Why Do So Few Get Residency?

[CWMcMurray]

I have been in Thailand for three years on Non Im visas and I am considering applying for residency and I was wondering why do so few people go that route? I have looked at the requirements and while I understand that many would not be able to qualify, many others would but choose not to try?

Is it the fee? (95,000 for married people and twice that for unmarried) This is alot of money but if you are planning on staying long term it may even out in the end and isn't your peace of mind worth it?

Or is it that most people are not planning to stay for more than a few years?

I would be interested to find out if you have done it, how did it go? How painful was the process? Did you do it yourself or have a lawyer?

If you haven't done it then why not?

[Jingthing]

I am under the impression that this option is not available to those on retirement extensions. Isn't that true?

[Tywais]

If you haven't looked at this topic it may have some of the answers in it for you > http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=74654

I would venture a guess that a large number are here on retirement visas/extensions and as such not eligible. The next big problem is the amount of tax one has paid over the period here and it seems to be a big part of what they look for.

[Mid]

'tis the best of my limited knowledge that the application fee is non-refundable and further costs will be incurred if successful ...........................

my hand is up as being unable to afford to gamble 95 k .

[CWMcMurray]

From my research it seems that it is only a 7,000 baht gamble with the 95,000 due only if approved.

[kiakaha]

Alot of people are more than content to come and go every 90 days and have no problem getting 1 year multi entry non immigrant visas.

[Jingthing]

If it was available for those on retirement extensions, I would go for it. The language proficiency part would be hard though.

[samran]

like most things in life, supply and demand.

The supply side is that only 100 per nationality allowed every year, but there are no nationalites even getting anywhere near reaching that cap, so for the time being, that is not really an issue until we see people being rejected on the basis of a quota.

The otherside is the demand side, and there would be a number of factors:

- information: people don't know that the residency route exists, or those that do, think it is a hard and complex process that they don't bother. The fact is, that while it is a long process, it isn't particularly hard if you are prepared to go through the motions.

- eligibilty: As some have said, it isn't available to those on retirement visas. For others, it requires 3 years of consecutive extensions of your non-immigrant visa, and in most cases, a history of paying tax, so that counts out people who aren't tax payers in Thailand.

- desireablity: for most people, even if they are eligible, perceptions of the need for PR vary. For those who are happy to continually extend their annual basis as they always have, many simply don't see the value in residency. Others, who want to 'lock in' their stay in Thailand, see the benefits, and many use it as a stepping stone to citizenship.

- value: from a monetary perspective, annual extensions are cheaper than 200K (for those not married to Thai nationals) or 100K for those who are. For others, the value of residency in Thailand versus their home citizenship (usually in the west) means that residency in Thailand just doesn't compare. For others though, such as Indians and Chinese who tend be the largest categories of foreign residents, Thai residency compares more favourably.

[ignis]

If it was available for those on retirement extensions, I would go for it. The language proficiency part would be hard though.

Yep like wise I would go for it

[tamsom]

I think that residency is desireable. I am only on my second non-B visa extention, so I will have to wait. Problem? How long can I stay at my current school without going insane? However, if I qualify, I am going to apply because I want to. It is only 7 grand and the rest on approval. What irks me is that I need to get a re-entry permit if I travel outside Thai, and I need to report to my police station every year to have my book stamped. The language test is of no concern because I will study hard!

[frantic88]

Is That language requirement enforced? - that is the only thing which prevents me from going for this residency status. I'm just not smart enough

[digitele]

like most things in life, supply and demand.

The supply side is that only 100 per nationality allowed every year, but there are no nationalites even getting anywhere near reaching that cap, so for the time being, that is not really an issue until we see people being rejected on the basis of a quota.

The otherside is the demand side, and there would be a number of factors:

- information: people don't know that the residency route exists, or those that do, think it is a hard and complex process that they don't bother. The fact is, that while it is a long process, it isn't particularly hard if you are prepared to go through the motions.

