Why Is It So..

[khall64au]

Over the years, there are many stories of Burmese workers being murdered by their employers (I suppose cheaper than paying them). There is a problem and its not only farangs who are aware of it:

In the minds of most Thais, there are wicked stereotypes of Burmese migrant workers as stealing jobs, as being vehicles for contagious diseases, as criminals, as a threat to national security and as an historical enemy.

Although our fellow countrymen exploit, harass, extort and even kill Burmese workers on a daily basis, we block out this brutality from our minds. We don't care if these people suffer, if their children do not receive an education, if they exist at all.

http://www.asiarecipe.com/cgi/CM/webbbs_co...frames/read/160

The shocking thing about life out of the west is just how cheap life is.

And even more shocking, to me, is how little most care.

[7summers]

Ok folks... Thanks for putting in your two satangs...

Makes me thinking.. for sure..

Moderator.. Nough said.. Pin this down or close it..

7

[Totster]

Topic re-opened

totster

[Jingthing]

Thanks for reopening this as this is a worthy topic and I don't remember it being discussed much here before. It does seem that the thread has gotten "heavier" than the OP intended, but thats what life is like sometimes, unintended consequences.

[donna]

i see no reason to close it down as long as we keep it nice. this is a very interesting thread and one that i see no harm in discussing at all.

[seonai]

I believe this might be the same guy Khall mentioned earlier in this thread... When I knew this Burmese chap he was a gardner and one day he asked me to come to their shanty town on Phuket for a wedding. They treated me as if I was the queen!!! I got the only chair, was waited on hand and foot and had photos taken with the bride and groom who I didn't know from Adam. It was a wonderful experience

[7summers]

Hi..!

Yes.. I like it to stay open.. I just didnt want to bother you if the thread just went too long...

But yes..It is a very interesting topic.. and of course an important one..

thanks for all your input..

7

[markg]

I was up at the Phuket Big Buddha today to look at the view and check on progress.

Guess who is building it.................

So it's ok for the Burmese to build the largest Buddha image in Thailand.

But not to go out after 8pm

It's ok for the Burmese to build an everlasting tribute to Lord Buddha,

But they can't own or even use a mobile phone.

It's ok for the Burmese to build a beautiful statue which has been blessed by HM the Princess

But they have barely any human rights.

I agree, no one forced the Burmese to come here, and if they are willing to come here voluntarily then lord only knows how bad things are back in Burma.

I also agree that Thailand is free to put what constraints it wants on immigrants - Farangs included of course. That is their right, however, when these constraints are clearly racist AND also go against just about all Buddhist teachings of Sila, then i have a problem with it.

I have a problem with racism to other human beings.

I have a problem with hypocritical Buddhist officials going against the 5 precepts, e.g. To refrain from taking that which is not freely given (stealing) and to try to observe moral purity of thought, word, and deed.

I don't really want to tell Thailand how it should change.

However, i don't want to be part of the problem either. Just treating all humans fairly, equally and pleasantly is a start.

[Super Hans]

It's also ok for Burmese women to work on building sites (is that sexist? Probably, but it surprised me to see women mixing cement and lumping bricks around etc). I'm also pretty sure I've seen children working on sites too.

[Solosiam]

I was up at the Phuket Big Buddha today to look at the view and check on progress.

Guess who is building it.................

So it's ok for the Burmese to build the largest Buddha image in Thailand.

But not to go out after 8pm

It's ok for the Burmese to build an everlasting tribute to Lord Buddha,

But they can't own or even use a mobile phone.

It's ok for the Burmese to build a beautiful statue which has been blessed by HM the Princess

But they have barely any human rights.

I agree, no one forced the Burmese to come here, and if they are willing to come here voluntarily then lord only knows how bad things are back in Burma.

I also agree that Thailand is free to put what constraints it wants on immigrants - Farangs included of course. That is their right, however, when these constraints are clearly racist AND also go against just about all Buddhist teachings of Sila, then i have a problem with it.

