Animal Metaphors

[DavidHouston]

English contains a great number of similes and metaphors with animal themes. Consider, "crafty as a fox," "card shark," "swift as a cheetah," "to badger someone," and "to tuna radio."

Thai has a fair share of animal similes and metaphors as well. The most well know is "พูดงูๆ ปลาๆ" [pôot ngoo ngoo bplaa bplaa], "to speak snake snake, fish fish." This, as any tourist clearly knows who has heard a Thai express him or herself this way, means to be unable to speak English, or, more properly, to be able to articulate sounds as well as a snake or a fish can.

What Thai animal-based similes or metaphors have you heard and what do they imply?

Edited August 18, 2007 by DavidHouston

[Neeranam]

วัวแก่เคี้ยวหญ้าอ่อน

Old men like young girls.

เกลียดตัวกินไข่เกลียดปลาไหลกินน้ำแกง

This means something like to not like someone but to benefit from them.

จับปลาสองมือ

This is like to catch two birds with one stone, but also means a guy with more than one wife.

ดูช้างให้ดูหาง ดูนางให้ดูแม่

When you look over an elephant, look at its tail; When you look over a girl, look at her mother.

check out this site

http://teacher.nsru.ac.th/samrahn/proverb.htm

Edited August 18, 2007 by Neeranam

[Rikker]

The insult ควาย conjures up images of stupidity and stubbornness.

And while dealing with insults, may I also suggest ปากหมา--foul-mouthed.

Or ซนเหมือนลิง "naughty like a monkey"

..to name a few.

[mangkorn]

ใจดีสู้เสือ - grab the bull by the horns; do the right thing

ชาติเสือไม่ทิ้งลาย - a leopard can't change his spots

หนีเสือปะจระเข้ - out of the frying pan, into the fire

หน้าเนี้ิอใจเสีอ - two-faced; hypocrite

งงเป็นไก่ตาแตก - like a chicken with its head cut off

แมลงเม่าบินเช้ากองไฟ - like moths to a flame

วัวหายล้อมคอก - close the barn door after the horse is gone

ไม่มีมูลหมาไม่ขี้ - where there's smoke, there's fire

รักวัวให้ผูกรักลูกให้ตี - spare the rod, spoil the child

ปลาเน่าตัวเตียวเหม็นหมดทั้งข้อง - one rotten apple spoils the whole barrel

พูดจนลิงหลับ - talks too much...

Any necessary corrections are welcome. Cheers.

[DavidHouston]

I had an American friend from Buffalo, New York, who was a teacher in Phangnga boy's high school. He, innocently, told his students that he was from "Buffalo." The kids could not believe that there was actually a city named after a "kwai." No matter how many times my friend told them that a bison was not a water buffalo, the stigma stuck. What can you say to teenage boys?

[mangkorn]

I had an American friend from Buffalo, New York, who was a teacher in Phangnga boy's high school. He, innocently, told his students that he was from "Buffalo." The kids could not believe that there was actually a city named after a "kwai." No matter how many times my friend told them that a bison was not a water buffalo, the stigma stuck. What can you say to teenage boys?

I will never understand why the Thai tourism industry - public and private - insists on fostering the egregious misconception that there is a River Kwai in Kanchanaburi.

Why don't they simply teach foreigners the proper name? It's simple enough.

Sorry...another pet peeve of mine.

[LookSaMoon]

I had an American friend from Buffalo, New York, who was a teacher in Phangnga boy's high school. He, innocently, told his students that he was from "Buffalo." The kids could not believe that there was actually a city named after a "kwai." No matter how many times my friend told them that a bison was not a water buffalo, the stigma stuck. What can you say to teenage boys?

I will never understand why the Thai tourism industry - public and private - insists on fostering the egregious misconception that there is a River Kwai in Kanchanaburi.

Why don't they simply teach foreigners the proper name? It's simple enough.

Sorry...another pet peeve of mine.

