Phi Phi Island Ferry Capsizes In Krabi

[Richard W]

And WHO sets the standards? Apparently the farang, isn't it? Just because in USA or any european country people would fall of the buses in mass if the bus had no doors automatically means that Thailand is below standard.

How glad are we that Thais are intelligent enough to know that an open door does not mean that you can just walk out without prior use of a few braincells and later sue whoever but not yourself if you crashed your nose on the concrete.

I don't know how often people are flung from buses going round corners in Bangkok, but I can remember a conductor grabbing a Thai by the shirt to stop him being flung from the bus as it went round a corner. After that I made it a point when hanging on to a handhold by the door to position myself to stop those too short to use them from being flung out. Now this was ten years ago, and the buses have probably improved and Thais are getting taller.

[OnPhiPhi]

I was on the Phi Phi - Phuket morning ferry three weeks ago, on the smallest Chao Koh boat. The sea was pretty rough and unlike the other passengers, the first thing I did was go downstairs and find a lifejacket for me and my wife, which we clutched for the whole journey.

The ferry was totally overcrowded, and the vast majority of people (including me) - and all their luggage - were on the roof, adding several tons above the centre of gravity. There may have been enough lifejackets for a properly loaded ferry, but in no way at all were there enough for everyone on that boat. Since there were high seas and a lot of spray to port, the rooftop passengers all moved to starboard, causing the ferry to list permanently to about 10 degrees on flat water, but way more when the swells hit. A larger swell would have tipped us over.

Add to that the creaking and twisting of the ancient old tub, and you've got a boat that doesn't appear seaworthy, with lax safety applied, and not enough safety equipment.

I'm not ashamed to admit that we were shitting ourselves. I had all our documentation in a waterproof dive bag wrapped around my body, and our hearts were in our mouths until we got into the lee of Rassada.

When we got off the boat we both said two things: "we are never getting a Chao Koh boat ever again" and "this is an accident waiting to happen". Sure enough, a ferry capsized two weeks later. Not the same one, and not caused by overcrowding, but still a worry regarding safety and standards. Andaman Wave Master caught fire a few months ago too.

The post earlier that the marine police check on everyone and their lifejackets before sailing seems a trifle optimistic. I've never seen them. I sincerely hope the authorities start enforcing the sensible rules that they have set, because at the moment there is little evidence of any regard for safety at all. Some boats are unseaworthy, many are overloaded, and overloaded above the centre of gravity, and few have enough lifejackets. This won't be the last, either. Tousim is going to suffer badly if this carries on.

It's the PP Family big boat for me, from now on.

[NBT TV Phuket]

Special Vox Pop - Opinions on passenger boat safety following 2 incidents near Phi Phi Island

To see or download mini-video, go to http://www.thaisnews.com/news_detail.php?newsid=214548

Special/Vox Pop for Andaman News TV11 (VHF dial) 8.30am + Radio Thailand FM90.5 at 6pm from Phuket City, both broadcast to Phang Nga, Krabi & Phuket provinces, & Mazz Radio FM108 Phuket & maybe later on Phuket Cable TV channel 1, Thursday 23 August 2007 & www.ThaisNews.com

The monsoon season in the Andaman brings rain and wind to the region, making the weather conditions rough, especially out at sea. Weather forecasts have been instructing small boats to refrain from traveling out in such conditions, yet despite them, it seems that some did not take such warnings seriously.

Following two incidents, of a boat from Krabi to Phi Phi Island that capsized and another small speed boat that requested assistance after they departed Phi Phi Island en route back to Phuket on Tuesday evening, it should be noted that both the boats were chartered boats and not ferry boats, and while ferry services may take precautions, what of the other boat services?

The incidents have prompted me to come out and observe the atmosphere at Ratsada Pier in Phuket…

The boats overall safety standards, which would include postponing a boat trip if the weather conditions weren’t safe, are put into question, and even if these precautions are being taken with the larger passenger boats, who’s to say what will happen if the speed boat operator agrees to take the trip?

This is the atmosphere at Ratsada pier which was busy in the afternoon where passengers are returning from their trips from out-lying islands like Phi Phi, Ratcha Yai, and Kho Yao.