I have a problem with racism to other human beings.

I have a problem with hypocritical Buddhist officials going against the 5 precepts, e.g. To refrain from taking that which is not freely given (stealing) and to try to observe moral purity of thought, word, and deed.

I don't really want to tell Thailand how it should change.

However, i don't want to be part of the problem either. Just treating all humans fairly, equally and pleasantly is a start.

So you'll be volunteering to go up and build the statue for 100 baht a day then?

I don't recall Buddha mentioning anything about mobile phones, or motorcycles.

So lets recount... People employing the Burmese are Nazi's, partaking in Slavery and are directly going against the words of Buddha by not letting them have mobile phones...

What a load of crap, I can take it that all you guys commenting on how disgusting this is , and that all humans are equal you all won't mind just accepting the world's average income and donating all your excess money, yeah right, didn't think so.

[markg]

It's also ok for Burmese women to work on building sites (is that sexist? Probably, but it surprised me to see women mixing cement and lumping bricks around etc). I'm also pretty sure I've seen children working on sites too.

No Hans - equality means equal.

It would be inequality to NOT let women work in a building site. I see absolutely no problem with this.

You either have equality or you dont.

You cant have equality with caveats.

[Super Hans]

I was up at the Phuket Big Buddha today to look at the view and check on progress.

Guess who is building it.................

So it's ok for the Burmese to build the largest Buddha image in Thailand.

But not to go out after 8pm

It's ok for the Burmese to build an everlasting tribute to Lord Buddha,

But they can't own or even use a mobile phone.

It's ok for the Burmese to build a beautiful statue which has been blessed by HM the Princess

But they have barely any human rights.

I agree, no one forced the Burmese to come here, and if they are willing to come here voluntarily then lord only knows how bad things are back in Burma.

I also agree that Thailand is free to put what constraints it wants on immigrants - Farangs included of course. That is their right, however, when these constraints are clearly racist AND also go against just about all Buddhist teachings of Sila, then i have a problem with it.

I have a problem with racism to other human beings.

I have a problem with hypocritical Buddhist officials going against the 5 precepts, e.g. To refrain from taking that which is not freely given (stealing) and to try to observe moral purity of thought, word, and deed.

I don't really want to tell Thailand how it should change.

However, i don't want to be part of the problem either. Just treating all humans fairly, equally and pleasantly is a start.

So you'll be volunteering to go up and build the statue for 100 baht a day then?

I don't recall Buddha mentioning anything about mobile phones, or motorcycles.

So lets recount... People employing the Burmese are Nazi's, partaking in Slavery and are directly going against the words of Buddha by not letting them have mobile phones...

What a load of crap, I can take it that all you guys commenting on how disgusting this is , and that all humans are equal you all won't mind just accepting the world's average income and donating all your excess money, yeah right, didn't think so.

To be honest mate, I don't think there's a lot wrong with showing empathy for people living in appalling conditions, irrespective of circumstance. Let's not forget the Burmese are here, at least in part, to escape a repressive regime in their own country. Basically, they're buggered wherever they are, but highlighting the problems they face may help change attitudes.

And we are ALL hypocrites if you want to analyse things so deeply...

[Jingthing]

What a load of crap, I can take it that all you guys commenting on how disgusting this is , and that all humans are equal you all won't mind just accepting the world's average income and donating all your excess money, yeah right, didn't think so.

Not really sure what you are getting at.

I do think all humans are equal in that all humans deserve to be treated with basic human decency. Obviously, poverty will always be with us. Murdering workers so you don't have to pay them is something that will be considered criminal and unjust by ethical people all over the world. If you are saying that people who have sympathy for exploited people should become communists and divest of all their wealth or they have no right to speak and are just hypocrites, well, thats absurd. I don't see your logic at all.

