The Local Exchange Trading System (LETS) :

Argentina 2001: The Protocol That Saved Ordinary People

I joined the first LETS in France [or S.E.L. in French], the 'Pyrenean' one, at the time it was formed in 1992. A great idea in both economic and social terms. When an economy collapses, society tends to come unglued.

The French Social Security organisation tried to close the SEL by bringing criminal charges against some of our members on the grounds they were working outside the legal framework, which required huge social security charges.

[2,400 francs per year irrespective of earnings, which could be additionally subject to income tax, when I enquired in the early 1980s]

The accuseds'defence was that they were merely offering one another mutual assistance, as customary amongst rural communities since time immemorial.

Surprisingly, the court ruled in favour of the defendants. We all breathed a sigh of relief.

That Youtube video is almost certainly AI generated.

Doesn't mean it's all BS, but it might be hard to decipher fact from fear-mongering.

Edited May 17May 17 by save the frogs

Gold and silver would have saved them.

1 minute ago, FlorC said:

Gold and silver would have saved them.

or lead.

6 minutes ago, lou norman said:

or lead.

For what ? Rob others ?

7 hours ago, FlorC said:

Gold and silver would have saved them.

I have recommended putting aside gold and silver for many years. And started doing so myself more than a dozen years ago. That enables major purchases after the balloon goes up and paper money either becomes valueless (hyperinflation) or unobtainable (deflation).

Precious metals are a store of value through major crises.

I had to sell some gold Britannias over the past year or two to pay hospital fees not covered by my insurance. Better than paying with currency stored in a bank account.

But why buy gold or silver with fiat currency only to give it away unnecessarily - when you can grow, or produce, or or provide services, that others need to obtain what you yourself need ?

The S.E.L. system can have an advantage over direct barter. For example I sold on SEL credit an unwanted wood-burning stove to someone who needed one. I used some of my credit to purchase from a German woman potter at a SEL market a tea-pot for my brother's birthday.

People living in modern cities may have difficulty understanding the idea of barter. But I was privileged more than half a century ago to live amongst peasant farmers in the Dordogne area of France, where there was much give-and-take between the different families within a community; Without any strict accounting. Families took turns to help one another, for example at harvest time. And they produced much of their own food.

And in later years, in the Aude, at moments of need (such as a major pour of concrete) I helped friends rebuilding a ruin and in return they helped me. No payment. Just a feast of food and wine at the day's end. As in the Dordogne.

These ideas are great on paper, but they dont really work. I seen this in the US decades ago. The company i worked for signed up for a program like this.

The issue was not enough variety of services or goods and issues with keeping track of credits, refunds, satisfactory work.

then the other issue is your product or service is being used and you get all these credits, but then you have no services or products that you can use in the system.

I stick with gold!!

1 hour ago, ericthai said:

These ideas are great on paper, but they dont really work. I seen this in the US decades ago. The company i worked for signed up for a program like this.

The issue was not enough variety of services or goods and issues with keeping track of credits, refunds, satisfactory work.

then the other issue is your product or service is being used and you get all these credits, but then you have no services or products that you can use in the system.

I stick with gold!!

Go with what works for you.

But just bear in mind that the world is changing.

Well, one has to just look at all the major currencies and pretty much everyone of them is subject to Inflation. The Euro has lost at least 110% of its buying power since its introduction, while gold and silver went up 15 times in value over the same time period. Buying gold and silver is a no brainer!

Before any possible collapse, the monetary system will do what it has always done: print money.

This causes serious inflation, and this is the reason for hard assets like gold, BTC, performing companies, and real estate.

During a real collapse, gold is not much help, as no one really needs it. But it will be valuable on the other side of the disaster.

It is a Ponzi scheme and they try to run it as long as possible.

Is gold that important? "My"country sold long ago 600 tons of the gold they had, leaving another 600 tons.

We are with too many people on this earth, but needed for Ponzi scheme to continu.

I wonder what will happen if Elon Musk is right. He said, in 10-20 years no one has to work anymore.

All is taken over then by AI and robots. SO then what?

51 minutes ago, xtrnuno41 said:

All is taken over then by AI and robots. SO then what?

You will own nothing and be happy eating Zee bugs..

resist now before its too late.

On 5/17/2026 at 10:56 AM, FlorC said:

For what ? Rob others ?

Yes it may well come to that..those with lead AKA bullets can steal at gun point the

properties of any without the lead to fight back.

Predicted since forever. 🙄

23 hours ago, ericbj said:

Go with what works for you.

But just bear in mind that the world is changing.

lol.. very well aware of that!!!

