2 minutes ago, Nick Carter icp said:

And who did the Palestineins target on Oct 7 th ?

Israelis.

Military service is compulsory for most Israeli citizens over the age of 18, specifically Jewish, Druze, and Circassian populations.

31 minutes ago, IsmeUno said:

Israelis deliberately target civilians. It's not a new policy. Ten of thousands of them killed in Gaza and more attacked daily on the West Bank.

Even Trump declared that they should not be blowing up whole apartment buildings in order to kill one person.

Sorry that I cannot narrow down to the individual names of the miscreants. Suffice to describe them as Israelis supported by a terrorist administration.

So...

You expect Israel to make peace with an organisation whose stated objective has long been the destruction of Israel?

You expect Israel to fight by rules that terrorist groups openly reject?

Hamas has been widely documented as indoctrinating children from a very young age, glorifying "martyrdom" and training some youths in the use of weapons.

Yet you expect Israeli soldiers, in the middle of combat, to somehow determine the background and intentions of every individual they encounter.

Released hostages have also described being threatened, abused and, in some cases, assaulted by civilians while held captive in Gaza, reinforcing the reality that Hamas enjoys support from at least part of the civilian population.

Now let's compare how Arabs are treated in Israel with life under Hamas in Gaza.

Arab citizens of Israel have:

• The right to vote and elect representatives.
• Representation in the Knesset (Israel's parliament), and they have served in government, the judiciary, diplomacy, and senior public positions.
• Freedom of worship for Muslims, Christians and Druze.
• Access to Israeli courts and legal protections.
• The freedom to work, own businesses and pursue higher education.
• Freedom to travel within Israel and, subject to normal border controls, abroad.
• Access to Israel's healthcare system and universities.
• Legal protections regardless of sexual orientation, while LGBTQ people face severe persecution in Gaza under Hamas rule.

This doesn't look like a terrorist state or government to me!

Under Hamas in Gaza, there are no free national elections, political opposition is suppressed, dissent is punished, and many personal freedoms are heavily restricted.

Those are inconvenient facts, but they are facts.

Edited July 20Jul 20 by Scouse123

19 minutes ago, IsmeUno said:

Israelis.

Military service is compulsory for most Israeli citizens over the age of 18, specifically Jewish, Druze, and Circassian populations.

Have you forgotten about the 70 Thais that were either killed or taken hostage by Palestine on Oct 7 th .

13 minutes ago, spidermike007 said:

Those numbers are believable only if you're drinking a lot of Kool-Aid or you're incredibly naive. Israel has dozens of proxy organizations that serve as lobbyists and they funnel hundreds upon hundreds of millions of dollars a year to Congress and the Senate.

Those figures come from Open Secrets (opensecrets.org), an independent non-profit that tracks U.S. political finance and spending on lobbying. It's widely considered to be the best source of such information. Are you claiming Open Secrets is mistaken or deliberately lying? Is Open Secrets wrong about all countries or only Israel?

What is your source that Israel is funneling "hundreds upon hundreds of millions of dollars a year to Congress and the Senate?" I'm willing to bet my 401k you can't name a credible source. Anonymous social media posts don't count. But in case there is a source that you for some reason are unwilling to name: Why do you believe that source is more credible than Open Secrets?

Are these "hundreds of millions of dollars" distributed legally or illegally to members of Congress? If they are legal, why don't they turn up in the official figures? If illegal, why aren't the recipients reported to the appropriate authorities or the press? That would be a much bigger story than Watergate or any other previous D.C. scandal.

Of course, if you believe in a massive conspiracy of Jews to control the world like the one described in The Protocols of the Elders of Zion, then anything is possible.

I don't expect @spidermike007 to answer my questions. But board members should remember I gave a credible and open source for the figures I used. So far, he's given none.

Edited July 20Jul 20 by Evil Penevil

12 minutes ago, Nick Carter icp said:

Have you forgotten about the 70 Thais that were either killed or taken hostage by Palestine on Oct 7 th .

