5 hours ago, spidermike007 said:

Yeah, the extraordinary US military has not won a war in 81 years, and has saddled Americans with trillions upon trillions of dollars of debt, in attempts at building democracies that have failed without exception. And that includes multiple campaigns where there were boots on the ground for years. Never has a country evolved into a democracy without opposing soldiers on the ground.

But we couldn't expect somebody as dim As Trump to learn anything from history.

They've won wars by the attrition. Not obtaining all objectives doesn't mean they couldn't have, or didn't have more kills by a large margin. People keep using this lame conclusion, not understanding the damage they did If America stayed involved in those wars, eventually they would have done more, but that includes killing more people, both the enemy and civilians by collateral damage.

You've seen what they did to Germany and japan. Think of how much more advanced a military they have now and look at how fast they've decimated Iran's military in a week. No nuclear weapons used. And they have a lot more in store if needed.

Don't kid yourself. Their military could wipe out another in a short time, but a lot of people would end up dead on the other side. The US has lost just a few people in this conflict and killed quite a few, along with wasting most of Iran's military. Wars cost money , of course, as weapons aren't cheap, and the US has the best.

If a country wants democracy, especially Iran now, it's up to their people to follow through, and now.

6 hours ago, beautifulthailand99 said:

Let’s just be real about this. The U.S. can smash things from a distance all day long. Precision strikes, assassinations, blowing up infrastructure, no problem. But that’s not the same as winning a conflict against someone who doesn’t care about playing by those rules. Iran isn’t trying to outgun the U.S., it’s built to absorb punishment and hit back in ways that actually hurt.

You can take out targets, sure. But what happens when the response is tankers getting hit, shipping lanes disrupted, oil and gas facilities across the region suddenly in play. That’s not a clean military exchange anymore, that’s global economic pain. And that’s the whole point. Iran doesn’t need to “win”, it just needs to make it too messy and too expensive to keep going.

And the U.S. isn’t the same as it was 20 or 30 years ago. There’s no appetite for another long war. Vietnam, Iraq, Afghanistan, people remember how those ended. Massive cost, years dragged out, and nothing clean to show for it. That changes the equation. If the other side is willing to just keep going and take losses, that’s where things get uncomfortable fast.

We’ve seen this pattern before. Smaller forces, less tech, but stubborn and patient, dragging a much bigger power into something it can’t neatly finish. That’s not some theory, that’s just history repeating itself in a different form.

And you can bet others are watching all of this very closely. Every move, every response, every weakness. Real conflict like this is basically live data collection. You don’t even have to be involved to learn from it.

So yeah, it won’t be called a defeat if the U.S. pulls back. It never is. But if it ends with them stepping away because the cost and chaos spiral, everyone will know exactly what happened, whatever label gets put on it.

6 hours ago, beautifulthailand99 said:

Let’s just be real about this. The U.S. can smash things from a distance all day long. Precision strikes, assassinations, blowing up infrastructure, no problem. But that’s not the same as winning a conflict against someone who doesn’t care about playing by those rules. Iran isn’t trying to outgun the U.S., it’s built to absorb punishment and hit back in ways that actually hurt.

You can take out targets, sure. But what happens when the response is tankers getting hit, shipping lanes disrupted, oil and gas facilities across the region suddenly in play. That’s not a clean military exchange anymore, that’s global economic pain. And that’s the whole point. Iran doesn’t need to “win”, it just needs to make it too messy and too expensive to keep going.

And the U.S. isn’t the same as it was 20 or 30 years ago. There’s no appetite for another long war. Vietnam, Iraq, Afghanistan, people remember how those ended. Massive cost, years dragged out, and nothing clean to show for it. That changes the equation. If the other side is willing to just keep going and take losses, that’s where things get uncomfortable fast.

We’ve seen this pattern before. Smaller forces, less tech, but stubborn and patient, dragging a much bigger power into something it can’t neatly finish. That’s not some theory, that’s just history repeating itself in a different form.

And you can bet others are watching all of this very closely. Every move, every response, every weakness. Real conflict like this is basically live data collection. You don’t even have to be involved to learn from it.

So yeah, it won’t be called a defeat if the U.S. pulls back. It never is. But if it ends with them stepping away because the cost and chaos spiral, everyone will know exactly what happened, whatever label gets put on it.

6 hours ago, beautifulthailand99 said:

True, but you can also take out their crazy, genocidal leaders and hope others who are more for the people will take over. This might end up as a ground war, where Iran would lose many thousands, along with some American lives, but we also have aircraft, which would further do a lot more damage. Waiting patiently is ruining their economy, and the more damage they do to other countries, along with the oil business, the more they're hated and the more other countries will get involved, which can end this sooner. There is no real clean military exchange unless targets are away from civilian areas, which they aren't all here. Nobody absorbs punishment forever, as the more this goes on, the less people are around in the military, along with their weapons, and their own people are seeing the damage done and are more willing to walk away from it. Others aren't seeing a weakness but a decimation in less than 3 weeks time, which is teaching them what America is now capable of, instead of allowing it to happen with no reprisals. That's over now.

This is also not a jungle warfare, where many troops will be killed by others hiding.

What we've seen in the past isn't the same as now, as things are a lot more high tech. America is not only finding things by radar and GPS but by intel, and this is coming from within, by Iranians tired of living like they did, with hatred towards that regime and how it operated.

The same thing will happen with North Korea and Russia eventually. Out with the old maniacs, and in, eventually, with the new and more democratic thinking leaders. People see what the west has to offer, and they want it.Not only things but the ability to speak and change things. Especially regarding how the women are treated.

Another thing here is that some who have not lived and only possibly have visited the US think they know all about what goes on there and how Americans think, judging from a few videos and Donald Trumps words, which is but a fraction of what goes on there. I'm very much into history and other country's cultures and have been all my life but not having visited or especially not lived there I would only be assuming I knew what goes on there more than the citizens of those countries.

12 minutes ago, fredwiggy said:

Yes, and they adopted many of those from the west. We're talking about Iran here. They and a lot of other countries adopted these things from the west, and will continue to do so. My point is that the younger generation likes these things, especially the women, and are tired of being under control. All countries like all other countries things, cultures, music, etc. This is why you see them using them. Differences are enjoyed because they're different. You think Thai people don't like things western? The same for Iran and all other countries. Again, look at the celebrating going on. They wanted change, which is why people protest, and are killed, by lunatics. When that stops, they have democracy, and are happier.