- eligibilty: As some have said, it isn't available to those on retirement visas. For others, it requires 3 years of consecutive extensions of your non-immigrant visa, and in most cases, a history of paying tax, so that counts out people who aren't tax payers in Thailand.

- desireablity: for most people, even if they are eligible, perceptions of the need for PR vary. For those who are happy to continually extend their annual basis as they always have, many simply don't see the value in residency. Others, who want to 'lock in' their stay in Thailand, see the benefits, and many use it as a stepping stone to citizenship.

- value: from a monetary perspective, annual extensions are cheaper than 200K (for those not married to Thai nationals) or 100K for those who are. For others, the value of residency in Thailand versus their home citizenship (usually in the west) means that residency in Thailand just doesn't compare. For others though, such as Indians and Chinese who tend be the largest categories of foreign residents, Thai residency compares more favourably.

Very articulate. As usual.

[jackmuu]

Is That language requirement enforced? - that is the only thing which prevents me from going for this residency status. I'm just not smart enough

Give yourself a year of lessons and have the target and there is no reason why you couldn't, Thai language isn't as hard as some would have you believe.

[gorshar]

Unless there is some advantage to PR that I'm missing (other than paying the Thai entry fee to national parks) I don't see what there is to gain from it unless you never plan to travel outside the country. I'm in and out regularly and getting one-year multiple entries suits me fine. The process is far simpler and cheaper than trying to get a one year extension on a non-imm, the 90-day limit of stay is of no consequence because I'm never in country for even half that without having to leave for whatever reason, and I don't need to get a re-entry permit (and that PR still requires a re-entry permit utterly mystifies as it seems to make PR neither permanent nor reisdent - how can you be called a permanent resident if you have to get permission to come back????????).

I guess my question then is what really is the advantage of PR?

[Martin]

Is That language requirement enforced? - that is the only thing which prevents me from going for this residency status. I'm just not smart enough

Give yourself a year of lessons and have the target and there is no reason why you couldn't, Thai language isn't as hard as some would have you believe.

That's OK for those of you who are blessed with good ears.

For myself, I would like residency, but the language requirement scuppers me.

I am somewhat-considerably tone deaf, and have zilch aural memory. (I have to see a word written down to have any chance of remembering it.)

In ten years, I have only got as far as: "Phum mae poot Thai; phum poot Lao nid noy".

That is enough to get the Isaan speed cop laughing and on his way to letting me off, but it would go down like a lead balloon with some Bangkok offical!

[tijnebijn]

Alot of people are more than content to come and go every 90 days and have no problem getting 1 year multi entry non immigrant visas.

Ditto , its the same feeling by me !

[RedQualia]

Is That language requirement enforced? - that is the only thing which prevents me from going for this residency status. I'm just not smart enough

Give yourself a year of lessons and have the target and there is no reason why you couldn't, Thai language isn't as hard as some would have you believe.

That's OK for those of you who are blessed with good ears.

For myself, I would like residency, but the language requirement scuppers me.

I am somewhat-considerably tone deaf, and have zilch aural memory. (I have to see a word written down to have any chance of remembering it.)

In ten years, I have only got as far as: "Phum mae poot Thai; phum poot Lao nid noy".

That is enough to get the Isaan speed cop laughing and on his way to letting me off, but it would go down like a lead balloon with some Bangkok offical!

You are making excuses, my friend. Being tone deaf does not prevent you from understanding the concept of high, low, mid, rising and falling tones. Emphasis on vowel length is equally important with getting the tone somewhere close to correct. Also, Thais are usually more than willing to work with you on language. Er, most. I mean, if someone chooses not to understand you, then that's that. (Don't try to add them to your "friend" list.) But most will be more than happy to try and understand your efforts to speak/understand/read/write Thai.

If you're in Thailand, the onliest excuse for not doing your best to learn the language is that you just be too laaaaaaazzzyyy.