Were they targeted deliberately? It's not as if HAMAS dropped a bomb on the whole lot of them, just in order to get the Zionists.

5 minutes ago, IsmeUno said:

Were they targeted deliberately? It's not as if HAMAS dropped a bomb on the whole lot of them, just in order to get the Zionists.

Palestinians targeted civilians on Oct 7 th .

They attacked a music festival where 100s of civilians were located , they didn't seek the IDF bases directly to attack

23 minutes ago, IsmeUno said:

Were they targeted deliberately? It's not as if HAMAS dropped a bomb on the whole lot of them, just in order to get the Zionists.

No,

They went in with AK47s and attacked, murdered every man, woman and child they came across.

They certainly didn't seek the IDF because they would have been obliterated.

1 hour ago, IsmeUno said:

Israelis.

Military service is compulsory for most Israeli citizens over the age of 18, specifically Jewish, Druze, and Circassian populations.

They need to have military service you fool, considering they are surrounded by rogue states, terrorist states, and those that wish them harm.

At least they go out and wear a uniform, not hide among civilians or in the bowels of schools and hospitals using civilian women and kids as shields.

34 minutes ago, Nick Carter icp said:

Palestinians targeted civilians on Oct 7 th .

They attacked a music festival where 100s of civilians were located , they didn't seek the IDF bases directly to attack

What made them civilians?

Military service is compulsory for most Israeli citizens over the age of 18, specifically Jewish, Druze, and Circassian populations

16 minutes ago, Scouse123 said:

They need to have military service you fool, considering they are surrounded by rogue states, terrorist states, and those that wish them harm.

At least they go out and wear a uniform, not hide among civilians or in the bowels of schools and hospitals using civilian women and kids as shields.

When I was there, I saw people in civvies carrying rifles, so your assertion that they are always wearing uniforms rings hollow.

Have you ever been there? You seem to write a lot, for someone who seems to know nothing.

23 minutes ago, Scouse123 said:

No,

They went in with AK47s and attacked, murdered every man, woman and child they came across.

They certainly didn't seek the IDF because they would have been obliterated.

Obviously not, if they took hostages. I guess you should get your story straight before hitting the Submit reply button.

How about the Israelis flattening whole apartment buildings just to get one guy? Is that okay? Millions displaced...is that okay?

Isrealis are most definitely the worst. Of that there is little doubt. You just see the Palestinians fighting back.

The real terrorists, are the Israelis.

52 minutes ago, Nick Carter icp said:

Have you forgotten about the 70 Thais that were either killed or taken hostage by Palestine on Oct 7 th .

Forty eight Thais were murdered, while 28 were taken hostage and later released alive. About 134 foreign passport holders without dual Israeli citizenship were murdered that day and most of them weren't Jewish. Besides the 48 Thais, non-Jewish foreigners came from Nepal, the Philippines, Sri Lanka, China, Tanzania, Ethiopia, Sudan, Mexico, Cambodia and several other countries.

Just now, Evil Penevil said:

Forty eight Thais were murdered, while 28 were taken hostage and later released alive. About 134 foreign passport holders without dual Israeli citizenship were murdered that day and most of them weren't Jewish. Besides the 48 Thais, non-Jewish foreigners came from Nepal, the Philippines, Sri Lanka, China, Tanzania, Ethiopia, Sudan, Mexico, Cambodia and several other countries.

...and the ten of thousands of innocent Palestinians?

47 minutes ago, Nick Carter icp said:

Palestinians targeted civilians on Oct 7 th .

They attacked a music festival where 100s of civilians were located , they didn't seek the IDF bases directly to attack

Asymmetric warfare.

Should they have waited for them to put their uniforms on?

Do you mean like the Israelis flattening a whole building to get just one guy?

Why no balanced viewpoint? Are you an extremist?

5 minutes ago, IsmeUno said:

You just see the Palestinians fighting back.

How were the Palestinians "fighting back" on Oct. 7 by attacking civilians? Were they fighting back when they killed children under 18 or elderly people over 80?

