1 hour ago, motdaeng said:

the tax law simply needs to be enforced

In order to do that, "privileges"/corruption of any kind and all levels from the bottom to the top shall be significantly reduced. I can't see that happening in our lifetime.

10 minutes ago, Yumthai said:

In order to do that, "privileges"/corruption of any kind and all levels from the bottom to the top shall be significantly reduced. I can't see that happening in our lifetime.

Electronic filing and AI will boost tax collection significantly

1 hour ago, motdaeng said:

just because the law hasn’t been actively enforced (till now) doesn’t mean you don’t have to follow it ...

Please describe your "till now" aspect of Thai tax enforcement. What are they enforcing -- requirement to file if your assessable remittances exceed one of those arbitrary thresholds, e.g., 120000 baht for single remitters? Or, that they're just getting tougher on those who owe taxes, but don't file (or under pay)?

Certainly you're not implying that they're enforcing some arbitrary rule about all tax residents with remittances must file and explain those remittances....?

I only bring into Thailand the monies required for my extension. That's what I declare it as from the source bank.

I don't make the rules just simply follow them.

On 8/26/2026 at 10:17 AM, Yellowtail said:

Capital gains are already taxed in the US, and as such, taxing them would be double taxation.

....only if TRD doesn't allow credit for the taxes already paid to the US. That is actually the mechanism that is most commonly used to avoid double taxation. In effect, the total tax you pay is equal to the highest tax rate of the two countries.

On 8/25/2026 at 2:06 PM, Jingthing said:

For US nationals, that rule does NOT apply to withdrawals from IRA retirement accounts.

The full amount of such withdrawals if remitted is fully subject to Thai tax even if you can document a cost basis and profit.

Well, Jingthing, you've seen this argument from me before. But for those Yanks who haven't -- and who might want to consider its implication, I'll resubmit.

As all Yanks with IRAs (or 401k's) know, if these accounts were funded entirely with tax deferred income, all subsequent withdrawals are taxed as ordinary income in the tax year withdrawn. It makes no difference in what year that income was actually earned.

But Thailand, with their new tax rulings, provided an out with their Por 162:

"Thailand's Departmental Order No. Por. 162/2566 clarifies that Thai tax residents do not need to pay personal income tax on foreign-sourced income earned before January 1, 2024, even if that money is brought into Thailand on or after that date."

My IRA was principally funded with pre-1990 tax deferred wage income; and with subsequent tax deferred earnings. Only a small part of my IRA consists of earnings after Jan 1, 2024. And since FIFO (first in, first out) is acceptable with Thai tax authorities, all my Required Minimum Distributions (RMDs) are all from pre 2024 income -- and thus protected from Thai taxation, per Por 162 -- if subsequently remitted to Thailand.

This observation has no practical application to me, as I have an LTR visa. And, even if I didn't, the DTA says Thailand has primary taxation rights on remitted IRAs, so even if I decided Por 162 didn't apply to IRAs, all Thai taxes on this IRA would go as a credit against those US taxes I'm certainly legally obligated to pay. Only if Thai taxes exceeded my US taxes, would I take a hit; but that wouldn't happen with current amounts of RMDs.

Anyway, a potential grey area -- but as with all grey areas, give yourself the benefit of the doubt. Certainly, if somehow TRD wanted to chat with you about this, your IRA records, with all that pre 2024 income, and with a copy of Por 162 -- would probably blow the socks off of the ordinary TRD clerk, as well as all the supervisors above him.

9 minutes ago, JimGant said:

Well, Jingthing, you've seen this argument from me before. But for those Yanks who haven't -- and who might want to consider its implication, I'll resubmit.

As all Yanks with IRAs (or 401k's) know, if these accounts were funded entirely with tax deferred income, all subsequent withdrawals are taxed as ordinary income in the tax year withdrawn. It makes no difference in what year that income was actually earned.

But Thailand, with their new tax rulings, provided an out with their Por 162:

"Thailand's Departmental Order No. Por. 162/2566 clarifies that Thai tax residents do not need to pay personal income tax on foreign-sourced income earned before January 1, 2024, even if that money is brought into Thailand on or after that date."

