Are Isaan Farmers 'poor'?

[jts-khorat]

Maybe just to add some more controversy

While the Thai government definitely could and should do (much) more in ways of education, it is a fact that the literacy rate even in Isaan is not that bad. Those farmers can read and write.

This gives them the most important tool to better themselves without outside help (I have been to places in the world where nobody could read and those people are truly f*cked!).

And funnily enough, go in any internet cafe as by now even the tiniest rural village has -- you will see lots of youth playing there all day online games.

If they were able to use the keyboard to get playing, they should have been just as able to find the next educational website or bittorrent (those Pimsleur language courses are quite good, as is Rosetta Stone, "free for everybody"). And, gasp, there are even lots of websites in Thai out there.

Waiting for the flames...

[geriatrickid]

If one uses malnourishment as an indicator of poverty, then indeed Isan is extremely poor. Although one does not see stick people as in Africa, the malnourishment is there, and the resulting problems with physical development are present. Basic deficiencies in iodine and folate are a major problem. From the time of inception right through the most important growth stages, a large segment of the population develop without vital nutrients. This in turn leads to problems with intellectual development and physical ailments that shorten lifespans. Had the government not undertaken its campaign of food fortification a decade ago, the number of birth defects and sub par intelligence subjects would probably be 3-5X greater than it is now.

An Isan farmer's life is tough and he starts at a disadvantage with poor soil. As the region is drought and flood prone, he has to work a crap soil base with high salinity. The lack of crop diversification doesn't help matters. No farmer is going to get rich under those conditions.

I suppose if one wanted to spin this to something more PC one could say, the region must be the healthiest since it has the lowest per capita number of physicians and hospital beds in Thailand. However, the reality is that the lack of a local tax base precludes investments in such facilities. Add to that the lack of money for better schooling and one sees that the cycle of poverty is well entrenched.

When I look at my friend from Surin, he is rather short with the longest arms and biggest feet I have ever seen on a small guy. (A nutritionist would have had a field day with his childhood.) He's always smiling but beneath that smile is one very sad guy that is always worrying about his family back on the farm. He works hard to send money home. He's also one of the few Thais I trust with the keys to my place and that I can give him 20,000B to go buy stuff for me or lug around expensive equipment and never have to worry about him disappearing with anything or shortchanging me. My friend can leave her kids with him and come back knowing the kid was better looked after by him than me.

I reckon that makes him a heck of alot wealthier on the stuff that matters most.

[tracer5050]

Explain that in the real world folk get money and success from hard work, coupled with recognising opportunities and NOT from simply just waiting for luck and sitting on one's ar#e.

How many people in the glorious west are on welfare, Social Security, sickness benefits, State Pensions, disability allowance, in Jail, addicted to drugs, pregnant at 15, etc etc etc...................

It's the way of the world, it's just that in the west, you can be a lazy good for nothing, and you can get taken care of by the state.

In countries like Thailand, it ain't that simple.

My younger sis is at Khon Kaen School of Technology, I want her to stay at school, fair enough, what will she do whe she has finished her education, get a great job with a high salary that enables her to have a lifestyle equal to what a person from the west can have? yeah right..............

Work 10 Hours a day serving food in MK Suki for 6000 Baht a month, maybe. 7 Eleven 4000 Baht per month, maybe.

Meet some Thai guy who also has the same prospects, she gets married, has a kid, stays at home, he gets a job in Bangkok in a Factory earning a pittance for long hours, I'm sure they'll prosper as a Family but it will take years and years of hard work, leaving the kid with her Mother and going to work in the Factory herself to try to get out of the poverty trap.

You can't begin to compare what is available in the west with what is available in other countries, go preach in Cambodia, Burma,Nepal, Laos, North Korea, Africa etc etc, are all those people lazy and stupid, I'm sure YOU could survive like they do....yeah right. You wouldn't survive a Month, they have to spend a lifetime surviving.

Having that British Passport of yours is your Security, you can fork up big style and all you need is a return ticket home to the welfare state, many of the worlds population don't have that same security.

