ever decide to buy a legal used bike, I'd recommend 'German Joe', a great guy who fixes bikes in Chiang Mai. He's a good contact if you want to buy or sell a bike.... (053) 251-186

And I totally agree about being in deep shit in case of an accident in an illegal vehicle....You'll be escorted to the police station, where you'll be a guest untill ALL settlements are completed...

[ufkenmill]

Thanks for all the great feedback. I have another question based on a follow-up posting. You said the insurance I have is useless because the bike isn't legal? That's great, good to know now. I'm driving around thinking I'm covered in case of an accident and apparently I'm not.

As far as how smart it was to buy a used, plateless, rental bike goes, it's hard to say exactly what could be classified as smart or not. I had a 150 and I wanted to upgrade but I didn't have much money and I had been rented big bikes from this guy many times. He's a pretty decent guy for the most part. He let me buy it in two payments and gave me a 6 month warranty on the engine.

Also, I have a bit of a problem in that I don't have a non-imm B visa or a work permit. The school I work for will pay for the visa fees and will arrange and pay for a work permit but I have to leave the country to get the B obviously and I'll be doing that this month. So the bike is still in the name of the guy I bought it from (the rental shop) and I can't do anything until I have the visa.

I'm going to speak with him today to see if he can do anything about the tax sticker at minimum and possible a plate, but I don't have much hope for a positive result. never hurts to try though. I don't have the cash to be shelling out 50-60,000baht for a plate though and I'm not gonna have a student steal one for me (I"m supposed to be an example for the students remember).

And yes, this was imported from Japan as used parts and I have the book for it.

[Ajarn]

Thanks for all the great feedback.  I have another question based on a follow-up posting.  You said the insurance I have is useless because the bike isn't legal?  That's great, good to know now.  I'm driving around thinking I'm covered in case of an accident and apparently I'm not.

As far as how smart it was to buy a used, plateless, rental bike goes, it's hard to say exactly what could be classified as smart or not.  I had a 150 and I wanted to upgrade but I didn't have much money and I had been rented big bikes from this guy many times.  He's a pretty decent guy for the most part.  He let me buy it in two payments and gave me a 6 month warranty on the engine.

Also, I have a bit of a problem in that I don't have a non-imm B visa or a work permit.  The school I work for will pay for the visa fees and will arrange and pay for a work permit but I have to leave the country to get the B obviously and I'll be doing that this month.  So the bike is still in the name of the guy I bought it from (the rental shop) and I can't do anything until I have the visa.

I'm going to speak with him today to see if he can do anything about the tax sticker at minimum and possible a plate, but I don't have much hope for a positive result.  never hurts to try though.  I don't have the cash to be shelling out 50-60,000baht for a plate though and I'm not gonna have a student steal one for me (I"m supposed to be an example for the students remember).

And yes, this was imported from Japan as used parts and I have the book for it.

Ummm. Illegal teacher on an illegal bike. Time for a change, maybe?

You said you have an owners book, and the bike is registered in the guy's name from the rental shop...If that's the case, it seems that you should have no problem....You should also have no problem paying the taxes- if the owners book is in order. And anyone can go and pay the taxes. If there is a problem paying the taxes, it'll be because your paperwork isn't in order...Like maybe the book is bogus....

Where's the plate that goes with the book? Unless he has the plate, you (the registered owner, actually) have to do a police report before you can apply for a new one....A new (legit) plate is only a few hundred baht...

Good luck with the work permit...Of course, you're joining a new world of headaches and taxes, but there are benefits to being a legal worker, too, like free health care through Social Security. And you don't have to worry about some ###### dropping a dime on you to immigration