It's really quite a trip to learn the language. Really, that's the easy part, krup. Now, trying to think Thai... THAT is a challenge.

ขอใหคุณ้มีโชคดืครับ (not quite expressed as a Thai might say it, but what the hey...)

รัด

[kiwisr]

That's OK for those of you who are blessed with good ears.

For myself, I would like residency, but the language requirement scuppers me.

I am somewhat-considerably tone deaf, and have zilch aural memory. (I have to see a word written down to have any chance of remembering it.)

I don't think that tones are that important in reality, it may not sound perfect, but 99% of the time when you say a sentence the word will be taken in context.

Also the best way to learn Thai is to see it written down, personally I always have to see the word written down in Thai script to fully understand how it is pronounced.

[RAZZELL]

I guess my question then is what really is the advantage of PR?

Mine too..

Can anyone clarify the advantages?

RAZZ

[Brew]

[qote] Can anyone clarify the advantages?

The frequent changes of the visa laws.

Do you know if you will qualify for an extension next year?

[Gary A]

If I were eligible, there's no financial incentive to go through the hassle of trying to get a PR. I have a legal Thai wife and have always used the retirement option. If that changes, I'll go with the support option.

[grtaylor]

If I were eligible, there's no financial incentive to go through the hassle of trying to get a PR. I have a legal Thai wife and have always used the retirement option. If that changes, I'll go with the support option.

When people ask me why I have applied, I find it quite difficult to reply. Its not for financial reasons, for sure, but to put the reason into words is hard. I think it boils down to that nastily worded stamp in my passport, which for 17 years has said "permitted to remain until . . . . ".

Having seen the difference just having a Thai driving licence makes to many Thais (i.e. showing that you're not a tourist), such as getting onto Koh Samet for 40 Baht instaed of 400, I feel that PR would be a bigger step in the direction of being "accepted" rather than just "permitted".

G

Edited August 19, 2007 by grtaylor

[steve73]

Unless there is some advantage to PR that I'm missing (other than paying the Thai entry fee to national parks) I don't see what there is to gain from it unless you never plan to travel outside the country. I'm in and out regularly and getting one-year multiple entries suits me fine. The process is far simpler and cheaper than trying to get a one year extension on a non-imm, the 90-day limit of stay is of no consequence because I'm never in country for even half that without having to leave for whatever reason, and I don't need to get a re-entry permit (and that PR still requires a re-entry permit utterly mystifies as it seems to make PR neither permanent nor reisdent - how can you be called a permanent resident if you have to get permission to come back????????).

I guess my question then is what really is the advantage of PR?

Slightly off-topic, but I was told that you can get Thai prices to national parks if you have a Thai Driving licence. I got two on my last visit (110 bt for car & 60 for motorbike), but must admit I havn't tried using them yet. They are provisional only (1year) but can be upgraded to a 5 year when they expire. Just need to get proof of address from the Immigration office. I'm on a multi entry non imm "O" visa, so the address proof was only valid until my last enrty "valid til" date, but the licenceis OK for a year.... Main reason for getting them though isto keep theboys in brown happy, especially upcountry, and it saves me needing to carry my passport everywhere.

[Martin]

Again, verging towards off-topic, I find that it pays to wear a yellow shirt, or even just the associated cap.

On my last visit to Bangkok, so dressed, the touts at Hua Lampong station left me alone, and I could stroll through Nana and not get called "Hansum Man".

[highdiver]

I guess my question then is what really is the advantage of PR?

Mine too..

Can anyone clarify the advantages?

RAZZ

Advantages of Permanent Residence in Thailand

There are a number of advantages to holding permanent resident status in Thailand:

It allows the holder to live permanently in Thailand, with no requirement to apply for an extension of temporary stay.

In addition to the permanent residence book, an alien registration book will be issued, which is the equivalent of the ID card held by Thais.

A permanent resident can have his/her name included on a house registration document.