The manager of Ratsada Pier Mr. Prasit Sakunlink,

informs us that he receives a weather report everyday, but it is up to boat operators to make the journey or not. In case of distress the boat would radio nearby boats for assistance where they have quite a large network of boats at sea and on-shore rescue boats at the port .

Let’s find out what passengers think about safety procedures by boat operators:

Italian/Canadian/American tourists

It seems the tourists are aware and feel safe if basic safety measures are taken. Having an adequate amount of life saving devices on board then seems to be a job for the boat operators to keep in check, while Mr. Sakunlink goes on to say that officials are strict about the number of passengers per boat, while overcrowding is definitely forbidden as the number of passengers per boat is fixed and checked on a daily basis, as are the number of life jackets on board per person.

[Mid]

Weather forecasts have been instructing small boats to refrain from traveling out in such conditions, yet despite them, it seems that some did not take such warnings seriously

the prosecution rests .....................

[DamianMavis]

Well said nyles - I was thinking exactly the same thing! But you know, it's not new, racial prejudice of this type has been going on ever since the West discovered the East. Yet, if only these critics could see that their constant critcisms only really exposes their own lack of humility - if not humanity. If you notice, the main critics seem to be the beer-swilling, testosterone-charged xenophobic cranks - not your average holidaymaker or awestruck visitor - nor the world-travelled expats who have assimiated themselves into Thai culture to their own benefit as well as that of their Thai friends. Those brainless critics, whose over-riding purile wish is to attempt to impose their own questionable morals and customs onto a proud people (who need absolutely no lessons from the West on how to run their own country) are the worst possible ambassadors the West has and the sooner they are shut up the better for everyone - including themselves. The only problem with Thais as I see them - and their main weakness - is that they are, if anything, far TOO tolerant of foulmouthed farangs and their sneering comments and general rudenesses.

What a curates egg of a post!

Criticising aspects of Thai life does not amount to racism. The superior attitude of many Orientals towards Westerners does. Thai racism and misplaced ideas of superiority gives rise to the arrogance that is the root cause of the problems in the southern provinces. If the hill tribes in the far north got their act together to fight injustice and maladministration in their corner of the country, Thailand could face the problem of dealing with an uprising at each end. On my visits to Cambodia and Laos I have been aware of the contempt that many hold for Thailand on account of such arrogance.

You need to understand that nothing in this world would have been improved upon unless somebody gave birth to a better conception or practice. Very often that idea was the child of a legitimate complaint. We, from the first world, are not content with mediocrity and our technological superiority and standard of living is a result of this. The majority of Thais, it seems to me, live in constant fear and have neither the originality, thought processes nor courage to stand against the status quo. It seems that everybody is scared of 'big boss' who in turn is scared of his 'big boss' and the whole thing snowballs into the oligarchy that is Thailand. Furthermore since everybody is so concerned with 'face', nobody admits to an error so locals see little point in complaining - or even suggesting better ways of doing things.

I have lived in Thailand for some time now, I have a wonderful Thai wife and rejoice in the warmth and brotherhood of my Thai family. They no longer survive on handouts and such work as they could find. No longer does their roof leak, no longer do they go to bed hungry or live hand to mouth, their medical needs are taken care of and the children are gaining the benefits of full time education. I have ensured that they will not require a calculator to perform simple arithmetic and their English vocabulary grows with time . My family acknowledge that I have done more for them than several Thai Governments. I claim to have made an investment in Thailand and accordingly demand a voice to be heard. I was born free, I grew up during a war that Britain and its allies fought at great sacrifice to guarantee freedom for myself and others. I hold that freedom dear and if a few Thais get upset when I exercise my preogative to complain or make adverse comment, then so be it.

This is not to say that there isn't plenty about Thailand that agrees with me, and other farangs, since quite obviously this is not the case. However equally obviously Thailand is not perfect and we are not blind nor inclined to obeisance. In my book the lack of criticism indicates self satisfaction and complacency and the slippery slope beckons. Perhaps you will find it within yourselves to ask the true reasons for any criticism and seek clarification and,hopefully, possible alternatives. I suggest that that is a more positive thing to do, especially for those subject to misplaced nationalistic emotional outbursts.