Edited September 1, 2007 by Jingthing

[Super Hans]

It's also ok for Burmese women to work on building sites (is that sexist? Probably, but it surprised me to see women mixing cement and lumping bricks around etc). I'm also pretty sure I've seen children working on sites too.

No Hans - equality means equal.

It would be inequality to NOT let women work in a building site. I see absolutely no problem with this.

You either have equality or you dont.

You cant have equality with caveats.

I agree - was just saying it's not something I've seen in the west, is all. But does your point about the universality of equality extend to children working on building sites? Maybe it's more of an ethical discussion, but are there child labour laws in Thailand, and if so, do they apply as equally to Burmese children?

[roietjimmy]

Nobody seems to talk about what I originally posted..

Why cant the Burmese use a mobile phone...

Why cant they stay out after eight...

And finally.. why cant they drive a car.....?

If the good governor of Phuket can be believed it is because it is the law/rules as defined by their work visas so rich Burmese tourists/business people do not have the same restrictions. I too am astounded by these rules but of more interest to me is what in the world was the justification or thinking for the restrictions. Some of my thoughts on what was going through the minds of the rule makers are:

Burmese workers cannot use mobile phones because they will use them to coordinate a plot to overthrow the government. Besides they can all speak pretty good English and our security forces listening in will not be able to understand them.

They cannot stay out after 8PM because they will be most likely to carry out their plan at night.

They cannot drive cars because if they have to walk all the way to Bangkok in force we have a 10% chance of intercepting them along the way.

[kat]

I went to Thailand to work with Burmese dissidents, migrants and refugees, and to conduct research on the land confiscation and ethnic cleansing by the Burmese Military of ethnic land, villages, and property inside the ethnic territories of Eastern Burma. First of all, the extent of human rights violations inside Burma defies belief for most Westerners, because we have nothing within our own realities that even comes close - and that includes comparing the illegal immigration of Mexicans to the United States.

Burma is only third on the list of the world's worst human rights violations, preceded only by Darfur and North Korea. I find it incredible that anyone would deny that genocide is not occurring in Darfur or Burma simply because they are not Europeans or not being shoved into ovens; does being hacked, raped, bludgeoned, burned and starved to death based on ethnicity in a systematic manner not qualify as genocide? Again, I find it incredible that anyone would even attempt to deny this point with the information now available. Therefore, by repetitively bleating that they can go back to Burma reveals your own ignorance of the full extent of the situation. There are more than 1 million internally displaced ethnic Burmese living in the upper jungles of Burma eating grass and shoots, and risking their lives and the lives of their children because they are terrified of going back to their villages. For the approximately 2 million in Thailand, many of the conditions concerning the government don't vary significantly enough from Burma. And why should it? The outlandish, rogue, money-laundering and drug allied government of Burma have been closely allied with Thailand for decades now. The Thai military elite have made millions from smuggling the Teak forests of Burma into Northern Thailand, as well as their daughters and migrant laborers. In the modern era of technology, it was Thaksin and the cozy relationship between Bagan Satellite Company and the junta's rich drug mercenary dynasties. It has been absolutely disgusting what has occurred, and even more so to hear people and their glib dismissals of it.

Burmese migrants are arrested on the streets, thrown into prisons whether they are legal refugees or not, not given clean water, raped and beaten as a matter of routine, and held indefinitely with no charges. Even workers with papers are totally at the mercy of their employers, and frequently work for months without getting paid sub-minimum wage. They have to pay a higher market rate for cramped, shared, lodgings, can be arrested if they are found outside of a certain radius from the place of their employment, and are ALWAYS under threat of being arrested and deported just by the SUGGESTION or ALLEGATION that they did something wrong. There have been NUMEROUS documented cases that have surfaced even in the Nation and Bangkok Post of Burmese workers being given methamphetimines (sp) in their coffee, threatened and intimidated to accept being cheated out of their wages, and then deported when they try to obtain the basic human right of being paid for their labor. Unfortunately, there are also plenty of stories of them being murdered and disappeared as well. In all fairness, this is not only in Thailand but in most of SE Asia. Let's not even get started on what occurs to Indonesian maids in advanced and developed Singapore.

