New High End Condos

[realmadrid25]

the fed is going to the rates.

the dollar will decrease.

the economy will increase.

my 10 cent for inflation.

[midas]

the fed is going to the rates.

the dollar will decrease.

the economy will increase.

my 10 cent for inflation.

Yes the dollar will decrease and so will the deficit and

so the debts grow bigger and bigger

[cclub75]

my 10 cent for inflation.

I propose a new concept : the staginfladeflation.

We know :

-inflation

-deflation

-stagflation (zero growth with inflation)

-the staginfladeflation is zero growth (for the sum, but with economic growth and recession in some part of the world and sectors), with deflation and inflation

Sounds ridiculous ? Well look around... The 2 camps (inflation and deflation supporters) are... right, alltogether. It's obvious.

And this explain, why so many people are totally confused by the multiple contradictory signals, datas and indicators.

This is a totally new situation, never experienced before.

-China + other emerging markets will continue to powerfully deflate labor value, and therefore many manufactured goods = deflation

-but meanwhile, their own developpment will put pressure on... a lot of commodities, and some of the most importance (energy/oil, water) and will create new markets = economic growth and inflation (in some part of the world and/or sectors)

-add to this, the financial crisis, the debts, in western countries etc... = recession (in some part of the world and/or sectors)

We get a staggering cocktail !

Edited September 8, 2007 by cclub75

[Crash999]

if The River duplexes (I think 180 sqm) on the river's (slightly isolated) right bank are already getting 200K psm, then its not a stretch to think that other top-end centrally-located freehold projects like the Sukhothai and 185 Rajadamri will get that....

it will be interesting to see what the leasehold residences like the St Regis coming up on Rajadamri (next to the Four Seasons) will get psm...

185 is starting at 170k/m2 and Nigel from Raimon was quoted as saying the premium units could go for as much as 300k/m2.

As for the St. Regis development, "Heinecke said prices for the residences would start at Bt30 million for a 250-square-metre unit and go up to Bt120 million for each of the four 800-square-metre duplex penthouses."

Yikes!

Edited September 8, 2007 by Crash999

[trajan]

St Regis is a 30 year leasehold (instead of freehold) so B120K-150K seems to be in the ballpark, if you take nearby projects as measures.....

185 Raj is freehold, but 300K?? I thinks everyone is waiting for 2008 for launches to test the waters.....

[palm]

You have posted in numerous posts about buying multiple condo's - not one for personal use.

From that I assumed you were investing in these condo's either for capital gain or rental income - why else would you be talking about buying multiples in stead of a home?

What is it with all the whingers?

I live in my main condo next to the river. I just bought another one in suk 11 to use now and then for the odd weekend - it will be complete in about 18 months.

I don't rent any of them.

Sheeesh. lol

[palm]

if The River duplexes (I think 180 sqm) on the river's (slightly isolated) right bank are already getting 200K psm, then its not a stretch to think that other top-end centrally-located freehold projects like the Sukhothai and 185 Rajadamri will get that....

it will be interesting to see what the leasehold residences like the St Regis coming up on Rajadamri (next to the Four Seasons) will get psm...

185 is starting at 170k/m2 and Nigel from Raimon was quoted as saying the premium units could go for as much as 300k/m2.

As for the St. Regis development, "Heinecke said prices for the residences would start at Bt30 million for a 250-square-metre unit and go up to Bt120 million for each of the four 800-square-metre duplex penthouses."

Yikes!

Wow, so now the top end is going to break through 200k/m2.

Surely this is some mistake, as most of the TV whingers are saying prices must fall, and no one would pay those kinds of prices in Bangkok?

[Old Man River]

if The River duplexes (I think 180 sqm) on the river's (slightly isolated) right bank are already getting 200K psm, then its not a stretch to think that other top-end centrally-located freehold projects like the Sukhothai and 185 Rajadamri will get that....

it will be interesting to see what the leasehold residences like the St Regis coming up on Rajadamri (next to the Four Seasons) will get psm...

185 is starting at 170k/m2 and Nigel from Raimon was quoted as saying the premium units could go for as much as 300k/m2.

As for the St. Regis development, "Heinecke said prices for the residences would start at Bt30 million for a 250-square-metre unit and go up to Bt120 million for each of the four 800-square-metre duplex penthouses."

Yikes!

Wow, so now the top end is going to break through 200k/m2.

Surely this is some mistake, as most of the TV whingers are saying prices must fall, and no one would pay those kinds of prices in Bangkok?