Even the UK unemployed can afford overseas holidays, I used to know loads of guys that used to come to Thailand who are on Benefits back in UK, they used to claim for everything, rent out their house or flat that was being paid for by the government and come to Thailand, their money was paid directly into a bank account they never even had to sign on.

I just wonder how people in the west would get on with low wages and no benefits or welfare state to fall back on .

I dont wonder I know in the US they would be crying The Goverment was not taking care of them , Not their faught life was not fair to them. That why I said even Poor people in the US is fat. And untill the goverment stops all the hand out to them it will not get better. At least what I have seen in Issan the famers work , my hat off tot them

[pigneguy]

Maybe just to add some more controversy

While the Thai government definitely could and should do (much) more in ways of education, it is a fact that the literacy rate even in Isaan is not that bad. Those farmers can read and write.

This gives them the most important tool to better themselves without outside help (I have been to places in the world where nobody could read and those people are truly f*cked!).

And funnily enough, go in any internet cafe as by now even the tiniest rural village has -- you will see lots of youth playing there all day online games.

If they were able to use the keyboard to get playing, they should have been just as able to find the next educational website or bittorrent (those Pimsleur language courses are quite good, as is Rosetta Stone, "free for everybody"). And, gasp, there are even lots of websites in Thai out there.

Waiting for the flames...

i agree .... it's called 'responsibility of choice' ......

[Andrew Hicks]

If one uses malnourishment as an indicator of poverty, then indeed Isan is extremely poor. Although one does not see stick people as in Africa, the malnourishment is there, and the resulting problems with physical development are present. Basic deficiencies in iodine and folate are a major problem. From the time of inception right through the most important growth stages, a large segment of the population develop without vital nutrients. This in turn leads to problems with intellectual development and physical ailments that shorten lifespans. Had the government not undertaken its campaign of food fortification a decade ago, the number of birth defects and sub par intelligence subjects would probably be 3-5X greater than it is now.

An Isan farmer's life is tough and he starts at a disadvantage with poor soil. As the region is drought and flood prone, he has to work a crap soil base with high salinity. The lack of crop diversification doesn't help matters. No farmer is going to get rich under those conditions.

I suppose if one wanted to spin this to something more PC one could say, the region must be the healthiest since it has the lowest per capita number of physicians and hospital beds in Thailand. However, the reality is that the lack of a local tax base precludes investments in such facilities. Add to that the lack of money for better schooling and one sees that the cycle of poverty is well entrenched.

When I look at my friend from Surin, he is rather short with the longest arms and biggest feet I have ever seen on a small guy. (A nutritionist would have had a field day with his childhood.) He's always smiling but beneath that smile is one very sad guy that is always worrying about his family back on the farm. He works hard to send money home. He's also one of the few Thais I trust with the keys to my place and that I can give him 20,000B to go buy stuff for me or lug around expensive equipment and never have to worry about him disappearing with anything or shortchanging me. My friend can leave her kids with him and come back knowing the kid was better looked after by him than me.

I reckon that makes him a heck of alot wealthier on the stuff that matters most.

Thanks again for this and other great posts.

I mentioned earlier that I and Michael, a friend from Japan are at the very beginning of a project to help kids in Thailand. It's called, 'Adopt A Village School' and there's a website for it.

Starting with our village school where almost half the children are below the recommended body weight range, my wife and I are just starting to run a programme providing lunches, books and uniforms. This is a pilot and it's early days but it could take off.

Fund raising is the key of course, but Michael's hope is to find more Thai/farang couple to adopt their local school and to run a project along the same lines. With the couple giving their time and expenses and reporting back to donors via the website, it could be an efficient way to help some of the poorest kids in a small but useful way.

I was a bit disturbed when I met a couple of farang who said they thought that because of the population of Toyota Vigos, the locals were not poor. This thread reassures me that the widespread view is the opposite and that there should be active support for the schools project we are just setting up.

