Global Correction

[VegasVic]

Relax Cclub, I am watching the debate as I post here (the first hour just finished) and McCain is kicking but, Obama sems to be rattled more often than not. Its actually kind of surprising because I though this kind of format would benefit Obama greatly. Anyway the second half has started so I must go and get my popcorn!!!

I watched it too & thought just the opposite.

McCain never once even looked at Obama very odd?

Also the way he would take part of a statement & try to twist it into something else reminded me why his burned out style of politics would only be more of the same that got us where we are today.

Today I see the results of polls agree with what I saw.

Poll of Debate

I am neither a Democrat nor a Republican per se' but that is how I saw it.

flying, When I made my post last night the debate was only half over.! McCain had Obama on the ropes for the first hour, Obama who is rarely at a loss for words was actually stammering on three occasions during the first half of the debate. Obama composed himself for the last half of the debate and preformed much much better! As far as the polls go, I have seen polls out this morning that say McCain won and other polls that say Obama won, so you can pick and choose the way you want to spin this. I too have no strong attatchment to either candidate, and actually think that Obama is very bright and articulate and makes a good presence in person, but I will be voting for McCain because there is no way in hel_l I can give Harry Ried or Nancy Pelosi a blank checkbook. Having both houses of congress controlled by Democrats and a Democrat in the White House would put the final nail in the economic coffin for the U.S. , if this does occur then perhaps Bingos dire predictions may come true Obama does have one major hurdle that even his handlers will agree about, and that is his race and his fathers muslim heritage. Its sad that in modern day America that this would play a pivotle role in peoples decision making but it is a fact. When you look at Mayor Bradleys run for Governor of CA, he was 5% points in the lead on election day and yet lost by quite a margin. This happened to Doug Wilder and many other black candidates as well when they aspire to offices higher than mayor or congressman. Its not right but it is a fact of life The way one Obama aid put it recently is that "Senator Obama will have to have a clear 7% point lead on election day if we will have a chance too win".

[flying]

Thanks for the link flying !

Did you realize one can watch the entire debate ? It says: Watch the entire debate, Part 1, Part 2 and Part 3.

Just tried Part 1 and it works (but I have ADSL)...

LaoPo

Mai Pen Rai

Yes I saw that pretty nice of them.

I found it pretty interesting. It was not as combative as I thought it may have been. They stayed pretty much on track. I must say though that McCain's body language just struck me as so odd.

I would not say condensending but did he give an impression that Obama should not even be there? Odd & when I saw that I wondered how he would appear to other world leaders when meeting with them. I have not yet read about the president of Spain incident Obama mentioned but will go look now.

[flying]

flying, When I made my post last night the debate was only half over.! McCain had Obama on the ropes for the first hour, Obama who is rarely at a loss for words was actually stammering on three occasions during the first half of the debate. Obama composed himself for the last half of the debate and preformed much much better! As far as the polls go, I have seen polls out this morning that say McCain won and other polls that say Obama won, so you can pick and choose the way you want to spin this. I too have no strong attatchment to either candidate, and actually think that Obama is very bright and articulate and makes a good presence in person, but I will be voting for McCain because there is no way in hel_l I can give Harry Ried or Nancy Pelosi a blank checkbook. Having both houses of congress controlled by Democrats and a Democrat in the White House would put the final nail in the economic coffin for the U.S. , if this does occur then perhaps Bingos dire predictions may come true Obama does have one major hurdle that even his handlers will agree about, and that is his race and his fathers muslim heritage. Its sad that in modern day America that this would play a pivotle role in peoples decision making but it is a fact. When you look at Mayor Bradleys run for Governor of CA, he was 5% points in the lead on election day and yet lost by quite a margin. This happened to Doug Wilder and many other black candidates as well when they aspire to offices higher than mayor or congressman. Its not right but it is a fact of life The way one Obama aid put it recently is that "Senator Obama will have to have a clear 7% point lead on election day if we will have a chance too win".

Thanks & yes I know polls can be an iffy gauge. As for your reasoning to vote that is your perogative. I am not astute politically but have noted historically our financial problems have been on the heels of presidents of republican persuasion

I wish we could just get rid of the political parties. It really serves no good purpose in my mind. It harkens continually back to a civil war type mentality.

Where the USA is divided in two.

Lets just pick the best Human for the job. The one that represents us the best to the world. The one that can get along the best with other world leaders. The one who hopefully has truthful advisors in areas that he alone is not qualified to decide.

One of the things that Obama talked about that I really liked was how Amrica's image is so tarnished these days & needs a hand. ( my interpretation ) I couldn't agree more with that.

