trajan Posted November 27, 2007 Share Posted November 27, 2007 oh, well thats comparing apples and oranges in terms of product.... or probably first class seat compared to economy or biz class seat....(which is often 100% to 400% difference in price)... I guess its a matter of what appeals to the particular buyer in question..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trajan Posted November 27, 2007 Share Posted November 27, 2007 Good luck to them. It's quite possible that the property market will have improved considerably by their projected completion date, (2011/12), but there will be other "super luxury" condos on the market by then, (including 185 Rajadamri, who are no doubt watching the Sukhothai experience very closely). ... you can be sure that 185 Rajadamri is not gonna be cheaper psm.....the news reports were quoting the Raimon Land boss as saying premium units could reach B300K psm..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
samtam Posted November 27, 2007 Author Share Posted November 27, 2007 oh, well thats comparing apples and oranges in terms of product....or probably first class seat compared to economy or biz class seat....(which is often 100% to 400% difference in price)... I guess its a matter of what appeals to the particular buyer in question..... Well, your analogies are interesting ones. However, my economy class seat is way bigger than your first class seat, and with a better view. I know which one I'd rather have, but because the market has no depth I believe the margin is far too wide; you clearly do not. The political upheaval that is surely coming for the two obvious reasons will surely demonstrate that quite effectively. The first of these events will happen around 24th December 2007. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trajan Posted November 27, 2007 Share Posted November 27, 2007 Well, your analogies are interesting ones. However, my economy class seat is way bigger than your first class seat, and with a better view. I know which one I'd rather have, but because the market has no depth I believe the margin is far too wide; you clearly do not. The political upheaval that is surely coming for the two obvious reasons will surely demonstrate that quite effectively. The first of these events will happen around 24th December 2007. well Im talking about quality and management etc. at the very top places, not overall sq. meterage for any particular unit......sure there are a lot of older, lesser quality places that are bigger and less expensive psm, but that doesnt necessarily make them more attractive to a certain niche of buyer/resident..... I disagree about your point about a better view... well, I guess Im alittle more optimistic about the longer term for the very top niche...you speak of market depth, but remember, we are only talking about a very few "super-lux" projects (a tiny number of units compared to the overall market)...Sukhothai has 180 or so units ..size ranging from 120-340 sq meters...plus 9 penthouses ranging from 430 to 1200 sq meters... on the same note, I would venture to guess that the 180-200 units at the 185 Rajadamri probably launching soon, will go at even a higher premium psm, but will have no trouble in selling...(how many more freehold lots are available on Rajadamri??)... I personally would rather have top quality places to enjoy in the future (even for a premium price, and also as a kind of forced savings plan)..... but if your talking about local real estate investments for current rental purposes or for flipping, well yeah, riskier because of current over-supply, shorter term policies, etc. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
buddhafly Posted November 27, 2007 Share Posted November 27, 2007 all that i seem to see these days is higher end places.... are there many midrange places? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
samtam Posted November 27, 2007 Author Share Posted November 27, 2007 (edited) well Im talking about quality and management etc. at the very top places, not overall sq. meterage for any particular unit......sure there are a lot of older, lesser quality places that are bigger and less expensive psm, but that doesnt necessarily make them more attractive to a certain niche of buyer/resident.....I disagree about your point about a better view... Yes, I absolutely agree about quality and management. I would agree that the management of The Sukhothai Residences will be second to none, and I was very interested in it for that reason. We don't know who will manage 185 Rajadamri, or the Met. As for quality, we have to assume that it will indeed be better for a new build, but sometimes this is a lottery. The finish at The Park Chidlom isn't that impressive; the swimming pool is a joke. The layout of The Suk Res is very bizarre indeed, with triple height ceilings in one area of the three bed, which is totally disproportionate to the smallness of the rest of the layout. The stairway in duplex 1/2 beds is very steep, and I wouldn't fancy that after a late night of too many glasses of DP. As to the view at Suk Res, who knows what that will be, as the western view overlooks some very old dwellings. I personally would rather have top quality places to enjoy in the future (even for a premium price, and also as a kind of forced savings plan)..... but if your talking about local real estate investments for current rental purposes or for flipping, well yeah, riskier because of current over-supply, shorter term policies, etc. I am here to live, and I too would rather have a top quality place to live. But unfortunately with no zoning paying 200% more for the same area location seems a bit incongruous. I think this is a very crucial time in the property market and the future is not certain. Unfortunately the delay of over 1 year for the launch hasn't been benficial to HK Realty. If anything the uncertainty is higher than 1 year ago, and the world economy is much more wobbly. But I hope you're right, and I'm wrong. Edited November 27, 2007 by samtam Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dotcom Posted November 27, 2007 Share Posted November 27, 2007 (edited) Quick math lesson. The difference between 80,000 psm & 240,000 psm is 300% - NOT 200 % as you mentioned. Or triple for those mathematically challenged. Our buddy above says top dollar is US $ 500 per meter. When we multiply by a generous 34 baht per 1 US we get 17,000 baht per meter. That won't buy you much condo unless you like walking up 5 flights in an unlighted stairway somewhere (Mung Tong Thani for example). In my building they are asking 29,000 & I would pay it no problem. A well kept property with 4 working elevators. Edited November 27, 2007 by dotcom Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trajan Posted November 27, 2007 Share Posted November 27, 2007 The layout of The Suk Res is very bizarre indeed, with triple height ceilings in one area of the three bed, which is totally disproportionate to the smallness of the rest of the layout. The stairway in duplex 1/2 beds is very steep, and I wouldn't fancy that after a late night of too many glasses of DP. As to the view at Suk Res, who knows what that will be, as the western view overlooks some very old dwellings. I think you are refering to the mock-up of the C unit? the living room is double (duplex) height and I thought it was very nice....