Farang Wants To Buy Property On Koh Samui

[charmed]

we want to buy property on Koh Samui we have seen a few places which we like and are flying out nect month to view.

Can we buy these properties - i dont want to get ripped off by an estate agent - and im getting conflicting reports on how legal this is - i believe we buy lease hold for 30 years and then sell or renew.

I note that there seems to be a property price drop in Thailand - is this affectinf Koh Samui - can we put offers in lower than the asking price?

our intention is to buy as a holiday home with view to rent out to holiday makers - were not fussed about making a fortune - we just want to buy somewhere!

can anyone help - i have been doing reaserch but would really like some people opinions

many thanks

[lannarebirth]

You may find this website helpful to you in answering some of your question:

http://www.samuiforsale.com/

[dsfbrit]

You have done the right thing coming to this website. You will find out the truth here.

My advice to you is dont take at face value anything an estate agent nor lawyer tells you. Come to this website with anything these people tell you and ask if it is correct BEFORE you sign anything. Lots of people here will help you.

To start with you cannot own land out here it is simply illegal, but you can own the house that sits on it. You can lease the land with the Land Registry Office for a maximum of 30 years. You may be told you can do a 30+30+30 year lease. We recently discussed this less than safe option here:

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=131932

The safest option as everyone will tell you here - is to buy a condo IN YOUR OWN NAME - not in a company name.

Do not buy anything in a company name.

Good Luck

Edited August 16, 2007 by dsfbrit

[1Rai.com]

1. Get many opinions - I think you'll find different lawyers telling you different things.

2. Do question what a lawyer or estate agent will tell you and, if you have found someone who knows what they're on about, put these questions to them.

3. Looking for property on Samui? Try www.1rai.com - we currently have 1,244 Koh Samui home and land listings listed by many agents, you won't find that anywhere else.

4. IF you buy privately, remember that rules are very different in different countries. I would recommend using a reputable agent (there are plenty) and a reputable lawyer to make sure everything is in order. They may charge you a fee, but you're buying piece of mind from professional people who have overseen this process many many times.

If you are planning on using the 30-year leasehold option, you have no worries about being legal or not. Again, sort it out using someone who knows.

[lazeeboy]

we want to buy property on Koh Samui we have seen a few places which we like and are flying out nect month to view.

Can we buy these properties - i dont want to get ripped off by an estate agent - and im getting conflicting reports on how legal this is - i believe we buy lease hold for 30 years and then sell or renew.

I note that there seems to be a property price drop in Thailand - is this affectinf Koh Samui - can we put offers in lower than the asking price?

our intention is to buy as a holiday home with view to rent out to holiday makers - were not fussed about making a fortune - we just want to buy somewhere!

can anyone help - i have been doing reaserch but would really like some people opinions

many thanks

all prices are negotiable ,put in a low bid ,dont just knock off a few 1000b ,not off 100s of thousands and see what rhey come back with ,good luck........

[RAZZELL]

all prices are negotiable ,put in a low bid ,dont just knock off a few 1000b ,not off 100s of thousands and see what rhey come back with ,good luck........

It's a buyers market...Some houses have been "for sale" with "living in dreamworld" prices for years...

But like anywhere...Something good AND cheap will sell fast...

Good luck in your search. Keep posting.

RAZZ

[taxin]

You have done the right thing coming to this website. You will find out the truth here.

My advice to you is dont take at face value anything an estate agent nor lawyer tells you. Come to this website with anything these people tell you and ask if it is correct BEFORE you sign anything. Lots of people here will help you.

To start with you cannot own land out here it is simply illegal, but you can own the house that sits on it. You can lease the land with the Land Registry Office for a maximum of 30 years. You may be told you can do a 30+30+30 year lease. We recently discussed this less than safe option here:

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=131932

The safest option as everyone will tell you here - is to buy a condo IN YOUR OWN NAME - not in a company name.

