Future Of English Football

[azzer]

Is there to many overseas players in the english game and what chance does it give the English national side to develop in the future.Maybe we are wasting are home grown talent what are your opinions?

[Penkoprod]

England have always flattered to decieve

IMO the worst thing to happen to England was winning the World Cup in 1966 !!!!

We have been basking in the glory of that ever since, instead of getting to the root of the problem, which is the people running the FA

On the subject of not being able to develop for the future, lets keep in the present for now

All the home grown players...........Lampard, Terry, Gerrard, Ferdinand, Hargreaves, Rooney, etc, etc, etc. The list goes on and on

talent of the above level should be winning everything in sight for years to come

What do we get?...........struggling to qualify for Euro 2008 is what !!!!

The FA only want "yes men" and people that perform well in front of the camera to manage the team

It needs sorting from the top down................ there will ALWAYS be home grown talent rising to the top

Its how they gat played that makes all the difference

Penkoprod

[EastSaxCol]

England have always flattered to decieve

IMO the worst thing to happen to England was winning the World Cup in 1966 !!!!

We have been basking in the glory of that ever since, instead of getting to the root of the problem, which is the people running the FA

On the subject of not being able to develop for the future, lets keep in the present for now

All the home grown players...........Lampard, Terry, Gerrard, Ferdinand, Hargreaves, Rooney, etc, etc, etc. The list goes on and on

talent of the above level should be winning everything in sight for years to come

What do we get?...........struggling to qualify for Euro 2008 is what !!!!

The FA only want "yes men" and people that perform well in front of the camera to manage the team

It needs sorting from the top down................ there will ALWAYS be home grown talent rising to the top

Its how they gat played that makes all the difference

Penkoprod

Hargreaves is a home grown player ?

But back to the thread subject. For me the whole thing has become so out of reach and changed from the game and team that I grew up supporting, that I've given up caring about foreign players, let alone the national side.

I just enjoy watching the skills that some of these players possess, but from a detached aesthetic. Although I did catch some of the fervour of the Celtic players and particularly their supporters last night in their game against Spartak Moscow. It reminded me of a passion that I miss from our game, which essentially seems to more and more consisting of a bunch of mercenaries and fickle supporters.

But outside of the PL I'm sure it still exists to some extent with some of the smaller clubs like West Brom and Ipswich, that are just about there, or there abouts , without zillions being invested for highly dubious reasons and by dodgey characters.

But to be fair ,West Ham's Eggert (Eggy) Magnusson, seems a little more credible than the rest.

[chavy]

England have always flattered to decieve

IMO the worst thing to happen to England was winning the World Cup in 1966 !!!!

We have been basking in the glory of that ever since, instead of getting to the root of the problem, which is the people running the FA

On the subject of not being able to develop for the future, lets keep in the present for now

All the home grown players...........Lampard, Terry, Gerrard, Ferdinand, Hargreaves, Rooney, etc, etc, etc. The list goes on and on

talent of the above level should be winning everything in sight for years to come

What do we get?...........struggling to qualify for Euro 2008 is what !!!!

The FA only want "yes men" and people that perform well in front of the camera to manage the team

It needs sorting from the top down................ there will ALWAYS be home grown talent rising to the top

Its how they gat played that makes all the difference

Penkoprod

Hargreaves is a home grown player ?

But back to the thread subject. For me the whole thing has become so out of reach and changed from the game and team that I grew up supporting, that I've given up caring about foreign players, let alone the national side.

I just enjoy watching the skills that some of these players possess, but from a detached aesthetic. Although I did catch some of the fervour of the Celtic players and particularly their supporters last night in their game against Spartak Moscow. It reminded me of a passion that I miss from our game, which essentially seems to more and more consisting of a bunch of mercenaries and fickle supporters.

But outside of the PL I'm sure it still exists to some extent with some of the smaller clubs like West Brom and Ipswich, that are just about there, or there abouts , without zillions being invested for highly dubious reasons and by dodgey characters.

But to be fair ,West Ham's Eggert (Eggy) Magnusson, seems a little more credible than the rest.

Eggy, is a front man isn't he for the real money man back in Iceland or where ever it is?

Problem is that managers , chairmen are swayed by agents claiming to have the next best thing since Ronaldhino who plys his trade in the Latvian 3rd division...he's available for a knock down 3 mil. The people that are buying clubs are promoting their own nationality like Mandric at Portsmouth was bringing in obscure players in from Croatia now Thaksin has already started at City. It's no coincidence the amount of French players brought into Arsenal by Wengar either. Arsenal haven't been able to name an English player in their regular starting line up for a few seasons now.

