Alternative To Extensions Based On Retirement?

[Jingthing]

I am currently on an extension of an O visa based on retirement. I have no problem qualifying for it at present but looking to the future rules changes (tea leaves again) I was wondering whether another scenario would work. I keep reading about Brits having no problem getting multi entry O visas that can be stretched to 15 months involving 3 month border runs. Are most of you guys married to a Thai? I am not married to a Thai and never will be married to a Thai, but I do own a condo. Do you think there are friendly consulates in the US that would accept this as a reason for a one year multi entry O visa: wish to live for the upcoming year in the condo that I own in Thailand. That isn't asking for retirement, just to live for one year at a time, which strangely is exactly the same thing in effect as the extension based on retirement, save the visa runs. Would this work?

If that reason wouldn't work, is there any reason for the visa that would work that wouldn't be a lie?

Another warning to potential retirees to Thailand. You can easily buy a condo in Thailand in your own name. But there is no guarantee whatsoever that will be allowed to actually LIVE in that condo over the long term. Lovely, huh?

Edited August 15, 2007 by Jingthing

[true blue]

ive been coming to los for last 6 yrs on multi o works great for me plan nice trip when renewall due singas hg kong viet cambodia in between just go to mai sai or back home nu worries i rent house or condo no money lay out more to spend in los

[Jingthing]

ive been coming to los for last 6 yrs on multi o works great for me plan nice trip when renewall due singas hg kong viet cambodia in between just go to mai sai or back home nu worries i rent house or condo no money lay out more to spend in los

What consulate/embassy in what country do you use? What reason do you use?

[Krub]

Another warning to potential retirees to Thailand. You can easily buy a condo in Thailand in your own name. But there is no guarantee whatsoever that will be allowed to actually LIVE in that condo over the long term. Lovely, huh?

I think this is pretty much the case anywhere but thanks for the warning.

Which country gives you the right to live long term just by owing property ? The USA maybe ?

[Kaojai]

I am currently on an extension of an O visa based on retirement. I have no problem qualifying for it at present but looking to the future rules changes (tea leaves again)

Another warning to potential retirees to Thailand. You can easily buy a condo in Thailand in your own name. But there is no guarantee whatsoever that will be allowed to actually LIVE in that condo over the long term. Lovely, huh?

I've lived in 4 "developing countries" over the past 33 years and in each of them there has been some sort of gossip mill predicting the end of the world in terms of conditions for expats. Some people seem to derive pleasure from propagating these rumors of doom and gloom.

They were, of course, 100% wrong, 100% of the time.

If you really feel so ill at ease about the prospects of living here, why continue to stay? This isn't Uganda under Idi Amin. There isn't going to be some wholesale deportation of expats who contribute to the economy. The people who have the greatest influence on the government's policies are the same people who profit from real estate development, tourism and retail sales. Whatever their feelings about farang, they are still pragmatic.

They have made it obvious that they want expats who meet certain financial criteria... people who have money and spend it here. People who were circumventing the spirit of the law by creating fictitious businesses in order to buy property or unqualified people who came here to teach English and live on B10,000 a month or those who otherwise took advantage of loopholes or lax enforcement, are causing a backlash. The backlash is, however, selective and I don't see any evidence (aside from the "wink,wink, gossip, gossip") that people who comply with the fairly simple requirements have anything to worry about.

But, you should be able to enjoy your retirement. If you spend all your time worrying about the future in Thailand and how you'll manage to cope, that can't be enjoyable. Find some place where you'll be able to relax.

[jackspratt]

I am currently on an extension of an O visa based on retirement. I have no problem qualifying for it at present but looking to the future rules changes (tea leaves again)

Another warning to potential retirees to Thailand. You can easily buy a condo in Thailand in your own name. But there is no guarantee whatsoever that will be allowed to actually LIVE in that condo over the long term. Lovely, huh?

I've lived in 4 "developing countries" over the past 33 years and in each of them there has been some sort of gossip mill predicting the end of the world in terms of conditions for expats. Some people seem to derive pleasure from propagating these rumors of doom and gloom.

They were, of course, 100% wrong, 100% of the time.