Those points that McCain harped on about how important it was to pre qualify if you will folks he as president would sit down with vs Obama's I will sit with no pre condition style was a much fresher style & one I felt I prefered. I know it was getting twisted but I got the message as intended.

Anyway..............

As Americans I think we both just hope for better times yes?

[VegasVic]

flying, When I made my post last night the debate was only half over.! McCain had Obama on the ropes for the first hour, Obama who is rarely at a loss for words was actually stammering on three occasions during the first half of the debate. Obama composed himself for the last half of the debate and preformed much much better! As far as the polls go, I have seen polls out this morning that say McCain won and other polls that say Obama won, so you can pick and choose the way you want to spin this. I too have no strong attatchment to either candidate, and actually think that Obama is very bright and articulate and makes a good presence in person, but I will be voting for McCain because there is no way in hel_l I can give Harry Ried or Nancy Pelosi a blank checkbook. Having both houses of congress controlled by Democrats and a Democrat in the White House would put the final nail in the economic coffin for the U.S. , if this does occur then perhaps Bingos dire predictions may come true Obama does have one major hurdle that even his handlers will agree about, and that is his race and his fathers muslim heritage. Its sad that in modern day America that this would play a pivotle role in peoples decision making but it is a fact. When you look at Mayor Bradleys run for Governor of CA, he was 5% points in the lead on election day and yet lost by quite a margin. This happened to Doug Wilder and many other black candidates as well when they aspire to offices higher than mayor or congressman. Its not right but it is a fact of life The way one Obama aid put it recently is that "Senator Obama will have to have a clear 7% point lead on election day if we will have a chance too win".

Thanks & yes I know polls can be an iffy gauge. As for your reasoning to vote that is your perogative. I am not astute politically but have noted historically our financial problems have been on the heels of presidents of republican persuasion

I wish we could just get rid of the political parties. It really serves no good purpose in my mind. It harkens continually back to a civil war type mentality.

Where the USA is divided in two.

Lets just pick the best Human for the job. The one that represents us the best to the world. The one that can get along the best with other world leaders. The one who hopefully has truthful advisors in areas that he alone is not qualified to decide.

One of the things that Obama talked about that I really liked was how Amrica's image is so tarnished these days & needs a hand. ( my interpretation ) I couldn't agree more with that.

Those points that McCain harped on about how important it was to pre qualify if you will folks he as president would sit down with vs Obama's I will sit with no pre condition style was a much fresher style & one I felt I prefered. I know it was getting twisted but I got the message as intended.

Anyway..............

As Americans I think we both just hope for better times yes?

In a more perfect world (or country) as you describe without the parties or special interests, Ron Paul or Mike Huckabee would be battling for the Presidency with Dennis Kucinich, but alas we will not wake up in that world and 40 days from now either Obama or McCain will be the new President. I do feel sorry for my grandchildren

[midas]

One of the things that Obama talked about that I really liked was how Amrica's image is so tarnished these days & needs a hand. ( my interpretation ) I couldn't agree more with that.

Flying....... this is somewhat of an understatement. I am not American but those who are

have much more to worry about than the Financial Crisis and even more if McCain wins.

You should read the new book " Against US " by Jim Sciutto...........

Here is a sample :-

In 2002 I began filing in-depth reports on the Arab World for ABC News. After nearly 100 assignments in Muslim countries, I came to a disturbing conclusion: the Al-Qaeda-inspired view of an evil America bent on destroying Islam has moved from the fringes to the mainstream. Today, a surprising number of America’s enemies are not wild-eyed fanatics but moderates, often middle-class and well educated, frequently young, many motivated by political convictions more than religious belief.

During my time abroad, I came to know a wide, even strange variety of people very well. They range from a former Al Qaeda jihadi turned electrician in Saudi Arabia to a Jordanian college student willing to risk his life by killing Americans in Baghdad; from a Christian woman who supports Hezbollah in Lebanon, to bitter pro-democracy advocates in Egypt who feel betrayed by the U.S. to British-born Muslim terrorists living in London. Through their stories and our many face-to-face encounters, I hope to build a revealing portrait of the depth and scope of anti-American sentiment.

Opposing America has become the unifying rallying cry for a rapidly growing pan-Arab nationalist movement. Conspiracy theories abound as Muslims feel they are targeted by America, their political autonomy sabotaged. The Iraq war has become one of the most powerful recruiting tools for enemies of the U.S.