Our players (English) are vastly over rated by their clubs and themselves, when playing as the national team they are frequently found out. I for one do not believe in the system that the manager plays has anything to do with how they play/perform. A player will play to how comfortable he is on the pitch plus actually try and play the game the way it is being played out. This is where we are frequently out classed by far more technically & supperior opponents.

This is where I agree with Penkoprod, the FA only want people who will not "upset the apple cart" (that's why Brian Clough never got the job) Mclaren has always been a yes man & always will be, he'll be involved in the FA in some way or another forever. That's why, say Moriniho wont get a sniff of the job because he'd sort the lot of them out from top to bottom.

RANT OVER

[mrtoad]

I'm not sure how to really answear this, but I'll have a go. Certainly from the outside, Engl;ish football appears to be very healthy - clubs doing well in Europe, big TV rights, sponsorship, massive wages, big attendences, but this only masks the real problems within the game.

The big problem over te past 20 even 30 years has been youth development and the direction that it has taken. Certainly, the FA has been quite inaffective at layinng down any sensible or productive blue print for developing the game away from the old teachings of Winterbottom, Howe and laterly Wilkinson. Much of that has been based on physical prowess, were more imposing players who are able to run and haustle have been promoted through the youth systems, whilst more techincally gifted players with flair have been leeft by the wayside. Yous see, it's all about results even at a very early age. The FA is loaded with cronies and administrators who have no love of the game, but enjoy the relative power that they are able to exercise over people and the generous salaries and benefits that these roles get. Often the coaches and the YDO's have big problems getting the money for projects and equipment, but there is always enough cash available for an administartor to have a trip to the cup final.BTW, my Father works full time in youth development so I have a little bit of an insight into the BS thats around.

Small kids playing on large pitches was a classic case in point, although that has now been rectified in approved juniot leagues. The other big problem has been in Schools, Football is no longer promoted the way it was, and other interests have taken preecedence, it's hardly been helped by the fact that many schools don't even have facilties because they have been sold off. Teachers, are now reluctant to run after school sessions due to work pressures and the lack of support that they have received. The governments of Blair, Major and more so Thatcher should also take the blame for some of the problems.

All of the league clubs have been hit by the rula\e about only being able to recruit young players from the local area (so may miles or something like that), but there is no restriction on them recruiting young foreign players from Europe or other countries. Example Man Utd getting Pique, Rossi etc, but with the rules as they are now, they wouldn't have been able to sign Beckham. In fact the whole rule is a farce, and it has made it increasingly difficult for young players to get attatched to clubs as options are now limited. As most of you know, the amount of players who come late into the game is very limited, yes Ian Wright is a good example, but they are few and far between. So one wonders, how many gifted players are left by the waysside early on because of this rule?

The lower league clubs have also struggled to compete, with the problems of lack of money, and although Youth Development when run well saves thousand of pounds in the long run, and will generate income, often when money is tight the first thing to go is the youth setup. I remember Torquay haveing a very successful set up back in the late 1980's early 1990's, but that was abolished when money got tight. Lee Sharpe was one of the more succesful products there.

There are thousands of dedicated coaches, parents and supporters of youth football, but without proper support, guidance and realsitic planning from th FA,Clubs and the government, I fear that more clubs will continue to recruit players from overseas, much to the detriment of the national team ad hide behind the limited sucess of the latest batch of superstars who have won bugger all in national terms.

[Jockstar]

IMO the worst thing to happen to England was winning the World Cup in 1966 !!!!

Dont we know it. We have been listening to the commentary for years. Why is it English commentators seem to bring it up. Even when England aren't even playing?

[Jimjim]

Man. City, anyone? Brought in all foreign talent.

[chavy]

Man. City, anyone? Brought in all foreign talent.

exactly my point Jimjim !!! It's opening up in front of our eyes , Eriksson will only buy foreign talent but to give him some credit he has actualy come out and said the standard of the academy at Man C is outstanding & he is trying to tie them down to longer deals...but back to the original thread...the vast majority of the premiership clubs are bringing in cheap foreign players because they cannot compete with the inflated British prices for our players. To their credit the big 2 of Chelsea and Man U have bought English but at what price...the price Man U paid for Carrick & Hargreaves for arguably average players at best is mind numbing, but they have the funds to do it. Our players & managers need to get real & fast before nobody wants them. if they don't our national team will then made up mainly of championship & league 1 players run by another nothing yes man.