Do not buy anything in a company name.

Good Luck

I 2nd to that, buy a freehold condo and put it in your own name. Problem is Samui has a pretty non-existent condominium market. Better to buy in Phuket, more choice, better rental return & a much safer place to do business.

[Ungabunga]

I met with an agent last time there called Kalhara, with an office in the north (Bophut?) they were excellent in helping us, always pointing out the bad things as well as the good - which was a refreshing change, including ownership situation. Although we didn't buy anything at the time I will call on them if I go back (or more appropriately when I have more money!).

[Mid]

can buy everything ,

can own ........................................

[charmed]

thank you all for your comments on this! I will be back with questions i am sure! We have a lot to consider and have to make sure that we dont get ripped off! Luckily i work for a law firm so i have access to advice except its not thai advice!

one question how do you tell a decent lawyer from another one!

many thanks

[dreamtime]

"Do not buy anything in a company name."

Can someone point me to the discussion thread that talks about why not to buy in a thai company name? Thanks.

S

[Khun Jean]

I think it is more easy to point you to threads that discuss why it is a good thing to buy in a company name.

Problem is those threads are more than 1.5-2 years old and a lot has changed.

It is just one word and a number that says it all.

The word is "Nominee".

the number is 49.

[Naam]

i believe we buy lease hold for 30 years and then sell or renew.

who might want to buy a property when the lease has expired?

[torrenova]

Who would buy something you cannot own ?

All work arounds on this are exactly that, work arounds. What will you do when the government comes asking the 51% nominee shareholders of your 30,000,000 baht company (house) where they got their 15,810,000 baht (51%) from and have they paid tax on it ?

Multiple share classes are up in the air as well because of enforcement of laws either previously relaxed or ignored.

Would you buy a house in a western country with no stable democratically elected government and no rule of law you could use to defend your position and go after those who cheat you, where they tell you up front that you cannot, cannot, categorically own the land ? Of course not, so why do it in a 3rd world bubble economy (Samui, Thailand in gereral actually) where you know from the start that you are pushing water uphill if you have problems ?

Buying a small bungalow which is a cheaper option than long term rent is one thing. Samui and potty prices (together with very specific build regulations - often flouted) there are another.

[johnnyk]

Much of the land ownership debate (debate: no law has been enacted yet) in government circles stems from Samui shenanigans: fraud, money laundering, illegal encroachment, false titles, bribery, cowboy developers, con men on the lam... you name it. Caveat emptor, especially on Samui.

[Riley'sLife]

Charmed, please don't take this the wrong way, but, from what you ask and from what you state you seem ripe for being well and truly ripped off. There is only one safe route for you to take. Buy a condo in your own name. Don't even consider anything else because everything else is just an artificial legalistic side-step of the Thai law and will end in loss of money and tears. Even condo purchase here can be frought with dangers. Why bother???? A 30year lease? what's the point? can you really imagine that this would give you any "saleable"interest in the property. Many wouldn't even consider "buying" a 30year interest in property in a civilised country. What would your leasehold interest be worth after 10years in Thailand? Who would buy from you?

Best advice is keep your money where it's safe, at home. Rent here and let the mugs take the risk of "owning" their Thai house. There are many vested interests in Thailand relating to property, not the least of which are lawyers and real estate agents. I can hear them salivating from here in anticipation of your arrival!!

[tomkptom]

Don`t buy with a company.

If you like to stay sometimes, so better you rent a house.

Troublefree, when you pay month by month.

If you like to make a longtime deal, you can lease the land legal for 30 years

and you can be also legal the owner of the house you try to build on.

So you need a thai national who buy for you the land.

If you have some very good thaifriends, its more easy.

To save your investment:

1. Dont buy Land with Tor Bor 5 or Sor Gor 1 or Nor Sor 3 (Black Garuna) Papers.

2. Make two contracts.

First you borrow the money to your good thaifriend with a notary contract for 30 years with a annual interest rate. Likewise it is specified that for security an entry over the borrowed sum in the property paper one specifies. That is legal.