I'm not sure what your point is. You use the term "Western Values", and equate that with computer games and gadgets. Western values that you defend include blokes on this forum sticking up for paedophiles. I think you used the term "Western Values" without a clue what that actually means, displaying a failure of basic education.

Western values are not Japanese TVs, Hollywood Movies, Korean K-Pop that you think.

Western Values are Individualism, the Rule of Law, the upholding of Human Rights, the Freedom of Expression. But these are not the absolute ultimate values. It would be arrogant to suggest that.

You are a hypocrite.

You are supporting an action to bomb people into submission, by a country where the electorate voted for a man who is a convicted fraudster, a rapist, possibly a paedophile, absolutely an adulterer who enjoys the company of prostitutes, who pardons criminals, honours traitors, who abuses family, friends and allies, who befriends dictators and monsters, a racist, a liar, a cheat.

You want the people of Iran to have a better life? Fine, but stop being a <deleted> by suggesting that the way to do that is to kill thousands of them through aerial attacks. Physician, heal thyself. I'm assuming you are an American, or at least greatly admire America. America is a broken , depraved country right now. It needs to fix itself. You want people to become free. You inspire them by example. You're not doing that right now, when you have a leader who is cruel, a bully, a thug.

America loudly glorifies individualism, but in reality it corrals people into dependence on powerful institutions, engineered choices, and cultural conformity—reducing “freedom” to a managed illusion rather than genuine independence.

America wraps itself in the language of the rule of law while selectively enforcing it through pardons, politically contested prosecutions, and shifting enforcement priorities—seen in recent actions like mass pardons for January 6 defendants, high-profile indictments tied to partisan disputes, and abrupt changes or pauses in enforcing laws such as anti-corruption statutes—revealing a system where legal consistency bends under the weight of power, loyalty, and expediency rather than equal justice.

America does not hold Human Rights when it rips babies from the arms of mothers, and threatens War Crime Tribunal Judges. America wraps itself in the language of human rights while routinely betraying those ideals through unequal justice, systemic inequities, and a persistent gap between what it proclaims and what it actually delivers.

America thunders about free expression while quietly enforcing a culture where dissent is punished, speech is policed by social and institutional pressure, and “freedom” exists only for those who stay within the approved lines.

Celebrations in Iran? You do know its Eid e-Fetr and also the Persian New Year? No you don't because you are one of these Holy Joes who likes to impose what I assume are American values on the rest of the world. Values that include love of morbid obesity. You don't know, neither do you care, because to you they are all heathens.

This dramatic clip has become a meme, but it presents truisms. Watch to the end.

4 minutes ago, Roadsternut said:

I'm not sure what your point is. You use the term "Western Values", and equate that with computer games and gadgets. Western values that you defend include blokes on this forum sticking up for paedophiles. I think you used the term "Western Values" without a clue what that actually means, displaying a failure of basic education.

Western values are not Japanese TVs, Hollywood Movies, Korean K-Pop that you think.

Western Values are Individualism, the Rule of Law, the upholding of Human Rights, the Freedom of Expression. But these are not the absolute ultimate values. It would be arrogant to suggest that.

You are a hypocrite.

You are supporting an action to bomb people into submission, by a country where the electorate voted for a man who is a convicted fraudster, a rapist, possibly a paedophile, absolutely an adulterer who enjoys the company of prostitutes, who pardons criminals, honours traitors, who abuses family, friends and allies, who befriends dictators and monsters, a racist, a liar, a cheat.

You want the people of Iran to have a better life? Fine, but stop being a <deleted> by suggesting that the way to do that is to kill thousands of them through aerial attacks. Physician, heal thyself. I'm assuming you are an American, or at least greatly admire America. America is a broken , depraved country right now. It needs to fix itself. You want people to become free. You inspire them by example. You're not doing that right now, when you have a leader who is cruel, a bully, a thug.

America loudly glorifies individualism, but in reality it corrals people into dependence on powerful institutions, engineered choices, and cultural conformity—reducing “freedom” to a managed illusion rather than genuine independence.

America wraps itself in the language of the rule of law while selectively enforcing it through pardons, politically contested prosecutions, and shifting enforcement priorities—seen in recent actions like mass pardons for January 6 defendants, high-profile indictments tied to partisan disputes, and abrupt changes or pauses in enforcing laws such as anti-corruption statutes—revealing a system where legal consistency bends under the weight of power, loyalty, and expediency rather than equal justice.

America does not hold Human Rights when it rips babies from the arms of mothers, and threatens War Crime Tribunal Judges. America wraps itself in the language of human rights while routinely betraying those ideals through unequal justice, systemic inequities, and a persistent gap between what it proclaims and what it actually delivers.

America thunders about free expression while quietly enforcing a culture where dissent is punished, speech is policed by social and institutional pressure, and “freedom” exists only for those who stay within the approved lines.

Celebrations in Iran? You do know its Eid e-Fetr and also the Persian New Year? No you don't because you are one of these Holy Joes who likes to impose what I assume are American values on the rest of the world. Values that include love of morbid obesity. You don't know, neither do you care, because to you they are all heathens.

This dramatic clip has become a meme, but it presents truisms. Watch to the end.

4 minutes ago, Roadsternut said:

I'm not sure what your point is. You use the term "Western Values", and equate that with computer games and gadgets. Western values that you defend include blokes on this forum sticking up for paedophiles. I think you used the term "Western Values" without a clue what that actually means, displaying a failure of basic education.

Western values are not Japanese TVs, Hollywood Movies, Korean K-Pop that you think.

Western Values are Individualism, the Rule of Law, the upholding of Human Rights, the Freedom of Expression. But these are not the absolute ultimate values. It would be arrogant to suggest that.

You are a hypocrite.

You are supporting an action to bomb people into submission, by a country where the electorate voted for a man who is a convicted fraudster, a rapist, possibly a paedophile, absolutely an adulterer who enjoys the company of prostitutes, who pardons criminals, honours traitors, who abuses family, friends and allies, who befriends dictators and monsters, a racist, a liar, a cheat.