I have not hitherto noticed that most of the critics are beer swilling, xenophobic cranks. I venture that few of that ilk come to this board. To offer comment indicates to me a concern and a caring attitude towards Thailand whereas those you describe couldn't really give a pig's butt for the country. Their concerns centre on the price of their favourite tipple and cigarettes, the availability of a comely lass and spectacles that used to be sport but no longer are. Not too different from many Thai men maybe. The converse of love isn't hate, it is indifference. Would you prefer that we farangs become indifferent to appease your tendency to jingoism? The gross characters to whom you attribute a degree of interest in Thailand are indeed an embarressment to any sentient being and I for one would welcome their removal from the scene. Perhaps if what attracted them to Thailand were to be removed, they would move on to despoil somewhere else. I understand that Cambodia and Vietnam would welcome lots of lovely hard foreign currency.

I have to assume that you were well into your cups to write such drivel about morals and the ability to govern a country. Are you suggesting that the published results of a recently conducted survey which stated that over 60% of Thai women had admitted sleeping with men for pecuniary or career advantage was way off beam? So all elections are not rigged and subject to the bribery of ignorant peasants who wouldn't know democracy if it bit them in the butt? That the police do not practice extortion? How many governments and coups has Thailand experienced in recent years? I suggest that to echo sentiments of clean government and high moral standards in the same breath as Thailand would invite much ribaldry. As for being proud many would hold the view that Thailand can boast of some of the most beautiful women in the world, being beautiful both inside and out, and producing a handful for excellent boxers at the lighter weights. Granted Thailand exports more rice than any other country but is nowhere as efficient in growing the cereal as neighbouring countries are whose yields per acre are far higher. Hardly a success story is it?

Right on man, you're my new hero.

Damian

[digitele]

Phi Phi Island Ferry Capsizes In Krabi, 42 people onboard

[robint]

i would never go on a thai boat without my own personal lifejacket (they are about 1500 baht big c) not the most professional but far better than nothing

[meemiathai]

i would never go on a thai boat without my own personal lifejacket (they are about 1500 baht big c) not the most professional but far better than nothing

You can't swim?

[Bagwan]

i would never go on a thai boat without my own personal lifejacket (they are about 1500 baht big c) not the most professional but far better than nothing

You can't swim?

Not everybody is a Captain Webb lookalike. How many here can swim a few miles in choppy seas - and maybe have family or friends to take care of?

[Payboy]

i would never go on a thai boat without my own personal lifejacket (they are about 1500 baht big c) not the most professional but far better than nothing

You can't swim?

as in swimmers have never ever drowned ....?

[JimmyCA]

ive seen no thai bashing on this thread , only justified comments on the appaling lack of safety awareness and implementation of standards regarding the welfare of the travelling public in thailand.

it seems as if this hired boat was up to standard and thankfully so.

much of the daily transportation used by the general public , by road and sea , in this country is not up to standard.

that is a fact , and to mention it is not thai bashing.

And WHO sets the standards? Apparently the farang, isn't it? Just because in USA or any european country people would fall of the buses in mass if the bus had no doors automatically means that Thailand is below standard.

How glad are we that Thais are intelligent enough to know that an open door does not mean that you can just walk out without prior use of a few braincells and later sue whoever but not yourself if you crashed your nose on the concrete.

No matter whether you agree with the above or not, one thing is for sure: If it comes to tolerance, farangs are far below Thai standards.

Yes, first world develops the standards based on experience with similar happenings. If they care to the third world copies, if not they do without or possibly reinvent the wheel someday.

Some of your other comments are pattayababbel

[ThaiTerry]

Does anyone know the law concerning life jackets on a private boat in Thailand?

[peterdk]

Does anyone know the law concerning life jackets on a private boat in Thailand?

I am quite sure, that a boat should carry life jackets up to the capacity of the boat.

But it is really more an insurance thing too.

For instance you wont get an insurance to cover a long deep water trip, if you dont have life jackets designed for longer times afloat and life rafts.

So the best thing is actually to ask your insurance company.