Given their great locations at Chidlom and Wireless, all of these other ultra priced condos are beginning to make The Park and The Athenee look like tremendous bargains. Yes, the bubble will have to burst as it does eventually worldwide, but properties in great locations that are "modestly priced" will continue to do well.

[UnknownPoster]

People that buy the best condo in the best location will do very well over the long term.

[chownah]

People that buy the best condo in the best location will do very well over the long term.

For people who buy the best condo in the best location it really doesn't matter if they do well because having this nest is really not a significant investment to them....as near as I can tell.

But I'm only a rice farmer and have never even been in a high rise condo!!!!

Chownah

[kaxper]

I am wondering if others can share some insight into why the rumoured prices for some of the new "super luxury" developments in the condo market are being touted at around THB200,000 psm. I am thinking specifically of The Sukhothai Residences, and 185 Rajadamri. I am wondering who will buy developments at these prices? Assuming 51% are Thai buyers, would the potential 49% of foriegners want to spend USD1m+ on property in a country where this so much uncertainty regarding political developments, (no election date fixed, no certain outcome, marshal law, high value baht, uncertain immigration laws etc). I know that THB200k psm is still a lot less than Hong Kong, Singapore or London, but these cities are in first world countries. For Thais with this sort of money, when there is a limited market for re-sale, what is the attraction for them? This is unless of course there is huge pent-up demand for property, which is waiting to explode upwards once the political situation eases.

just to put it in prospective, out of the 10,000+ condos being released in the market per year, the sukhothai residence and 185 rajadamri is probably only 500 units, plus maybe river will be 1000 units. there are still plenty (most) of Bt40-80k/sqm units released by other developers developers in the BMA so i wouldnt be using the Bt200k/sqm as either a benhmark for Thai condo market, or any example of "pent up demand", or resale ability. the question is are there really 510 Thais and 490 foreigners wanting to buy "super luxury" developments in Bangkok, sure there are .. probably a lot more !

for those bitching about how expensive Bt200k/sqm is, may i direct you to the LPN site ... www.lpn.co.th ... still great deals at Bt60k/sqm.

[bingobongo]

if The River duplexes (I think 180 sqm) on the river's (slightly isolated) right bank are already getting 200K psm, then its not a stretch to think that other top-end centrally-located freehold projects like the Sukhothai and 185 Rajadamri will get that....

it will be interesting to see what the leasehold residences like the St Regis coming up on Rajadamri (next to the Four Seasons) will get psm...

185 is starting at 170k/m2 and Nigel from Raimon was quoted as saying the premium units could go for as much as 300k/m2.

As for the St. Regis development, "Heinecke said prices for the residences would start at Bt30 million for a 250-square-metre unit and go up to Bt120 million for each of the four 800-square-metre duplex penthouses."

Yikes!

Wow, so now the top end is going to break through 200k/m2.

Surely this is some mistake, as most of the TV whingers are saying prices must fall, and no one would pay those kinds of prices in Bangkok?

the old adage "fools and their money are soon separated"

comes to mind

[bloody tiger]

Slide on up to Chiang Mai where the top end condo's are around 40K/m....we also have a nice relaxed healthy lifestyle, ice cold beer and daily postal service. When you check in on your cheap nokair flight from BKK, be sure to use the secret password "sawasdee krub/ka" to recieve your free gift....a months free subsription to this forum

BTW. I had to delay writing this reply for 4 hours and a dozen beers as i felt obligated to after reading this post :

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=141124

BTW2. omitted by poster due to excessive beer consumption

chock dee na krub

The Bloodied Tger

[quiksilva]

if The River duplexes (I think 180 sqm) on the river's (slightly isolated) right bank are already getting 200K psm, then its not a stretch to think that other top-end centrally-located freehold projects like the Sukhothai and 185 Rajadamri will get that....

it will be interesting to see what the leasehold residences like the St Regis coming up on Rajadamri (next to the Four Seasons) will get psm...

185 is starting at 170k/m2 and Nigel from Raimon was quoted as saying the premium units could go for as much as 300k/m2.

As for the St. Regis development, "Heinecke said prices for the residences would start at Bt30 million for a 250-square-metre unit and go up to Bt120 million for each of the four 800-square-metre duplex penthouses."

Yikes!

Wow, so now the top end is going to break through 200k/m2.