When I first came to Thailand it was paradise! At that time Thailand only got about 3-4 million tourists a year.

No Chinese running around the place with their little flags!! Now it's jammed packed!!

What exactly should I "bare" in mind? I dont see gold ever loosing it's value.

1 hour ago, ericthai said:

lol.. very well aware of that!!!

When I first came to Thailand it was paradise! At that time Thailand only got about 3-4 million tourists a year.

No Chinese running around the place with their little flags!! Now it's jammed packed!!

What exactly should I "bare" in mind? I dont see gold ever loosing it's value.

Oh yes, Gold can lose it's value. There have been massive Bear Markets for Gold. Between 1980 and 1985 from 760 down to 380. Between 2011 to 2015 from 1800 down to 1100.

Assuming a monetary system collapses. it's basically always the same story. Food and cigarettes are king. (Black market economy).

After WW2, in Germany, cigarettes were the medium of exchange, replacing a worthless currency. Gold versus food? Yes, but Gold sold below value on the farm to buy food. Farmers, that knew how to play the black market game made good money.

Another good medium of exchange was the US Dollar. Few Germans had Dollars. In todays constellation, the US Dollar will not be able to serve the same purpose as it did before.

1 hour ago, swissie said:

Oh yes, Gold can lose it's value. There have been massive Bear Markets for Gold. Between 1980 and 1985 from 760 down to 380. Between 2011 to 2015 from 1800 down to 1100.

Gold may go up and down in price, but it’s not dependent on any government, company or digital system surviving.

It holds value almost anywhere in the world.

A barter credit system is still a controlled system. Someone controls the credits, the rules, the disputes and the enforcement.

So, then you have to ask:
Who’s running it?
Who’s auditing it?
Who gets paid to settle disputes?
What happens when rules change or credits get manipulated?

That’s why I’d still rather hold gold than a government or someone else’s promise.

35 minutes ago, ericthai said:

Gold may go up and down in price, but it’s not dependent on any government, company or digital system surviving.

It holds value almost anywhere in the world.

A barter credit system is still a controlled system. Someone controls the credits, the rules, the disputes and the enforcement.

So, then you have to ask:
Who’s running it?
Who’s auditing it?
Who gets paid to settle disputes?
What happens when rules change or credits get manipulated?

That’s why I’d still rather hold gold than a government or someone else’s promise.

Correct. Longer term, Gold remains Gold. Since the old Egyptians.

But during "the great depression", Roosevelt collected all private Gold, making "private Gold holdings" illegal. Only Richard Nixon allowed Americans to hold Gold again.

Can happen again.

12 hours ago, ericthai said:

Gold may go up and down in price, but it’s not dependent on any government, company or digital system surviving.

It holds value almost anywhere in the world.

A barter credit system is still a controlled system. Someone controls the credits, the rules, the disputes and the enforcement.

So, then you have to ask:
Who’s running it?
Who’s auditing it?
Who gets paid to settle disputes?
What happens when rules change or credits get manipulated?

That’s why I’d still rather hold gold than a government or someone else’s promise.

If you experience it and your fears are realised you are in the wrong S.E.L.

In the S.E.L. I was a member of for a number of years, your fears were not realised.

There was a problem for a while which was resolved. A very few people came into the system, bought on credit ("grains of salt"), ran up debt, and then departed with a large debit. It was resolved by strictly limiting the credit a member could take out initially. It was never a major problem because the organisation was LOCAL in a rural area of villages and small towns. Members were not anonymous, they were known to others.

The organisation was run by the members who appointed those with specific responsibilities. Sale/purchase chits were forwarded to the person responsible for accounts which were done on computer (fairly early days, 1992; though I had used a Tandy 1000 portable, 16 KB of ROM + 16 KB of RAM. as early as 1986)).

Members paid a small fiat subscription to cover fiat admin costs. Every month a list of members, their details, etc., was posted to each member (could be sent electronically these days).

The S.E.L. initially covered mainly the Ariège and the Limouxin part of the Aude. The experiment was successful and some years later another S.E.L. started, covering the Limoux area and so many in the latter area switched. I eventually dropped out in the new millennium because of no longer being present full-time. I was then spending half of each year in Thailand as an unpaid volunteer English-language teacher to refugees.

18 hours ago, ericthai said:

Gold may go up and down in price, but it’s not dependent on any government, company or digital system surviving.

It holds value almost anywhere in the world.

A barter credit system is still a controlled system. Someone controls the credits, the rules, the disputes and the enforcement.