Even at the worst times and in some of the scariest places, I found glimmers of hope for America to turn the tide of hate. I became friends with a young female student in Afghanistan who is cautiously optimistic that the U.S. will not fail her country in the rebuilding effort – and a reformed jihadi in London who is finding ways to counsel young British Muslims away from anti-American hate.

[OlRedEyes]

Americans are constantly complaining about the fact that the rest of the world has lost respect for them / hate them. But then they turn around and vote for a total idiot like Bush, twice, and now McCain (which I am pretty sure will win). War and fear mongers, basically. The guy is so old he can hardly move his head. He cannot look the person he is debating in the eyes, allegedly because he doesn't like him. How will he be able to communicate with world leaders he doesn't like, for instance Putin? All McCain can seem to do is stand there and mumble 'I got experience'. Being a war veteran doesn't give you vision.

Their total focus on war has led America and the world into near chaos, but they find no lesson to be learnt in all this. The only thing the republicans seem comfortable talking about at any time is war. Dinosaurs.

And what will happen if McCain kicks the bucket and the genius Palin takes over is something to really look forward to. God will really be on their side.....

Scary stuff.

[midas]

Yes a very bad trait - i.e. to not learn from your mistakes - if they vote for McCain.

But then if you read the book " Three Billion New Capitalists "

by Clyde Prestowitz it shows how there is nothing remarkable about the USA !

They became powerful by accident not because of their superior intelligence

or their ability to innovate - in fact everything they invented that could have been

good -they ended up loosing the rights to other countries such as Japan !!

[flying]

Midas & OlRedEyes I agree with you both.

For the life of me I cannot understand why folks voted the way they did & I hope it is as you say fear or ignorance.

I know 9-11 had a lot to do with his re-election.

There are so many times I am thoroughly embarrassed by how our goverment towards others. Very much like a big bully.

Yet if someone else does we run right in & say hey hey you cannot act like that????

I still believe the majority here know in their hearts right from wrong.

I wish there was a way we could all vote on things more often.

Easily so it could be done. Heck hook it up to cable TV what ever it takes

So often we are reminded it is a free country......a democracy

Yet it seems we have no say in the big decisions.

If we took a vote would we still be in Iraq? I wonder?

[midas]

Midas & OlRedEyes I agree with you both.

For the life of me I cannot understand why folks voted the way they did & I hope it is as you say fear or ignorance.

I know 9-11 had a lot to do with his re-election.

There are so many times I am thoroughly embarrassed by how our goverment towards others. Very much like a big bully.

Yet if someone else does we run right in & say hey hey you cannot act like that????

I still believe the majority here know in their hearts right from wrong.

I wish there was a way we could all vote on things more often.

Easily so it could be done. Heck hook it up to cable TV what ever it takes

So often we are reminded it is a free country......a democracy

Yet it seems we have no say in the big decisions.

If we took a vote would we still be in Iraq? I wonder?

YES YES !! a political journalist friend in Sydney said this to me

many years ago, that with today's technology - mobile phones and the Internet- the population could easily

participate continually in " referendums " particularly on the most important

issues. there is absolutely no need or justification to allow decisions to be made

all the time solely by these politicians who say they are acting in our best interests

[Naam]

I still believe the majority here know in their hearts right from wrong.

I wish there was a way we could all vote on things more often.

Easily so it could be done. Heck hook it up to cable TV what ever it takes

So often we are reminded it is a free country......a democracy

Yet it seems we have no say in the big decisions.

If we took a vote would we still be in Iraq? I wonder?

the Swiss can do that. that's why i consider Switzerland the only real democracy on this planet.

addendum: when was Switzerland last involved in a war???

Edited September 28, 2008 by Naam

[siamamerican]

Yes a very bad trait - i.e. to not learn from your mistakes - if they vote for McCain.

But then if you read the book " Three Billion New Capitalists "

by Clyde Prestowitz it shows how there is nothing remarkable about the USA !

They became powerful by accident not because of their superior intelligence

or their ability to innovate - in fact everything they invented that could have been

good -they ended up loosing the rights to other countries such as Japan !!

Midas & OlRedEyes I agree with you both.

For the life of me I cannot understand why folks voted the way they did & I hope it is as you say fear or ignorance.

I know 9-11 had a lot to do with his re-election.

There are so many times I am thoroughly embarrassed by how our goverment towards others. Very much like a big bully.

Yet if someone else does we run right in & say hey hey you cannot act like that????

I still believe the majority here know in their hearts right from wrong.

I wish there was a way we could all vote on things more often.

Easily so it could be done. Heck hook it up to cable TV what ever it takes

So often we are reminded it is a free country......a democracy

Yet it seems we have no say in the big decisions.