Surely this is some mistake, as most of the TV whingers are saying prices must fall, and no one would pay those kinds of prices in Bangkok?

the old adage "fools and their money are soon separated"

comes to mind

So what? Real estate is a business, and just so as long as there are, people willing to pay those prices, others will profit from them. So when considering just how much more growth the market will experience and whether the market can bear to go to even higher price points, the real question becomes just how many of these people are there out there?

The last time I checked there are more millionaires in the world than there has ever been before.

World Wealth Report 2007 - "The 11th annual World Wealth Report from Merrill Lynch/Capgemini finds the World’s High Net Worth (HNW) population growing to 9.5 million with their assets rising to $37.2 trillion."[2]

Some growth in international wealth and the number of high net worth individuals can be attributed to the weakness of the US dollar, as stated in the report.

HNWIs (more than $1 million, in 2006)

Region Number Percentage of regional population

Global 9,500,000 0.15%

North America 3,200,000 0.62%

Europe 2,900,000 0.41%

Asia-Pacific 2,600,000 0.06%

Latin America 400,000 0.07%

Middle East 300,000 N/A

Africa 100,000 0.01%

[Prakanong]

if The River duplexes (I think 180 sqm) on the river's (slightly isolated) right bank are already getting 200K psm, then its not a stretch to think that other top-end centrally-located freehold projects like the Sukhothai and 185 Rajadamri will get that....

it will be interesting to see what the leasehold residences like the St Regis coming up on Rajadamri (next to the Four Seasons) will get psm...

185 is starting at 170k/m2 and Nigel from Raimon was quoted as saying the premium units could go for as much as 300k/m2.

As for the St. Regis development, "Heinecke said prices for the residences would start at Bt30 million for a 250-square-metre unit and go up to Bt120 million for each of the four 800-square-metre duplex penthouses."

Yikes!

Wow, so now the top end is going to break through 200k/m2.

Surely this is some mistake, as most of the TV whingers are saying prices must fall, and no one would pay those kinds of prices in Bangkok?

the old adage "fools and their money are soon separated"

comes to mind

Let him brag like a spotty teenager getting his hole for the first time or a middle aged man on the rebound from his western divorce with his younger Thai model - the Chinese have a saying for this!

His Thai girlfriend will be happy in the end though - I bet she eggs on the spending no end

[Prakanong]

if The River duplexes (I think 180 sqm) on the river's (slightly isolated) right bank are already getting 200K psm, then its not a stretch to think that other top-end centrally-located freehold projects like the Sukhothai and 185 Rajadamri will get that....

it will be interesting to see what the leasehold residences like the St Regis coming up on Rajadamri (next to the Four Seasons) will get psm...

185 is starting at 170k/m2 and Nigel from Raimon was quoted as saying the premium units could go for as much as 300k/m2.

As for the St. Regis development, "Heinecke said prices for the residences would start at Bt30 million for a 250-square-metre unit and go up to Bt120 million for each of the four 800-square-metre duplex penthouses."

Yikes!

Wow, so now the top end is going to break through 200k/m2.

Surely this is some mistake, as most of the TV whingers are saying prices must fall, and no one would pay those kinds of prices in Bangkok?

the old adage "fools and their money are soon separated"

comes to mind

So what? Real estate is a business, and just so as long as there are, people willing to pay those prices, others will profit from them. So when considering just how much more growth the market will experience and whether the market can bear to go to even higher price points, the real question becomes just how many of these people are there out there?

The last time I checked there are more millionaires in the world than there has ever been before.

World Wealth Report 2007 - "The 11th annual World Wealth Report from Merrill Lynch/Capgemini finds the World's High Net Worth (HNW) population growing to 9.5 million with their assets rising to $37.2 trillion."[2]

Some growth in international wealth and the number of high net worth individuals can be attributed to the weakness of the US dollar, as stated in the report.

HNWIs (more than $1 million, in 2006)

Region Number Percentage of regional population

Global 9,500,000 0.15%

North America 3,200,000 0.62%

Europe 2,900,000 0.41%

Asia-Pacific 2,600,000 0.06%

Latin America 400,000 0.07%

Middle East 300,000 N/A

Africa 100,000 0.01%

Certainly the number of high net worth individuals is increasing in most places - I think there is a report from one of the big 4 indicating just how much wealth there will be in Europe in 20 years and its stil on the increase.

Here in Singapore there are 2000 people earning over 1 million SGD a year - that is 1 in 2000 with a population of 4 million. This is just yearly income and there is their net worth on top of that. On my MBA there is a young Chinese Singaporean of circa 30. He has 6 very good properties here already and is looking to buy more - he has a salaried day to day job as an accountant.