PS Thanks to Martin and George for a great party at the Farang Connection in Surin last night.

[Heng]

Even the military knew better than to try to pry those lottery tickets out of the hands of the Issanites. Then they might have had a real uprising (for the first time ever) on their hands here. You can take away their constitution but you had better not touch their 'huay.'

Given, it's a problem for the poor in many countries, but IMO lotteries have no place in developing countries. It's the worst lesson possible for the masses : 'just maybe you can get something for virtually nothing, without having to work, save, or invest.'

[kat]

Andrew:

Your idea about adopting schools is a great one. I have a friend that did that informally with one school for hilltribe children, and it really didn't take much to make a huge impact.

I didn't read a lot of the thread because I wanted to avoid predictable comments, but of course a large proportion of Issan is poor. Thailand is a lower middle income developing country, where *60% of the population is rural. I think geriatrickid's post explained a lot, and what people also haven't considered is the nature of Issan's economy. It forms the basis of cash crop farming on bad conditions explained above, migrant workers, tuk tuk drivers, bargirls, and marriages for sale. It is not enough to simply look at cash results, but their link to the supply and demand side of the economy as well.

*I think this figure has probably fallen in recent years, but I have not seen a new figure in a while.

** BTW, you are right about combining this with a website, and I am working on a similar concept, and will possibly contact you at a later date to figure out how to combine efforts to raise even more money if you want.

Edited September 3, 2007 by kat

[siamamerican]

Losing that drinking habit would be a good start of many poor folks (not saying they are ALL drinking of course).

Drinking is the downfall for many Thais. I enjoy a drink or two and on a rare occasion more drinks than I should. The problem with some Thai farmers is that it becomes what defines them.

The wife's family are poor farmers. Now, if the Dad didn't drink himself to death and had put a will together before his death things might have been different. He owned 20 rai that the kids knew nothing about. Long story, but 15 years later the courts gave half the land after I paid the minimal legal fees.

Drinking and smoking took two of her brothers before they reached 30, one still lives and is the village idiot, and another is dying of diabetes caused by alcoholism.

Hmmm, I was going to defend drinking in moderation, but the misery alcohol brought to my wifes family, surely outweighs the good times.

[LongThaimer]

Maybe just to add some more controversy

While the Thai government definitely could and should do (much) more in ways of education, it is a fact that the literacy rate even in Isaan is not that bad. Those farmers can read and write.

This gives them the most important tool to better themselves without outside help (I have been to places in the world where nobody could read and those people are truly f*cked!).

And funnily enough, go in any internet cafe as by now even the tiniest rural village has -- you will see lots of youth playing there all day online games.

If they were able to use the keyboard to get playing, they should have been just as able to find the next educational website or bittorrent (those Pimsleur language courses are quite good, as is Rosetta Stone, "free for everybody"). And, gasp, there are even lots of websites in Thai out there.

Waiting for the flames...

i agree .... it's called 'responsibility of choice' ......

It's called SHALLOW.

What's kids playing games got to do with POVERTY, don't kids play games where you from????

Imagine, if you NUKE Colombia you got rid of all the world's cocaine problems, RIGHT ???????

How pathetic !!!!!!

[Maigo6]

And funnily enough, go in any internet cafe as by now even the tiniest rural village has -- you will see lots of youth playing there all day online games.

Once again you make sweeping statements that are complete rubbish. OK, I'll do a deal with you, when I come back to Thailand next month, I'll meet you in Isaan, and every rural Village that we go to that does NOT have an internet Cafe, you donate a computer to the local school, ok?

I'll drive and pay for the diesel, you pay for all the rural villages to have computers, and whilst your at it, you can get telephone lines installed to the many many villages that do not have telephone lines.

I hope you got plenty of money.

straight_jacket_1_.bmpjts, it's nearly time for you to be released so you can post again.

Edited September 3, 2007 by Maigo6

[Neeranam]

It's certainly not the answer for all of the poor, but for a good number, yes, sensibility and foresight, especially over generations is all it takes for folks to leave the poor ranks.