You want the people of Iran to have a better life? Fine, but stop being a <deleted> by suggesting that the way to do that is to kill thousands of them through aerial attacks. Physician, heal thyself. I'm assuming you are an American, or at least greatly admire America. America is a broken , depraved country right now. It needs to fix itself. You want people to become free. You inspire them by example. You're not doing that right now, when you have a leader who is cruel, a bully, a thug.

America loudly glorifies individualism, but in reality it corrals people into dependence on powerful institutions, engineered choices, and cultural conformity—reducing “freedom” to a managed illusion rather than genuine independence.

America wraps itself in the language of the rule of law while selectively enforcing it through pardons, politically contested prosecutions, and shifting enforcement priorities—seen in recent actions like mass pardons for January 6 defendants, high-profile indictments tied to partisan disputes, and abrupt changes or pauses in enforcing laws such as anti-corruption statutes—revealing a system where legal consistency bends under the weight of power, loyalty, and expediency rather than equal justice.

America does not hold Human Rights when it rips babies from the arms of mothers, and threatens War Crime Tribunal Judges. America wraps itself in the language of human rights while routinely betraying those ideals through unequal justice, systemic inequities, and a persistent gap between what it proclaims and what it actually delivers.

America thunders about free expression while quietly enforcing a culture where dissent is punished, speech is policed by social and institutional pressure, and “freedom” exists only for those who stay within the approved lines.

Celebrations in Iran? You do know its Eid e-Fetr and also the Persian New Year? No you don't because you are one of these Holy Joes who likes to impose what I assume are American values on the rest of the world. Values that include love of morbid obesity. You don't know, neither do you care, because to you they are all heathens.

This dramatic clip has become a meme, but it presents truisms. Watch to the end.

I hear a lot of things here but no other good ideas how to stop terrorism in Iran, which is a main reason the US is involved. They have not only been killing Americans, which is why we should retaliate, but thousands of their own people. Letting this go on is wrong, and the education needs to improve within their own, along with ridding the world of the terrorists leaders. There is no other way. Western ideals isn't sticking up for pedophiles, which no normal person does, no matter what country they operate in.

Again, don't assume what I know, nor anyone else, because it's you that hasn't a clue what others know or don't know. Look at your own country and it's positives and failures, and you'll see it isn't just America which has problems.

Who said I'm supporting bombing a country's people anywhere? Thinking anyone wants civilians hurt is ignorance. That it happens is obvious, in all wars. I'm all for eliminating their terrorists, along with their leaders. What ideals they want then is up to them, as freedom to speak without suppression is what everyone wants. Again, think before you post, as what you've done is exactly what a few others here do. Assuming doesn't work. And most of what you've written is assumptions, but maybe with your thinking this isn't understood.

I think you also might be listening to a few newscasts and not the amount that are available daily, from all over . I get these daily, along with the videos some are only going by, which can be biased. I don't go by one or two's opinions but on facts and evidence, along with personal experience before I make up my mind. Again, try living in the US before you guess what all goes on there, along with their thinking, as you obviously haven't enough. America is broken and depraved? lol That alone shows you've only been a visitor, if that. Experts with a week's experience never flies. Try living there for 5 or more decades before you make assumptions on how Americans think, and Donald Trump is only one person, and doesn't reflect on everyone's ideals, even if they voted for him. I know full well the mistakes politicians and courts make there, along with everywhere else, as news travels fast, and as far as America, I lived there 62 years.

Give it a rest, as you're acting exactly like another here who's words are much the same, and never right. Think back on how your own country hurt others, before you talk about America, which isn't one race or nationality but all the world's in one place, and acts accordingly. And I saw his video, and it's just another opinion, which doesn't mirror all the other millions of Americans thinking but just some. Don't guess what you think others know. I lived in the west 62 years. Of course I know what western values and ideals are. I'm not talking about video games, which is a pretty dopey assumption.What was your previous username(s)?

A-10 Warthogs Are Prowling For Iranian Boats In The Strait Of Hormuz

Venerable A-10 Warthog attack jets are helping dismantle Iran’s Navy. Though the A-10 is most commonly associated with missions over land, the jets have a long-standing, if often obscure, maritime role. Moreover, Warthog pilots have been training for decades for the specific scenario of hunting Iran’s fleets of fast boats in and around the highly strategic Strait of Hormuz. All of this comes as the U.S. military works to find ways to reopen the critical waterway to normal maritime commerce, which has ground to a virtual halt in the face of Iranian attacks on shipping and its declaration that the strait is closed.

Chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff U.S. Air Force Gen. Dan “Razin” Caine discussed the A-10’s contribution to the current conflict with Iran at a Pentagon press conference this morning. The U.S. military has previously disclosed the basic fact that Warthogs have been supporting what is dubbed Operation Epic Fury. A-10s have previously been seen attacking Iranian-backed militias in Iraq. The A-10 is very much in the twilight of its career, with the Air Force hoping to have the type retired for good by the end of the decade, if not sooner.

SOURCE

6 hours ago, fredwiggy said:

They've won wars by the attrition. Not obtaining all objectives doesn't mean they couldn't have, or didn't have more kills by a large margin. People keep using this lame conclusion, not understanding the damage they did If America stayed involved in those wars, eventually they would have done more, but that includes killing more people, both the enemy and civilians by collateral damage.

You've seen what they did to Germany and japan. Think of how much more advanced a military they have now and look at how fast they've decimated Iran's military in a week. No nuclear weapons used. And they have a lot more in store if needed.

Don't kid yourself. Their military could wipe out another in a short time, but a lot of people would end up dead on the other side. The US has lost just a few people in this conflict and killed quite a few, along with wasting most of Iran's military. Wars cost money , of course, as weapons aren't cheap, and the US has the best.

If a country wants democracy, especially Iran now, it's up to their people to follow through, and now.

I totally agree that it's up to the Iranian people but it's their choice not Don's, and it's not going to happen without soldiers on the ground which will lead to a mass slaughter of Americans, and the total downfall of the toxic monster.

Worth the sacrifice? Maybe, especially if they're not your own children.

And since when has the amount of people killed in a conflict counted for anything? The US is considered a loser nation all over the world now, and any prestige and influence that it once had is completely gone.

15 minutes ago, spidermike007 said:

I totally agree that it's up to the Iranian people but it's their choice not Don's, and it's not going to happen without soldiers on the ground which will lead to a mass slaughter of Americans, and the total downfall of the toxic monster.

Worth the sacrifice? Maybe, especially if they're not your own children.