He did smirk on Saturday when I pointed out a BKK property agvertised in the Straits times.

[Gary A]

I think it's the old saying, "Easy come easy go". People who have had the money given to them spend it more freely than people who had to earn it themselves. People who earned it themselves will easily survive but those who got for not working will be in BIG trouble when the money runs out.

[trajan]

so has anyone bought a unit at the Sukhothai? they soft-launched already and prices average B200K psm.....

[pkrv]

so has anyone bought a unit at the Sukhothai? they soft-launched already and prices average B200K psm.....

Hi trajan - looked at the web site

http://www.sukhothairesidences.com/

Very pretty, but there is not enough info on it for me to even begin to consider - The web site is 'all style no substance' - local interest may know but from a Ferang perspective (using the web) 'I cannot see' why would I even request information?

200K psm now seems to be the norm for upmarket developments, when I were a lad for 100k your were killed three times before breakfast then forced to eat gravel (sorry monty python ) etc..

[think_too_mut]

so has anyone bought a unit at the Sukhothai? they soft-launched already and prices average B200K psm.....

Hi trajan - looked at the web site

http://www.sukhothairesidences.com/

Very pretty, but there is not enough info on it for me to even begin to consider - The web site is 'all style no substance' - local interest may know but from a Ferang perspective (using the web) 'I cannot see' why would I even request information?

200K psm now seems to be the norm for upmarket developments, when I were a lad for 100k your were killed three times before breakfast then forced to eat gravel (sorry monty python ) etc..

200K psqm? That makes it more fun when you have to abandon the worthless property, hoping no special stamp is sealed into your passport.

500US$ sqm , max for BKK. Even that will be lost.

[ya5702]

so has anyone bought a unit at the Sukhothai? they soft-launched already and prices average B200K psm.....

Hi trajan - looked at the web site

http://www.sukhothairesidences.com/

Very pretty, but there is not enough info on it for me to even begin to consider - The web site is 'all style no substance' - local interest may know but from a Ferang perspective (using the web) 'I cannot see' why would I even request information?

They are soliciting for market response. Pricing will depend on the response. "To price it as much as the market can bear!" says the Boss.

Best is to ignore it.

[pkrv]

so has anyone bought a unit at the Sukhothai? they soft-launched already and prices average B200K psm.....

Hi trajan - looked at the web site

http://www.sukhothairesidences.com/

Very pretty, but there is not enough info on it for me to even begin to consider - The web site is 'all style no substance' - local interest may know but from a Ferang perspective (using the web) 'I cannot see' why would I even request information?

200K psm now seems to be the norm for upmarket developments, when I were a lad for 100k your were killed three times before breakfast then forced to eat gravel (sorry monty python ) etc..

200K psqm? That makes it more fun when you have to abandon the worthless property, hoping no special stamp is sealed into your passport.

500US$ sqm , max for BKK. Even that will be lost.

<begin wicked>

So about 50p then?

</end very wicked>

[merlion]

so has anyone bought a unit at the Sukhothai? they soft-launched already and prices average B200K psm.....

Hi trajan - looked at the web site

http://www.sukhothairesidences.com/

Very pretty, but there is not enough info on it for me to even begin to consider - The web site is 'all style no substance' - local interest may know but from a Ferang perspective (using the web) 'I cannot see' why would I even request information?

200K psm now seems to be the norm for upmarket developments, when I were a lad for 100k your were killed three times before breakfast then forced to eat gravel (sorry monty python ) etc..

200K psqm? That makes it more fun when you have to abandon the worthless property, hoping no special stamp is sealed into your passport.

500US$ sqm , max for BKK. Even that will be lost.

The Sukothai Residence selling above 240k psm.....

[samtam]

They claim to have sold out their 2 bed condos at these prices too. But possibly this is a marketing ploy? Personally I think the layout is bizarre and a completely wasted opportunity to create something truly spectacular. But to non Thai residents THB240K psm is not high, (compared to say HK and Singapore). There is of course one small criteria that's different. It's Bangkok!

[gerry1011]

Last week I went for "condo shopping" in Bangkok, and had the opportunity to visit a beautiful unit at " Le Raffine 39" building, still under construction.

Apart from the fact that I loved the dimensions and setting of the top floor duplex that I was shown (112 million for 563 sqm, 2 floors unit which will have its own swimming pool, etc...), I noticed the following:

Nearly all the expensive units (70 million up) on the upper floors have been sold. Only 7 units in the "foreigner quota" remain to be sold. The most expensive units are nearly all already sold, mostly to Europeans and Asians.