My IRA was principally funded with pre-1990 tax deferred wage income; and with subsequent tax deferred earnings. Only a small part of my IRA consists of earnings after Jan 1, 2024. And since FIFO (first in, first out) is acceptable with Thai tax authorities, all my Required Minimum Distributions (RMDs) are all from pre 2024 income -- and thus protected from Thai taxation, per Por 162 -- if subsequently remitted to Thailand.

This observation has no practical application to me, as I have an LTR visa. And, even if I didn't, the DTA says Thailand has primary taxation rights on remitted IRAs, so even if I decided Por 162 didn't apply to IRAs, all Thai taxes on this IRA would go as a credit against those US taxes I'm certainly legally obligated to pay. Only if Thai taxes exceeded my US taxes, would I take a hit; but that wouldn't happen with current amounts of RMDs.

Anyway, a potential grey area -- but as with all grey areas, give yourself the benefit of the doubt. Certainly, if somehow TRD wanted to chat with you about this, your IRA records, with all that pre 2024 income, and with a copy of Por 162 -- would probably blow the socks off of the ordinary TRD clerk, as well as all the supervisors above him.

Yeah that's an aggressive reading as the mainstream advise is clear. The full withdrawal amount is classified as pension income.

This issue hasn't come up for me yet but when it does I have a Thai lawyer in mind to consult and I would be shocked if he sees it as you do. Living on the bleeding edge isn't for everybody but I do respect you and your knowledge.

Edited August 29Aug 29 by Jingthing

9 minutes ago, JimGant said:

Well, Jingthing, you've seen this argument from me before. But for those Yanks who haven't -- and who might want to consider its implication, I'll resubmit.

Thanks... although not a Yank....I am a tax resident in the US as married to Thai/US citizen and have IRA's there.

I don't recall reading your earlier post of this interpretation so I'm glad you made the effort to repost. 🙏

My compulsive collection and preservation of financial records has left me in good shape to support this interpretation of TRD's Por 162.

5 minutes ago, Jingthing said:

Yeah that's an aggressive reading as the mainstream advise is clear. The full withdrawal amount is classified as pension income.

Your statement is correct ..... and so is Mr. Gant's. I think Jim and I are on solid ground because the Por 162 does not in any way declare that some forms of income are NOT included in its exemption. Our interpretation of TRD's Por 162 based policy would in no way conflict with the Thai/USA tax treaty.

Edited August 29Aug 29 by gamb00ler

Most of us mere civilians follow well established mainstream guidance and are not up to fighting the man on such matters.

Waiting with baited breath to hear actual reports of Americans who have argued that IRA withdrawals are not pensions at a tax office.

So far crickets

Edited August 29Aug 29 by Jingthing

Just now, Jingthing said:

Most of mere civilians follow well established mainstream guidance and are not up to fighting thr man on such matters.

Waiting with baited breath to hear actual reports of Americans who have argued that IRA withdrawals are not pensions at a tax office.

So far crickets

That's not the argument that @JimGant and I are making. Of course it is pension income. Our argument is that ALL pre-2024 income is covered by Por 162.

Just now, gamb00ler said:

That's not the argument that @JimGant and I are making. Of course it is pension income. Our argument is that ALL pre-2024 income is covered by Por 162.

All pension income not covered by the DTA as social security is is fully taxable in Thailand if remitted. The underlying investments and their timing are not relevant for such retirement accounts.

Cite even one credible Thai lawyer or accountant or a Thai tax office ruling who says differently.

You can't, right?

Yeah sure you're welcome to go blending edge if you want.

Most people won't want to unless the theory is well backed up by Thai lawyers.

Edited August 29Aug 29 by Jingthing

5 minutes ago, gamb00ler said:

That's not the argument that @JimGant and I are making. Of course it is pension income. Our argument is that ALL pre-2024 income is covered by Por 162.

So,anything withdrawn pre-2024, yes?

Does it not become income when it is withdrawn?

3 minutes ago, Jingthing said:

All pension income not covered by the DTA as social security is fully taxable in Thailand if remitted. The underlying investments are not relevant.