I think the reason that our " แม่น้ำแคว = River Kwai " is Thai Tourism do not know how to spell แคว

in English.

Edited August 18, 2007 by LookSaMoon

[aanon]

แมลงเม่าบินเช้ากองไฟ - like moths to a flame

Any necessary corrections are welcome. Cheers.

typo: this should be เข้ากองไฟ.

couple more...

สอนจระเข้ว่ายน้ำ

literally, to teach a crocodile to swim. means to teach someone something they already know how to do well.

รีดเลือดกับปู

literally, to sqeeze blood from a crab. like english 'to get blood from a stone'.

all the best.

[DavidHouston]

Thanks, folks, for all those sayings and metaphors. Here are some more simple language analogies which are usable in common Thai speech like many y'all have listed above:

กระต่ายตื่นตูม [grà-dtàai dtèun dtoom] the equivalent to the English “scaredy cat” – similar metaphor, different animal;

ลิงตกต้นไม้ [ling dtòk dtôn máai] – even an expert in a subject area can make a mistake;

ลิงได้แก้ว [ling dâai gâew] – equivalent to “pearls to a swine”, again similar metaphor, different animal;

ลิดตีนปู [lít dteen bpoo] – a rather gruesome metaphor, “to trim the legs off a crab”, crippling it slowly, meaning to take power or ability slowly away from someone

แมวพึ่งพระ [maew pêung prá]– a cat dependent on a monk, defined by a book I have as “การอยู่ในคุ้มครองของผู้ใหญ่” to be under the control of a senior person. Maybe this is like “to be a kept-woman”?

(These are analogs of the English, “to do something just for the halibut”, a fish metaphor; or “linguistics”, the study of monkeys, another primate metaphor.)

Thai, like Enlish is full of these speech-enhancers. I would certainly like to improve my language ability through the use of phrases like these and the ones you have provided.

All of these are from a book called, "คำคล้องจอง"

Edited August 18, 2007 by DavidHouston

[mangkorn]

I had an American friend from Buffalo, New York, who was a teacher in Phangnga boy's high school. He, innocently, told his students that he was from "Buffalo." The kids could not believe that there was actually a city named after a "kwai." No matter how many times my friend told them that a bison was not a water buffalo, the stigma stuck. What can you say to teenage boys?

I will never understand why the Thai tourism industry - public and private - insists on fostering the egregious misconception that there is a River Kwai in Kanchanaburi.

Why don't they simply teach foreigners the proper name? It's simple enough.

Sorry...another pet peeve of mine.

I think the reason that our " แม่น้ำแคว = River Kwai " is we do not know how to spell แคว in English.

Maybe, but "Kwai" could never be understood by anyone who speaks any language that uses the Roman alphabet as representing how the name actually sounds. It is probably more likely that since farangs already say it - because of that historically bad transliteration - that the Thai tourism industry is afraid to correct them, owing to the tendency to defer to foreigners that sometimes inhibits local people in some tourist destinations from doing so, out of politeness (or out of a fear of alienating them and losing the chance to get their money...) Because the fact is that the tour guides and hotel people and drivers and employees of tourist offices surely do also PRONOUNCE the name as "Kwai," when they speak with foreigners; thus, it is not only the written representation that is incorrect. And it is only one example of very many examples where the names have been changed to protect the innocent tourist.

But I find that inexcusable, for the following reasons:

- I don't think you do anybody any favours by encouraging them to speak words and names improperly; when I was still fairly new here, and mentioned the "Kwai" River to a Thai person, she laughed in my face, and made me feel stupid - which I was, in that regard, certainly. But I didn't feel badly about her reaction; I was very grateful to her for setting me straight. I felt badly about having been misled in general. The same thing with that preposterously false name "Vientiane" - which also prompted another new friend to ridicule me when I said it, quite innocently and ignorantly. The proper name is very easy to say, ergo: that is what farangs should say. I don't ever want to sound like an idiot - not if I can help it, that is - and I'd guess that many if not most people might feel the same way, on that score.