If we took a vote would we still be in Iraq? I wonder?

YES YES !! a political journalist friend in Sydney said this to me

many years ago, that with today's technology - mobile phones and the Internet- the population could easily

participate continually in " referendums " particularly on the most important

issues. there is absolutely no need or justification to allow decisions to be made

all the time solely by these politicians who say they are acting in our best interests

Midas,

These are two exceptionally dim witted posts. America doesn't claim to have intellectually superior people. A number of nations have gone down this road and we all know how that ended.

America has succeeded as a melting pot of all ilks. I wonder why so many people want to become citizens? Maybe we are on a 200+ year lucky streak. It couldn't have anything to with our infrastructure or political system. How many countries have emulated our system? Hmm, two of the most economically successful countries of the last 30 years (Japan and Germany). Again, I'm sure there success was based on luck also.

Please post another silly post – I promise to laugh at you.

[BEENTHEREDONETHAT]

Teatree.............That is one impressive letter. I don't see how that can be ignored by the house and senate and if it is, those who vote for the bail out should be voted out of office.

In this day in age having 192 "ACEDEMICS" sign a letter stating that the plan "COULD" be fatal is a simple process. Send a mass email out to all the university professors and a small minority will sign on.

Send out another mass email to the same audience, stating that those earning over $250k should pay taxes of 80% on all dollars earned over $250k. Again, I assume, a small minority, but probably greater than 192 would sign on. Fortunately this isn't how decisions are made.

Guess I am having one of my dense days, but why are they signing the letter? Or are you infering that they are not bright enough to check the source and content of the letter before signing. If that is true the US education system is in really deep trouble.

I have no clue why they are signing the letter. I assume the reason being that they have reservations. They have opinions and 192 is a small minority. Another mass email could be sent out to top economists listing the strenghs of the plan and IMO 192 signatures wouldn't be hard to gather.

I don't feel this letter is substancial evidence that the plan doesn't have merrit. The letter states that the plan "COULD" be fatal. Could not implementing the plan be fatal also? In the end, something will be passed in the next 10 days and the delay might be possitive. My point is that the letter was probably sent to a mass audience and I would expect a great number of top economists support and don't support the plan.

Don't think your having a dense day. I do think that basing your judgment on one letter is a little simplistic. Haven't read your other posts so you might have other reasons for not supporting the plan.

Siam........sorry for the delay in a response missed this earlier. I think my feeling is more of a gut feel than anything. Basicly I don't trust the politicians to do the right thing, they are more likely to do the most profitable thing for them. We just keep hearing bits and pieces from everyone putting on either the democrat or republican view. They can both comment on the same thing and come up 180 degrees apart.

For example if you comment on something unpopular that Bush did the republicans say it wasn't Bush it was the democratic congress. But then when they discuss "Community reinvestment act" they say it was Clinton's fault because he was president. If I'm not mistaken it was a republican congress at that time so why wasn't it their fault? It is all BS and slanted in whatever way they favor. Both parties constantly do it so I just don't trust any of them.

They sound like car salesmen. If you don't provide this 700billion today the deal will be to late. Buy today or the price will go up, you don't have to read the deal there is no time for that. Sign it and we will look after you.

700billion only seems like part of the total, the following occured over the last 14months.

Here's a list of some of the more recent Federal Reserve actions in the financial markets published by Reuters:

Bailout type Cost to taxpayers

$ 700 billion+ - Proposed Treasury Department legislation

$ 29 billion - Bear Stearns financing

$ 200 bilion - Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac nationalization

$ 85 billion - AIG loan and nationalization

$ 300 billion - Federal Housing Administration housing rescue bill

$4 billion - Mortgage community grants

$87 billion - JPMorgan Chase repayments

$200 billion+ - Loans to banks via Fed's Term Auction Facility

$ 50 billion - Loans from Depression-era Exchange Stabilization Fund

$144 billion - Purchases of mortgage securities by Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac

TOTAL: $1.8 trillion+

COST PER US HOUSHOLD: $17,064+

Don't hear much about what they already spent.

Siam I'm not sure I answered your question but there is no easy answer. I should add I'm not for either party and feel it should be more the individual we vote for. Right now it is none of the above.

Edited September 28, 2008 by BEENTHEREDONETHAT

[siamamerican]

Teatree.............That is one impressive letter. I don't see how that can be ignored by the house and senate and if it is, those who vote for the bail out should be voted out of office.

In this day in age having 192 "ACEDEMICS" sign a letter stating that the plan "COULD" be fatal is a simple process. Send a mass email out to all the university professors and a small minority will sign on.

