Thai Couple Being Exploited In The Uk

[Charma]

I am posting to get some views/ advice from members about the following:

Over the past three or four months we have got to know a young Thai couple who live near us in the UK and work in a local Thai restaurant. They have recently disclosed to us a serious personal predicament as they feel they can now trust us and they do not know what to do.

It transpires that they came to the UK about 18 months ago having paid 300,00 baht to some sort of employment agency in Thailand, who promised them work permits and good paid jobs in the UK. They borrowed the money against family land in the hope that they could come to the UK and send money back.

They came over here and initially worked in the hotel industry on very low wages but with live-in accommodation. After deductions, they had barely enough to live on let alone start to pay off the loan back in Thailand. They continued working as they were told that after one year, they would be free to get better paid jobs elsewhere.

The year passed, their work permits lapsed and the hotel dismissed them! They then got a job with this Thai restaurant, again with tied accommodation. I have found out that they were being paid £2.50 per hour for each working 66 hours a week! They were even having accommodation bills deducted from this, so again they could barely afford to feed themselves. When they asked about earning more so that they could start paying the loan, they again were told to pack their bags. They are now staying with a friend and helping out in their pub for free (well for a room I guess).

I know some may see them as illegal immigrants who should be deported, but I just see a nice hard working young couple who have been cheated, lied to and are now being exploited by (Thai) businesses over here who know they cannot complain.

If they go back to Thailand, they cannot pay back the loan and their families will be homeless. If they stay here, they will effectively remain as slaves, scraping to pay off a loan they cannot really afford.

Any ideas will be gratefully received.

[britmaveric]

Best course of action is to go home.

[taxexile]

chances are they dont have the money to get home.

it should be reported to the police , who , if the facts are true as stated and can be proven , will prosecute the thais who were taking advantage of this couple.

as illegal immigrants , they will not suffer in the way of punishment , and will be deported eventually and probably have their fare home paid for by the long suffering british taxpayer.

[londonthai]

they should get back to the agency and ask to extend their work permit, give better jobs or money back.

in my private opinion working in a thai restaurant wasn't a bad deal (£2.5 x 66h=£165 minus £50 accommodation minus £20 food). Still they would be able to save around £100/week.

maybe you should convince pub owners to start paying for the work

[lazeeboy]

chances are they dont have the money to get home.

it should be reported to the police , who , if the facts are true as stated and can be proven , will prosecute the thais who were taking advantage of this couple.

as illegal immigrants , they will not suffer in the way of punishment , and will be deported eventually and probably have their fare home paid for by the long suffering british taxpayer.

are you sure there not scamming you ? if they have been there over a year and not paid there loan off then they have already lost there land in thailand anyway.........

[Charma]

they should get back to the agency and ask to extend their work permit, give better jobs or money back.

in my private opinion working in a thai restaurant wasn't a bad deal (£2.5 x 66h=£165 minus £50 accommodation minus £20 food). Still they would be able to save around £100/week.

maybe you should convince pub owners to start paying for the work

I think that they would have stayed, but they were not given the option. This Thai restaurant makes A LOT of money so I think they were totally exploiting this couple. They even made them pay all utility bills and a portion of the council tax! They have amanged to pay off some of the loan, but it is very expensive living over here. I am sure they may find some more work, but chances are it will be a company that wants to exploit them further.

The agency that brought them here does not want to know.

I am sure that they will get their air fares paid if they are deported - but they will lose their family land.

I do not think I am being scammed as they have not asked us for anything at all.

[bendix]

Do they speak English?

I know a very lovely English country pub in Norfolk which is looking to hire a Thai couple who can cook both Thai and English food 5-6 nights a week. I can personally vouch for the landlord. My understanding is that the guy will pay the couple up to a thousand pounds a month each and give free board and lodging.

Perhaps the OP could PM me and I'll pass on the details.

[markr]

An unfortunate situation

I think they should cut there losses and hand them selves in, as Tax says, they will get 'looked after' untill deported and then sent home at the cost of the taxpayer.

Mark

[roietjimmy]

Do they speak English?

I know a very lovely English country pub in Norfolk which is looking to hire a Thai couple who can cook both Thai and English food 5-6 nights a week. I can personally vouch for the landlord. My understanding is that the guy will pay the couple up to a thousand pounds a month each and give free board and lodging.

Perhaps the OP could PM me and I'll pass on the details.