- Although tourists, or even 99 percent of ex-pat foreigners living in Asia, will not likely trouble themselves to learn the language(s), there is nothing wrong - and everything right - with teaching them just a few basic words and place-names of the country in which they find themselves, especially when those are very common words and names. If a foreigner went to the city of Buffalo, in the USA, and then pronounced it Beefalo or some such perversion, the proper thing to do would be to correct him. To me, that would be the "polite" thing to do. People feel good about themselves when they learn a couple of words, especially since that is about as far as they will ever get with a different language. Even some of the laziest farangs or Japanese or whomever may eventually learn the name Krung Thep. So, why not the name of a world-famous river? Or, that popular tourist province of Gra-bee (but not that abomination "Crabby," for goodness sake...).

- In Central America, for example (also a tourist destination - well, okay, at least some parts of it are...), we would never change names like Nicaragua or Guatemala just because some foreigner may have trouble pronouncing it. Never.

I do apologize for that rant. Did made me feel better, though. We are talking about language, and communication. But since I did rant, perhaps LookSaMoon or another Thai colleague could tell me if there is an idiom comparable to "pet peeve."

I finally found this one in a dictionary: สิ่งหรือเรื่องที่น่ารำคาญใจ - which is explanatory, but I doubt that Thai people actually say that, in the context to which I refer.

Is there a common way to express that idea? It must be a universal concept...

Thanks, and cheers.

[mangkorn]

David: bringing myself back to the animal theme of the thread, นกน้อยในกรงทอง is one common way to say "a kept-woman." I could be wrong about that, or it could have a broader meaning, to also include someone else who is not necessarily a kept-woman, but who is kept in a pampered environment? (George Bush? Yes, but for him I would probably rather go with กบในกะลา)

Edited August 18, 2007 by mangkorn

[LookSaMoon]

I had an American friend from Buffalo, New York, who was a teacher in Phangnga boy's high school. He, innocently, told his students that he was from "Buffalo." The kids could not believe that there was actually a city named after a "kwai." No matter how many times my friend told them that a bison was not a water buffalo, the stigma stuck. What can you say to teenage boys?

I will never understand why the Thai tourism industry - public and private - insists on fostering the egregious misconception that there is a River Kwai in Kanchanaburi.

Why don't they simply teach foreigners the proper name? It's simple enough.

Sorry...another pet peeve of mine.

I think the reason that our " แม่น้ำแคว = River Kwai " is we do not know how to spell แคว in English.

Maybe, but "Kwai" could never be understood by anyone who speaks any language that uses the Roman alphabet as representing how the name actually sounds. It is probably more likely that since farangs already say it - because of that historically bad transliteration - that the Thai tourism industry is afraid to correct them, owing to the tendency to defer to foreigners that sometimes inhibits local people in some tourist destinations from doing so, out of politeness (or out of a fear of alienating them and losing the chance to get their money...) Because the fact is that the tour guides and hotel people and drivers and employees of tourist offices surely do also PRONOUNCE the name as "Kwai," when they speak with foreigners; thus, it is not only the written representation that is incorrect. And it is only one example of very many examples where the names have been changed to protect the innocent tourist.

But I find that inexcusable, for the following reasons:

- I don't think you do anybody any favours by encouraging them to speak words and names improperly; when I was still fairly new here, and mentioned the "Kwai" River to a Thai person, she laughed in my face, and made me feel stupid - which I was, in that regard, certainly. But I didn't feel badly about her reaction; I was very grateful to her for setting me straight. I felt badly about having been misled in general. The same thing with that preposterously false name "Vientiane" - which also prompted another new friend to ridicule me when I said it, quite innocently and ignorantly. The proper name is very easy to say, ergo: that is what farangs should say. I don't ever want to sound like an idiot - not if I can help it, that is - and I'd guess that many if not most people might feel the same way, on that score.