Send out another mass email to the same audience, stating that those earning over $250k should pay taxes of 80% on all dollars earned over $250k. Again, I assume, a small minority, but probably greater than 192 would sign on. Fortunately this isn't how decisions are made.

Guess I am having one of my dense days, but why are they signing the letter? Or are you infering that they are not bright enough to check the source and content of the letter before signing. If that is true the US education system is in really deep trouble.

I have no clue why they are signing the letter. I assume the reason being that they have reservations. They have opinions and 192 is a small minority. Another mass email could be sent out to top economists listing the strenghs of the plan and IMO 192 signatures wouldn't be hard to gather.

I don't feel this letter is substancial evidence that the plan doesn't have merrit. The letter states that the plan "COULD" be fatal. Could not implementing the plan be fatal also? In the end, something will be passed in the next 10 days and the delay might be possitive. My point is that the letter was probably sent to a mass audience and I would expect a great number of top economists support and don't support the plan.

Don't think your having a dense day. I do think that basing your judgment on one letter is a little simplistic. Haven't read your other posts so you might have other reasons for not supporting the plan.

Siam........sorry for the delay in a response missed this earlier. I think my feeling is more of a gut feel than anything. Basicly I don't trust the politicians to do the right thing, they are more likely to do the most profitable thing for them. We just keep hearing bits and pieces from everyone putting on either the democrat or republican view. They can both comment on the same thing and come up 180 degrees apart.

For example if you comment on something unpopular that Bush did the republicans say it wasn't Bush it was the democratic congress. But then when they discuss "Community reinvestment act" they say it was Clinton's fault because he was president. If I'm not mistaken it was a republican congress at that time so why wasn't it their fault? It is all BS and slanted in whatever way they favor. Both parties constantly do it so I just don't trust any of them.

They sound like car salesmen. If you don't provide this 700billion today the deal will be to late. Buy today or the price will go up, you don't have to read the deal there is no time for that. Sign it and we will look after you.

700billion only seems like part of the total, the following occured over the last 14months.

Here's a list of some of the more recent Federal Reserve actions in the financial markets published by Reuters:

Bailout type Cost to taxpayers

$ 700 billion+ - Proposed Treasury Department legislation

$ 29 billion - Bear Stearns financing

$ 200 bilion - Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac nationalization

$ 85 billion - AIG loan and nationalization

$ 300 billion - Federal Housing Administration housing rescue bill

$4 billion - Mortgage community grants

$87 billion - JPMorgan Chase repayments

$200 billion+ - Loans to banks via Fed's Term Auction Facility

$ 50 billion - Loans from Depression-era Exchange Stabilization Fund

$144 billion - Purchases of mortgage securities by Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac

TOTAL: $1.8 trillion+

COST PER US HOUSHOLD: $17,064+

Don't hear much about what they already spent.

Siam I'm not sure I answered your question but there is no easy answer. I should add I'm not for either party and feel it should be more the individual we vote for. Right now it is none of the above.

The political posturing is painful to watch. I'm tired of the blame game and want a solution. Patience has never been a strength of mine and maybe a little more time will deliver a better solution if they put the petty bickering aside.

The cost you listed are enormous. I look at it as more of an investment. A risky one, but an investment nonetheless. For example AIG, if I remember correctly, is paying 10% interest on the borrowed money. Also the assets purchased in the debated plan will have value. I don't think anyone really has clue on what that value might be when sold, but it will much greater than $0.

[midas]

Please feel free to laugh as much as you like.

America doesn't claim to have intellectually superior people.

And I never claimed that either ! But it has always had a self-righteous attitude ( indeed exactly like the one you are displaying in this thread ! ) that people in other countries are tired of as well as its duplicity - acting as the world's policeman only where it suits its own purposes.

America has succeeded as a melting pot of all ilks. I wonder why so many people want to become citizens? Maybe we are on a 200+ year lucky streak. It couldn't have anything to with our infrastructure or political system. How many countries have emulated our system? Hmm, two of the most economically successful countries of the last 30 years (Japan and Germany). Again, I'm sure there success was based on luck also.

Yes USA 's infrastructure was good in post war years but needs to be upgraded to stay ahead. And your political system has some serious flaws. Japan and Germany like America were indeed also successful over the last 30 years- but what about the future ? Japan faces a very uncertain future with

more old aged people than working young. Germany is probably already in recession than what happens next ? how will Germany compete with China and India with such a huge disparity in labor costs?