Does this mean that all Thais feel this way? Of course not - I have seen Thais who rushed to bail out some of the Burmese migrants that I got to know who ironically were able to tutor the Thais for the TOEFL exams. But, I have seen with my own eyes what the systematic effect that this culture of slave labor really means, and it's real.

To answer the question about the mobile phones and motorbikes: it comes down to politically organizing. Many of the Burmese migrants in Bangkok and the North were organizing resistance against the Burmese junta, and were successfully teaming up with Western researchers and NGOs. I was there when Thaksin made a couple of his famous comments against the UN and NGO workers, and actually working on this issue with a group that was arrested. I saw how the group of Burmese migrants I was working with were locked up for more than 2 years for simply protesting in front of the Burmese Embassy. And, I saw how others were followed and rounded up, sometimes by using the cell phones of the others who were arrested. It escalated to the point that every Burmese "person of concern" in Thailand had to report to an immigration prison to be locked up and deported, or sent to a camp. Remember that? Look it up.

As for the rich Burmese in Thailand, I want you think for a moment: if they have not emigrated during the flood of the wealthy and educated leaving when Ne Win and his thugs first took over, how do you think they came about the privilege now to travel about the world on a Burmese passport? It's common sense.

* Person of Concern is the UN terminology for a recognized refugee in Thailand. They do not call them refugees, because Thailand does not recognize the fact that they are fleeing for their lives. This is also true. Look it up.

Edited September 1, 2007 by kat

[Solosiam]

So are you still working with the Burmese on fixing their problems? Or simply moved onto the next story/paycheck?

I doubt that many of the Burmese building homes in Phuket are political dissidents, more likely economic refugees.

You can preach, if you are CURRENTLY doing a lot to try to solve the situation, If not you are just spouting a lot of crap to make yourself feel good. Honestly who has posted on this topic that is really doing something to genuinely help the Burmese workers?

[Jingthing]

So are you still working with the Burmese on fixing their problems? Or simply moved onto the next story/paycheck?

I doubt that many of the Burmese building homes in Phuket are political dissidents, more likely economic refugees.

You can preach, if you are CURRENTLY doing a lot to try to solve the situation, If not you are just spouting a lot of crap to make yourself feel good. Honestly who has posted on this topic that is really doing something to genuinely help the Burmese workers?

Hmmm. One person's preaching is another person's very informative post. I don't understand why you would attack Kat personally about this. It isn't relevant what she is doing now. She had experiences and has a perspective and certainly knows alot about the subject. If you don't agree with her points, attack her points, not her. If you did read her post, I don't see how you took from it that the Burmese workers are simply ECONOMIC refugees.

Edited September 1, 2007 by Jingthing

[sbk]

You are absolutely correct Jingthing, thank you for making it clear.

Let me add, there will not be personal attacks made in this thread.

[Rinrada]

Burmese workers are simply ECONOMIC refugees.

Loads of English refugees living in Pattti...so same diff...yea ..cuski.....er jubli.....

[Felt 35]

I went to Thailand to work with Burmese dissidents, migrants and refugees, and to conduct research on the land confiscation and ethnic cleansing by the Burmese Military of ethnic land, villages, and property inside the ethnic territories of Eastern Burma. First of all, the extent of human rights violations inside Burma defies belief for most Westerners, because we have nothing within our own realities that even comes close - and that includes comparing the illegal immigration of Mexicans to the United States.