- Although tourists, or even 99 percent of ex-pat foreigners living in Asia, will not likely trouble themselves to learn the language(s), there is nothing wrong - and everything right - with teaching them just a few basic words and place-names of the country in which they find themselves, especially when those are very common words and names. If a foreigner went to the city of Buffalo, in the USA, and then pronounced it Beefalo or some such perversion, the proper thing to do would be to correct him. To me, that would be the "polite" thing to do. People feel good about themselves when they learn a couple of words, especially since that is about as far as they will ever get with a different language. Even some of the laziest farangs or Japanese or whomever may eventually learn the name Krung Thep. So, why not the name of a world-famous river? Or, that popular tourist province of Gra-bee (but not that abomination "Crabby," for goodness sake...).

- In Central America, for example (also a tourist destination - well, okay, at least some parts of it are...), we would never change names like Nicaragua or Guatemala just because some foreigner may have trouble pronouncing it. Never.

I do apologize for that rant. Did made me feel better, though. We are talking about language, and communication. But since I did rant, perhaps LookSaMoon or another Thai colleague could tell me if there is an idiom comparable to "pet peeve."

I finally found this one in a dictionary: สิ่งหรือเรื่องที่น่ารำคาญใจ - which is explanatory, but I doubt that Thai people actually say that, in the context to which I refer.

Is there a common way to express that idea? It must be a universal concept...

Thanks, and cheers.

I am sorry to hear about your experience in learning Thai na .

I think River Kwai is like Bangkok. I never tried to correct this word to any foreigner that it should pronouce as บางกอก not แบงคอก but how can I make foreigner believe me that the correct pronounce is บางกอก when our Tourist Authority said it's แบงคอก?

But for the word that I never know how to pronouce as Tourist Authority I will correct it for foreigner for sure.

Such like River Kwai, I thought it's only bad stransliterate but never know they pronounce wrong to foreigner too

For smiling or loughing when foreigner speak wrong, I am one of that person too . I do that because I think it's cute more than funny, guess it might not for foreigner, and always try to tell them what is right to say, if they understand na.

Well I am appreciated you that even had not good experience in learning Thai, you are still continue studying it. .... สู้สู้

[LookSaMoon]

David: bringing myself back to the animal theme of the thread, นกน้อยในกรงทอง is one common way to say "a kept-woman." I could be wrong about that, or it could have a broader meaning, to also include someone else who is not necessarily a kept-woman, but who is kept in a pampered environment? (George Bush? Yes, but for him I would probably rather go with กบในกะลา)

นกน้อยในกรงทอง - A person that get anything they want except freedom.

Hmmm.... that's what I understand about this word... maybe next person might explain better

[DavidHouston]

A wonderful old song, "A bird in a gilded cage" by Arthur J. Lamb. This is the "refrain" from that song:

"She's only a bird in a gilded cage,

A beautiful sight to see.

You may think she's happy and free from care,

She's not, though she seems to be.

'Tis sad when you think of her wasted life

For youth cannot mate with age;

And her beauty was sold

for an old man's gold,

She's a bird in a gilded cage."

It's exactly what you said, LookSaMoon, "A person that get anything they want except freedom."

[Edward B]

(อย่า)ขี่ช้างจับตั๊กแตน - (don't) ride an elephant to catch a grasshopper. = (don't) use a sledgehammer to crack a nut.

Meaning 1: Don't make something easy difficult.

Meaning 2: Use the correct tool for the correct job.

This is a common one I hear often.

[DavidHouston]

Edward B.

"อย่าขี่ช้างจับตั๊กแตน - (don't) ride an elephant to catch a grasshopper"

This is great! Two animals in one metaphor!

[brahmburgers]

I had an American friend from Buffalo, New York, who was a teacher in Phangnga boy's high school. He, innocently, told his students that he was from "Buffalo." The kids could not believe that there was actually a city named after a "kwai." No matter how many times my friend told them that a bison was not a water buffalo, the stigma stuck. What can you say to teenage boys?