[Naam]

America has succeeded as a melting pot of all ilks. I wonder why so many people want to become citizens? Maybe we are on a 200+ year lucky streak.

yawn! the old story over and over again

please list the countries according to priority from where the immigrants came during the last few decades or citizens who are presently applying for immigration. how many applications from Sweden, Norway, Finland, Denmark, Germany, France, Switzerland, Austria, U.K., Italy, Canada or Spain?

[siamamerican]

Please feel free to laugh as much as you like.

America doesn't claim to have intellectually superior people.

And I never claimed that either ! But it has always had a self-righteous attitude ( indeed exactly like the one you are displaying in this thread ! ) that people in other countries are tired of as well as its duplicity - acting as the world's policeman only where it suits its own purposes.

America has succeeded as a melting pot of all ilks. I wonder why so many people want to become citizens? Maybe we are on a 200+ year lucky streak. It couldn't have anything to with our infrastructure or political system. How many countries have emulated our system? Hmm, two of the most economically successful countries of the last 30 years (Japan and Germany). Again, I'm sure there success was based on luck also.

Yes USA 's infrastructure was good in post war years but needs to be upgraded to stay ahead. And your political system has some serious flaws. Japan and Germany like America were indeed also successful over the last 30 years- but what about the future ? Japan faces a very uncertain future with

more old aged people than working young. Germany is probably already in recession than what happens next ? how will Germany compete with China and India with such a huge disparity in labor costs?

Didn't you just write this:

"They became powerful by accident not because of their superior intelligence

or their ability to innovate - in fact everything they invented that could have been

good -they ended up loosing the rights to other countries such as Japan !! "

Now, you are claiming not to be arrogant. LOL

Wow, your last paragraph is so enlightening, unless you casually read a newspaper on occasion.

Germany is in a recession. OMG, that has never happened! Japan's population is aging. Hmm, just like many countries - China included. Remember the one baby policy? You ask how Germany is going to compete with China and India with their huge disparity in labor costs. I'm sure they will do just fine and one day if China becomes as successful economically as Germany they will no longer possess a labor cost advantage.

[siamamerican]

America has succeeded as a melting pot of all ilks. I wonder why so many people want to become citizens? Maybe we are on a 200+ year lucky streak.

yawn! the old story over and over again

please list the countries according to priority from where the immigrants came during the last few decades or citizens who are presently applying for immigration. how many applications from Sweden, Norway, Finland, Denmark, Germany, France, Switzerland, Austria, U.K., Italy, Canada or Spain?

No, I'll just ask why you chose to live in America? Your posts of late are getting quite dull. At least they are short -yawn.

Also, the list of countries above are superior to others? Hmm, that rings a historical bell.

[midas]

Please feel free to laugh as much as you like.

America doesn't claim to have intellectually superior people.

And I never claimed that either ! But it has always had a self-righteous attitude ( indeed exactly like the one you are displaying in this thread ! ) that people in other countries are tired of as well as its duplicity - acting as the world's policeman only where it suits its own purposes.

America has succeeded as a melting pot of all ilks. I wonder why so many people want to become citizens? Maybe we are on a 200+ year lucky streak. It couldn't have anything to with our infrastructure or political system. How many countries have emulated our system? Hmm, two of the most economically successful countries of the last 30 years (Japan and Germany). Again, I'm sure there success was based on luck also.

Yes USA 's infrastructure was good in post war years but needs to be upgraded to stay ahead. And your political system has some serious flaws. Japan and Germany like America were indeed also successful over the last 30 years- but what about the future ? Japan faces a very uncertain future with

more old aged people than working young. Germany is probably already in recession than what happens next ? how will Germany compete with China and India with such a huge disparity in labor costs?

Didn't you just write this:

"They became powerful by accident not because of their superior intelligence

or their ability to innovate - in fact everything they invented that could have been

good -they ended up loosing the rights to other countries such as Japan !! "

Now, you are claiming not to be arrogant. LOL

Wow, your last paragraph is so enlightening, unless you casually read a newspaper on occasion.

Germany is in a recession. OMG, that has never happened! Japan's population is aging. Hmm, just like many countries - China included. Remember the one baby policy? You ask how Germany is going to compete with China and India with their huge disparity in labor costs. I'm sure they will do just fine and one day if China becomes as successful economically as Germany they will no longer possess a labor cost advantage.

siamamerican I'm not being arrogant at all - I am merely summarising what

Clyde Prestowitz ( one of your fellow countryman incidentally )said in his book but

I'm not sure if the kind of books he has written would appeal to you.......................

Please tell me how do you measure whether a country is " successful economically " ?