Cite even one credible Thai lawyer or accountant who says differently.

I have two friends who are embroiled in long running legal battles in Thailand. They both say.... there are no credible Thai lawyers. 🤔

So... inside Thailand.... which legal policy has more weight..... the TRD issued Por 162 VS The USA/Thai tax treaty. The answer clearly leans to the TRD policy as long as it does NOT conflict with the treaty.

Just now, Yellowtail said:

So,anything withdrawn pre-2024, yes?

Does it not become income when it is withdrawn?

No.

IRA withdrawals are classified as pension income. The full amount.

This is an endless loop.

The bleeding edge theory is academic until.we see reports of tax offices accepting it. Don't hold your breath.

18 minutes ago, Jingthing said:

All pension income not covered by the DTA as social security is fully taxable in Thailand if remitted. The underlying investments are not relevant.

That is correct but only according to the treaty. ... But then, TRD decide's that ALL income earned pre-2024 is not taxable whether remitted or NOT. Which, incidentally was also their practice before the recent changes to POLICY (not laws).

The USA/Thai tax treaty confers a 'right' to Thailand to have taxing authority over pension income. It DOES NOT create an obligation by Thailand to do so.

Edited August 29Aug 29 by gamb00ler

17 minutes ago, Yellowtail said:

Does it not become income when it is withdrawn?

Not, according to Por 162, if it was pre-2024 income.

14 minutes ago, gamb00ler said:

I have two friends who are embroiled in long running legal battles in Thailand. They both say.... there are no credible Thai lawyers. 🤔

So... inside Thailand.... which legal policy has more weight..... the TRD issued Por 162 VS The USA/Thai tax treaty. The answer clearly leans to the TRD policy as long as it does NOT conflict with the treaty.

If there were "no credible Thail lawyers", it would be impossible for large domestic companies to operate, much less the countless multinational companies that operated here.

All of my pre-2024 funds from which I have drawn to bring in from the US are from savings/checking. None of it is a taxable event in Thailand; and it has been confirmed by two different Thai tax attorneys from two different law firms in BKK.

Those remittances can be used in full to offset any tax liability for the year, or can be used with deductions that already exist. In my case, I have 500,000 baht in deductions in the current tax code, and social security. If remittances exceed those two tax-free events, pre-2024 funds can be used to offset any additional tax liability.

I'm not a lawyer. I'm only repeating what I was told in consultations.

1 minute ago, JimGant said:

Not, according to Por 162, if it was pre-2024 income.

Are you saying that all the money in a tax differed IRA prior to 2024 is considered pre-2024 income event though it has not been withdrawn?

If that is true, would post 2023 growth be the only income taxable?

19 minutes ago, Jingthing said:

This is an endless loop.

The bleeding edge theory is academic until.we see reports of tax offices accepting it. Don't hold your breath.

This is not bleeding edge... simple interpretation of commonly defined financial terms such as: income, pension, exemption, tax.

pensions are a type of income

tax treaty says Thailand may collect tax on private pensions

TRD decides ALL pre-2024 foreign income is exempt from taxes

TRD also allows LTR holders an exemption from taxation on ALL foreign income

is that bleeding edge? Is there two definitions of ALL?

Edited August 29Aug 29 by gamb00ler

Just now, gamb00ler said:

This is not bleeding edge... simple interpretation of commonly defined financial terms such as: income, pension, exemption, tax.

pensions are a type of income

tax treaty says Thailand may collect tax on private pensions

TRD decides ALL pre-2024 foreign income is exempt from taxes

TRD also allows LTR holders an exemption from taxation on ALL foreign income

is that bleeding edge? Is there two definitions of ALL?

When one draws from an IRA/401k in the US, it is (generally) taxable as income in the year it is withdrawn.

But you are saying that Thailand does not consider that taxable, correct?

9 minutes ago, Yellowtail said:

Are you saying that all the money in a tax differed IRA prior to 2024 is considered pre-2024 income event though it has not been withdrawn?

If that is true, would post 2023 growth be the only income taxable?

If TRD uses the same interpretations of simple financial terms used by the rest of the world.... that is the most logical interpretaion.