Said by a self made man who had to fight his way out of poverty against all the odds.

It must be a real struggle for poor parents to send their kids to an international school.

[roietjimmy]

And funnily enough, go in any internet cafe as by now even the tiniest rural village has -- you will see lots of youth playing there all day online games.

Once again you make sweeping statements that are complete rubbish. OK, I'll do a deal with you, when I come back to Thailand next month, I'll meet you in Isaan, and every rural Village that we go to that does NOT have an internet Cafe, you donate a computer to the local school, ok?

I'll drive and pay for the diesel, you pay for all the rural villages to have computers, and whilst your at it, you can get telephone lines installed to the many many villages that do not have telephone lines.

I hope you got plenty of money.

Even if you didn't visit one village and only Amphoes, jts-korat would still need to have plenty of money.

[jts-khorat]

And funnily enough, go in any internet cafe as by now even the tiniest rural village has -- you will see lots of youth playing there all day online games.

If they were able to use the keyboard to get playing, they should have been just as able to find the next educational website or bittorrent (those Pimsleur language courses are quite good, as is Rosetta Stone, "free for everybody"). And, gasp, there are even lots of websites in Thai out there.

i agree .... it's called 'responsibility of choice' ......

It's called SHALLOW. What's kids playing games got to do with POVERTY, don't kids play games where you from????

Imagine, if you NUKE Colombia you got rid of all the world's cocaine problems, RIGHT ???????

Maigo6:

the straight jacket looks quite comfy to me, thanks. At least my food and shelter is provided for, better than in the real world where I have to work for my little pleasures

For all else, sweeping comments maybe. So lets backtrack just a little to other sweeping comments: not all the soil is bad in Isaan, not all the farmers poor, not all women are bargirls, not everybody is boozing or lazy, not every year has bad weather, not all the farmers have no idea how to diversify crops or plan ahead. Turn it as you might, we all generalize here a lot.

LongThaimer:

don't know where that nuke comment comes from (and actually, nuking Colombia WOULD get rid of most of the cocaine production, hence the supply chain would be broken. But I guess somehow that was neither your point nor has something to do with the actual discussion).

What has gaming to do with poverty? Spending the family's DAILY income on this habit while not being in school or working, this is what it has to do with poverty. Poor kids sure have a right to play; but in my age playing was somehow free quality time, nowadays it is only fun if it costs money.

So was it normal that you would spend your parents wage check while playing when a kid (doing coke maybe, is that the connection???).

My parents gracefully allowed me to work if I wished luxury items and I was clever enough to actually save my pocket money even if it hurt to see others have an ice cream instead -- not out of need but out of forethought. Even teens have this kind of intelligence if fostered by their role models.

And really, many of those online games are a pre-step to the gambling culture this country has, as are lotteries. Not so difficult to make a connection between gambling and poverty, or shall I explain that in detail as well?

Edited September 3, 2007 by jts-khorat

[meemiathai]

And funnily enough, go in any internet cafe as by now even the tiniest rural village has -- you will see lots of youth playing there all day online games.

Once again you make sweeping statements that are complete rubbish. OK, I'll do a deal with you, when I come back to Thailand next month, I'll meet you in Isaan, and every rural Village that we go to that does NOT have an internet Cafe, you donate a computer to the local school, ok?

I'll drive and pay for the diesel, you pay for all the rural villages to have computers, and whilst your at it, you can get telephone lines installed to the many many villages that do not have telephone lines.

I hope you got plenty of money.

straight_jacket_1_.bmpjts, it's nearly time for you to be released so you can post again.

[meemiathai]

For me, I am just talking about individuals, how to get out of poverty. I am not talking about Isaan as a whole. Of course,

you can say when every single person in Isaan becomes hard working, when beer and lao kao sales becomes zero, things are going to improve. But I am saying how as an individual can people get out of poverty?

Please take into account that not everyone is a piece of material that can become a rocket scientist just if they study hard.