If he is found guilty in America and he is a very rich person , he

can just "donate" a Million dollars to Tump and he will be granted

a full pardon , it's worked like that a few times already for some

serious criminals ....

regards worgeordie

If he is found guilty in America and he is a very rich person , he

can just "donate" a Million dollars to Tump and he will be granted

a full pardon , it's worked like that a few times already for some

serious criminals ....

regards worgeordie

12 minutes ago, Evil Penevil said:

How were the Palestinians "fighting back" on Oct. 7 by attacking civilians? Were they fighting back when they killed children under 18 or elderly people over 80?

The same goes for the Israelis. This did not start on Oct 7th, no matter how hard the Zionists and their representatives try to portray it as so.

Similarly their attempt to portray it as HAMAS only attacking civilians, but the Israelis only killing ten of thousands of civilians due to them living in the vicinity of HAMAS members.

What's the difference? Can you explain it to me?

Palestinians will always be fighting back against their oppressors. That's the reality.

Some are going to support them in their fight. I reiterate that the real terrorists are on the Israeli side. As always.

56 minutes ago, IsmeUno said:

What made them civilians?

Military service is compulsory for most Israeli citizens over the age of 18, specifically Jewish, Druze, and Circassian populations

Have you forgotten about the 70 Thais that were either killed or taken hostage by Palestine on Oct 7 th .

8 hours ago, IsmeUno said:

What made them civilians?

Military service is compulsory for most Israeli citizens over the age of 18, specifically Jewish, Druze, and Circassian populations

It doesn't matter whether the citizens had served in the military or not .

They were unarmed civilians at the time of the killings

6 hours ago, Nick Carter icp said:

It doesn't matter whether the citizens had served in the military or not .

They were unarmed civilians at the time of the killings

It matters.

Gazan murdered were also unarmed civilians. As are the Palestinians on the West Bank being attacked with impunity by the settlers supported by the IDF.

17 hours ago, Evil Penevil said:

Those figures come from Open Secrets (opensecrets.org), an independent non-profit that tracks U.S. political finance and spending on lobbying. It's widely considered to be the best source of such information. Are you claiming Open Secrets is mistaken or deliberately lying? Is Open Secrets wrong about all countries or only Israel?

What is your source that Israel is funneling "hundreds upon hundreds of millions of dollars a year to Congress and the Senate?" I'm willing to bet my 401k you can't name a credible source. Anonymous social media posts don't count. But in case there is a source that you for some reason are unwilling to name: Why do you believe that source is more credible than Open Secrets?

Are these "hundreds of millions of dollars" distributed legally or illegally to members of Congress? If they are legal, why don't they turn up in the official figures? If illegal, why aren't the recipients reported to the appropriate authorities or the press? That would be a much bigger story than Watergate or any other previous D.C. scandal.

Of course, if you believe in a massive conspiracy of Jews to control the world like the one described in The Protocols of the Elders of Zion, then anything is possible.

I don't expect @spidermike007 to answer my questions. But board members should remember I gave a credible and open source for the figures I used. So far, he's given none.

Yes, Open Secrets has no access to all the secret political organizations that are funneling money on behalf of Israel and the Jewish community, which ends up corrupting the American political system.

The data also shows that AIPAC staffers and leaders maintain professional connections and move across virtually every major pro-Israel institution in the United States, including prominent think tanks and advocacy organizations. Among the hundreds of staffers moving between these institutions, 45 moved between AIPAC and various Jewish Federations, 25 with Hillel International, 18 with the Foundation for Defense of Democracies (FDD), and 16 with the Anti-Defamation League (ADL). 