[Jimjim]

Chavy. One word: Voronin.

[EastSaxCol]

Eggy, is a front man isn't he for the real money man back in Iceland or where ever it is?

Are you confusing Eggy with Kia/MSI ?

Magnusson is a former owner and CEO of an import/export and bread and biscuit manufacturing company and former

President of the Football Association of Iceland. He's also sole owner and Charman of WHU and not a front man for anybody.

He's well above board on the integrity stakes.

[EastSaxCol]

Man. City, anyone? Brought in all foreign talent.

Got to admit that Citeeh do grate a bit nowadays. A true bunch of merenaries brought in by Sven.

[azzer]

Well i think we can all agree that the English game meaning english players is not looking to healthy for the future and oviously your normal fan can not do much about it ,its also good to know we are all pretty much thinking the same thing England are never gonna win anything..i think it was mentioned before with the players sven had we should have won the world cup, what chance do we stand now.

I never liked sven anyway the way he used to swap players around was ridiculous we will see what happens at man city.has he started to bring thai players in then?

[mrtoad]

Well i think we can all agree that the English game meaning english players is not looking to healthy for the future and oviously your normal fan can not do much about it ,its also good to know we are all pretty much thinking the same thing England are never gonna win anything..i think it was mentioned before with the players sven had we should have won the world cup, what chance do we stand now.

I never liked sven anyway the way he used to swap players around was ridiculous we will see what happens at man city.has he started to bring thai players in then?

Yeah, it runs alot deeper than that, but recruiting so-so players from a team that is ranked 107 in the world is hardly a good indication.

[tw25rw]

Personally, I think the clubs and schools are to blame for declining (or not improving) standards. English football, and sport in general, is all about working hard, being tough etc etc at the expense of skills and refinement. Foreign players in English clubs should be an opportunity to raise those standards through example and the professionalism they display in training.

I do think some of the complaint against foreign players is from English players jealous of the amount of money earned by those at the elite level. My attitude is that they'll make it if they're good enough, and that if the foreign talent went home, the amount of money in football would leave with them as the standards declined.

In other words, I see the foreign players as a good thing overall, but also as a symptom of overall crapness in English/British youth football coaching.

[ThaiPauly]

I'm not sure how to really answear this, but I'll have a go. Certainly from the outside, Engl;ish football appears to be very healthy - clubs doing well in Europe, big TV rights, sponsorship, massive wages, big attendences, but this only masks the real problems within the game.

The big problem over te past 20 even 30 years has been youth development and the direction that it has taken. Certainly, the FA has been quite inaffective at layinng down any sensible or productive blue print for developing the game away from the old teachings of Winterbottom, Howe and laterly Wilkinson. Much of that has been based on physical prowess, were more imposing players who are able to run and haustle have been promoted through the youth systems, whilst more techincally gifted players with flair have been leeft by the wayside. Yous see, it's all about results even at a very early age. The FA is loaded with cronies and administrators who have no love of the game, but enjoy the relative power that they are able to exercise over people and the generous salaries and benefits that these roles get. Often the coaches and the YDO's have big problems getting the money for projects and equipment, but there is always enough cash available for an administartor to have a trip to the cup final.BTW, my Father works full time in youth development so I have a little bit of an insight into the BS thats around.

Small kids playing on large pitches was a classic case in point, although that has now been rectified in approved juniot leagues. The other big problem has been in Schools, Football is no longer promoted the way it was, and other interests have taken preecedence, it's hardly been helped by the fact that many schools don't even have facilties because they have been sold off. Teachers, are now reluctant to run after school sessions due to work pressures and the lack of support that they have received. The governments of Blair, Major and more so Thatcher should also take the blame for some of the problems.

All of the league clubs have been hit by the rula\e about only being able to recruit young players from the local area (so may miles or something like that), but there is no restriction on them recruiting young foreign players from Europe or other countries. Example Man Utd getting Pique, Rossi etc, but with the rules as they are now, they wouldn't have been able to sign Beckham. In fact the whole rule is a farce, and it has made it increasingly difficult for young players to get attatched to clubs as options are now limited. As most of you know, the amount of players who come late into the game is very limited, yes Ian Wright is a good example, but they are few and far between. So one wonders, how many gifted players are left by the waysside early on because of this rule?