And since when has the amount of people killed in a conflict counted for anything? The US is considered a loser nation all over the world now, and any prestige and influence that it once had is completely gone.

The one thing no one should do is judge America on Trump. It's still Congress that's backing this war after the initial move, and Americans aren't all on trump's side in anything. Trump will self destruct eventually, but the main issue is that Iran's people aren't still living in this controlled state where they die if they speak.

If American soldiers are going into this, they won't be alone, and they'll have helis and planes backing them up. if someone shoots at the soldiers and they're being overrun, a plane will even the odds, along with the helis, and it'll be a massacre on the Iran side of losing. This isn't Iraq, as the technology has improved since then, and they aren't going to be taking more chances than necessary, as yes the American public will be watching all of this.

America might look bad because of past mistakes and Trump's dealings of late, but it's still the most powerful nation with the most powerful military, and hoping that military eliminates all Iran's lunatics and it's people take over. Trump wanting to pick their leader is just him talking his usual crapola. It's not up to him.

1 hour ago, fredwiggy said:

The one thing no one should do is judge America on Trump. It's still Congress that's backing this war after the initial move, and Americans aren't all on trump's side in anything. Trump will self destruct eventually, but the main issue is that Iran's people aren't still living in this controlled state where they die if they speak.

If American soldiers are going into this, they won't be alone, and they'll have helis and planes backing them up. if someone shoots at the soldiers and they're being overrun, a plane will even the odds, along with the helis, and it'll be a massacre on the Iran side of losing. This isn't Iraq, as the technology has improved since then, and they aren't going to be taking more chances than necessary, as yes the American public will be watching all of this.

America might look bad because of past mistakes and Trump's dealings of late, but it's still the most powerful nation with the most powerful military, and hoping that military eliminates all Iran's lunatics and it's people take over. Trump wanting to pick their leader is just him talking his usual crapola. It's not up to him.

I think your dead wrong about the people not living in a controlled state, the authorities might be distracted for the moment, but the authoritarian regime is very much still in place, there are huge numbers of National Police and the IRG has not been put down to any significant degree.

I am hoping that that happens but it would require for the people to rise up by the millions, make huge sacrifices and take control.

Incredibly simple minds like Trump have absolutely no understanding of how a democracy develops organically. He seems to think he can just bomb the country into submission, that's not going to work. All that's doing right now is creating worldwide chaos, driving up inflation everywhere, and creating a huge mess for the Persian people.

But with all his ill-gotten cash why would he care about us? Or them?

21 hours ago, fredwiggy said:

A few here, you included, have no idea what the US is capable of, and what they have remaining. Iran's military is being decimated. They have no Air Force, Navy and what they do have is being targeted all day long, and eventually they'll have nothing left.

The US military can destroy anyone at any time, and aren't using but a portion of the capabilities. . They're holding back because of the collateral damage they don't want to happen, as Iran's regime has much of their military hidden around civilian areas, showing just how little they care about their own people.

People make fun of Trump for obvious reasons, but the US military isn't Trump. If Iran was doing any real damage we would be hearing about it. If they had planes and boats in use, we would hear about it. A military without an Air Force is done before it starts. One without a Navy is a sitting duck and those missiles they're shooting will eventually run out, and looking at the daily celebrations by Iranians all over the world shows exactly what they think of America, and of their own regime.

Yes, it will cost a lot of money, but it'll come back, and Iran will have a normal leader installed instead of a megalomaniac that's bound for hell.

Excuse me? Cutting off 20% of world oil supply is not real damage?

IIRC the USA held all the cards in Vietnam, Iraq and Afghanistan. How did those end for America?

Wars are won with boots on the ground. Even then, if the local population is against you, the war is lost before it's even started.

No other country will put boots on the ground to save America's bacon. If Trump does, he'll be impeached, even by Republicans.

Wars are a lot easier to get into than out of.

One of the biggest liabilities that Trump had leading up to this war was the decision to use two absolute imbeciles in the form of Witkoff and Kushner. They are both rabid Zionists, they both deliberately lied to Iran during the negotiations in order to fool them into thinking that the US was sincere, and look at the outcome that we have.

The thing that a very tiny mind like Trump doesn't get is that Iran will not negotiate with the US at this point. Many reports are coming out that Witkoff is begging the Iranian foreign minister for meetings and his calls are not being returned. The US has backed themselves into a corner and the economic devastation has been way beyond what they anticipated, and the price they're going to pay for this in the midterms is going to be brutal. Unchecked inflation, rising unemployment, the closing of hundreds of thousands of small businesses, no return of manufacturing to the US, a shortage of labor due to extreme and short sighted immigration policy, and the abandonment of any hope that Trump would improve the quality of life for Americans, but instead we get sabotage of those hopes for the entire planet.

Don's demise will be a good thing, as Trump will lose his power and he will just become a whiny gutter trash punk, will have to deal with being doubly impotent, and hopefully he will eventually disappear into oblivion. Morbid sickness is quite likely, considering his rapid decline, and his three or four cheeseburger a day diet.

See ya Don. You will not be missed, the world will celebrate your demise with such glee, millions will take to the streets and welcome the return of civility, decency, honor, grace and hope.

17 minutes ago, Lacessit said:

Excuse me? Cutting off 20% of world oil supply is not real damage?

IIRC the USA held all the cards in Vietnam, Iraq and Afghanistan. How did those end for America?

Wars are won with boots on the ground. Even then, if the local population is against you, the war is lost before it's even started.

No other country will put boots on the ground to save America's bacon. If Trump does, he'll be impeached, even by Republicans.

Wars are a lot easier to get into than out of.

I meant damage towards America's military. The US pulled out of Vietnam because it wasn't going as planned. The damage done to it's military was immense, but democracy wasn't installed. The same for Afghanistan. Iraq was a win, as far as the battles. It removed a dictator but didn't fix it internally, which is still in the citizens hands. The local population of Iran is mixed. Many want it changed, and some don't. If they put troops on the ground, it might end it earlier, but many Iranians will die.

38 minutes ago, spidermike007 said:

I think your dead wrong about the people not living in a controlled state, the authorities might be distracted for the moment, but the authoritarian regime is very much still in place, there are huge numbers of National Police and the IRG has not been put down to any significant degree.

I am hoping that that happens but it would require for the people to rise up by the millions, make huge sacrifices and take control.