Burma is only third on the list of the world's worst human rights violations, preceded only by Darfur and North Korea. I find it incredible that anyone would deny that genocide is not occurring in Darfur or Burma simply because they are not Europeans or not being shoved into ovens; does being hacked, raped, bludgeoned, burned and starved to death based on ethnicity in a systematic manner not qualify as genocide? Again, I find it incredible that anyone would even attempt to deny this point with the information now available. Therefore, by repetitively bleating that they can go back to Burma reveals your own ignorance of the full extent of the situation. There are more than 1 million internally displaced ethnic Burmese living in the upper jungles of Burma eating grass and shoots, and risking their lives and the lives of their children because they are terrified of going back to their villages. For the approximately 2 million in Thailand, many of the conditions concerning the government don't vary significantly enough from Burma. And why should it? The outlandish, rogue, money-laundering and drug allied government of Burma have been closely allied with Thailand for decades now. The Thai military elite have made millions from smuggling the Teak forests of Burma into Northern Thailand, as well as their daughters and migrant laborers. In the modern era of technology, it was Thaksin and the cozy relationship between Bagan Satellite Company and the junta's rich drug mercenary dynasties. It has been absolutely disgusting what has occurred, and even more so to hear people and their glib dismissals of it.

Burmese migrants are arrested on the streets, thrown into prisons whether they are legal refugees or not, not given clean water, raped and beaten as a matter of routine, and held indefinitely with no charges. Even workers with papers are totally at the mercy of their employers, and frequently work for months without getting paid sub-minimum wage. They have to pay a higher market rate for cramped, shared, lodgings, can be arrested if they are found outside of a certain radius from the place of their employment, and are ALWAYS under threat of being arrested and deported just by the SUGGESTION or ALLEGATION that they did something wrong. There have been NUMEROUS documented cases that have surfaced even in the Nation and Bangkok Post of Burmese workers being given methamphetimines (sp) in their coffee, threatened and intimidated to accept being cheated out of their wages, and then deported when they try to obtain the basic human right of being paid for their labor. Unfortunately, there are also plenty of stories of them being murdered and disappeared as well. In all fairness, this is not only in Thailand but in most of SE Asia. Let's not even get started on what occurs to Indonesian maids in advanced and developed Singapore.

Does this mean that all Thais feel this way? Of course not - I have seen Thais who rushed to bail out some of the Burmese migrants that I got to know who ironically were able to tutor the Thais for the TOEFL exams. But, I have seen with my own eyes what the systematic effect that this culture of slave labor really means, and it's real.

To answer the question about the mobile phones and motorbikes: it comes down to politically organizing. Many of the Burmese migrants in Bangkok and the North were organizing resistance against the Burmese junta, and were successfully teaming up with Western researchers and NGOs. I was there when Thaksin made a couple of his famous comments against the UN and NGO workers, and actually working on this issue with a group that was arrested. I saw how the group of Burmese migrants I was working with were locked up for more than 2 years for simply protesting in front of the Burmese Embassy. And, I saw how others were followed and rounded up, sometimes by using the cell phones of the others who were arrested. It escalated to the point that every Burmese "person of concern" in Thailand had to report to an immigration prison to be locked up and deported, or sent to a camp. Remember that? Look it up.

As for the rich Burmese in Thailand, I want you think for a moment: if they have not emigrated during the flood of the wealthy and educated leaving when Ne Win and his thugs first took over, how do you think they came about the privilege now to travel about the world on a Burmese passport? It's common sense.

* Person of Concern is the UN terminology for a recognized refugee in Thailand. They do not call them refugees, because Thailand does not recognize the fact that they are fleeing for their lives. This is also true. Look it up.

Great post. Thanks for telling us the fact even if its sad to read that the world are so unfair.

[kat]

So are you still working with the Burmese on fixing their problems? Or simply moved onto the next story/paycheck?

I doubt that many of the Burmese building homes in Phuket are political dissidents, more likely economic refugees.