[Soutpeel]

Ferry Capsizes In Thailand, All 42 Passengers Safe

BANGKOK: -- A passenger ferry carrying 42 people capsized off southern Thailand Tuesday, but rescuers saved all the passengers, it was reported. The ferry was taking a group of local villagers to the resort island of Phi Phi when the incident occurred.

Police Col. Somphob Kantasee said, "A ferry, which had a capacity of up to 100 people, sank when a wave hit the boat during a storm."

Ferry capsizes in Thailand

BANGKOK: -- Dozens of people were missing after a boat capsized and sank Tuesday near a Thai resort island, police said.

The boat, carrying about a hundred passengers and crew, capsized after it faced strong currents and wind in the Andaman sea about 40 kilometers (24 miles) from mainland Krabi province, 650 kilometers (400 miles) south of Bangkok, said police Col. Sompob Kantasee

So which of these reports of the same incident do you suppose is factual????

Its always an adventure to read the news as reported by thais.....

It's always an adventure to read the anti-thai prejudices on thaivisa, but not a good one. Can anyone tell me what all of those negative farangs are doing in Thailand?

Well said nyles - I was thinking exactly the same thing! But you know, it's not new, racial prejudice of this type has been going on ever since the West discovered the East. Yet, if only these critics could see that their constant critcisms only really exposes their own lack of humility - if not humanity. If you notice, the main critics seem to be the beer-swilling, testosterone-charged xenophobic cranks - not your average holidaymaker or awestruck visitor - nor the world-travelled expats who have assimiated themselves into Thai culture to their own benefit as well as that of their Thai friends. Those brainless critics, whose over-riding purile wish is to attempt to impose their own questionable morals and customs onto a proud people (who need absolutely no lessons from the West on how to run their own country) are the worst possible ambassadors the West has and the sooner they are shut up the better for everyone - including themselves. The only problem with Thais as I see them - and their main weakness - is that they are, if anything, far TOO tolerant of foulmouthed farangs and their sneering comments and general rudenesses.

For those in need of elucidation of Thailand and it's people I enclose an interesting article - which we all would be better off for taking advantage of the advice contained therein. (Copyright Pappa Co Ltd.)

A Polite Society - Manners & Etiquette

Speaking from the Heart

More than 100 words and phrases in Thai language revolves around the heart. The Thai word for heart is "chai" and expressions like "chai yin yin" (let your heart cool down) are spoken politely and with concern to people who are upset, "chai lawn" (hot heart) spoken about people who are easily upset and "chai dee" a compliment to people with a good heart. [/color]Speak Politely

Even if the Words are Not Understood, Your Feelings are! Always remember you are a guest in this country, no matter how long you live here. Loud talking, using foul words and in particular the three words liar "gohoke in Thai", bullsh*t and <deleted>, make people here cringe in polite society. Remember that English is not their language. It is your language, and they are trying hard to accommodate you in speaking English because you cannot speak Thai. Lots of polite, slow moving hand gestures with a nice smile will help you communicate with almost everyone. They may not understand every word you say, but they understand your emotions when you say them so do not be trite or condescending.

Patience

Being patient is considered good manners, and will get you respect. Take your time with people, and try to understand them. Like other Asian societies, Thai culture is centered on the family unit, the pecking order and keeping "face." This means that as a foreigner, please respect your Thai hosts in all ways, no matter what their station in life might be. A Buddhist believes that their station in life may change in the next life, or may have been significantly different in a previous life, so they are tolerant and accepting of all people. When dealings with Thais go wrong, don't get angry. It won't help matters! Losing one's temper means loss of face for all concerned. Remember that you are in Asia, where self-control is most important. Thais consider talking loudly to be rude behavior in most situations.

Spending More Time Talking Gets Results

Spend time slowly and politely talking with Thais in a pleasant voice without over-explaining things. Details are not too important to Thais. Getting to the point in a slow polite way so they can help you is what is important. If you want to have a personal relationship with someone you are attracted to, spend time answering and asking "What's your name?", "Where do you come from?", "How old are you?", "What work do you do?" and the other few often asked questions used to break the ice and start a dialogue and maybe a relationship.