Incredibly simple minds like Trump have absolutely no understanding of how a democracy develops organically. He seems to think he can just bomb the country into submission, that's not going to work. All that's doing right now is creating worldwide chaos, driving up inflation everywhere, and creating a huge mess for the Persian people.

But with all his ill-gotten cash why would he care about us? Or them?

I said they are living in a controlled state, which is what most want to change. Hopefully by attrition this will end soon, or some of those who are still in control might change their thinking, seeing how many others are dying every day.

3 minutes ago, fredwiggy said:

I meant damage towards America's military. The US pulled out of Vietnam because it wasn't going as planned. The damage done to it's military was immense, but democracy wasn't installed. The same for Afghanistan. Iraq was a win, as far as the battles. It removed a dictator but didn't fix it internally, which is still in the citizens hands. The local population of Iran is mixed. Many want it changed, and some don't. If they put troops on the ground, it might end it earlier, but many Iranians will die.

My guess is that far more Americans will die on the ground in Iran than locals, that is a wet dream for them and they are hoping and praying that it happens. Trump has made an enormous number of errors, mistakes and miscalculations so far in his second term, but that would be the single worst mistake so far and it would be his undoing. Which would be the only blessing so far in all of this.

1 minute ago, spidermike007 said:

My guess is that far more Americans will die on the ground in Iran than locals, that is a wet dream for them and they are hoping and praying that it happens. Trump has made an enormous number of errors, mistakes and miscalculations so far in his second term, but that would be the single worst mistake so far and it would be his undoing. Which would be the only blessing so far in all of this.

Remember the US has many helis and planes. Iran has neither. This is mostly open warfare. No jungles to hide in. Only if it goes door to door will it see many casualties on both sides.

No one in their right minds would want to see the US lose this, as it would be a free for all for terrorists worldwide, which is likely to happen anyway, seeing that Iran is targeting it's neighbors and other countries as well, as they usually do. Terrorism needs extermination, period. These aren't normal thinkers and history has shown what they're capable of. You let them get away with this it's open season on anyone they deem negative against them. You remove their thinking, it stops attacks. It's not all about Trump. He just did something the previous presidents were afraid to do. Even though he does make mistakes in other areas, this needed to happen eventually.

21 hours ago, fredwiggy said:

As the years go on, the more people from other countries want to adopt western ideals.

There are "people from other countries" and then there is the "islamic fundamentalists".

The whole problem stems from a failure to differentiate, obviously the US learned nothing from the Taliban.

3 minutes ago, sandyf said:

There are "people from other countries" and then there is the "islamic fundamentalists".

The whole problem stems from a failure to differentiate, obviously the US learned nothing from the Taliban.ban.

This isn't mostly about just adopting ideals or things the west likes, but the way we live in freedom, with the ability to protest and be heard, without repercussions or the fear of death if we talk. Helping them to be free of control and persecution is a good thing. The problem is that they have to do most of this themselves, after the maniacs are eliminated or at least curtailed.

23 hours ago, beautifulthailand99 said:

Full Metal Jacket and Platoon are 2 of my favourite movies that dig into the reality of US Imperial might at the hot end of their wars not so much surgical as a butcher's hammer looks impresive but what is it actually achieving. The road of death in Iraq was so brutal and shooting at sitting ducks that even the Warthog crews started to feel disgust at what they were doing mass killing which they could see in their sights. Back home mnay of these are broken suffering nightmares or with injuries and struggling to survive.

OK, so now you are getting your insight into current military strategies from fantasized Hollywood productions. Your comprehension is so brilliant that you need to share it with the military planners and commanders. Please give them a call and let them know you know it all because you watched some Hollywood movies.

23 minutes ago, sandyf said:

There are "people from other countries" and then there is the "islamic fundamentalists".

The whole problem stems from a failure to differentiate, obviously the US learned nothing from the Taliban.

What did you want them to learn? How to bury women up to their neck and to stone them? The failure in Afghanistan was the reluctance to fight the Taliban on their own terms: Scorched earth with the elimination of and any and all allied or associated with the Taliban. Such a tactic would have been contrary to the public sentiment in western countries, but in keeping with local culture and customs. The west wanted to extend human rights and education to communities who were still living according to the customs of circa 1250.

9 hours ago, fredwiggy said:

I hear a lot of things here but no other good ideas how to stop terrorism in Iran, which is a main reason the US is involved. They have not only been killing Americans, which is why we should retaliate, but thousands of their own people. Letting this go on is wrong, and the education needs to improve within their own, along with ridding the world of the terrorists leaders. There is no other way. Western ideals isn't sticking up for pedophiles, which no normal person does, no matter what country they operate in.

Again, don't assume what I know, nor anyone else, because it's you that hasn't a clue what others know or don't know. Look at your own country and it's positives and failures, and you'll see it isn't just America which has problems.

Who said I'm supporting bombing a country's people anywhere? Thinking anyone wants civilians hurt is ignorance. That it happens is obvious, in all wars. I'm all for eliminating their terrorists, along with their leaders. What ideals they want then is up to them, as freedom to speak without suppression is what everyone wants. Again, think before you post, as what you've done is exactly what a few others here do. Assuming doesn't work. And most of what you've written is assumptions, but maybe with your thinking this isn't understood.

I think you also might be listening to a few newscasts and not the amount that are available daily, from all over . I get these daily, along with the videos some are only going by, which can be biased. I don't go by one or two's opinions but on facts and evidence, along with personal experience before I make up my mind. Again, try living in the US before you guess what all goes on there, along with their thinking, as you obviously haven't enough. America is broken and depraved? lol That alone shows you've only been a visitor, if that. Experts with a week's experience never flies. Try living there for 5 or more decades before you make assumptions on how Americans think, and Donald Trump is only one person, and doesn't reflect on everyone's ideals, even if they voted for him. I know full well the mistakes politicians and courts make there, along with everywhere else, as news travels fast, and as far as America, I lived there 62 years.

Give it a rest, as you're acting exactly like another here who's words are much the same, and never right. Think back on how your own country hurt others, before you talk about America, which isn't one race or nationality but all the world's in one place, and acts accordingly. And I saw his video, and it's just another opinion, which doesn't mirror all the other millions of Americans thinking but just some. Don't guess what you think others know. I lived in the west 62 years. Of course I know what western values and ideals are. I'm not talking about video games, which is a pretty dopey assumption.What was your previous username(s)?

