Mp3 "juke Box" Busts?

[jbhh]

Hello,

I have heard from several sources (most of them bar owners) that a group of people is going around the bars, busting them for having "juke boxes" that play MP3 music. They always show up in a group of around 10, and don't leave without money or dragging the owners to the police station.

The fine they were asked to pay started at 200,000 Baht, and as much as I know ALL of them ended up paying 50,000 Baht. Just this "margin" makes me wonder if this is legit or if this is just another ripoff.

These people are not government officials, they appear to work for the "Music Industry"...

I do not own or operate a bar, but I frequent quite a few regularly, by the way.

Now the reason I am bringing up this subject.

This group of people showed up at one of my favorite places, and to make the long story short, they dragged them to the police station and released them after they paid 50,000 Baht.

The only thing I am not getting is, that they did not own a PC that was playing MP3s, AND they only own ORIGINAL CDs... they were scared to get in trouble if they own pirated CDs or a computer with MP3s! (it's almost funny now...)

After them being "fined" (or how I see it "robbed") I start to wonder HOW you can actually have legally music in a bar or retaurant??

Has anyone ever heard of this happening?

All I am thinking is, that if I would be the owner, this would probably be the first time where I would simply refuse to pay under the table and take it to court. This seems to be the biggest fraud/rippoff I have heard that is bar related, or am I wrong?

Is there any way you know of to check on these people, I find it hard to believe they collect and deliver this money to any record company or music business related organization..

Your comment is very much appreciated.

Edited August 26, 2007 by jbhh

[tuktukmike]

In the UK all pubs/clubs or any other establishment must pay to play any type of music or vids.

The monies are paid direct to MCPS-PRS.

Below is a guideline of costs for Uk bars/clubs.

Page 4

Tariff ‘P’ 2006.10)

3.4.1

Bar area up to 120 square metres

Higher royalty

Standard royalty

3.4.1.1

Stand-alone radio* ..........................................

£120.33

£80.22

(£115.70)

(£77.13)

3.4.1.2

Stand-alone television* and/or system

television* .....................................................

£96.27

£64.18

(£92.57)

(£61.71)

3.4.1.3

Record and/or compact disc and/or tape player*

and/or digital music service* ............................

£240.69

£160.46

(£231.44)

(£154.29)

3.4.1.4

Music centre and/or radio-cassette player

and/or CD radio-cassette player* ......................

£299.10

£199.40

(£287.60)

(£191.73)

3.4.1.5

Video player* (with or without television facilities

through the same screen) ...............................

£144.44

£96.29

(£138.89)

(£92.59)

3.4.2

Bar area 121 square metres or more

Higher royalty

Standard royalty

3.4.2.1

Stand-alone radio* ..........................................

£180.50

£120.33

(£173.55)

(£115.70)

3.4.2.2

Stand-alone television* and/or system television*....

£144.41

£96.27

(£138.86)

(£92.57)

3.4.2.3

Record and/or compact disc and/or tape player*

and/or digital music service* ............................

£361.04

£240.69

(£347.16)

(£231.44)

3.4.2.4

Music centre and/or radio-cassette player

and/or CD radio-cassette player* ......................

£448.65

£299.10

(£431.40)

(£287.60)

3.4.2.5

Video player* (with or without television facilities

through the same screen) ...............................

£216.66

£144.44

(£208.34)

(£138.89

Just recently on television there has been a lot of news coverage about how China are cracking down on pirate music,

My understanding is that some bars were in fact using their computers which had huge amounts of music downloaded on.

I also understand that reciepts were not given in the cases where people were fined.

The simple answer is to contact the Embassy of your origin, Keep the number on your mobile phone and let them speak with these people.

Something simular happend to us and we paid up like idiots, dont pay unless they have a genuine case against you. And always demand a reciept as proof of payment.

Mike.

[cdnvic]

I think similar incidents were occurring in Pattaya a year or so ago. Must say it's pretty selective the way they enforce copyright in Thailand.

[Tony Clifton]

Heard of it before as well. Seems to be music industry thugs collecting as they wish.

The police station must get a cut for their collaboration, as usual.

Do you think Thai artists get a single satang from the colection?

[fat boy slim]

This has happened alot in Pattaya and to many of my friends who have bars. Basically every one got fined the standard 50,000 baht, but the upshot was they were told the reason why they were getting fined was for not having a music license. to which all my friends have now bought one. ( I think about 2000 baht per year)

Nobody is sure who the "Group" of people were, but police acompanied them. Everybody now has music licenses but are still not sure if you can only play original cd's or what.