If you really feel so ill at ease about the prospects of living here, why continue to stay? This isn't Uganda under Idi Amin. There isn't going to be some wholesale deportation of expats who contribute to the economy. The people who have the greatest influence on the government's policies are the same people who profit from real estate development, tourism and retail sales. Whatever their feelings about farang, they are still pragmatic.

They have made it obvious that they want expats who meet certain financial criteria... people who have money and spend it here. People who were circumventing the spirit of the law by creating fictitious businesses in order to buy property or unqualified people who came here to teach English and live on B10,000 a month or those who otherwise took advantage of loopholes or lax enforcement, are causing a backlash. The backlash is, however, selective and I don't see any evidence (aside from the "wink,wink, gossip, gossip") that people who comply with the fairly simple requirements have anything to worry about.

But, you should be able to enjoy your retirement. If you spend all your time worrying about the future in Thailand and how you'll manage to cope, that can't be enjoyable. Find some place where you'll be able to relax.

How refreshing - an island of common sense and reason in a sea of rumour and gossip (and, God forbid, "tea leaves").

[Krub]

I am currently on an extension of an O visa based on retirement. I have no problem qualifying for it at present but looking to the future rules changes (tea leaves again)

Another warning to potential retirees to Thailand. You can easily buy a condo in Thailand in your own name. But there is no guarantee whatsoever that will be allowed to actually LIVE in that condo over the long term. Lovely, huh?

I've lived in 4 "developing countries" over the past 33 years and in each of them there has been some sort of gossip mill predicting the end of the world in terms of conditions for expats. Some people seem to derive pleasure from propagating these rumors of doom and gloom.

They were, of course, 100% wrong, 100% of the time.

If you really feel so ill at ease about the prospects of living here, why continue to stay? This isn't Uganda under Idi Amin. There isn't going to be some wholesale deportation of expats who contribute to the economy. The people who have the greatest influence on the government's policies are the same people who profit from real estate development, tourism and retail sales. Whatever their feelings about farang, they are still pragmatic.

They have made it obvious that they want expats who meet certain financial criteria... people who have money and spend it here. People who were circumventing the spirit of the law by creating fictitious businesses in order to buy property or unqualified people who came here to teach English and live on B10,000 a month or those who otherwise took advantage of loopholes or lax enforcement, are causing a backlash. The backlash is, however, selective and I don't see any evidence (aside from the "wink,wink, gossip, gossip") that people who comply with the fairly simple requirements have anything to worry about.

But, you should be able to enjoy your retirement. If you spend all your time worrying about the future in Thailand and how you'll manage to cope, that can't be enjoyable. Find some place where you'll be able to relax.

I couldn't have said it better

[dr_Pat_Pong]

I am currently on an extension of an O visa based on retirement. I have no problem qualifying for it at present but looking to the future rules changes (tea leaves again) I was wondering whether another scenario would work. I keep reading about Brits having no problem getting multi entry O visas that can be stretched to 15 months involving 3 month border runs. Are most of you guys married to a Thai? I am not married to a Thai and never will be married to a Thai, but I do own a condo. Do you think there are friendly consulates in the US that would accept this as a reason for a one year multi entry O visa: wish to live for the upcoming year in the condo that I own in Thailand. That isn't asking for retirement, just to live for one year at a time, which strangely is exactly the same thing in effect as the extension based on retirement, save the visa runs. Would this work?

If that reason wouldn't work, is there any reason for the visa that would work that wouldn't be a lie?

Another warning to potential retirees to Thailand. You can easily buy a condo in Thailand in your own name. But there is no guarantee whatsoever that will be allowed to actually LIVE in that condo over the long term. Lovely, huh?

RTCG Houston

[Jingthing]

Another warning to potential retirees to Thailand. You can easily buy a condo in Thailand in your own name. But there is no guarantee whatsoever that will be allowed to actually LIVE in that condo over the long term. Lovely, huh?

I think this is pretty much the case anywhere but thanks for the warning.

Which country gives you the right to live long term just by owing property ? The USA maybe ?

The Philippines retirement program is a lifetime program where if you are over 50 you are required to transfer in 20,000 USD one time. You can use the money to buy a condo (although that would be a small crappy condo). So owning the property doesn't allow you to live there for life, but the retirement program does. That is a one time money transfer. There is an annual fee to stay in the program but you are set for life.