I will never understand why the Thai tourism industry - public and private - insists on fostering the egregious misconception that there is a River Kwai in Kanchanaburi.

Why don't they simply teach foreigners the proper name? It's simple enough.

Sorry...another pet peeve of mine.

I think the reason that our " แม่น้ำแคว = River Kwai " is we do not know how to spell แคว in English.

Maybe, but "Kwai" could never be understood by anyone who speaks any language that uses the Roman alphabet as representing how the name actually sounds. It is probably more likely that since farangs already say it - because of that historically bad transliteration - that the Thai tourism industry is afraid to correct them, owing to the tendency to defer to foreigners that sometimes inhibits local people in some tourist destinations from doing so, out of politeness (or out of a fear of alienating them and losing the chance to get their money...) Because the fact is that the tour guides and hotel people and drivers and employees of tourist offices surely do also PRONOUNCE the name as "Kwai," when they speak with foreigners; thus, it is not only the written representation that is incorrect. And it is only one example of very many examples where the names have been changed to protect the innocent tourist.

But I find that inexcusable, for the following reasons:

- I don't think you do anybody any favours by encouraging them to speak words and names improperly; when I was still fairly new here, and mentioned the "Kwai" River to a Thai person, she laughed in my face, and made me feel stupid - which I was, in that regard, certainly. But I didn't feel badly about her reaction; I was very grateful to her for setting me straight. I felt badly about having been misled in general. The same thing with that preposterously false name "Vientiane" - which also prompted another new friend to ridicule me when I said it, quite innocently and ignorantly. The proper name is very easy to say, ergo: that is what farangs should say. I don't ever want to sound like an idiot - not if I can help it, that is - and I'd guess that many if not most people might feel the same way, on that score.

- Although tourists, or even 99 percent of ex-pat foreigners living in Asia, will not likely trouble themselves to learn the language(s), there is nothing wrong - and everything right - with teaching them just a few basic words and place-names of the country in which they find themselves, especially when those are very common words and names. If a foreigner went to the city of Buffalo, in the USA, and then pronounced it Beefalo or some such perversion, the proper thing to do would be to correct him. To me, that would be the "polite" thing to do. People feel good about themselves when they learn a couple of words, especially since that is about as far as they will ever get with a different language. Even some of the laziest farangs or Japanese or whomever may eventually learn the name Krung Thep. So, why not the name of a world-famous river? Or, that popular tourist province of Gra-bee (but not that abomination "Crabby," for goodness sake...).

- In Central America, for example (also a tourist destination - well, okay, at least some parts of it are...), we would never change names like Nicaragua or Guatemala just because some foreigner may have trouble pronouncing it. Never.

I do apologize for that rant. Did made me feel better, though. We are talking about language, and communication. But since I did rant, perhaps LookSaMoon or another Thai colleague could tell me if there is an idiom comparable to "pet peeve."

I finally found this one in a dictionary: สิ่งหรือเรื่องที่น่ารำคาญใจ - which is explanatory, but I doubt that Thai people actually say that, in the context to which I refer.

Is there a common way to express that idea? It must be a universal concept...

Thanks, and cheers.

I agree the standard transliteration protocols are bad and cause difficulties - especially for people just starting to try to learn Thai. The ubiquitous and unnecessary H's after T's and P's and K's .....plus the R's before N's make learning Thai harder than it already is.

On getting laughed at: Once in my English lecture to University students, I mentioned the capital of Vietnam: Hanoi and got a cascade of laughter. Is Ha-noi a Thai way of saying; 'looking for a bit of...." (with a sexual undertone?) or something like that ?

[cervin]

??????????????? = sugar cane into the mouth of an elephant = a fait accompli

Always liked this one.

cervin

[cervin]

??????????????? = sugar cane into the mouth of an elephant = a fait accompli

Always liked this one.

cervin

Sorry about the question marks. I tried to post Thai script but there appears to be a trick to it that I haven't mastered.