Second your good friend buy the land and you lease the land for 30 years officially.

You must pay then a rent a little over the interest payments of your friend

That is realativ safe.

Your Friend cannot sell or rent out the land to others for 30 years period without agreement. Still different details are to be regulated, as what happened with death of a contracting party, which permits the Thai postponement right happened with the house after 30 years etc. Here however the thai law is very flexibel.

By the way if you like the Gulf of Siam:

Koh Samui Land prices a crazy high now.

Better: Koh Phangan

Sorry for my disaster english.

Have a good time.

[LivinLOS]

Forgive for being so negative, but..

Why on earth would you want to buy (that you cant own) in a 3rd world country, if your not going to live in it ?!?! This isnt the west, so much can go wrong and the risks are so much higher, then treble that for absentee landlords.

I rent a villa.. The place is valued (was taken off the market) at 25 mil.. I pay <3% per annum on the rental and the landlord has to maintain it, thanks to awful thai build quality that adds up to 10,000's perhaps even 100,000 per year, theres constantly teams of guys fixing, repainting, gardening, working on the pool , etc.. While I keep my money out of Thailand and have made around 30% return on it this year.

The only good reason to want to own is if you really consider the place your going to buy a long term buy and hold home. And even then its fraught with problems. Get your head out of the 'property ladder' mentality of the west.

[dreamtime]

"Best advice is keep your money where it's safe, at home."

Well, I wonder where "safe" is anymore with money. A quick check on the UK news channel shows runs at multiple banks where people are lining up to get their money. I don't think that is too safe either. And the problem wasn't even in the UK. It was the mortgage business in the USA.

You could think that the USD is safe. Well, its depreciated over 85% since 1980 and still going down to its intrinsic value which is $0.

That's not safe either.

Its for another discussion forum where it's really safe to keep your money and real estate.

As for buying in a 3rd world country there are many pluses as far as I'm concerned. You don't have building codes or zoning regulations here. You can build what you want, where you want, how you want and no one will come and slap you with a cease and desist order or fine you thousands of dollars. For someone into alternative building this is as good as it gets. Building here with normal construction must be a nightmare. As stated many times in these forums, the skilled labor in building is far from being skilled.

S

Edited October 8, 2007 by dreamtime

[JimsKnight]

I often wonder why TV even has a property section, a condo investment section and a house/land investment warning on it is all that is needed.

Sections like this just encourage castles in the sky and dodgy con men to try and get in on the action.

[donx]

I often wonder why TV even has a property section, a condo investment section and a house/land investment warning on it is all that is needed.

Sections like this just encourage castles in the sky and dodgy con men to try and get in on the action.

I am glad you are not running this website. Don't forget that there are several of us here with Thai spouses and Thai offspring interested and in need of good information about real estate in Thailand.

I agree that those without trustworthy Thai partners should definitely be wary.

[dreamtime]

I talk to my Thai friends and they buy real estate directly from other village people in a person to person transaction. There is no paper on anything except the paper they make up for the sale. I never hear about anything going wrong with these transactions. If someone is not going to create a hotel or something that costs a lot of money, I don't see what's wrong with this process if you are not looking to flip and just want to build something for yourself that you will hold onto for a long time.

Its not like one of these parties is going to come back and sue you. They most likely don't have additional cash for this kind of thing.

S

Edited October 9, 2007 by dreamtime

[David1962]

Who would buy something you cannot own ?

All work arounds on this are exactly that, work arounds. What will you do when the government comes asking the 51% nominee shareholders of your 30,000,000 baht company (house) where they got their 15,810,000 baht (51%) from and have they paid tax on it ?

Multiple share classes are up in the air as well because of enforcement of laws either previously relaxed or ignored.