The lower league clubs have also struggled to compete, with the problems of lack of money, and although Youth Development when run well saves thousand of pounds in the long run, and will generate income, often when money is tight the first thing to go is the youth setup. I remember Torquay haveing a very successful set up back in the late 1980's early 1990's, but that was abolished when money got tight. Lee Sharpe was one of the more succesful products there.

There are thousands of dedicated coaches, parents and supporters of youth football, but without proper support, guidance and realsitic planning from th FA,Clubs and the government, I fear that more clubs will continue to recruit players from overseas, much to the detriment of the national team ad hide behind the limited sucess of the latest batch of superstars who have won bugger all in national terms.

Good post Mr.T

The real problem IMHO is that English fans of EPL teams in the majority dont give a toss about how England fair.

You just have to look at the flags on display at any England game and you will see Burton Albion, Morcombe, Margate et al.........fans of these teams never get to see the so called "Superstars" so they follow England

None of us want to see our players get injured in Internationals...Reading now have 9.(though only one full English International player as well as many Irish and Icelandic).....2 years ago we had one....Personally I dont really care about England anymore...Jeez I even forgot that England played Germany last week..I did not know the score for 2 days!!! Was I crushed or depressed we lost...NO ..I don't give a Sh@t.

Shorey got injured playing for England and consequently missed the Bolton game..whereby we may have only lost 2-0 instead of 3-0...but that goal could send us down...who knows?

I dont want to see my team in the Championship...even if England won the World Cup..I only care about one team..my team

I hope that you guys can understand where I am coming from..HH, Mr..B.Chon., Mr.T, Redrus...et al

E n g e r l a n d..... are NEVER gonna win anything..but we normally have 2 teams in the Champions League semi-finals every year nowadays...in the 90's it was a rarity to have one

I am ENGLISH and proud of it...but I LOVE Reading more in footballing terms.

Contraversial post????

Lets go

IMHO Supporters of EPL teams don't really care about England anymore...we just don't want our club players injured.

I used to walk to Wembley to see England play in the 70's (coz I lived just down the road from the stadium)..but things were so different then, there was more passion...much more..but then none of my team were in the line-up.....now its not just England because of the influx of foreign players to add to our woes...and every one seems to be an International from some country or another, apart from Derby , how many of us can say we have a limited International squad????

Whats your opinion?

Do you care or do you care more about your club than your national team

[mrtoad]

Good post Mr.T

The real problem IMHO is that English fans of EPL teams in the majority dont give a toss about how England fair.

You just have to look at the flags on display at any England game and you will see Burton Albion, Morcombe, Margate et al.........fans of these teams never get to see the so called "Superstars" so they follow England

None of us want to see our players get injured in Internationals...Reading now have 9.(though only one full English International player as well as many Irish and Icelandic).....2 years ago we had one....Personally I dont really care about England anymore...Jeez I even forgot that England played Germany last week..I did not know the score for 2 days!!! Was I crushed or depressed we lost...NO ..I don't give a Sh@t.

Shorey got injured playing for England and consequently missed the Bolton game..whereby we may have only lost 2-0 instead of 3-0...but that goal could send us down...who knows?

I dont want to see my team in the Championship...even if England won the World Cup..I only care about one team..my team

I hope that you guys can understand where I am coming from..HH, Mr..B.Chon., Mr.T, Redrus...et al

E n g e r l a n d..... are NEVER gonna win anything..but we normally have 2 teams in the Champions League semi-finals every year nowadays...in the 90's it was a rarity to have one

I am ENGLISH and proud of it...but I LOVE Reading more in footballing terms.

Contraversial post????

Lets go

IMHO Supporters of EPL teams don't really care about England anymore...we just don't want our club players injured.

I used to walk to Wembley to see England play in the 70's (coz I lived just down the road from the stadium)..but things were so different then, there was more passion...much more..but then none of my team were in the line-up.....now its not just England because of the influx of foreign players to add to our woes...and every one seems to be an International from some country or another, apart from Derby , how many of us can say we have a limited International squad????

Whats your opinion?

Do you care or do you care more about your club than your national team

Good stuff TP, I think that you have managed to sum up a fair few more important points that are having any impact upon our national team.

Certainly, the clubs are the oe's who take the burden if the player gets injured playing for England, you only have to think of players lie Ashton, Rooney and Owen in recent years, and of course Robson back in the 1980's to see what sort of impact it can have not just financially but results wise as well.

I find it very difficult to get enthusiatic about the England team these days, which I think is rather sad, but until there is some passion shown from the management and the players then I think nothing will change.