[Naam]

America has succeeded as a melting pot of all ilks. I wonder why so many people want to become citizens? Maybe we are on a 200+ year lucky streak.

yawn! the old story over and over again

please list the countries according to priority from where the immigrants came during the last few decades or citizens who are presently applying for immigration. how many applications from Sweden, Norway, Finland, Denmark, Germany, France, Switzerland, Austria, U.K., Italy, Canada or Spain?

No, I'll just ask why you chose to live in America? Your posts of late are getting quite dull. At least they are short -yawn.

Also, the list of countries above are superior to others? Hmm, that rings a historical bell.

i chose to live in America because i paid a fraction of the 47% income tax i would have paid in my home country Germany. and since four years i chose to live in Thailand because here nobody asks me silly questions like "who are you, what are you, why are you?" AND of course because i pay zero income tax whereas in the U.S. or in Germany the lion share of my tax dollars would be wasted by incompetent politicians.

my postings might be dull but most of the time they contain facts and not utterly lame and irrelevant insinuations/distortions like your "the list of countries above are superior to others?"

[bingobongo]

it appears some form of the bailout package will be voted on today (Sunday) and with Q3 ending on Tuesday, fund managers will prop up the market as they try to appear somewhat competent (which they are not), so could have big rally on Monday (tomorrow)

regardless, this bailout package will have only short term impact, unless the DOW clears 12,197 (200 DMA) the trend is still down

sell on the bounces

Edited September 28, 2008 by bingobongo

[PCA]

yeah it looks like they have brewed a nice soup over the weekend. One proposal was to tax transactions on every trade filled, no matter stock, future or option in order to refinance the bailout of the 700 billion pumped into dead meat. Well, what can I say just in case that this gets approved and announced Bingobongo gonna be my TV-Hero until end of days as we will get such a messy crash beyond all your wildest dreams - still rumour though.

[siamamerican]

i chose to live in America because i paid a fraction of the 47% income tax i would have paid in my home country Germany. and since four years i chose to live in Thailand because here nobody asks me silly questions like "who are you, what are you, why are you?" AND of course because i pay zero income tax whereas in the U.S. or in Germany the lion share of my tax dollars would be wasted by incompetent politicians.

my postings might be dull but most of the time they contain facts and not utterly lame and irrelevant insinuations/distortions like your "the list of countries above are superior to others?"

We all are abundantly aware that you are wealthy and are living in Thailand because of the tax savings. I'll go days without reading TV, but when I do, there is always a post from you flaunting your wealth in an obscure way.

How about explaining your post below:

"please list the countries according to priority from where the immigrants came during the last few decades or citizens who are presently applying for immigration. how many applications from Sweden, Norway, Finland, Denmark, Germany, France, Switzerland, Austria, U.K., Italy, Canada or Spain? "

As I understand it, you want a ranking by country. Do you want it also by skin color? If you want, I can give you a total, but that would include some lesser countries in your eyes.

[Samuian]

i chose to live in America because i paid a fraction of the 47% income tax i would have paid in my home country Germany. and since four years i chose to live in Thailand because here nobody asks me silly questions like "who are you, what are you, why are you?" AND of course because i pay zero income tax whereas in the U.S. or in Germany the lion share of my tax dollars would be wasted by incompetent politicians.

my postings might be dull but most of the time they contain facts and not utterly lame and irrelevant insinuations/distortions like your "the list of countries above are superior to others?"

We all are abundantly aware that you are wealthy and are living in Thailand because of the tax savings. I'll go days without reading TV, but when I do, there is always a post from you flaunting your wealth in an obscure way.

I might be wrong, but I have the dire impression that you didn't understand what naam actually meant!

[lannarebirth]

Shorting Financial Stocks Should Resume

By ARTURO BRIS

The emergency ban imposed last Monday by the Securities and Exchange Commission on short selling for all "financial" stocks has done more harm than good. A close examination of recent trades on the New York Stock Exchange suggests it has exacerbated fluctuations in the affected securities' prices, and disrupted the functioning of fair, orderly equity markets. These are the very problems the ban was suppposed to prevent, if not end.

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB1222652838...=googlenews_wsj

[midas]

We all are abundantly aware that you are wealthy and are living in Thailand because of the tax savings. I'll go days without reading TV, but when I do, there is always a post from you flaunting your wealth in an obscure way.

siamamerican I will let Namm defend his own post but attack him for merely talking about this daily activities in LOS but I dont

see any difference to your reference to your obvious trading prowess

Look at you wrote in this forum on 21-9 -2008

" The US issues last week created a great buying opportunity internationally and in the US. While everybody was selling, I was buying. I was down 15% this year and by Friday was up 15%. I don't understand all the trash talk about the US economy. Maybe because the stocks have performed better than all major developed countries in the last 12 months and some American hater are jealous. It must be frustrating to spend the last year posting trash about the US stock economy and now watch it's stock market perform much better than most countries (Germany, England, Spain, Japan, China, Australia...)