Nobody dare play anything from a computer, original or not. One friend got fined 50,000 baht for having music on a computer. The laugh was that he bought the computer from someone else, it wasn't his music, he never plays music in his bar and the best was it wasn't even plugged in or were there any speakers connected to it or anywhere in the bar too.

Plus he lost his computer.

What a set of T##ts

Some bars have resorted to playing music from the UBC radio stations through their speakers.

To me it's just another example of low season f##ck a farang policy.

It would be nice if our friendly neighbourhood plod would explain what is required, people don't even know now and my friend's lawyers haven't got a clue either

[ovenman]

To me it's just another example of low season f##ck a farang policy.

More likely it's just another opportunity to get a few more snouts into the trough.

[TheWalkingMan]

From what I understand, this is just another scam to collect funds.

I read somewhere that a bar owner contacted the copyright agency and they had no idea about the collections. I read another story where a hotel was stitched up for x amount of baht for having music on a pc. When the hotel lounge video surveillance system was reviewed, the owner saw one of the scammers using the pc the day before.

My guess is that they are working this scam across Thailand as easy money. For bar owners, get the music license! It is cheap, cheap, cheap!!

Here is the first step to getting "legal" 1stopmusic.com Download the information leaflet and contact them by phone.

There is also a license for Banglamung and presumbly other areas have one also.

I believe that you are within your rights to video, take pictures of people inside your business. Take a few snaps as they might come in handy.

Good luck!

TheWalkingMan

[goonerthegooner]

Several bars got '''''fined'''' in Takiap,for playing cd's,orignal and copys.[Ranging from 25,000 too 35,000 Baht]This is another way too extort money from Farang,and generally @@@k people off.No wonder there has been an 25% increase of Farang closing down their companies.What next,a licence for showing football on UBC,what a warm welcome for the ''''New Tourist''''',the LOS want so desperatly,no music in the bars,no god dam tv,you watch,the smoking policy will be enforced soon,no smoking in an A/C bar etc.

As we say,the last Farang too leave the LOS,switch off the light will you.

[KhaoNiaw]

This is another way too extort money from Farang,and generally @@@k people off.No wonder there has been an 25% increase of Farang closing down their companies.

This has been going on for many years and does not only target farangs.

[tuktukmike]

UBC may well be the next target.

In most of the world any bars/clubs have to pay an increased subscription to the sattellite/cable operator.

Its something worth thinking about in the future, If they can find a way to get more money from you then bet on it.

They Will.

Mike.

[terryp]

This is Not a rip off; this is a genuine enforcement of Copyright/Performers writers etc.

This has been going on for at least a decade in Europe and the US (More than 20 years for Radio stations..called needle time), Even hair dressers have to have PRS license to play the radio

PRS Thailand have been operating for at least the last 10 years that I know of…Under the guidance of PRS (UK)

It has absolutely NOTHING to do with copy music/mp3/computers or Original cd’s etc etc …it is the fact that music made and produced by someone is being used as a tool for that business to generate profit (not personal use as all c’d/dvd’s have stamped on the inner sleeve notes)

UBC has already started to put a disclaimer saying subscription is for personal viewing not for commercial interest

As for all the shouting about Falangs being rip off …totally stupid

For any business it is the OWNERS responsibility to check what license requirements are needed for that business …bet they all have the 2 cigarette license’s, even if they don’t sell cigarettes…bottom line it is mostly the accountants/legal advisors who don’t really have a clue what they are doing..just take your money every month

BTW you also need a license if you play just the vision NO sound from a TV…in a commercial business environment (bars etc)

Edited August 28, 2007 by terryp

[tuktukmike]

terryp

Cant argue with your post to be honest.

As said, in most countries you do have to pay for any type of entertainment.

The UBC thing is sure to be next, I know landlords in the UK have to pay quite a bit extra for use in their bars.

Mike.

[soundman]

In Australia, the AFTA liscensing fee for playing recorded music in night clubs has jumped from $0.07 to over $1.50 per person calculated on the holding capacity of the venue x trading nights per week.

If your venue is liscenced for 300 patrons, but only 35 come, you still pay $1.50 x 300. Stupid and un-workable situation.

Almost a 1500% increase with no fore-warning to the industry.

Do any of the dance music artists see any of this money. Very rarely.

Soundman.