You can preach, if you are CURRENTLY doing a lot to try to solve the situation, If not you are just spouting a lot of crap to make yourself feel good. Honestly who has posted on this topic that is really doing something to genuinely help the Burmese workers?

uhm, I spent 4 years of my life working with Burmese refugees and helped resettle 14 of them here to the States, where they are currently rebuilding their lives. I basically fed and clothed them while they were in immigration prison when everyone else forgot about them. It was never about the paycheck, because as a matter of fact I make at least about $20-40,000 less than my peers right now for staying with them in LOS until I knew they could be resettled. What exactly do you do except to post offensive remarks?

And further, all Burmese migrants are fleeing human rights violations even as economic migrants as they are bloody starving to death due to another exorbitant increase in cooking fuel and food prices. In addition, many of them ARE political refugees or literally running for their lives. Hmmm, what a choice - starve, be followed and thrown into the gallows for virtually nothing, or be raped, burned alive, starved, and then blown up with land mines after having all of your property, livestock, and paddy confiscated by the Burmese military and associated thugs. Yep, they have so much choice.

Burmese workers are simply ECONOMIC refugees.

Loads of English refugees living in Pattti...so same diff...yea ..cuski.....er jubli.....

Oh yeah, I'm sure that's the same And your compatriots love to call Americans stupid, right?

[markg]

This thread was about how we treat our fellow man.

Think about it for a minute before attacking peoples's posts.

Opinions, of course, are fine - arent we lucky enough to be able to express them freely............

The Burmese are treated unfairly in Thailand.

Am i actually doing anything about it?

Well, I'm an impoverished teacher of English who doesnt have any power.

But i do as much as i can.

And it starts in the classroom with education about equality and treating human beings decently.

The Buddha's teachings include that.

Of course the Buddha didnt say that Burmese should have mobile phones.............but he did say we should treat our fellow man with decency.

Does anyone actually believe the Burmese are being treated with decency?

All i see is frightened people being treated with some form of contempt and being exploited. Hopefully by educating the next generation of Thais, we can go some way to stopping this cycle of hate.

[Solosiam]

uhm, I spent 4 years of my life working with Burmese refugees and helped resettle 14 of them here to the States, where they are currently rebuilding their lives. I basically fed and clothed them while they were in immigration prison when everyone else forgot about them. It was never about the paycheck, because as a matter of fact I make at least about $20-40,000 less than my peers right now for staying with them in LOS until I knew they could be resettled. What exactly do you do except to post offensive remarks?

And further, all Burmese migrants are fleeing human rights violations even as economic migrants as they are bloody starving to death due to another exorbitant increase in cooking fuel and food prices. In addition, many of them ARE political refugees or literally running for their lives. Hmmm, what a choice - starve, be followed and thrown into the gallows for virtually nothing, or be raped, burned alive, starved, and then blown up with land mines after having all of your property, livestock, and paddy confiscated by the Burmese military and associated thugs. Yep, they have so much choice.

So you are agreeing that they are FAR better off working here then. Thailand is actually very accomodating in terms of refugees from Burma.

The ban on Mobile Phones, curfew etc... has to do with armed Burmese terrorist action in Thailand, they seized control of the Burmese Embassy in Bangkok

and additionally seized a Hospital 3 months later, holding 500 doctors, nurses and patients hostage at the end of a gun, all within 3 months of each other. The controls were tightened and this hasn't happened since, additionally the transport into Thailand from Burma of Metamphetemines is a very big problem,

[khall64au]

Warm welcome for tourists doesn't extend to workers

Province imposes curfew on foreign labourers, tracks their cell phones, bans them from driving cars or motorbikes

Phuket may have acquired a global reputation for warmth and hospitality, but since late last year authorities there have imposed controls on migrant workers that are so stringent they may violate fundamental human rights.

Phuket provincial authorities now prohibit migrant workers from leaving their residence after 8pm, unless they are under the supervision of their employer.

They also keep tabs on their mobile phones and prohibit them from getting behind the wheel or driving a motorbike.

Deputy governor Worapot Ratthasima said yesterday the province had issued 10 such administrative regulations since last December 19.

They are meant to control the 32,070 migrant workers from Burma, Laos and Cambodia who have registered to work on the island since last year.