Post 2023 IRA contributions that are subsequently withdrawn may be treated differently.

26 minutes ago, Jingthing said:

No.

IRA withdrawals are classified as pension income. The full amount.

Just asking... Where does TRD state that IRA withdrawals are classified as pension income? Only reason I ask is, I receive SS and a traditional company pension which are both paid to me monthly, then I have a Roth IRA which is tax exempt in the US, and a Traditional IRA (tax-deferred) which I pay taxes on if & when I withdraw from it. Both of my IRAs were funded pre-2024. Of course, there's some growth and earnings since Jan 1, 2024.

I'm on a LTR visa, so none of this really impacts me, but I would be interested to know the rules.

Edited August 29Aug 29 by JohnnyBD

Waiting for reports.

5 minutes ago, JohnnyBD said:

Just asking... Where does TRD state that IRA withdrawals are classified as pension income? Only reason I ask is, I receive SS and a traditional company pension which are both paid monthly, then I have a Roth IRA which is tax exempt in the US, and a Traditional IRA (tax-deferred) which I pay taxes on if & when I withdraw from it. Both of my IRAs were funded pre-2024. Of course, there's some growth and earnings since Jan 1, 2024.

I'm on a LTR visa, so none of this really impacts me, but I would be interested to know the rules.

My understanding is that Roth IRAs are seen the same as traditional in Thailand. Pension income not covered by the DTA.

2 minutes ago, Jingthing said:

My understanding is that Roth IRAs are seen the same as traditional in Thailand. Pension income not covered by the DTA.

Do you happen to know where it states that IRA withdrawals are classified as pension income by TRD? The reason I ask is, TRD would not really know where the remittance comes from to declare it pension income, especially if it was withdrawn, then mixed in a bank account with other monies then remitted at a later time.

Edited August 29Aug 29 by JohnnyBD

35 minutes ago, Jingthing said:

Waiting with baited breath to hear actual reports of Americans who have argued that IRA withdrawals are not pensions at a tax office.

Well, your baited breath is going to catch a sardine. I can only assume most Americans haven't put themselves in the situation where they went into a TRD office to discuss tax implications of IRAs. Or, if they did, they were stupid, because no TRD agent/clerk would have the know-all about this subject. And, being Thai -- and not wanting to "not know" or appear stupid -- they would manufacture an answer that could go either way -- pay or don't pay tax on this remittance. Most likely, pay.

So, as has been said many times on this forum, don't go to TRD for advice -- do your own research and go with the supportable position obtained from your research.

And, otherwise, even if you filed a tax return, because you owed taxes on income other than IRAs -- there would be a completely blank line where you might otherwise (cowardly) have input the IRA remittance. So, nothing to discuss. Case closed with TRD -- they've never associated IRAs with your name -- and more likely, probably haven't heard of IRAs.

And, oh, if you did input your IRA remittance on your Thai tax return -- are you going to try to find where on that return you can apply a tax credit from your US tax return? Get pretty messy, right? And, anyway, per DTA, Thailand (as primary) gets to keep all the tax collection -- and the US (as secondary, per the savings clause) had to absorb the credit. Depending on your time, I guess you would then have to amend your US tax return.

Bottom line: Incorporate Por 162 to your advantage. And there's nothing TRD can do to make a case for fraud. Pretty easy decision, in my opinion....

14 minutes ago, gamb00ler said:

If TRD uses the same interpretations of simple financial terms used by the rest of the world.... that is the most logical interpretaion.

Post 2023 IRA contributions that are subsequently withdrawn may be treated differently.

But I'm pretty sure those contributions would be taxable (assuming one is living and working in Thailand) in the year they were contributed.

Why would they tax them again?

36 minutes ago, Ricohoc said:

All of my pre-2024 funds from which I have drawn to bring in from the US are from savings/checking. None of it is a taxable event in Thailand; ....Those remittances can be used in full to offset any tax liability for the year,

How? Those remittances are non assessable income and thus wouldn't show up anywhere on a tax return -- certainly not as a credit. Your tax liability will remain what it is, as the pre-2024 remittances are a non player.