Again, my apologies.

cervin

[meadish_sweetball]

Hi cervin, probably a browser/platform problem. The forum works best with the Firefox browser, especially for Mac users. Set the encoding to Thai/Windows.

[mangkorn]

Hi cervin, probably a browser/platform problem. The forum works best with the Firefox browser, especially for Mac users. Set the encoding to Thai/Windows.

If using a Mac, in Firefox the encoding should be set to Western (ISO-8859-1).

[Jersey_UK]

Has anyone got any sayings involving a Tiger? (Good or Bad)

[mangkorn]

Has anyone got any sayings involving a Tiger? (Good or Bad)

(from post #4):

ใจดีสู้เสือ - grab the bull by the horns; do the right thing

(the righteous man fights the tiger)

ชาติเสือไม่ทิ้งลาย - a leopard can't change his spots

(a tiger doesn't throw off its stripes)

หนีเสือปะจระเข้ - out of the frying pan, into the fire

(escape from the tiger, only to run into the crocodile)

หน้าเนี้ิอใจเสีอ - two-faced; hypocrite

(human face; heart of a tiger)

Just a brief sampling; must be dozens all-told...

[cervin]

Hi cervin, probably a browser/platform problem. The forum works best with the Firefox browser, especially for Mac users. Set the encoding to Thai/Windows.

If using a Mac, in Firefox the encoding should be set to Western (ISO-8859-1).

You guys must be psychic. I have a Mac and was using Safari. So let me try with Firefox:

อ้อยเข้าปากช้าง

[mangkorn]

[

Edited August 24, 2007 by mangkorn

[mangkorn]

Hi cervin, probably a browser/platform problem. The forum works best with the Firefox browser, especially for Mac users. Set the encoding to Thai/Windows.

If using a Mac, in Firefox the encoding should be set to Western (ISO-8859-1).

You guys must be psychic. I have a Mac and was using Safari. So let me try with Firefox:

อ้อยเข้าปากช้าง

Looks like you're cooking with gas now, cervin.

And no, not psychic - I suffered through every encoding hassle using my Mac with Safari and other browsers, until Richard W. figured out the right combination.

Cheers.

Edited August 24, 2007 by mangkorn

[DavidHouston]

We were just watching weather on TV. The weatherperson was discussing the prevalence of "tornado"s in Thailand, using the English word in the Thai broadcast. Indeed there is a Thai word for tornado and it is an animal metahpor: "ลมงวง" (lom nguang) or "ลมงวงช้าง" (lom nguang cháang) or, literally "wind in the shape of an elephant's trunk". What could be more clear.

A question: Thai uses ลักษณนาม (lák-sà-nà-naam) or "numerial classifiers" when numbering items. The weathercaster used the word "ลูก" as the classifier for tornados, again using the English word "tornado". I was surprised but, Lexitron shows the following for "storm":

พายุ [N] storm; hurricane; gale; tempest. Classifier. ลูก. Something new every day!

[Jersey_UK]

Has anyone got any sayings involving a Tiger? (Good or Bad)

(from post #4):

ใจดีสู้เสือ - grab the bull by the horns; do the right thing

(the righteous man fights the tiger)

ชาติเสือไม่ทิ้งลาย - a leopard can't change his spots

(a tiger doesn't throw off its stripes)

หนีเสือปะจระเข้ - out of the frying pan, into the fire

(escape from the tiger, only to run into the crocodile)

หน้าเนี้ิอใจเสีอ - two-faced; hypocrite

(human face; heart of a tiger)

Just a brief sampling; must be dozens all-told...

Cheers for that.

I had a feeling that references to Tigers were not wholly positive............

[Neeranam]

??????????????? = sugar cane into the mouth of an elephant = a fait accompli

Always liked this one.

cervin

What's that in English?

[meadish_sweetball]

http://www.google.se/search?hl=en&q=de...earch&meta=