Not everyone has a background that could afford themselves universities. I have met quite a lot of Isaan people especially the ones from my family in law who are very hard working. But their hard working merely just covers what is enough for survival.

I must say I feel ashamed when I face them.

BTW, my apology to you, Jersey UK. Not meant to be too serious. It is just a forum. I did ask you politely though, didn't I?

[meemiathai]

straight_jacket_1_.bmpjts, it's nearly time for you to be released so you can post again.

Mai gor hok,

is that actually Bendix? Haven't seen him post for a while.

[Heng]

It's certainly not the answer for all of the poor, but for a good number, yes, sensibility and foresight, especially over generations is all it takes for folks to leave the poor ranks.

Said by a self made man who had to fight his way out of poverty against all the odds.

It must be a real struggle for poor parents to send their kids to an international school.

It's all relative. We weren't well off enough for me to go to Newcombe's so instead I had to go to tennis camp at T Bar M. We also had a drawer in the kitchen that contained supermarket coupons.

[macb]

Poverty there are to many levels of poverty I think for it to relate to any one person or and country . It has to be evaluated on the circumstances at the time :

The Thai people who live in the villages are happy with what they have, they don't put value on building a palatial residence like us Urbanised or city beings . As long as they are dry and it is a roof over there heads, they live from day to day basis hand to mouth each day, maybe we should learn from there values or take at least a leaf out of there book in some cases.

Hers a link on poverty

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Poverty

Because of our western lifestyles we see there lifestyle as substandard, but in there minds it is not.

Farmers are they poor? I don't think they are not in there eyes because they have had this lifestyle for centuries, a Farmer takes his cattle out during the day the seasons come around he sows his rice, he takes a labouring job to earn a few bht he puts the Fertilizer on his rice, hes cutting grass for his cattle.

And dont forget they are not wasteful like we are, they make use of mother earth they pick leaves off trees to eat with rice, they have an abundance of herbs and greenery, not forgetting there meat source, when it rains they go out frogging or catching fish in there bores or fill .

No they are not poor if we change there lives to one of that in the jet stream you would not have the same Thailand

Well that's my thoughts

Edited September 3, 2007 by macb

[bangkoksingapore]

it seems like most farang in this thread want to paint the isaan farmers as not being poor because they resent having to give them money or some other unfortunate embarrassing reason involving the business deal they call a relationship. ah, i cant believe what people have said in this thread. pity and shame on you.

[esbobes]

I have proof from many reports that Issan farmers drink because Farangs send them money and they just have extra money.

Please don't give money to Issan farmers you are the reason they drink.

If you give them objects they will sell it.

Farangs are hurting Issan farmers.

Please stop being so nice.

[esbobes]

it seems like most farang in this thread want to paint the isaan farmers as not being poor because they resent having to give them money or some other unfortunate embarrassing reason involving the business deal they call a relationship. ah, i cant believe what people have said in this thread. pity and shame on you.

People like you are killing the Issan farmers. Please wake up and wise up.

I think yo are a good man but you are doing harm, shame on you

[jts-khorat]

it seems like most farang in this thread want to paint the isaan farmers as not being poor because they resent having to give them money or some other unfortunate embarrassing reason involving the business deal they call a relationship. ah, i cant believe what people have said in this thread. pity and shame on you.

So, here we just have another (over)-generalization. Where have you read into my statements that I think it is wrong to help the people in Isaan?

Not for a second would I believe that a poor person actually is a happy person and not for a second do I believe tjhat in the 21st century the Isaan people are happy to actually stay in tiny huts and live from the hand in the mouth as macb seems to believe (so why would those romanticized natives of yours need a mobile and a car then??).

What I merely stated #clearly# is, that all your help (and indeed their own hard work) will go nowhere if they are unwilling to plan for the future and educate themselves.

Toiling like a maniac for THb 80 a day in the field will bring you nowhere even if you do it 20 hours a day and every day of the year for the rest of your life (meemiathai's family in law a good example, from what he wrote just 3-4 posts past).