Players no longer see the wearing of the Three Lions as something to be proud of, but more as a bargaining chip to increase their wages at their clubs. It has got worse with the cheapening of caps handed out to second rate players who have no right to even be on an international field, but get selected when players pull out of pointless friendlies at ridiculous times against poor opposition.

It might be strange, but I'd like to see the reintroduction of the home nations again, but possibly with Ireland and France thrown in. I still feel that this would start to reignite some passion and a sense of national identity amongst the players and supporters. It certainly beats some friendly against Tunisia at Villa park on a Tuesday night.

And finally, a Taxi for McClown please.

[ThaiPauly]

How did you know my surname was McClown

but you are right....he needs a taxi....and I for one would be happy to pay the fare

Reason for edit...Smelling Pisstakes

Edited September 5, 2007 by ThaiPauly

[chavy]

Chavy. One word: Voronin.

So why was that aimed at me jimjim?

My point was Eriksson bringing in foreign talent. Which you also brought up. I've seen Voronin has scored a couple of goals already & maybe he's the bargain of the season...time will tell. I'd never heard of the lad before, had anyone else?

[mrtoad]

Chavy. One word: Voronin.

So why was that aimed at me jimjim?

My point was Eriksson bringing in foreign talent. Which you also brought up. I've seen Voronin has scored a couple of goals already & maybe he's the bargain of the season...time will tell. I'd never heard of the lad before, had anyone else?

Chavy, maybe he meant Suree Oh no, forgot, he can't get a work permit.

[mrtoad]

How did you know my surname was McClown

but you are right....he needs a taxi....and I for one would be happy to pay the fare

Reason for edit...Smelling Pisstakes

I'm sure there are plenty of us who would chip in to send him somewhere. Maybe he could be the next manager of France. I'd like that

[azzer]

personally i will always be passionate about England because its my country and i love my country and would probably put country before club even though they are No good .wat can you do.signing off for a while got to catch a flight.

[azzer]

personally i will always be passionate about England because its my country and i love my country and would probably put country before club even though they are No good .wat can you do.signing off for a while got to catch a flight.

oh yes and i would agree taxi for Mclown...

[mrtoad]

personally i will always be passionate about England because its my country and i love my country and would probably put country before club even though they are No good .wat can you do.signing off for a while got to catch a flight.

oh yes and i would agree taxi for Mclown...

At least we all agree on one thng. Taxi...............

[mark100]

Is there to many overseas players in the english game and what chance does it give the English national side to develop in the future.Maybe we are wasting are home grown talent what are your opinions?

Most Premiership sides have a decent youth policy, and l think a good english player will shine through if he's good enough no matter how many foreign players the first team has, but while good english players continue to cost more than their foreign counterparts managers have little option.

Maybe we should stop for a minute and consider what the influx of foreign players has done for the profile of the premiership, l think they have made it the best championship in the world.

[Jimjim]

Chavy. One word: Voronin.

So why was that aimed at me jimjim?

My point was Eriksson bringing in foreign talent. Which you also brought up. I've seen Voronin has scored a couple of goals already & maybe he's the bargain of the season...time will tell. I'd never heard of the lad before, had anyone else?

You said English teams were bringing in cheaper foreign talent. Voronin was free so he's a good example. Quality striker gotten on the cheap.

[mrtoad]

Is there to many overseas players in the english game and what chance does it give the English national side to develop in the future.Maybe we are wasting are home grown talent what are your opinions?

Most Premiership sides have a decent youth policy, and l think a good english player will shine through if he's good enough no matter how many foreign players the first team has, but while good english players continue to cost more than their foreign counterparts managers have little option.

Maybe we should stop for a minute and consider what the influx of foreign players has done for the profile of the premiership, l think they have made it the best championship in the world.

Youth policies are not what they were back 20 years ago. Yes, I agree that facilites and such like are grealy improved, but how many players are now breaking through from the youth teams. If you look at a lot of the players in the premiership sides these days, the majority of them are either on their second or more club or are foreign. The big clubs are now targetting foreign talent because of the restrictions placed on them by Wilkinsons ludicrous blueprints. BTW, Wilkinson is an absolute crap coach who is stuck in his dinosaur coaching manuel days, so how he was given a free hand to develop such blueprints god only knows.

I totally agree that foreign players have bought some very positive things to the game, but when teams are fielding not a single English player in some games you have to question the sanity of the FA in their approach. I know that there hands are tied because of EU regulations, but they could do a lot more to encourage the development and cultivation of the younger players.