Wonderful offer. Hope it works out for them.

Not sure what their visa status is but hope the OP can explain or get sorted in the UK.

[ColPyat]

Do they speak English?

I know a very lovely English country pub in Norfolk which is looking to hire a Thai couple who can cook both Thai and English food 5-6 nights a week. I can personally vouch for the landlord. My understanding is that the guy will pay the couple up to a thousand pounds a month each and give free board and lodging.

Perhaps the OP could PM me and I'll pass on the details.

That would be the best solution - somebody offering them or connecting them to a real job.

[Charma]

Do they speak English?

I know a very lovely English country pub in Norfolk which is looking to hire a Thai couple who can cook both Thai and English food 5-6 nights a week. I can personally vouch for the landlord. My understanding is that the guy will pay the couple up to a thousand pounds a month each and give free board and lodging.

Perhaps the OP could PM me and I'll pass on the details.

They both speak a little English. How will they view the work permit/visa situation? I will PM you.

[colino]

its a sad fact of life not just for thais but also for many indians and chinese that end up being conned into paying large sums of money to an agency with promise's that the streets are paved with gold when the truth is they get ripped off in the uk working in the restaurant or hotel trade , most tend to be shunted on to other restaurant's around the country every few months and stay in perminent debt

Edited August 20, 2007 by colino

[seonai]

Good luck for them. Do thet know about the Thai Temple in London? They can talk to the monks and important embassy people there if they need help. PM if you want the number. You should also get this in to the British and Thai press imo

[the gent]

Do they speak English?

I know a very lovely English country pub in Norfolk which is looking to hire a Thai couple who can cook both Thai and English food 5-6 nights a week. I can personally vouch for the landlord. My understanding is that the guy will pay the couple up to a thousand pounds a month each and give free board and lodging.

Perhaps the OP could PM me and I'll pass on the details.

Presumably your chum will also be happy to pay the 10,000 GBP penalty he will receive if the couple are encountered working illegally in his boozer and he cannot produce a prescribed defence acceptable to the authorities? Lax enforcement in prohibiting illegal employment is gradually receding and the penalties are shortly to be increased and may involve imprisonment for up to 2 years and/or a fine.

I can well understand the tea and sympathy currently on offer but must confess to some surprise that you the hard nosed Bendix has also succumbed to the siren call of sentiment.

Mellowing in anticipation of your retirement perhaps ?

[mrtoad]

There first point of call, should be HM Revenue and Customs. They are responsible for the enforcement of the minimum working wage, which I understand is around 6 pounds per hour. They will be able to enforce the payment of wages owed from there previous owner as they were , from what you have divulged on a work permit. So, if they were working a certain amunt of hours then the recompnece will be worked out on hours worked in relation to the min wage. They may well be owed a sinificant amount of money, which in turn will certainly hep them out of the prediciment that they now find them in.

My understanding, is that WP's can only be issued by companies paying in excess of the minimum wage. Excuse me for the lack of clear details, as it is over 3 years since I was involved in recruiting staff from overseas for several companies back in the UK in respect of the exact details of WP's and pay. I am sure that thescouser wilol be able to clarify that.

Hope that it works out for them

[mrtoad]

Do they speak English?

I know a very lovely English country pub in Norfolk which is looking to hire a Thai couple who can cook both Thai and English food 5-6 nights a week. I can personally vouch for the landlord. My understanding is that the guy will pay the couple up to a thousand pounds a month each and give free board and lodging.

Perhaps the OP could PM me and I'll pass on the details.

Presumably your chum will also be happy to pay the 10,000 GBP penalty he will receive if the couple are encountered working illegally in his boozer and he cannot produce a prescribed defence acceptable to the authorities? Lax enforcement in prohibiting illegal employment is gradually receding and the penalties are shortly to be increased and may involve imprisonment for up to 2 years and/or a fine.

I can well understand the tea and sympathy currently on offer but must confess to some surprise that you the hard nosed Bendix has also succumbed to the siren call of sentiment.

Mellowing in anticipation of your retirement perhaps ?

I think that this type of employment would probably meet the requirements in monetary value to obtain a work permit, providing that the contract is worded in the correct way and that they have the relevant credentials. I don't think that Bendix for one moment is advocating working illegaly, rather offering a possible avenue to explore. Which he should be commeded for, rather than condemed as going soft.