Would you buy a house in a western country with no stable democratically elected government and no rule of law you could use to defend your position and go after those who cheat you, where they tell you up front that you cannot, cannot, categorically own the land ? Of course not, so why do it in a 3rd world bubble economy (Samui, Thailand in gereral actually) where you know from the start that you are pushing water uphill if you have problems ?

Buying a small bungalow which is a cheaper option than long term rent is one thing. Samui and potty prices (together with very specific build regulations - often flouted) there are another.

Great post! Thailand is not a sound investment and potentially you will loose out on your investment in the end. It is a gamble. Similar to stocks and shares. (But, the likelihood of loosing will be significantly higher by investing in property in Thailand than it would in the stock market.) Stocks and shares can go up or down. From looking at the property market in Thailand; all I can see is down!

If you can't own the land, what would stop a large Thai company stating they'd bought the land and was turning it into a new Lotus supermarket etc, etc?

[dreamtime]

Who would buy something you cannot own ?

All work arounds on this are exactly that, work arounds. What will you do when the government comes asking the 51% nominee shareholders of your 30,000,000 baht company (house) where they got their 15,810,000 baht (51%) from and have they paid tax on it ?

Multiple share classes are up in the air as well because of enforcement of laws either previously relaxed or ignored.

Would you buy a house in a western country with no stable democratically elected government and no rule of law you could use to defend your position and go after those who cheat you, where they tell you up front that you cannot, cannot, categorically own the land ? Of course not, so why do it in a 3rd world bubble economy (Samui, Thailand in gereral actually) where you know from the start that you are pushing water uphill if you have problems ?

Buying a small bungalow which is a cheaper option than long term rent is one thing. Samui and potty prices (together with very specific build regulations - often flouted) there are another.

Great post! Thailand is not a sound investment and potentially you will loose out on your investment in the end. It is a gamble. Similar to stocks and shares. (But, the likelihood of loosing will be significantly higher by investing in property in Thailand than it would in the stock market.) Stocks and shares can go up or down. From looking at the property market in Thailand; all I can see is down!

I think for years the real estate has been going up. Why is it that you can only see down? Or maybe you are anticipating it going down?

S

[donx]

I talk to my Thai friends and they buy real estate directly from other village people in a person to person transaction. There is no paper on anything except the paper they make up for the sale. I never hear about anything going wrong with these transactions. If someone is not going to create a hotel or something that costs a lot of money, I don't see what's wrong with this process if you are not looking to flip and just want to build something for yourself that you will hold onto for a long time.

Its not like one of these parties is going to come back and sue you. They most likely don't have additional cash for this kind of thing.

S

dreamtime,

If you are Thai then, yes, this is a viable option. My wife has done this type of transaction with great success. The land was for agricultural use. If you are not Thai then such a transaction is illegal since a foreigner is not allowed to own land. You could find yourself inside a Thai prison on top of losing all claim to the land purchase.

[David1962]

"Best advice is keep your money where it's safe, at home."

Well, I wonder where "safe" is anymore with money. A quick check on the UK news channel shows runs at multiple banks where people are lining up to get their money. I don't think that is too safe either. And the problem wasn't even in the UK. It was the mortgage business in the USA.

You could think that the USD is safe. Well, its depreciated over 85% since 1980 and still going down to its intrinsic value which is $0.

That's not safe either.

That's correct. It was Northern Rock, however, they were backed by the Bank of England 100%, so I don't know what all the panic was about! A company that size would not go bust. The worst that could happen is it got bought out. Even then, customers' are still insured on the first -I think- £20,000. After that, it is 90% their capital. Half these customers didn't even have the basic amount, and they still fled to another provider.

The USA is currently offering 'bad' loans' at the moment, hence the withdrawal of funds. Some 'advisors', are advising their clients to state they earn more than they actually do. Bad advice for a start! They only thing that happens is they default on their mortgage payments and eventually loose their house.