Obtaining a work permit is easier for a permanent resident than for a non-resident, but you still need to have a work permit if working.

A permanent resident also has a number of other privileges such as, for example, being able to:

(a) buy a condominium without being required to transfer money from abroad;

( apply for naturalization in accordance with the law concerned;

© have Thai nationality granted to children who are born in Thailand;

(d) become a director of a public company; and

(e) apply for an extension of stay or permanent residence for non-Thai family members.

more info in the Thai visa web site

[summers]

Is That language requirement enforced? - that is the only thing which prevents me from going for this residency status. I'm just not smart enough

Give yourself a year of lessons and have the target and there is no reason why you couldn't, Thai language isn't as hard as some would have you believe.

That's OK for those of you who are blessed with good ears.

For myself, I would like residency, but the language requirement scuppers me.

I am somewhat-considerably tone deaf, and have zilch aural memory. (I have to see a word written down to have any chance of remembering it.)

In ten years, I have only got as far as: "Phum mae poot Thai; phum poot Lao nid noy".

That is enough to get the Isaan speed cop laughing and on his way to letting me off, but it would go down like a lead balloon with some Bangkok offical!

I love it! Here in Surin, though, it would have to be more like " Phom mai pood Thai, Pood Khmer nid noi Baat!"

[Arkady]

Got it in the 90s before the price shot up. It was quite a tedious process getting all the documentation together and doing all the interviews but I think it was worth it. Since I applied many farangs have tried to make an aggressive case that it was totally pointless because they always expected to have work permits with large companies who could handle the renewals for them. Then I watched several of them go through the process of losing their jobs in the financial crisis and being non-persons unable to buy their own car or mobile phone after the company asked for them back and having to do visa runs to stay in Thailand. Later several people wanted to apply for PR but found the price had gone up or that they no longer qualified due a broken employment record. I also went through some periods without working and was glad to avoid all that hassle. Now I have a work permit and it is much easier to get one as a PR (admittedly its stupid that you need one at all) as you don't have to go to immigration and they are the peple that put all the aggro into work permit applications, not the Labor Ministry. I think it may also be only Immigration that causes trouble for companies without enough profit renewing work permits. As a PR you also don't need any Thai employees to get a work permit (another Immigration requirement to get the 12 month extensive). For any one who is qualified, can afford PR and thinks they might want to be here long term and retire here, it is definitely worth the money and hassle in my opinion. I certainly won't want to be messing around with one year retirement visas and worrying about the bank deposit requirement when the time comes. Oh and you can wait in the Thai queue at Immigration and smugly show your Resident's book when people tell you to go and wait in the foreigners' queue. The acid test is whether you would want to stay in Thailand, if you lost your job or retired.

[Arkady]

Is That language requirement enforced? - that is the only thing which prevents me from going for this residency status. I'm just not smart enough

It was brought in by the clean living foreign hater, Purachai, who owns his own landed property in New Zealand bought on his policeman's and academic's savings and sent his kids to Kiwi private schools. It is definitely enforced but is apparently very easy. Immigration was unhappy about the requirement, so they just take the p*** out of it. It is multiple choice and the answers are obvious to any one with the most rudimentary knowledge of Thai who is not a complete moron. They video tape the tests to prove no corruption is involved in the virtually 100% pass rates! A friend who definitely cannot speak more than a few words of mangled Thai passed it with no trouble.

[grtaylor]

As a PR you also don't need any Thai employees to get a work permit (another Immigration requirement to get the 12 month extensive).

I'd like to know more details about this, as I wasn't aware of it. What are the implications for starting a company here as a PR?

Thanks,

G

[themuse1969]

While this topic is of interest to me.....I haven't made my first "tourist" visit yet! But, I am coming for 2 reasons: (1) to scope for the possibility of retiring in Thailand and (2) to pursue a love interest. Pretty typical reasons I expect.

What is the pathway to residency if marrying a Thai national? What is the possibility for marrying a Thai national and living in a neighboring country?