Investing in 30,000 USD in real estate in Ecuador also qualifies you to stay in Ecuador for life as long as you hold the investment. I am not yet clear if you can live in the property or must rent it out. Also the same in Brazil for 50.000 USD but that property cannot be used only to live in but it could be a rental unit.

You asked.

Edited August 16, 2007 by Jingthing

[Jingthing]

Note to Kanjai.

I chose to move to Thailand. I want to stay here and I intend to stay here as long as I can. I have no problem doing that under the current rules. If you haven't noticed, the rules change quite often and I can easily imagine a rule change causing a situation where I and many other retirees here will either want to or have to leave. I assure you I am not alone. I am not talking about Uganda, I am talking about immigration rule changes. I think your post was therapeutic for you to write and maybe you got a warm and fuzzy "I dissed him" and you got to do a "superior dance", but it doesn't speak to me one iota.

Edited August 16, 2007 by Jingthing

[Kaojai]

A few years ago there was a series of Culture Shock books out to help business people and their families cope with an overseas assignment. People tend to go through stages. Not everyone experiences these and not everyone goes through all five, but I find them surprisingly accurate for people who appear to be having problems living in "foreign" situations. Interestingly, I've also found that people who are in stages 3 and/or 4 tend to become well and truly annoyed when it is suggested that they are experiencing fairly typical adjustment problems.

The following were the best I could find in a quick search. I have read better descriptions of the stages, but there do seem to be a number of people on TV who have parked in stage 3 or stage 4, even if they refuse to believe it.

Culture Shock

Stage 1: Vacation

You just arrived. Everything is exciting, maybe even exotic and interesting. You cannot wait to tell family and friends back home about all the fun you are having and spend a lot of time writing postcards and making excited calls. You and your family make plans for trips, shopping tours, sign up for language lessons and generally hit the ground panting.

Stage 2:Denial

You are caught between the positive vacation feelings and newer negative feelings stemming from having to face the reality of living here for many years. You are still excited but somehow the feelings are more forced. For many, the initial reaction is to deny the negative feelings, or starting to feel that you must be doing something wrong because of course you should be excited.

Stage 3: Anger

Attempts to deny have failed. Now the negative feelings come flying out in ugly chunks. You begin to dwell on the negative aspects of life in the host country. You feel unsure, anxious about the future. You feel like you don’t deserve this; your experience abroad should be a daily diet of PBS-like discovery.

This stage is often triggered by some bad-day like event that instead of being seen as one of those things, you instead blame on the host country. Trains can run late anywhere in the world, but if you find yourself saying “Those darn [iNSERT DEROGATORY TERM FOR HOST COUNTRY PEOPLE] can’t even get a train to run on time” you are thick into this stage.

Stage 4: Escape

Anger gets replaced by thoughts of bailing out. You start looking into cutting your time overseas short, or maybe taking extended trips back home. You start to withdraw from the culture around you, and to isolate yourself and your children from the newness.

Not that anytime you perceive something in the host country as “bad” you are wrong, or that coming to the conclusion that something is indeed better at home is wrong. Coming to some understanding that the world is a busy, interesting place, full of good and bad is one great reason to travel. Reaching those conclusions via a process of discovery and testing is brilliant, rare and valuable. Transferring very natural feelings of dislocation and homesickness into slap dash conclusions is less so.

Stage 5: Depression

The last stage can come when you realize you can’t escape the situation, that you are caught between a big rock and a hard, hard place. During this stage, one usually experiences the more severe physical and emotional effects of culture shock. You feel drained. You may become irritable over little things; occasionally you may cry without much of a reason. Leaving the house is difficult. You start actively refusing to take your language lessons instead of just skipping class. Your attitude is different.

[Jingthing]

Thank you, Dr. P for addressing the subject of the thread. Perhaps Mr. K cares to start another thread about his pop psychological theories.

Edited August 16, 2007 by Jingthing

[mahjongguy]

Do you think there are friendly consulates in the US ...

It looks like the Honorary Consuls (e.g. Denver) have been read the riot act and are no longer generously handing out the pack of four 90-day visas.

[Jingthing]

Do you think there are friendly consulates in the US ...

It looks like the Honorary Consuls (e.g. Denver) have been read the riot act and are no longer generously handing out the pack of four 90-day visas.