But the lower (cheaper) floors remain available.

The reason is I think quite simple. For wealthy people, to pay 70 million or 100 million does not make a difference. So, the developers better ask top prices to top people.

The cheaper units (40 to 70 millions) might be too expensive to the common buyers... and too cheap for the top buyers, who are not interested in even considering to buy a unit on a lower floor.

I wonder how they will get rid of the cheaper units... Will they discount at the end?

It is just a question, I am not interested in a cheap unit at all, and not looking at making any kind of investment by buying a condo

[drmap]

Well I just bought at the Manhatten which is in the Chitlom area 1 minute walk from Central. We knew it was not a super great investment in that Singapore may be better ( I said maybe as anything is possible).

Our motivation was simple in that we just wanted a cool place to hang out and the money we would have to spend in Singapore would not buy a third of what we bought in BKK. We do not want to lose our shirt either, so we evlauated this place well. The opinion with regard to buying a condo in BKK I have about each negative point raised in this forum follows:

Thai politics, tanks in street etc-----This is Thailand nothing new really but always survives these blips on radar, not Burma, Not Viet Nam and not China where the goverment changes tor could change things at a whim. There is too much at stake from farangs here to totally disregard foreign interest would be crazy and will not happen. Thailand will be thailand and only a fool would believe that tanks in the street or change in goverment will have major impact on anything-----never before and not in the forseable future.

US Ecomomy/ world ecomony etc etc.---what will be will be and it will cycle back around, we have staying power so if we cant sell for ten years so be it.

Over Supply issues---well maybe some worry, but there are already some corrections and seems that growth will slow. Yet as some have said we have more people with more money than ever before. At the low end and middle end we have may baby boomers looking to retire in less costly place. At one point in my life , I never heard of my fellow USA citizens talk about Thailand except as some exoctic weird dream, now the 40-60 crowd I am around mentions it as a definte consideration. Asians more so expecially from China, Japan and some Singaporeans.

Location, Location , Location---well the consideration is important, Central area is it growing like leaps and bounds with the name meaning exactly what it says--the heart of BKK.

Investment--well if I was going to make my first million this may not be the spot, but maybe if done right. I believe its a solid place with better rates than the bank will give you and maybe better than stocks the way it looks. For me diversity is important and some real estate in BKK as both a place to hang out and to diversify is good thing. Yet again we like BKK and so that was the main factor not to be a real estate tycoon. Yes there are better investments. USA will be cheaper in another 6 months for example. Then if you have ten to fifteen years you will make a killing.

China factor---total speculation but there are a lot of chinese with money across the border? They are world shopping right now and close proximity may be good choice as is sinagpore of course.

Well these are my two cents as one who actually bought mid range 90sqm at Manhatten.

Did anyone else her buy anything?

regards

m

[trajan]

They claim to have sold out their 2 bed condos at these prices too. But possibly this is a marketing ploy? Personally I think the layout is bizarre and a completely wasted opportunity to create something truly spectacular. But to non Thai residents THB240K psm is not high, (compared to say HK and Singapore). There is of course one small criteria that's different. It's Bangkok!

It may be true....remember they are only selling NW side (facing the Sukhumvit skyline) at the moment and alot of the units are already reserved by deposit....

All 13 NW-facing 2-bedroom duplexes already seem spoken for. however, they are cheaper than B240 psm (a price someone previously mentioned), closer to B200K...

the 22 other 2-bedroom NW-facing units might also be spoken for....

the 2-bedroom units range from about 120 to 160 sqms....

[samtam]

Good luck to them. It's quite possible that the property market will have improved considerably by their projected completion date, (2011/12), but there will be other "super luxury" condos on the market by then, (including 185 Rajadamri, who are no doubt watching the Sukhothai experience very closely). But I can't quite join up the disconnect of 200% differences in prices between new (The Sukhothai Res) and old in the same area, (THB240k psm vs THB80k psm). To me it just doesn't make any sense at all. There surely must be a narrowing of the gap one way or the other.

[trajan]

resales of The Met are now exceeding B170K psm.....Sukhothai about B200K...

on that level, where are the B80K psm units? Id really be interested to get some of that...

[samtam]

I'm talking about old units at THB80psm - Sathorn Park Place, (formerly Grade A). I know there's a discount on older property, but my point is, why 200%? Why even 100% in your Met example?

Edited November 27, 2007 by samtam