[TEFLMike]

I am posting to get some views/ advice from members about the following:

Over the past three or four months we have got to know a young Thai couple who live near us in the UK and work in a local Thai restaurant. They have recently disclosed to us a serious personal predicament as they feel they can now trust us and they do not know what to do.

It transpires that they came to the UK about 18 months ago having paid 300,00 baht to some sort of employment agency in Thailand, who promised them work permits and good paid jobs in the UK. They borrowed the money against family land in the hope that they could come to the UK and send money back.

They came over here and initially worked in the hotel industry on very low wages but with live-in accommodation. After deductions, they had barely enough to live on let alone start to pay off the loan back in Thailand. They continued working as they were told that after one year, they would be free to get better paid jobs elsewhere.

The year passed, their work permits lapsed and the hotel dismissed them! They then got a job with this Thai restaurant, again with tied accommodation. I have found out that they were being paid £2.50 per hour for each working 66 hours a week! They were even having accommodation bills deducted from this, so again they could barely afford to feed themselves. When they asked about earning more so that they could start paying the loan, they again were told to pack their bags. They are now staying with a friend and helping out in their pub for free (well for a room I guess).

I know some may see them as illegal immigrants who should be deported, but I just see a nice hard working young couple who have been cheated, lied to and are now being exploited by (Thai) businesses over here who know they cannot complain.

If they go back to Thailand, they cannot pay back the loan and their families will be homeless. If they stay here, they will effectively remain as slaves, scraping to pay off a loan they cannot really afford.

Any ideas will be gratefully received.

Let's remember. Britain is no less guilty....... of EXPLOITATION

[the gent]

I rather think from the OP the immigration status of the couple has been made abundantly clear and in those circumstances they are toast. Quite simply, regularising their position is not an option and talk of work permits at this stage is delusional.

Tempted though I am, this is probably not the best thread to dwell upon the ethics of cheap illegal migrant labour supplanting indigenous UK workers who are already squeezed by the hordes of cheap legal migrants.

Edited August 20, 2007 by the gent

[mrtoad]

I rather think from the OP the immigration status of the couple has been made abundantly clear and in those circumstances they are toast. Quite simply, regularising their position is not an option and talk of work permits at this stage is delusional.

Tempted though I am, this is probably not the best thread to dwell upon the ethics of cheap illegal migrant labour supplanting indigenous UK workers who are already sqeezed by the hordes of cheap legal migrants.

Yes, you are correct on all of those points. However, they should in theory still be entitled to some form of recompence under employment law if they have not been paid according to the law. I still, suggest that HMRC should be their first point of call, and then they can take it from there. They may even find HMRC an unlikely ally.

Edited August 20, 2007 by mrtoad

[t.s]

I can well understand the tea and sympathy currently on offer but must confess to some surprise that you the hard nosed Bendix has also succumbed to the siren call of sentiment.

Mellowing in anticipation of your retirement perhaps ?

or calling a bluff. it all depends on whether or not he gets the pm, and what he does with the information. if it does actually work out, well done

either way, it is all hypothetical at this point. why not suspend disbelief? it could result in some very entertaining reading.

what a pleasant change that would be.

Edited August 20, 2007 by t.s

[the gent]

I should imagine an approach to the HMRC would certainly precipitate an early resolution to their predicament, at least in terms of their current location.

[mrtoad]

I should imagine an approach to the HMRC would certainly precipitate an early resolution to their predicament, at least in terms of their current location.

Stranger things have happened, but their inital problems with payment started on their initial work placement which was legal.

I think none of us can say for sure what is the best option, but a trip to the local citizens advice bureau

http://www.adviceguide.org.uk/

may be a good option.

[A_Traveller]

Do they speak English?

I know a very lovely English country pub in Norfolk which is looking to hire a Thai couple who can cook both Thai and English food 5-6 nights a week. I can personally vouch for the landlord. My understanding is that the guy will pay the couple up to a thousand pounds a month each and give free board and lodging. ...

500 quid each a week for a couple of unqualified cooks?

Is your friend mad?

Shouldn't that be 250 each or 500 for the couple per week {allowing for rounding}?

Friend might be better at maths

Regards

[seonai]

Surely Mr Toad is right. I mean the UK has facilities to help people like this ???

[Jersey_UK]

Surely Mr Toad is right. I mean the UK has facilities to help people like this ???

Maybe suggest they do a Visa run?