I asked you what you meant by "Western Values", and you couldn't come up with a cogent answer, suggesting it is not a term you really understand.

You somehow thought I implied that Western Values meant sticking up for Nonces. Perverse linkage. I stated that the government is sticking up for nonces. You betrayed your thinking. The current US government is no conforming to the classically accepted definition of espousing Western Values, for the reasons I stated. It is hypocritical in its support for the freedom of speech or expression. It routinely breaks the law. It does not uphold human rights. It suppresses the individual.

My country isn't (currently) bombing schools and hospitals.

I've lived and worked in America, over maybe a 10-12 year period. I saw the way some citizens in the South were treated. My country might have some bad housing conditions, but I was unprepared by what I can only describe as shanty towns in Northern Mississippi.

Then, you had decent men, Republican and Democrats, who served in government. Their politics might differ, but they were united by a record of public service.

The current President is not a decent man. That's not a matter of conjecture. You appear blind to this, in your unwavering support of what the President calls a "military operation". It is a matter of public record. There are court cases. There is his own voice, describing his casual sexual abuse of women. There is his own description, in a radio interview, of receiving gratification at observing a room of undressed and naked 13-16 year old beauty contestants. There is his record of adultery and use of prostitutes.

You complain that foreigners don't understand America, and will never understand America because they haven't lived 62 years there, and there are not entitled to an opinion. You have formed your view of Iran from basically all day doom scrolling of videos etc. You've formed a strong opinion of what you think Iranians want. You've imposed your own morality on what you think the Iranian people want. You think everyone wants the "freedom to speak without suppression". I'm all for suppressing the voices of hate, the voices who supported the Holocaust, the voices that supported the killing of British soldiers in Ireland. What you are expressing is the absolutist American view of Freedom of Speech, which is not a universal concept. So again, you've made a presumption based on a US centric view of the world. You state your views are based on experience, but you have lived 62 years in the United States. Where else have you lived substantially? How long did you live anywhere in Europe before forming opinions on European country rights and wrongs?

You say your country isn't protecting paedophiles. Ghislaine Maxwell; convicted of really really heinous crimes (her active participation is shocking, it wasn't a technical participation. She held down girls during rapes, and raped girls herself). And now your country has moved her to a low security prison, with spas and day release. There is active discussion about giving her a pardon. We have this whole debacle of the so-called Epstein files, where there is specious excuses why the names of suspects are witheld from lawmakers. Its said there are 6 million pages to examine, and 500 top lawyers have been tasked to look at them. That's 12,000 pages each. That's really not that much to go through, considering Epstein has been dead for nearly 10 years.

You're all for eliminating "terrorists". Who isn't. But your country labels anyone in uniform as a terrorist. Your SoW has stated there will be no "rules of engagement", essentially issuing a Give No Quarter order, which is actually defined as a War Crime in the Geneval Conventions, of which the US is a signatory to. The vast majority of the dead in this war are civilians and members of the Iranian military. Are you now suggesting anyone in uniform is a terrorist? All those Iranian sailors are terrorists? You've said you want peace, but peace comes at a price, which is a bizarre way of looking at things. A few weeks ago, we had peace. Gabbard had concluded that the evidence pointed to Iran being at least 10 years away from the "bomb", but she had left it to the President to decide that 10 years actually meant 2 weeks. Despite your considerable age, you are very naive if you think the end of this conflict will be followed by peace in the middle east.

You say there is no other way, Duh, there is.

You mention Iran killing Americans, and suggest there should be reprisals for that. List the incidents of Iran killing Americans for which there have been no reprisals. And list the Iranians killed by America. You say " They have not only been killing Americans, which is why we should retaliate, but thousands of their own people. Letting this go on is wrong". So where was the US in the Congo, in Myanmar, in Ukraine, in Chechenya, in Gaza, in Lebanon, in China? Complete hypocrisy. You are not bombing the <deleted> out of Iran to save them. You're not even bombing the <deleted> out of Iran over a supposed nuclear weapon. America has been manipulated by malign powers. Iran won't lose this. I say that not because I support the Islamic Republic; I find the government there to be odious, repugnant. This war will end with an Islamic Republic of Iran. All the bombing in the world won't change that. The price of oil will go up. Russia will profit. The Iranian leadership will profit. Israel will profit. America won't. Your standard of living, like in Europe, will significantly worsen. Your soft power, the power America had 40 years ago, would be finally gone. No one will trust the US in talks now. It used to be Perfidious Albion. Now those words have been replaced by Perfidious Ameriki. Those friendships, gone.

Iran was lead by an octogenarian Supreme Leader who had cancer, only the second Supreme leader it had known. His son was known to US Intelligence to be an active homosexual, and would not have succeeded him in the line of succession under normal circumstances.

There would have been a change anyhow very soon, so why this urgent action? Why now, when the US navy had just scrapped its proven minehunting capability. Why now, when the US is facing a potential conflict with Russia. Why now, where the US feels the threat is so serious from China, its prepared to invade the sovereign territory of an ally, and potentially killed NATO troops. Why now, when the threat to US national security due to drugs is so serious, that military action is waged in South America. There are a lot of things going on in the world. There is no convincing reason that it was America's choice to strike, and in fact, its become beholden to a foreign power.

The Mullah's choice for President did not win the election. Your lot were too keen to bomb and kill, and you have supported that, from sitting in your proverbial American armchair of 62 years, evidenced from you numerous posts on the topic. That's no assumption, or presumption. That's your own words.

Give it a rest? Isn't that suppressing my Freedom of Speech? Freedom of Expression means you don't have to read my posts.

1 hour ago, Patong2021 said:

What did you want them to learn? How to bury women up to their neck and to stone them? The failure in Afghanistan was the reluctance to fight the Taliban on their own terms: Scorched earth with the elimination of and any and all allied or associated with the Taliban. Such a tactic would have been contrary to the public sentiment in western countries, but in keeping with local culture and customs. The west wanted to extend human rights and education to communities who were still living according to the customs of circa 1250.

That's not the reason for failure (that 900,000 dead Afghans wasn't enough). The reason for failure is that for most of the time, about 50% of the US forces were not part of the ISAF mission (remember what the acronym stood for), but instead were busy hunting ghosts, blowing up chunks of mountainsides, when all along your quarry was in Pakistan. It was a muddled mission, with wasted resource.