As I said also, maybe staying a (below)-subsistence farmer is not the right solution at all any more. Globalization and industrialized agriculture have left little for a farmer to do with only two hands.

So actually I am counting the girls coming to Pattaya or Bangkok as a possible solution and they are couragious enough to do the ugly deed to bring their family forward where their parents could not or would not (I still believe self-education would be a better alternative, but I do not believe that prostitution is actually an easy way out, quite the contrary).

So rather shame on you, bangkoksingapore, to put them down this way when they are doing something that actually brings them forward. So far this thread had a lot of voices that think it great that Issan farmers are good at drinking themselves to death, where is your outcry against this stupidity??

Hard as it might be for me to put a good word here up for maigo6, as he was completely off-point, but at least there was an idea. So what do you have to offer as concrete advice to better the lives of the rural Thai population?

[tracer5050]

My father in law works hard in his rice and fish farm. I hate to bust anyone bubble. But when I have beer he always says thank you but no . But he dont drink. When rain does not come and rice does not do well I help him out because i can affford to do this.

But not all Isaan farmers are drunks.

[think_too_mut]

Poverty: when a family has less than 2.40US$ per day per member.

4 members family in Thai - 160B. If they can find work. They can, about 3 months a year. The rest - idling, alcohol, boredom or off to BKK or Rayong for construction work.

Bono, in his quest to enrich Africa, claims that every single cow in EU zone is subsidized by 2US$ a day.

Kim Jong Il may also claim his people are not rich but are happy.

Edited September 3, 2007 by think_too_mut

[jts-khorat]

4 members family in Thai - 160B. If they can find work. They can, about 3 months a year. The rest - idling, alcohol, boredom

And your point being, exactly?

We kind of all have agreed here, that indeed Isaan farmers are poor. While some are thinking that makes them helpless victims of fate or higher forces, other chose to believe that they actually have some options to help themselves, even though those options might be limited and nearly in all cases will entail personal hardship and cutting back on the sanook.

Why, why, why, does everybody here believe just because Isaanites are poor -- or even very poor -- that it is okay to be so "bored with their unlimited idling free time" that they should be constantly drunk to fill it?? Is this the only option any of you would be willing to offer them? Do you really think so low of them?

So then why not put this helpless natives in reservations where tourists might come and pay entry fees to see them doing their drunken native dances or whatever. Maybe rent out the daughters for some extra whisky or some worthless glass beads.

...

Sounds awful (and somehow familiar, and I am not even talking about Thailand here...).

[think_too_mut]

4 members family in Thai - 160B. If they can find work. They can, about 3 months a year. The rest - idling, alcohol, boredom

Why, why, why, does everybody here believe just because Isaanites are poor -- or even very poor -- that it is okay to be so "bored with their unlimited idling free time" that they should be constantly drunk to fill it?? Is this the only option any of you would be willing to offer them? Do you really think so low of them?

That's all I see when I go there. That's the only option they offer to me - Lao Khao 6am and all day long.

Why do they think so low of me?

Just in February this year I clocked up 350 hours of work in Tokyo. Would they care?

Would they <deleted>! They don't do that much work over a year or two altogether.

Look at the kids...the only thing they have to play with is this bottle of lao khao their parents had downed 5am.

Then, the parents continue. Day in, day out. Until some accidental work drags them away - to get the money for the refill and to pay their alcohol debts (if they can).

Edited September 3, 2007 by think_too_mut

[macb]

it seems like most farang in this thread want to paint the isaan farmers as not being poor because they resent having to give them money or some other unfortunate embarrassing reason involving the business deal they call a relationship. ah, i cant believe what people have said in this thread. pity and shame on you.

I have proof from many reports that Issan farmers drink because Farangs send them money and they just have extra money.

Please don't give money to Issan farmers you are the reason they drink.

If you give them objects they will sell it.

Farangs are hurting Issan farmers.