Verbal Greetings

For males, the usual Thai greeting for hello is Sawa-dee-kap, if you are female the greeting is Sawa-dee-kaa. Using this greeting is appreciated by Thais in the city, or in the countryside. "How are you?" is spoken "Sabai dee mi krap (kaa for women) ?" and answered "Sabai dee krap (kaa)."

Gesture Greetings

Traditionally Thais do not shake hands, but greet each other with a "wai". This is the gesture of placing the palms together before one's face and giving a slight nod of the head. If you are greeted by a Thai adult with a wai, you should wai in response. However, Thais nowadays also shake hands, and will almost always offer a handshake to foreigners. You do not return a wai to children, but a nod. If you have something in your hands it is polite to lower your shoulders and head a bit and nod to acknowledge the wai you received. The higher the rank of the recipient the higher you hold your hands making the wai. You bow to royalty, not wai.

How to Offer a Business Card or Document

When you hand things to people, you should use either both hands, or your right hand only. Never use your left hand (this is reserved for bathroom personal hygiene). Books and other written materials are given a special status over other secular objects. You should not slide books or documents across a table or counter, and never place them on the floor. Use a chair if table space isn't available.

How to Receive a Business "Name" Card

Accepting a "name" card as Thais say is accepting a symbol of that person. Either use two hands and accept the corners closest to you while it is be presented to you, or accept it with your right hand while touching your right arm with your left hand. Then slowly place the card in front of you if you are at on the table, and leave it there until the person and you say good-bye. Do not just quickly put it in your pocket or wallet right when it is given to you.

Pointing Feet Can Represent Disrespect

Your feet are the lowest part of your body, and are considered dirty. You should never point your feet at people, or point at things with your feet, or move things with your feet. You should also not prop your feet up on chairs or tables, or touch someone's body with your foot. Never point your feet towards Monks or Buddhist images ever weather in a temple, home or office. If you are at a temple "Wat" sit mermaid style with your legs under your bottom if sitting in lotus position is uncomfortable, but never extend your feet out or show the bottoms of your feet toward religious images or people. It is also considered rude to step over someone. Always step around them, or if there is no other way to pass by, ask them to please move, even on a crowded train.

The Head is the Temple of the Body

In the same way, the head is regarded as the highest part of the body, so you should not touch adult Thais on the head, or muss their hair. If you do touch someone's by accident, you should apologize right away. Also don't sit on pillows for sleeping.

Visiting Homes

Did you fall in love and now you are going upcountry to meet the family? Well be prepared! Thais can be very hospitable and it's not unusual to be invited home for a meal or a sociable drink. Even if your visit is very brief, you will be offered something to eat or drink, and probably both. You are expected to take whatever is offered, and even if you are not hungry or thirsty or not, you should at least try it. To refuse it is considered to be impolite. As with temple buildings, you must always take off your shoes before entering a Thai home.

Bathrooms

Learning bathroom etiquette in Thailand, as in many other Southeast Asian countries, is a challenge because the squat toilet is the norm, except in hotels and guesthouses geared towards tourists and international business travelers. The bathroom may be outside in its own little building. The traditional Asian toilet sits more or less flush with the surface of the floor, with two foot-pads on either side of the opening. For those who have never used this type of toilet, it may take some getting used to. Next to the toilet is a bucket or small reservoir filled with water, and usually with a plastic bowl floating on the water, or on the floor nearby. The water and bowl has two functions. The first is for the user to scoop water from the reservoir and use it to clean them. The second function is to flush the toilet. This is because they are not mechanical flush type toilets. A few scoops should be sufficient. The next person in will appreciate your understanding of how to use the toilet! If available, do not put tissue in the toilet; put it in the bin nearby.

Shoes

Thais do not wear shoes in their homes. All temples and some guesthouses, offices and shops also request that you not wear shoes. A good rule of thumb is that if there are shoes by the door or the entrance, you need to remove your shoes before you enter. It is important not to ignore this custom as the wearing of shoes indoors is considered very ill-mannered.

Studying for their master's in being at one with their Thainess perhaps ? and one day hoping they will be thaier than thai

[beechguy]

Does anyone know the law concerning life jackets on a private boat in Thailand?

Was it necessary to raise an almost 5 year old thread to ask a short question?

[george]

ThaiTerry,

Please open a new thread instead.

//closed//