A labour shortage in Phuket has brought a flood of workers from neighbouring countries.

Another regulation prohibits employers from hiring migrant labourers who lack work permits.

Mobile-phone use is regulated to adhere to the province's security policies.

Employers were required to submit a list of their migrant workers who have mobiles, the registration numbers of the phones and the names of those who own the phones and SIM cards to the provincial authorities, Worapot said.

Phuket will soon hold a meeting for business operators, to ensure that they accurately understand the new rules controlling migrant workers, he said.

Employers will be informed that they are required to provide clean and hygienic accommodation for migrant workers, and the ratio of toilets to workers must meet Public Health Ministry rules.

Worapot warned that those who violated the new regulations would be punished under the Immigration Act of 1979.

Penalties range from a Bt500 fine to three years in jail.

Worapot said Phuket pioneered these regulations, which followed complaints from Thai residents who wanted controls on migrant workers using mobile phones, riding motorcycles and going out at night.

Eight upper-South provinces with a high number of migrant workers have followed Phuket's lead, including Chumphon, Ranong, Surat Thani and Prachuap Khiri Khan.

Migrant workers in Ranong are prohibited from leaving their residence between 10pm and 6am unless their employer gives permission or they face a health emergency, said Governor Kanchanapa Khiman.

Seven regulations for migrant workers have been in effect in the province since February, she said.

In Ranong, migrant workers are prohibited from gathering in groups of five or more - unless they are working - in order to prevent illegal activities, the governor said.

They also face controls on mobile-phone use, she said. The mobile-phone controls are meant to control human trafficking, she added, explaining that investigations found many members of trafficking gangs used mobiles to communicate with each other, and numerous arrests were made from phone records.

The regulations were imposed on migrant workers following discussions on security issues between upper-South provinces and the commander of Army Region 4.

They are also a response to complaints from employers, Kanchanapa said. Some had complained they could not understand when they were listening to their migrant workers speaking Burmese over the phone, she explained.

Most employers are satisfied now that the regulations are in effect, she said.

Despite the controls, migrant workers can still use mobile phones but only under certain conditions, she said, adding that the regulation was not a violation of their human rights, but rather a move to protect national security.

National Human Rights Commissioner Surasee Kosolnavin disagrees.

It is a basic human right to allow people to speak with each other, he said.

The commission will investigate any complaint filed, because the rational behind such regulations must be examined, he said.

Using national security as a justification is unconvincing, because Thailand is not at war, he said. Migrant workers are human.

Wasan Sathorn, director of the Labour Ministry's Alien Workers Registration Office, said Phuket's regulations controlling migrant workers had nothing to do with national labour regulations.

Provincial governors have the authority to issue regulations to solve problems dealing with migrant workers, Wasan said.

Many provinces prohibit migrant workers from using mobile phones, in order to protect national security and prevent them from engaging in criminal activity, he said.

- The Nation, 1 May, 2007

[kat]

uhm, I spent 4 years of my life working with Burmese refugees and helped resettle 14 of them here to the States, where they are currently rebuilding their lives. I basically fed and clothed them while they were in immigration prison when everyone else forgot about them. It was never about the paycheck, because as a matter of fact I make at least about $20-40,000 less than my peers right now for staying with them in LOS until I knew they could be resettled. What exactly do you do except to post offensive remarks?

And further, all Burmese migrants are fleeing human rights violations even as economic migrants as they are bloody starving to death due to another exorbitant increase in cooking fuel and food prices. In addition, many of them ARE political refugees or literally running for their lives. Hmmm, what a choice - starve, be followed and thrown into the gallows for virtually nothing, or be raped, burned alive, starved, and then blown up with land mines after having all of your property, livestock, and paddy confiscated by the Burmese military and associated thugs. Yep, they have so much choice.

So you are agreeing that they are FAR better off working here then. Thailand is actually very accomodating in terms of refugees from Burma.