Not surprising. I suppose any "good thing" out there is subject to "crackdowns" at any time.

[Kaojai]

Note to Kanjai.(sic)

I can easily imagine a rule change causing a situation where I and many other retirees here will either want to or have to leave.

No material changes.

Imagination is a wonderful thing. It's why people enjoy scary movies or roller coaster rides.

I assure you I am not alone.

Neither am I. We're just less frantic.

I think your post was therapeutic for you to write and maybe you got a warm and fuzzy "I dissed him" and you got to do a "superior dance", but it doesn't speak to me one iota.

Not me that's in need of therapy. I'm content with the situation, but sorry to see that you are creating an unrealistic, negative impression on people who are considering retiring in Thailand. As long as you feel free to post the negative view, I'll feel free to post a positive counter interpretation.

As I said, people in stage 3 or 4, get well and truly annoyed when they realize their denial & anger are typical in people who have difficulty in adjusting to a different culture.

Good luck in the Philippines, Ecuador or Chad. Wherever it is you can find peace for the remainder of your life for $20,000 to $30,000. will be a bargain I'm sure.

[Jingthing]

Three points for (sic) Kanjai who clearly just wants a mud throwing session:

1. There have already been material changes in the retirement visa requirements in the last few years:

A. Increase in required funds

B. The three month money seasoning rule

C. Certification of pension letter (recent) and more minor

D. Soon to come: ???? We don't know now, do we, but you would have to be a fool not to consider more changes possible

It would be interesting karma if a sudden change impacted on you.

2. I have no qualms at all about warning people off buying real estate in Thailand. I own real estate here. This is against my best interest to suggest people not buy here because I may have to sell here. But what good is owning real estate if there are so many uncertainties in being able to live in what you bought? As far as retirement visa programs go, Thailands is objectively inferior to Malaysia and the Philippines for one reason. The one year window on it. Older retired people don't like that, and this is nothing new. I think prospective retirees should seriously consider if they can handle some sudden change happening 10 years down the line that would mean getting kicked out of their new home back to their old country where they no longer have ties. A program that offers more stability than one year is quite obviously more desirable. I know the massively wealthy, and of course this is about money, figure they can adjust to any change that will happen in their lifetimes. Mere mortals can't have such confidence.

3. I personally prefer Thailand. That is the only good reason to move here, retire here, is because you really want to be here. //edit to remove personal attack//

Mr K, I actually suspect you might have big commercial interests in more retirees coming here and foolishly throwing their life savings at Thailand. If not, why does a little truth telling gall you so?

Edited August 17, 2007 by lopburi3
remove personal attack - lopburi3

[Jingthing]

Good luck in the Philippines, Ecuador or Chad. Wherever it is you can find peace for the remainder of your life for $20,000 to $30,000. will be a bargain I'm sure.

OK! I will respond to this gem from Kanjai (sic) in a vanilla way.

I have no intention to move to the Philippines or Ecuador personally at present, but they are valid retirement choices for many and both countries continue to attract thousands of happy retired expats. I think the best reason to pick a nation for retirement is to find one you like, and then consider the visa and cost factors. I was merely pointing out before that the Philippines and Ecuador do offer better visa programs for retirees than Thailand, and that is one of the important factors to consider. It is very nice to apply ONLY ONCE and prove to the foreign government ONCE that you have brought in some money, and not every 12 months like Thailand, where the rules can change on you at any time. That is NOT the same thing as saying you can afford to move anywhere in the world to retire if all you have in the world is 20-30K USD. Thats absurd and Kanjai knows it. It was a cheap shot and it deserved this response.

I can't speak to Chad. Is it nice?

Edited August 17, 2007 by Jingthing

[jackspratt]

Jing do you think it is time to put the soapbox away?

I'm sure most of us understand that you are not happy with certain aspects of the visa regulations and practices as they have evolved over the past couple of years.

Equally, others of us see no life-threatening issues, and just get on with things.

The record is stuck - please lift the tone arm and place gently in the cradle for a while

[Jingthing]

Fair enough. Good point. But frankly I will probably ignore it. Just the way I am, if you don't like it, don't read it, OK?