Next week I'll be selling deep in the money calls to protect my gains. Also, look in the mirror - Europe has some extremely overvalued real estate. Hmmm, what might be in store for some countries in the next year? "

overvalued real estate in France ? really - I think you should aquaint your self with the mortgage application rules

in places like France and Switzerland because I think America has a great deal to learn

Edited September 29, 2008 by midas

[siamamerican]

We all are abundantly aware that you are wealthy and are living in Thailand because of the tax savings. I'll go days without reading TV, but when I do, there is always a post from you flaunting your wealth in an obscure way.

siamamerican I will let Namm defend his own post but attack him for merely talking about this daily activities in LOS but I dont

see any difference to your reference to your obvious trading prowess

Look at you wrote in this forum on 21-9 -2008

" The US issues last week created a great buying opportunity internationally and in the US. While everybody was selling, I was buying. I was down 15% this year and by Friday was up 15%. I don't understand all the trash talk about the US economy. Maybe because the stocks have performed better than all major developed countries in the last 12 months and some American hater are jealous. It must be frustrating to spend the last year posting trash about the US stock economy and now watch it's stock market perform much better than most countries (Germany, England, Spain, Japan, China, Australia...)

Next week I'll be selling deep in the money calls to protect my gains. Also, look in the mirror - Europe has some extremely overvalued real estate. Hmmm, what might be in store for some countries in the next year? "

overvalued real estate in France ? really - I think you should aquaint your self with the mortgage application rules

in places like France and Switzerland because I think America has a great deal to learn

Again, I'm at a loss at determining your point. My statements above were correct. I never discussed the mortgage application rules. I did state that European real estate is overvalued using historical values ( DO THE RESEARCH). Never discussed real estate in France or for that matter in any single country. I will now though. Last time I checked Ireland, England, and Spain were part of Europe. How are banks holding up in these countries with the huge drop in home values.

Also, look at the stock markets in the countries I listed. How are they performing compared to the US during the last 12 months.

Give it break. I'm not too intelligent, but you are quite ill equipped to discuss anything of relevance.

Edited September 29, 2008 by siamamerican

[midas]

Again, I'm at a loss at determining your point.

Also, look at the stock markets in the countries I listed. How are they performing compared to the US during the last 12 months.

Give it break. I'm not too intelligent, but you are quite ill equipped to discuss anything of relevance.

maybe you are not so quick on the uptake. My point is that you wrote a personal and objectionable

posting that Naam continually " flaunts his wealth " in his contributions to this forum which is no different

to you waffling on about your trading strategy

" I'm not too intelligent ' - ok then I don't have time to talk to you !

[Naam]

'siamamerican' post='2244057' date='2008-09-29 14:54:32']We all are abundantly aware that you are wealthy and are living in Thailand because of the tax savings. I'll go days without reading TV, but when I do, there is always a post from you flaunting your wealth in an obscure way.

siamamerican I will let Namm defend his own post but attack him for merely talking about this daily activities in LOS but I dont

see any difference to your reference to your obvious trading prowess

if some frustrated poor boy thinks that mentioning an important fact like tax savings in a discussion "why do you live in Thailand?" is "flaunting wealth in an obscure way" i can only smile. what is there to defend?

[bingobongo]

hi people, pain is coming...........even more than now...........and yes LOS it will taste it too............just like 3 day old pad thai from one of those hygenic vending carts on a Bangkok soi

Option ARM Recast and Payment Shock Forecast

[LaoPo]

BLACK MONDAY for Banks and financials has ended in Europe and the disaster left big...very big scars.

The blows are enormous with percentages far in the RED.

Banks have been nationalized in Iceland, UK, Belgium/Holland (50%) Germany and CONFIDENCE is a word which has to be re-invented again.

I just had inside information that a bank (ING) does NOT supply credit anymore to some very large companies; NO CREDIT will be allowed anymore to NOBODY uintil December 31, 2008

You might as well kill the patient

Trust and confidence are completely gone.

The most devastating is that the financial crisis has now infected the normal economy and shares are tumbling;

AAPL/Apple is down -14%,

Arcelor Mittal is down -14%,

Cisco -5%,

Google -7%

Have to see what's next.

LaoPo

Edited September 29, 2008 by LaoPo