The German's tried your preferred tactics in Eastern Europe, in WW2. They lost the war.

And local culture and customs is NOT scorched earth. The Afghan way is deals between tribal elders As a multi-ethnic state, its always been that way (read The Places in Between. its illuminating). Ultimately the failure of Afghanistan (depending on your perspective), is failure to understand the locals, lack of mission clarity, and you backed the wrong mob. An enormous amount of treasure went into Afghanistan over a 20 year period, and looking at the country now, there is precious little to show for it. Lets see how it looks in 10 years. Afghanistan deserves some time not being meddled about by the Great and Local Powers, be that Russia, America, India, Iran, Pakistan.

15 hours ago, Yagoda said:

Now show us where you got that from. Made up stories much LOL

Here's an extract from the Wall Street Journal article linked to earlier in the thread.

Despite the strikes, Iran is still believed to have a vast stockpile of mines, cruise missiles on trucks and hundreds of undamaged boats in hidden facilities with deeply dug tunnels along the coast and on islands, said Farzin Nadimi, an expert on Iranian defenses at the Washington Institute for Near East Policy.

18 hours ago, fredwiggy said:

Helping them to be free of control and persecution is a good thing.

The US seem to have forgotten it came about through a regime change from "within".

The history books have shown it is the only way, but "might is right" prevails.

18 hours ago, Patong2021 said:

What did you want them to learn?

How not to fail, again.

5 minutes ago, sandyf said:

The US seem to have forgotten it came about through a regime change from "within".

The history books have shown it is the only way, but "might is right" prevails.

Most governments have made major mistakes through time. Democracy has the people the ability to vote in a different leader, hoping they might change things for the better. History has also shown this doesn't always work. Power does overcome many things, and who can fight against it? No matter how far civilization has come it's still far behind what it should be. Technology iis amazing but the minds stay much the same as far as actions towards others.

17 hours ago, Roadsternut said:

I asked you what you meant by "Western Values", and you couldn't come up with a cogent answer, suggesting it is not a term you really understand.

You somehow thought I implied that Western Values meant sticking up for Nonces. Perverse linkage. I stated that the government is sticking up for nonces. You betrayed your thinking. The current US government is no conforming to the classically accepted definition of espousing Western Values, for the reasons I stated. It is hypocritical in its support for the freedom of speech or expression. It routinely breaks the law. It does not uphold human rights. It suppresses the individual.

My country isn't (currently) bombing schools and hospitals.

I've lived and worked in America, over maybe a 10-12 year period. I saw the way some citizens in the South were treated. My country might have some bad housing conditions, but I was unprepared by what I can only describe as shanty towns in Northern Mississippi.

Then, you had decent men, Republican and Democrats, who served in government. Their politics might differ, but they were united by a record of public service.

The current President is not a decent man. That's not a matter of conjecture. You appear blind to this, in your unwavering support of what the President calls a "military operation". It is a matter of public record. There are court cases. There is his own voice, describing his casual sexual abuse of women. There is his own description, in a radio interview, of receiving gratification at observing a room of undressed and naked 13-16 year old beauty contestants. There is his record of adultery and use of prostitutes.

You complain that foreigners don't understand America, and will never understand America because they haven't lived 62 years there, and there are not entitled to an opinion. You have formed your view of Iran from basically all day doom scrolling of videos etc. You've formed a strong opinion of what you think Iranians want. You've imposed your own morality on what you think the Iranian people want. You think everyone wants the "freedom to speak without suppression". I'm all for suppressing the voices of hate, the voices who supported the Holocaust, the voices that supported the killing of British soldiers in Ireland. What you are expressing is the absolutist American view of Freedom of Speech, which is not a universal concept. So again, you've made a presumption based on a US centric view of the world. You state your views are based on experience, but you have lived 62 years in the United States. Where else have you lived substantially? How long did you live anywhere in Europe before forming opinions on European country rights and wrongs?

You say your country isn't protecting paedophiles. Ghislaine Maxwell; convicted of really really heinous crimes (her active participation is shocking, it wasn't a technical participation. She held down girls during rapes, and raped girls herself). And now your country has moved her to a low security prison, with spas and day release. There is active discussion about giving her a pardon. We have this whole debacle of the so-called Epstein files, where there is specious excuses why the names of suspects are witheld from lawmakers. Its said there are 6 million pages to examine, and 500 top lawyers have been tasked to look at them. That's 12,000 pages each. That's really not that much to go through, considering Epstein has been dead for nearly 10 years.

You're all for eliminating "terrorists". Who isn't. But your country labels anyone in uniform as a terrorist. Your SoW has stated there will be no "rules of engagement", essentially issuing a Give No Quarter order, which is actually defined as a War Crime in the Geneval Conventions, of which the US is a signatory to. The vast majority of the dead in this war are civilians and members of the Iranian military. Are you now suggesting anyone in uniform is a terrorist? All those Iranian sailors are terrorists? You've said you want peace, but peace comes at a price, which is a bizarre way of looking at things. A few weeks ago, we had peace. Gabbard had concluded that the evidence pointed to Iran being at least 10 years away from the "bomb", but she had left it to the President to decide that 10 years actually meant 2 weeks. Despite your considerable age, you are very naive if you think the end of this conflict will be followed by peace in the middle east.

You say there is no other way, Duh, there is.

You mention Iran killing Americans, and suggest there should be reprisals for that. List the incidents of Iran killing Americans for which there have been no reprisals. And list the Iranians killed by America. You say " They have not only been killing Americans, which is why we should retaliate, but thousands of their own people. Letting this go on is wrong". So where was the US in the Congo, in Myanmar, in Ukraine, in Chechenya, in Gaza, in Lebanon, in China? Complete hypocrisy. You are not bombing the <deleted> out of Iran to save them. You're not even bombing the <deleted> out of Iran over a supposed nuclear weapon. America has been manipulated by malign powers. Iran won't lose this. I say that not because I support the Islamic Republic; I find the government there to be odious, repugnant. This war will end with an Islamic Republic of Iran. All the bombing in the world won't change that. The price of oil will go up. Russia will profit. The Iranian leadership will profit. Israel will profit. America won't. Your standard of living, like in Europe, will significantly worsen. Your soft power, the power America had 40 years ago, would be finally gone. No one will trust the US in talks now. It used to be Perfidious Albion. Now those words have been replaced by Perfidious Ameriki. Those friendships, gone.