Please stop being so nice.

it seems like most farang in this thread want to paint the isaan farmers as not being poor because they resent having to give them money or some other unfortunate embarrassing reason involving the business deal they call a relationship. ah, i cant believe what people have said in this thread. pity and shame on you.

People like you are killing the Issan farmers. Please wake up and wise up.

I think yo are a good man but you are doing harm, shame on you

When I moved into my village they were already drinking moonshine, so I have not furnished there habit:

My wife and I built a new kitchen at our local school for the 200 kids (Is this putting whisky in there mouth?) Sometimes we take the ice cream man to the school and give the kids a treat is this wrong as well ?If I give someone work to do I cannot stipulate dont use the money for whisky, its up to them, in no way do I try to change or give the people in my village false hope. if we have a party everyone gets free food and and the kids get treats this is a real treat for them and good fun for all.

[Andrew Hicks]

Andrew:

Your idea about adopting schools is a great one. I have a friend that did that informally with one school for hilltribe children, and it really didn't take much to make a huge impact.

I didn't read a lot of the thread because I wanted to avoid predictable comments, but of course a large proportion of Issan is poor. Thailand is a lower middle income developing country, where *60% of the population is rural. I think geriatrickid's post explained a lot, and what people also haven't considered is the nature of Issan's economy. It forms the basis of cash crop farming on bad conditions explained above, migrant workers, tuk tuk drivers, bargirls, and marriages for sale. It is not enough to simply look at cash results, but their link to the supply and demand side of the economy as well.

*I think this figure has probably fallen in recent years, but I have not seen a new figure in a while.

** BTW, you are right about combining this with a website, and I am working on a similar concept, and will possibly contact you at a later date to figure out how to combine efforts to raise even more money if you want.

Thanks for that, Kat and do keep in touch.

Living here in a village, I am constantly disturbed by the wealth gap between me and those living around me. I also sense from the many responses that others feel this too.

There are many possible responses to this, including blaming the poor, but if only agriculture were sustainable, life here with the extended family on a sufficiency basis and not materialism could be very fulfilling.

I can't change the world but I do feel uncomfortable about it. It's difficult to know how to help and the alcohol problem complicates things hugely.

That's why our 'Adopt A Village School' project could be an efficient way to help children, the innocents who deserve more opportunity. Our plan to improve their nutrition is the key but giving books and uniforms is also worthwhile.

I only hope the fund raising is successful so that we can continue it in the long term.

Andrew Hicks

[LongThaimer]

And funnily enough, go in any internet cafe as by now even the tiniest rural village has -- you will see lots of youth playing there all day online games.

If they were able to use the keyboard to get playing, they should have been just as able to find the next educational website or bittorrent (those Pimsleur language courses are quite good, as is Rosetta Stone, "free for everybody"). And, gasp, there are even lots of websites in Thai out there.

i agree .... it's called 'responsibility of choice' ......

It's called SHALLOW. What's kids playing games got to do with POVERTY, don't kids play games where you from????

Imagine, if you NUKE Colombia you got rid of all the world's cocaine problems, RIGHT ???????

Maigo6:

the straight jacket looks quite comfy to me, thanks. At least my food and shelter is provided for, better than in the real world where I have to work for my little pleasures

For all else, sweeping comments maybe. So lets backtrack just a little to other sweeping comments: not all the soil is bad in Isaan, not all the farmers poor, not all women are bargirls, not everybody is boozing or lazy, not every year has bad weather, not all the farmers have no idea how to diversify crops or plan ahead. Turn it as you might, we all generalize here a lot.

LongThaimer:

don't know where that nuke comment comes from (and actually, nuking Colombia WOULD get rid of most of the cocaine production, hence the supply chain would be broken. But I guess somehow that was neither your point nor has something to do with the actual discussion).

What has gaming to do with poverty? Spending the family's DAILY income on this habit while not being in school or working, this is what it has to do with poverty. Poor kids sure have a right to play; but in my age playing was somehow free quality time, nowadays it is only fun if it costs money.

So was it normal that you would spend your parents wage check while playing when a kid (doing coke maybe, is that the connection???).