The ban on Mobile Phones, curfew etc... has to do with armed Burmese terrorist action in Thailand, they seized control of the Burmese Embassy in Bangkok

and additionally seized a Hospital 3 months later, holding 500 doctors, nurses and patients hostage at the end of a gun, all within 3 months of each other. The controls were tightened and this hasn't happened since, additionally the transport into Thailand from Burma of Metamphetemines is a very big problem,

Where did I ever agree that they are far better working here? If our only comparative basis is Burma, then that's quite a sad state of affairs for Thailand. In fact, after my years of working closely on this issue, I found that the best thing for the political refugees was to get them resettled outside of Thailand. There is absolutely no hope for them in Thailand, and in fact unless they are very lucky with their employers the majority are treated literally like slaves, both on a personal and official level.

In terms of Thailand's accommodation, they are paid by the UN, governments, and NGOs for any potential sacrifice. For example, when the Thai government complained about refugees using their hospitals in Mae Sot, the US Embassy gave them a couple of million dollars. The US had also just donated money to Dr. Cynthia's clinic for Burmese refugees on the border. The Thai government promptly complained the next year as well. Similarly, NGOs that feed and provide materials for shelter in the camps along the border must also donate the same materials to the adjacent Thai village. There are tons of other stories of how the Thai government has been completely collaborative with the Burmese Military Government to return highly successful Burmese activists back to the Burmese. The only way a Burmese migrant or refugee can be successful in Thailand is to completely accept their fate as little more than an indentured servant at best, a slave in most cases as defined by a total absence of human rights, and that is that.

Actually, as soon as I am stabilized again, it is my aim to document and publicize the little exposed story of the human rights violations of THAILAND, not only Burma, and will work on this with the resettled political prisoners here. It is shocking, and quite frankly not much different from Burma when it comes to the legal and human rights of Burmese. I look forward to the day when I can return to Thailand with the resettled political prisoners with their American passports in hand. We will go in and try to get some more out.

As far as the hostage situation and mobile phones, those two incidents occurred in 1999 and early 2000, so the recent mobile phone ban has nothing to do with it. The hostage takers were from the twins' cult, were maybe a little more than a dozen in the hospital siege, and voluntarily let go of about 100 hostages. The current ban has everything to do with the crackdown on Burmese activists, as the RTG's collaboration with the bloody Burmese military thug government. Thailand doesn't want to blow its promised satellite and telecommunication deals with the drug-pushing, money-laundering rapists and murderers. As people have said, historical grievances are put aside once money is to be made.

[kat]

BTW, I need to add that it is absurd to punish a whole segment of the population for the deeds of a few, and even a cult.

Following the logic of Solo's argument, we should ban all farangs from owning mobile phones and motorbikes, because some of them have been arrested for dealing drugs, murder, and child exploitation.

[Solosiam]

Are you saying that not being able to use a mobile phone or drive a car whilst working in Thailand is not better than being "raped, burned alive, starved, and then blown up with land mines after having all of your property, livestock, and paddy confiscated by the Burmese military and associated thugs."

[kat]

No, you can freely read what I'm saying. Your efforts at throwing up scarecrows on this thread are now futile.

[Solosiam]

BTW, I need to add that it is absurd to punish a whole segment of the population for the deeds of a few, and even a cult.

Following the logic of Solo's argument, we should ban all farangs from owning mobile phones and motorbikes, because some of them have been arrested for dealing drugs, murder, and child exploitation.

Poor analogy, If Farangs took a hospital and 500 sick people, Doctors and Nurses hostage at gunpoint over political reasons - then yes that ban on mobile phones and motorbikes should apply to them as well. Regardless of if they let 100 people go free or not.

Lets face it, most of the Burmese workers are from ethnic guerilla villages, I don't understand why having to use a payphone instead of a mobile phone is so barbaric, we were all doing exactly that just 6-7 years ago - whats the big deal?