Arguably, the UK and USA, along with other Western countries, are still safer than developing countries - such as Thailand. Invest what you can afford to loose.

[LivinLOS]

"Best advice is keep your money where it's safe, at home."

Well, I wonder where "safe" is anymore with money. A quick check on the UK news channel shows runs at multiple banks where people are lining up to get their money. I don't think that is too safe either. And the problem wasn't even in the UK. It was the mortgage business in the USA.

You could think that the USD is safe. Well, its depreciated over 85% since 1980 and still going down to its intrinsic value which is $0.

That's not safe either.

Its for another discussion forum where it's really safe to keep your money and real estate.

Gold has been money for millenia.. Made out like a bandit for the last 4 or 5 years..

As for buying in a 3rd world country there are many pluses as far as I'm concerned. You don't have building codes or zoning regulations here. You can build what you want, where you want, how you want and no one will come and slap you with a cease and desist order or fine you thousands of dollars.

Not true.. Lots of rules exist.. (nothing over 80m from sealevel here) Height / floor restrictions, concrete pillars, etc etc etc I wont bother to list them all.. Secondly these get applied without equality so Thais can build what they want and farangs are penalized to follow the rules of pay larger T money payments to the tesabaan..

Also if you think no zoning is great.. Wait till somone builds a pig farm next door to your villa, or a thai kareoke opens in a residential area.. Or or or..

[LivinLOS]

I talk to my Thai friends and they buy real estate directly from other village people in a person to person transaction. There is no paper on anything except the paper they make up for the sale. I never hear about anything going wrong with these transactions. If someone is not going to create a hotel or something that costs a lot of money, I don't see what's wrong with this process if you are not looking to flip and just want to build something for yourself that you will hold onto for a long time.

Its not like one of these parties is going to come back and sue you. They most likely don't have additional cash for this kind of thing.

S

Yeah that works until someone lays claim to the land and orders you off..

Heard a similar story recently about how his thai mother in law was being turfed off what they thought was thier land by the local 'powers of influence'.. No one will help, no police will get involved, and the Thai attitude of mai pen rai and fatalism was 'well we are just the little people, what can you do'..

Do you really want to buy something and have zero proof of ownership ?? No wonder so many people get burnt.

[quiksilva]

I talk to my Thai friends and they buy real estate directly from other village people in a person to person transaction. There is no paper on anything except the paper they make up for the sale. I never hear about anything going wrong with these transactions. If someone is not going to create a hotel or something that costs a lot of money, I don't see what's wrong with this process if you are not looking to flip and just want to build something for yourself that you will hold onto for a long time.

Its not like one of these parties is going to come back and sue you. They most likely don't have additional cash for this kind of thing.

S

Geez, what is it with some people? That's not the point!

YOU can NOT buy land. The difference between you and your Thai friends is that THEY are THAI.

Listen to the advice that has been generously provided in the posts above and save yourself a whole lot of money and heartache.

Alternatively just go ahead do what you really want to do. But please be sure to come back here and let us know how you got on, we could use a case study of what not to do.

[dreamtime]

As for buying in a 3rd world country there are many pluses as far as I'm concerned. You don't have building codes or zoning regulations here. You can build what you want, where you want, how you want and no one will come and slap you with a cease and desist order or fine you thousands of dollars.

Not true.. Lots of rules exist.. (nothing over 80m from sealevel here) Height / floor restrictions, concrete pillars, etc etc etc I wont bother to list them all.. Secondly these get applied without equality so Thais can build what they want and farangs are penalized to follow the rules of pay larger T money payments to the tesabaan..

Also if you think no zoning is great.. Wait till somone builds a pig farm next door to your villa, or a thai kareoke opens in a residential area.. Or or or..

I wasn't thinking about the zoning issue as it pertains to property in Phuket, Samui, or other developed areas. I guess it can be an issue like you said.

My interest is in areas where there are no people or neighbors next to you. In this case its doubtful someone will be building right next store.