My parents gracefully allowed me to work if I wished luxury items and I was clever enough to actually save my pocket money even if it hurt to see others have an ice cream instead -- not out of need but out of forethought. Even teens have this kind of intelligence if fostered by their role models.

And really, many of those online games are a pre-step to the gambling culture this country has, as are lotteries. Not so difficult to make a connection between gambling and poverty, or shall I explain that in detail as well?

Superior "jts-khorat"

It's obvious we ain't on the POVERTY topic anymore...... are we ????

YES...it's all about YOU and your self-centered views of other people, why can they not be more like MEEEEE, eh ???? Just because you flipped hamburgers ( whetever) off school breaks, skipped all the ice cream (althoug it was REALLY PAINFUL ) and CLEVERLY saved (to buy LUXURY ITEMS ???!!!) don't mean all other kids who don't, or as in Issan kids don't have the opportunity to do like you had don't mean they are IRRESPONSIBLE. In any case, in a region with backward communications infrastructures, online-game Issan kids are just a minute minority (I DON'T BELIVE YOUR STORY ANYWAY....next time, have some facts before you make a fool out of yourself, out of thousand of villages out there, how many landlines do you think are there actually??? FORGET about iPSTAR ), but if you want to continue to use it to validate your TWISTED views, then there is nothing anyone can do about it except to watch your insanity in vain. By the way, if you aren't so IGNORANT, you wil realize that many Issan kids do help their parents on the fields, this is a very much a part of Thailand's rural life, and this is the responsibility that comes with being borned into a Issan's farming village. Your pitiful self-obsessed feel-good attempt to draw parallel between you, presumably - a middle class (you are not RICH are you??) social well-fared educated individual - with children of poor farmers just don't make sene. Don't tell me, as you are so self righteous about HARD WORK and DISCIPLINE that you self-educated yourself thru slogging long hours at greasy burger joints. That would be one helluva a POOR, HARD upbringing I am sure sons and daughters of poor farmers could relate to !!!!!!!

As for GAMBLING....

Let me tell you it's a social ill, like alcoholism and drugs. It's a NATIONAL problem. Any individual, rich or poor could be destroyed by bad gambling habits and end up in POVERTY, that don't mean people in Issan are poor because of GAMBLING. So you are saying, gambling is more prevalent in Ethiopia, Somalia than Thailand because those countries are poorer ????? Let's get REAL. Also, in your narrow minded view, you appeared bent on the idea that DISCIPLINE, HARD WORK are the only solutions to get out of POVERTY. Like I said in my prevoius post, POVERTY ALLEVIATION is an complex issue involving socio-economic considerations.

It's SAD some people refused to see even the very basic ones......

Edited September 4, 2007 by LongThaimer

[Texpat]

Most poverty in rural Thailand is due to lack of ambition and ignorance. Farmers have been screwed for so long by merchants and politicians, they look at life like, "the less I have, the less they can take." There is little incentive to save. If someone (banks, govt) wants to give me something (a loan or land) I'll take it and get something I really want (a cell phone, a new moto)

Truth avoidance is rampant. Officials will not admit there is poverty. They do their best to keep poor farmers from making a scene. When all else fails, they'll look to Uncle Sam, or Auntie Aussie, or Brother Brit to bail them out.

Poor Thais say they're not poor -- then quickly buy a bottle of Johnny B to prove it, squandering two-weeks pay.

Also, it's very hard to go hungry in rural Thailand. Wild stuff grows everywhere. I'm certain my wife could walk out into the countryside and live for months without buying anything.

My brother in law is a 22-year old Rachabat student in Udon Thani. He lives in a house with thatched roof and hand-plastered walls. Has never held a job in his life. Gov pays his tuition. Completely dependant on his sister (my wife) if anything goes wrong. When I was his age, I was working abroad (full-time) going to uni (part-time) and saving for a rainy day. Very difficult for me to feel sorry.

Lazy, ignorant, unambitious.