So, then you have to ask:
Who’s running it?
Who’s auditing it?
Who gets paid to settle disputes?
What happens when rules change or credits get manipulated?

That’s why I’d still rather hold gold than a government or someone else’s promise.

Can't eat gold. Not to fill your belly anyway. Polynesian nations used shells as a form of currency. Can't eat them either.

I think it was the American Indians who had a saying along the lines of ' when the last river is poisened and the last tree is dead, then you will realise you can't eat money'.

Edited May 20May 20 by emptypockets

On 5/19/2026 at 8:03 PM, timendres said:

Before any possible collapse, the monetary system will do what it has always done: print money.

This causes serious inflation, and this is the reason for hard assets like gold, BTC, performing companies, and real estate.

During a real collapse, gold is not much help, as no one really needs it. But it will be valuable on the other side of the disaster.

BTC is not a hard asset. It is a concept of imagined worth with no intrinsic value. Much the same as a casino chip. Can be worth a lot as long as the casino agrees to convert it to cash.

19 hours ago, ericthai said:

Gold may go up and down in price, but it’s not dependent on any government, company or digital system surviving.

It holds value almost anywhere in the world.

A barter credit system is still a controlled system. Someone controls the credits, the rules, the disputes and the enforcement.

So, then you have to ask:
Who’s running it?
Who’s auditing it?
Who gets paid to settle disputes?
What happens when rules change or credits get manipulated?

That’s why I’d still rather hold gold than a government or someone else’s promise.

A barter system can be quite simple.

I have a cabbage. You have a potato or three. Want to swap?

15 minutes ago, emptypockets said:

A barter system can be quite simple.

I have a cabbage. You have a potato or three. Want to swap?

I have a cow and you have some magic beans

I thought this was going to be about bitcoin and how it was going to save us all...

1 hour ago, emptypockets said:

A barter system can be quite simple.

I have a cabbage. You have a potato or three. Want to swap?

I understand that and it's simple when you want to trade with someone else. but when you putting out good or services and getting "credits"

for other services then who controls things? If I'm not happy with the service? As I said I'll stick with Gold!

19 hours ago, swissie said:

Correct. Longer term, Gold remains Gold. Since the old Egyptians.

But during "the great depression", Roosevelt collected all private Gold, making "private Gold holdings" illegal. Only Richard Nixon allowed Americans to hold Gold again.

Can happen again.

sure it can happen again, but history shows it will rebound.

So do you prefer to hold on to cash or gold?

Just now, ericthai said:

sure it can happen again, but history shows it will rebound.

So do you prefer to hold on to cash or gold?

I prefer to hold guns and ammo!

Failing that, shelf stable foods.

21 hours ago, swissie said:

Correct. Longer term, Gold remains Gold. Since the old Egyptians.

But during "the great depression", Roosevelt collected all private Gold, making "private Gold holdings" illegal. Only Richard Nixon allowed Americans to hold Gold again.

Can happen again.

I do not believe Roosevelt confiscated all private gold although he certainly confiscated a lot but not all that he wanted. He got what was held in safe deposit boxes in banks. Draw your own conclusions as to the advisability of holding it there. Plus the risk of a much prolonged Bank Holiday.

And why did he need the gold? Because the dollar was gold-backed and he wanted to print a lot more dollars.

If Trump makes the dollar gold-backed and Fort Knox and the New York Fed do not have the 8,000 tons claimed, beware !

And anyone who does not hold gold these days is either a pauper or living in a surreal world.

And 'spending' gold unnecessarily is not advisable. If the system collapses (heaven forbid) and one is in a country or area (e.g. big city) that has to import its food from elsewhere, food may be in very short supply and therefore very valuable, even in terms of gold, which is unpalatable. So maybe best to possess food you can eat and some you can exchange for other food. Specialisation of production.

Overall I guess Thailand fairly well adapted by land area and climate to survive hard times.

I remember reading decades ago of how there had been an economic crisis in Indonesia. Millions out of work. No "social security" of the official kind. Workers just went back to the villages from which they had come. Not so easy these days. In France, an agricultural country, just after the War 47% of the population lived on the land. Now I think somewhere less than 3%. Modern landholdings are suited to agribusiness not subsistence.

On 5/20/2026 at 1:53 PM, emptypockets said:

Can't eat gold. Not to fill your belly anyway. Polynesian nations used shells as a form of currency. Can't eat them either.

I think it was the American Indians who had a saying along the lines of ' when the last river is poisened and the last tree is dead, then you will realise you can't eat money'.

I belive it was "Chief Joseph". Chief of one of the Northwestern tribes. What he said was true back then and even more so today.