Iran was lead by an octogenarian Supreme Leader who had cancer, only the second Supreme leader it had known. His son was known to US Intelligence to be an active homosexual, and would not have succeeded him in the line of succession under normal circumstances.

There would have been a change anyhow very soon, so why this urgent action? Why now, when the US navy had just scrapped its proven minehunting capability. Why now, when the US is facing a potential conflict with Russia. Why now, where the US feels the threat is so serious from China, its prepared to invade the sovereign territory of an ally, and potentially killed NATO troops. Why now, when the threat to US national security due to drugs is so serious, that military action is waged in South America. There are a lot of things going on in the world. There is no convincing reason that it was America's choice to strike, and in fact, its become beholden to a foreign power.

The Mullah's choice for President did not win the election. Your lot were too keen to bomb and kill, and you have supported that, from sitting in your proverbial American armchair of 62 years, evidenced from you numerous posts on the topic. That's no assumption, or presumption. That's your own words.

Give it a rest? Isn't that suppressing my Freedom of Speech? Freedom of Expression means you don't have to read my posts.

It is doubtful the people you want to convince will read more than 5 lines. Maybe you should organize a group chat on whats app or line for the people who share similar views. That way you can all have a say in a supportive environment.

On 3/21/2026 at 5:04 AM, fredwiggy said:

Yes, and they adopted many of those from the west. We're talking about Iran here. They and a lot of other countries adopted these things from the west, and will continue to do so. My point is that the younger generation likes these things, especially the women, and are tired of being under control ....

Alas I don't think women in Iran are much "tired of being under control". They control men, like women everwhere else in the World. And older hags control younger women. You see huge crowds of older hags holding posters of Khamenei, chanting "death to Israel, death to America". Iran as a patriarchal oppressive regime secretly opposed by its own women is Western wishful thinking.

Of course sexy hot teenagers in Iran would prefer mini-skirts, but they have no power and make up only a fraction of the female population. Plus, they will soon get old and prefer burkas again.

This is a pic of the "Iranian revolution", when the Shah had to flee and Ayatollah Khomeini was welcomed back from exile.

1 minute ago, JackGats said:

Alas I don't think women in Iran are much "tired of being under control". They control men, like women everwhere else in the World. And older hags control younger women. You see huge crowds of older hags holding posters of Khamenei, chanting "death to Israel, death to America". Iran as a patriarchal oppressive regime secretly opposed by its own women is Western wishful thinking.

Of course sexy hot teenagers in Iran would prefer mini-skirts, but they have no power and make up only a fraction of the female population. Plus, they will soon get old and prefer burkas again.

This is a pic of the "Iranian revolution", when the Shah had to flee and Ayatollah Khomeini was welcomed back from exile.

I think for every woman that's on the regime's side in things, brainwashed, there are two that are against what's gone on. Looking at the Iranians in videos we see daily celebrating outside of Iran, without fear of reprisal, we can see how they feel, and it's women and men. I don't think there's much controlling of men by women in Iran, but not living there, we can only go by what Iranians say who live in the west, which has been spoken many times. Nothing wrong with them following their religious beliefs, but death to anyone isn't part of it. Times have changed since Khomeini came into power, and look at what's happened since, not only in Iran but against other countries.

On 3/20/2026 at 11:04 PM, fredwiggy said:

We aren't trying to make others Americans but give them a better way of life, which is one reason why America gets involved in foreign affairs, along with helping the trade between. Thinking also you know all of what's going on is naive, as you don't. You have to hear all of it from many sources before you make up your mind unbiased, which a lot here are, hating Trump and disliking America itself. Think outside the box.

It would be funny if it weren't so sad. You urge people to 'think outside the box' whilst posting 'simple minded' nonsense.

You are probably one of the least travelled and experienced members of this board, so you sit at home watching countless videos and then proclaim that you are right and the rest of us need to think outside the box.

You want thinking outside the box? Try this for size: https://www.facebook.com/reel/1894556997855136/

3 minutes ago, IsmeUno said:

It would be funny if it weren't so sad. You urge people to 'think outside the box' whilst posting 'simple minded' nonsense.

You are probably one of the least travelled and experienced members of this board, so you sit at home watching countless videos and then proclaim that you are right and the rest of us need to think outside the box.

You want thinking outside the box? Try this for size:

3 minutes ago, IsmeUno said:

I

What's sad is that you've been proven wrong every single time, yet still come back like a moth to the flame, acting exactly the same way every time. Every reply an assumption and a cutdown, all the while being one of the most hated members here. A troll, with little knowledge but a huge ego, who can't reply with anything positive, obviously not a happy person, so he attacks others who have made him out the fool.

Look at your reply now. "Probably, Sit at Home, Watching countless videos, The rest of us."

This is not about anyone else besides you and the other few trolls, who obviously have nothing going on in their lives so feel the need to try and correct others in an online forum, obviously suffering from a low self esteem and NPD, which has you deflecting anything anyone points out about your behavior. Too stupid to realize he's been busted, had, pointed out and condemned.

Warned many times by the mods and removed, in this and other aliases, and still can't see the writing on the wall. You are simply a very disturbed little boy, who was never taught much from "parents", and who's only agenda is trying to appear superior, when all you are is a teenager in a man's body, trying to get out.

Now go take that girlfriend of yours out, at least until she also figures you out and looks for a normal man to spend time with. Or better yet, keep trolling and eventually you'll be banned permanently.

23 hours ago, fredwiggy said:

I meant damage towards America's military. The US pulled out of Vietnam because it wasn't going as planned. The damage done to it's military was immense, but democracy wasn't installed. The same for Afghanistan. Iraq was a win, as far as the battles. It removed a dictator but didn't fix it internally, which is still in the citizens hands. The local population of Iran is mixed. Many want it changed, and some don't. If they put troops on the ground, it might end it earlier, but many Iranians will die.

So will many Americans, if it comes to that.

IMO you are hypnotized by technical prowess. The Germans had far superior weaponry to the Russians, they got swamped. In Vietnam, America got beaten by troops who dug tunnels, living on a handful of rice. How many Americans were killed or maimed in Afghanistan by IED's?

How is all the vaunted equipment helping a free flow of cargo in the Stait of Hormuz?