In practical legal terms the wife would probably be better off getting caught in a Knocking Shop and claiming to have been "trafficked"........I think they have kinda <deleted> themselves for any further WP by overstaying.

I would love the UK to get serious with the EMPLOYERS of Illegal workers, but just no political will to do so.........

If I was in their shoes the first thing to do is learn the local lingo (presumably English? ) - and get "Legal" in appearances at least so they can start working for proper money, even if minimum wage.

[endure]

they should get back to the agency and ask to extend their work permit, give better jobs or money back.

in my private opinion working in a thai restaurant wasn't a bad deal (£2.5 x 66h=£165 minus £50 accommodation minus £20 food). Still they would be able to save around £100/week.

Apart from the fact that the minimum wage is £5.35 an hour.

[endure]

Do they speak English?

I know a very lovely English country pub in Norfolk which is looking to hire a Thai couple who can cook both Thai and English food 5-6 nights a week. I can personally vouch for the landlord. My understanding is that the guy will pay the couple up to a thousand pounds a month each and give free board and lodging. ...

500 quid each a week for a couple of unqualified cooks?

Is your friend mad?

Shouldn't that be 250 each or 500 for the couple per week {allowing for rounding}?

Friend might be better at maths

Regards

The going rate for a 2nd cook in a provincial Thai restaurant is around £250 a week in the hand (after tax, NI etc.) with food & lodgings supplied free.

[mrtoad]

they should get back to the agency and ask to extend their work permit, give better jobs or money back.

in my private opinion working in a thai restaurant wasn't a bad deal (£2.5 x 66h=£165 minus £50 accommodation minus £20 food). Still they would be able to save around £100/week.

Apart from the fact that the minimum wage is £5.35 an hour.

Yes, and deductions are illegal. Min wage would still need to be 5.35 x 66. Anything under that means they can report their employer who will then be investigated, and if found to be in breach will have to pay the unpaid amount to the employee.

Edited August 20, 2007 by mrtoad

[Charma]

A lot of replies here - thanks. Now to answer a few:

they should get back to the agency and ask to extend their work permit, give better jobs or money back.

in my private opinion working in a thai restaurant wasn't a bad deal (£2.5 x 66h=£165 minus £50 accommodation minus £20 food). Still they would be able to save around £100/week.

Apart from the fact that the minimum wage is £5.35 an hour.

Yes, and deductions are illegal. Min wage would still need to be 5.35 x 66. Anything under that means they can report their employer who will then be investigated, and if found to be in breach will have to pay the unpaid amount to the employee.

I actually investigated the reporting route - there is a helpline and even an oline form for this. Ultimately a claim for minimum wage ends up at an employemnt tribunal and then a civil court if they still don't pay up. When they told me their WP had expired, it became clear that this option was not so good for them.

Yes the minimum wage is £5.35 and employers can only reduce this by £29 per week to allow for accomodation.

I can well understand the tea and sympathy currently on offer but must confess to some surprise that you the hard nosed Bendix has also succumbed to the siren call of sentiment.

Mellowing in anticipation of your retirement perhaps ?

I can understand your point entirely. I do not really want to facilitate illegal employment. I do not also feel the need to call the authorities and turn them in. I just see two people who made a big mistake and are trying to work their way out of it. I posted here because of this dilemma and if there is some good that will come of it I will be very happy.

Let's remember. Britain is no less guilty....... of EXPLOITATION

The businesses that are exploiting them are all UK businesses, owned by people of Thai origin. I am sure there are plenty of indiginous britons that would exploit them as well..or were you thinking more from an historical/national perspective?

Good luck for them. Do thet know about the Thai Temple in London? They can talk to the monks and important embassy people there if they need help. PM if you want the number. You should also get this in to the British and Thai press imo

I will mention the temple when I speak with them. I am not sure if they have sought advice there yet. I have also mentioned the citizens advice bureau - husband is a little nervous of officialdom, even though I assured him that they were a non government charity. Likewise the press is not a good idea at present. If and when they go back, I may make it a personal mission to shop the restaurant involved in all of this.

I think I have responded to most points. Forgive me if I have missed anything, but the TV connection seems very slow tonight. Thanks everyone for the suggestions. If anyone knows about the possibility they may have of changing an expired WP into a live one, perhaps with an employer as sponsor, I would be most interested.

Bendix - I have PM'd you

[endure]

I'm going to take the liberty of moving this to the visa section. Scouse might have some useful advice on the visa implications.