In addition, the dataset shows 493 professional connections between current and former AIPAC staff members and employees of pro-Israel advocacy organizations that present themselves to the American public as institutionally independent of AIPAC. This includes 91 connections with Hillel International, 90 with the ADL, 82 with the American Jewish Committee (AJC), 82 with StandWithUs, 43 with the Jewish National Fund-USA (JNF-USA), 41 with B'nai B'rith Youth Organization (BBYO), 23 with the Israeli-American Council (IAC), 14 with the Jewish Agency for Israel, and seven with Christians United for Israel (CUFI). The data also shows 123 professional connections with think tanks, including 45 with FDD, 23 with the American Enterprise Institute (AEI), 15 with the Washington Institute for Near East Policy (WINEP), 11 with the Jewish Institute for National Security of America (JINSA), 10 with the Heritage Foundation, and eight with the Hudson Institute.

https://dawnmena.org/u-s-new-data-highlights-aipac-ties-to-the-u-s-israeli-governments/

Take the case of Jamaal Bowman, one of Israel’s most outspoken critics in America. Bowman is currently the congressman from New York’s 16th District and until Tuesday was seeking re-election. He is one of the few Democrats to consistently criticize Israel since it began its war on Gaza, accusing its leaders of committing genocide and calling on the Biden White House to “stop all funding” to Israel. As a result, in the build-up to this week’s Primaries he experienced a full-frontal attack by AIPAC in one of the most expensive House primaries in history. AIPAC is said to have spent almost $15 million supporting George Latimer, a vocal advocate for Israel running against Bowman. Mark Mellman’s DMFI super PAC also chipped in more than $1 million to support Latimer, who in Tuesday’s vote defeated Bowman 58% to 42. So now there will be a “pro-Israeli” Democrat congressman representing New York’s 16th District, replacing a critic.

Not all Israeli-Americans agree with AIPAC, however. Its defenestration of Bowman has received heavy criticism from many progressive Jewish organisations. “This was an act of desperation by a pro-war lobby that is at odds with the majority of Americans, including American Jews”, said Eva Borgwardt, national spokesperson for the Jewish advocacy group IfNotNow, which supported Bowman. “You don’t drop $15 million on an election if your positions are popular”, she added. Beth Miller, political director for Jewish Voice for Peace Action, which endorsed Bowman, said “Congressman Bowman’s progressive platform, which includes defending Palestinian rights and halting weapons to Israeli military, is popular among Democratic voters. AIPAC had to spend a truly unprecedented amount of money in order to buy NY-16”.

https://latest.sundayguardianlive.com/investigation/how-the-pro-israeli-lobby-is-influencing-u-s-foreign-policy

I would have done a lot of "good" in Patts and Bkk and Samui with that money baby.

Enjoy your stay in jail.

15 hours ago, worgeordie said:

If he is found guilty in America and he is a very rich person , he

can just "donate" a Million dollars to Tump and he will be granted

a full pardon , it's worked like that a few times already for some

serious criminals ....

regards worgeordie

You would likely have to pay the $50 million fee into one of Trump's overseas accounts in order to qualify for a pardon.

16 hours ago, worgeordie said:

If he is found guilty in America and he is a very rich person , he

can just "donate" a Million dollars to Tump and he will be granted

a full pardon , it's worked like that a few times already for some

serious criminals ....

regards worgeordie

So, why is Trump mentioned? You got your dopamine hit? Did you forget all those criminals Clinton and Biden pardoned? Why is it just one side that is always bad, when you know both sides in America are crooked?

20 minutes ago, spidermike007 said:

You would likely have to pay the $50 million fee into one of Trump's overseas accounts in order to qualify for a pardon.

20 minutes ago, spidermike007 said:

You would likely have to pay the $50 million fee into one of Trump's overseas accounts in order to qualify for a pardon.

How much did the Clinton Mafia charge? I can send you examples.

19 hours ago, IsmeUno said:

Obviously not, if they took hostages. I guess you should get your story straight before hitting the Submit reply button.

How about the Israelis flattening whole apartment buildings just to get one guy? Is that okay? Millions displaced...is that okay?

Isrealis are most definitely the worst. Of that there is little doubt. You just see the Palestinians fighting back.

The real terrorists, are the Israelis.