I was actually hoping to help some people not make the same mistake I made. (Buying real estate here which is riskier than I first realized before actually living here.) Many long term expats have come to the same conclusion: RENT! I heard them before and poo poohed them; now I realize they were right.

I have noticed there is another group of expats who realize they made a big mistake, and deny it, and encourage others to make exactly the same mistake. I wonder how our resident pop psychologists would explain the motivation for that behavior?

If most of us took the advise of the sage old expats (don't bring to Thailand what you can't afford to leave in Thailand) and really boycotted the snake oil real estate salesmen, how long do you think it would take for both the visa and real estate ownership laws to loosen up a bit? By buying en masse into such a bad deal unstable environment, we really do only have ourselves to blame. They offer a bad deal and we take it. No wonder many Thai people think we are fools with too much money who deserve to be relieved of the burden. You don't think there are big money Thai interests in farang oriented real estate?

Edited August 17, 2007 by Jingthing

[Krub]

Fair enough. Good point. But frankly I will probably ignore it. Just the way I am, if you don't like it, don't read it, OK?

I was actually hoping to help some people not make the same mistake I made. (Buying real estate here which is riskier than I first realized before actually living here.) Many long term expats have come to the same conclusion: RENT! I heard them before and poo poohed them; now I realize they were right.

I have noticed there is another group of expats who realize they made a big mistake, and deny it, and encourage others to make exactly the same mistake. I wonder how our resident pop psychologists would explain the motivation for that behavior?

If most of us took the advise of the sage old expats (don't bring to Thailand what you can't afford to leave in Thailand) and really boycotted the snake oil real estate salesmen, how long do you think it would take for both the visa and real estate ownership laws to loosen up a bit? By buying en masse into such a bad deal unstable environment, we really do only have ourselves to blame. They offer a bad deal and we take it. No wonder many Thai people think we are fools with too much money who deserve to be relieved of the burden. You don't think there are big money Thai interests in farang oriented real estate?

Stating the facts is enough for adults to make-up their minds and choices in life and thanks to many posters including you we manage to get great timely information on this forum.

What is tiring is having to read post after post repeats of what's next, etc.

Nobody knows what's next but we know form experience and looking at longer term than a few weeks, months or years that yes rules do change but they are not drastic nor are they 180 degrees turns (amount has been increased once or twice but grand fathered for example).

Show some income or money in the bank and you get a year's visa, pretty easy in my opinion.

If you regret having made an investment in a condo in Thailand, don't blamethe Thai government for it. You should have done your homework before deciding to buy.

Relax and enjoy your retirement

[Jingthing]

Duh.

I did blame myself! Did you read my post?

By buying en masse into such a bad deal unstable environment, we really do only have ourselves to blame.

I agree its fairly easy to get a one year retirement extension, never said differently. It is just very insecure year after year, and as people get older, they crave more and more security, not less. And, broken record warning, other countries are actually competing for us and offering that security that older people want.

Edited August 17, 2007 by Jingthing

[No beleeeeve!]

Yeah, I love it when someone's only response to the difficulty of others is "if you don't like it, leave.' Just about every thread here will have at least one genius who posts this. A discussion forum, by definition, is for DISCUSSING issues, both positive and negative, and sometimes even looking for solutions.

So, if someone writes for help, and in the process vents too, maybe, just maybe, if you don't have a possible solution, think real hard for a while. Then maybe you can contribute something that helps. I think people know that leaving the country is an option, don't you?

"Oh, really, you mean I can actually leave?" As if they didn't know this already Captain Obvious. "Why yes, you didn't know you can leave the country?"

"No, I didn't even know this!"

Sometimes people vent and don't want answers.

Sometimes they ask for answers.

Sometimes they do both.

[summers]

Another warning to potential retirees to Thailand. You can easily buy a condo in Thailand in your own name. But there is no guarantee whatsoever that will be allowed to actually LIVE in that condo over the long term. Lovely, huh?

I think this is pretty much the case anywhere but thanks for the warning.

Which country gives you the right to live long term just by owing property ? The USA maybe ?

Only! and that is true this week only.

[tracer5050]

I have been coming to Los for 3 years but only staying 30 to 60 days at a time. some time one visa the back to the US. As i still have bussiness i need to take care of. I do have one question i do plan to retire there maybe in a year.