You are a disgraceful poster attempting to legitimise the filth of HAMAS and its supporters, you should be ashamed of yourself.

3 hours ago, Taboo2 said:

How much did the Clinton Mafia charge? I can send you examples.

Fascinating how Trump devotees always like to bring up Clinton, Obama or Biden when their political master is critiqued.

Whatever happened before is fairly irrelevant at this point, Trump has become the most corrupt president in American history by a hundredfold, easily. That point is not even debatable by his most ardent followers. It's right out in the open for everyone to see. That's how brazen this criminal, serial statutory rapist grifter is.

5 hours ago, IsmeUno said:

It matters.

Gazan murdered were also unarmed civilians. As are the Palestinians on the West Bank being attacked with impunity by the settlers supported by the IDF.

Palestine started this current war when they invaded Israel and targeted civilians in an attempted genocide on Oct 7 th 2023

9 hours ago, IsmeUno said:

What made them civilians?

Military service is compulsory for most Israeli citizens over the age of 18, specifically Jewish, Druze, and Circassian populations

It's a myth that all Israeli Jews serve in the IDF. What is true is that all Israeli Jewish men and women, as well Druze and Circassian men, are liable for conscription into military service. The reality, however, is that many in the appropriate age range for conscription are exempted.

In 2020, one-third of all Jewish males and close to 50% of Jewish females received exemptions from military service. Since an average of 15% of Jewish males don't complete military training, that means nearly half of all Jewish males and females don't do post-training military service or serve in the reserves.

https://www.jpost.com/israel-news/half-of-israeli-youth-do-not-enlist-in-idf-614604

I know an Israeli man in his fifties who says foreigners are always surprised when he tells them he has never touched a firearm, much less served in the IDF.

Roughly one out of every two Jewish Israeli men and women never do military service. They are civilians in the strictest sense of the word. Anyone who claims it's morally defensible to kill Israeli Jews because military service is compulsory in Israel is just groping for a defense of terrorist murder.

Israeli Jews are given exemptions for a variety of reasons, mainly because they are deemed physically or psychologically unfit for military service. Married women and single mothers are exempt, as are many ultra-orthodox Jews because the rules, rituals and religious practices that govern their daily lives make military service impossible.

8 hours ago, IsmeUno said:

The same goes for the Israelis. This did not start on Oct 7th, no matter how hard the Zionists and their representatives try to portray it as so.

I have never encountered a Zionist or other supporter of Israel who claimed the conflict with Palestinian Arabs began on Oct. 7, 2023. Zionists above all others know Israeli Jews have been fighting for their survival ever since the U.N. announced its partition plan for Mandatory Palestine in 1947. The most recent iteration of this 78-year conflict did indeed begin on Oct, 7, 2023.

8 hours ago, IsmeUno said:

Similarly their attempt to portray it as HAMAS only attacking civilians, but the Israelis only killing ten of thousands of civilians due to them living in the vicinity of HAMAS members.

What's the difference? Can you explain it to me?

The difference between Hamas terrorism and IDF military action has been explained several times, but I am happy to do it again. The deaths of civilians in Gaza are caused by collateral damage from urban warfare in a densely populated area, with the casualty count exacerbated by Hamas' tendency to conceal fighters, weapons and firing points in protected civilian facilities.

The deaths of so many women and children in Gaza are tragic, but this is an unfortunate consequence of conflicts that have been forced on Israel.. IDF air strikes against Gaza are the same as WWII Allied bombing of German and Japanese cities. The bombing in all these cases was part of a strategy to win an armed conflict.

Hundreds of thousands of German and Japanese children were killed in Allied (mainly U.S.) bombing. In one night's fire bombing of Tokyo in 1945, over 100,000 Japanese civilians were killed, with at least 70,000 believed to be women, children and the elderly. More civilians were killed in ONE NIGHT than during the entire Gaza conflict, but no one accuses the U.S. of war crimes or genocide against Japan.

Israel is being held to a different standard than other nations at war.