I am 60 and want to know if i transfere money to meet the money trsansfere what ever the amount is at the time ? Do i have to transfere every year or have that amount each year when it time to renew the retirement Visa,

Alos is the education visa for on year a good way to go . if so or not what is the pros ans the cons?

[Jingthing]

Another warning to potential retirees to Thailand. You can easily buy a condo in Thailand in your own name. But there is no guarantee whatsoever that will be allowed to actually LIVE in that condo over the long term. Lovely, huh?

I think this is pretty much the case anywhere but thanks for the warning.

Which country gives you the right to live long term just by owing property ? The USA maybe ?

Only! and that is true this week only.

Oh Jeez! How many times do I have to answer this question?

Mexico gives special priveledges to retirees who buy their primary residence by cutting the required income needed in half. Mexico is the most popular retirement choice for USA expat retirees, so this is not trivial!

Brazil offers a residence visa based on real estate investment.

Ecuador offers a residence visa based on real estate investment.

The Philippines lifetime retirement visa program requires a ONE TIME deposit (not very large) where you can use that money to buy a condo or start a company to buy land and build a house, if you wish.

Malaysia's retirement visa deposit for the 5 or 10 year at a time visa program can be used to buy real estate.

Thailand is behind the curve on this, do not deny it.

Edited August 19, 2007 by Jingthing

[Jingthing]

I have been coming to Los for 3 years but only staying 30 to 60 days at a time. some time one visa the back to the US. As i still have bussiness i need to take care of. I do have one question i do plan to retire there maybe in a year.

I am 60 and want to know if i transfere money to meet the money trsansfere what ever the amount is at the time ? Do i have to transfere every year or have that amount each year when it time to renew the retirement Visa,

Alos is the education visa for on year a good way to go . if so or not what is the pros ans the cons?

If I get your question, if you are using the bank account method, you merely need to show the required money annually at application time (seasoned for three months). If using a pension, you do not need to actually transfer in the pension, just prove it.

[jackspratt]

Oh Jeez! How many times do I have to answer this question?

The point is, Jing, you don't have to answer it. But if you keep choosing to do so, up to you!

[warriors]

I have been coming to Los for 3 years but only staying 30 to 60 days at a time. some time one visa the back to the US. As i still have bussiness i need to take care of. I do have one question i do plan to retire there maybe in a year.

I am 60 and want to know if i transfere money to meet the money trsansfere what ever the amount is at the time ? Do i have to transfere every year or have that amount each year when it time to renew the retirement Visa,

I have just completed my 3rd yearly retirement visa this week. In Bangkok Imm. ( 15th August)

So the info you want is. Yes you DO need to show 800,000 bhat has been transfered EVERY year from over seas at least 3 months before your retirement anniversary date. Even if you have 5,000,000 bhat allready in your Thai Bank. They want new money.

Oh and they now want a STATEMENT ( extra bit of paper work) from some Thai person to say you live in the permanant address in Thailand that you have supplied to the Imm Dept. They do not hand this form out before you get to see the officer it is handed to you when you are with the officer. So it seems that you now need to go with a Thai person either (Wife, G.F, Lover, or a Visa Consultant or get the guy off the street who is job is to clean it ) What ever your word now is not good enough. God help you after sitting there for 3 hours with your little bit of paper with your number on it to get so far and have all your other papers, such as to show your money, medical papers and now fall at the last fence.

Oh and now they want you to be able to Draw a Map of where you live, there and then, so better draw one before you arrive or you have to leave her ( the officers ) table to do it.

Good luck to you. I look forward to next years pot luck retirement application.

[astral]

Do you think there are friendly consulates in the US ...

It looks like the Honorary Consuls (e.g. Denver) have been read the riot act and are no longer generously handing out the pack of four 90-day visas.

This is the problem with your idea.

They may clamp down on the Multi-entry visas, then you are screwed.

[Lancelot]

Jing, I can understand your concerns (own a condo but can't be assured of a visa to live in it.)

Sure some of the Visa changes can leave us scratching our heads but I doubt that the powers to be will ever truly slam the door on farangs living here long term. Im my (subjective) opinon, there is too much money at stake and the Thais will not allow that income stream to slip away.

Good luck