(however my favorite was the D duplex unit with a plunge pool etc., but way beyond my budget).... I agree the stairway was steep, but it didnt bother me overall, I really liked the layout of the 2 bedroom duplex..with the private elevator entrance (which could have been a bit bigger)... I think the western views overlooking the low rise embassies etc. in the immediate area looking towards the Sukhumvit Road skyscraper skyline in the distance is ideal (at least for me)...still have the feeling of being in the city, but private.....and being in the midst of my favorite hotel in Bangkok is the kicker...understated elegance.... I am here to live, and I too would rather have a top quality place to live. But unfortunately with no zoning paying 200% more for the same area location seems a bit incongruous.I think this is a very crucial time in the property market and the future is not certain. Unfortunately the delay of over 1 year for the launch hasn't been benficial to HK Realty. If anything the uncertainty is higher than 1 year ago, and the world economy is much more wobbly. But I hope you're right, and I'm wrong. zoning? in Bangkok...haphazard at best...just because a project is in your area or neighborhood it doesnt automatically confer any special status (or assumptions on quality, per sp meter price etc.)....squatter shacks in the same general area of mansions.... I dont see it as incongruous at all in the local environment... we'll see.....it will be interesting to read this in a few years time.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
samtam Posted November 27, 2007 Author Share Posted November 27, 2007 (edited) resales of The Met are now exceeding B170K psm.....Sukhothai about B200K... Not all of The Met are selling at that price. There's one that's been on Hampton's website at THB140 psm for some time. Sorry dotcom. You're right about 300%. Supports my argument even more.....that the gap is far too wide. Edited November 27, 2007 by samtam Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
samtam Posted November 27, 2007 Author Share Posted November 27, 2007 The layout of The Suk Res is very bizarre indeed, with triple height ceilings in one area of the three bed, which is totally disproportionate to the smallness of the rest of the layout. The stairway in duplex 1/2 beds is very steep, and I wouldn't fancy that after a late night of too many glasses of DP. As to the view at Suk Res, who knows what that will be, as the western view overlooks some very old dwellings. I think you are refering to the mock-up of the C unit? the living room is double (duplex) height and I thought it was very nice....(however my favorite was the D duplex unit with a plunge pool etc., but way beyond my budget).... I agree the stairway was steep, but it didnt bother me overall, I really liked the layout of the 2 bedroom duplex..with the private elevator entrance (which could have been a bit bigger)... I think the western views overlooking the low rise embassies etc. in the immediate area looking towards the Sukhumvit Road skyscraper skyline in the distance is ideal (at least for me)...still have the feeling of being in the city, but private.....and being in the midst of my favorite hotel in Bangkok is the kicker...understated elegance.... I am here to live, and I too would rather have a top quality place to live. But unfortunately with no zoning paying 200% more for the same area location seems a bit incongruous.I think this is a very crucial time in the property market and the future is not certain. Unfortunately the delay of over 1 year for the launch hasn't been benficial to HK Realty. If anything the uncertainty is higher than 1 year ago, and the world economy is much more wobbly. But I hope you're right, and I'm wrong. zoning? in Bangkok...haphazard at best...just because a project is in your area or neighborhood it doesnt automatically confer any special status (or assumptions on quality, per sp meter price etc.)....squatter shacks in the same general area of mansions.... I dont see it as incongruous at all in the local environment... we'll see.....it will be interesting to read this in a few years time.... Ah, but do you like it enough to buy it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Raptor7 Posted November 27, 2007 Share Posted November 27, 2007 Ah, but do you like it enough to buy it? very good chance Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trajan Posted November 27, 2007 Share Posted November 27, 2007 Hi trajan - looked at the web sitehttp://www.sukhothairesidences.com/ Very pretty, but there is not enough info on it for me to even begin to consider - The web site is 'all style no substance' - local interest may know but from a Ferang perspective (using the web) 'I cannot see' why would I even request information? hi, have you seen the site lately? there is a fair amount of info now.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
samtam Posted November 30, 2007 Author Share Posted November 30, 2007 Well, your analogies are interesting ones. However, my economy class seat is way bigger than your first class seat, and with a better view. I know which one I'd rather have, but because the market has no depth I believe the margin is far too wide; you clearly do not. The political upheaval that is surely coming for the two obvious reasons will surely demonstrate that quite effectively. The first of these events will happen around 24th December 2007. well Im talking about quality and management etc. at the very top places, not overall sq. meterage for any particular unit......sure there are a lot of older, lesser quality places that are bigger and less expensive psm, but that doesnt necessarily make them more attractive to a certain niche of buyer/resident..... I disagree about your point about a better view... well, I guess Im alittle more optimistic about the longer term for the very top niche...you speak of market depth, but remember, we are only talking about a very few "super-lux" projects (a tiny number of units compared to the overall market)...Sukhothai has 180 or so units ..size ranging from 120-340 sq meters...plus 9 penthouses ranging from 430 to 1200 sq meters... on the same note, I would venture to guess that the 180-200 units at the 185 Rajadamri probably launching soon, will go at even a higher premium psm, but will have no trouble in selling...(how many more freehold lots are available on Rajadamri??)... I personally would rather have top quality places to enjoy in the future (even for a premium price, and also as a kind of forced savings plan)..... but if your talking about local real estate investments for current rental purposes or for flipping, well yeah, riskier because of current over-supply, shorter term policies, etc. Top quality is a relative term. Tonight, (as previously) they are holding an outside party in the function room area garden with very loud music playing. It's more akin to a third rate karaoke bar than a 5 star hotel. But I suppose if noise doesn't bother you, you'll have a great time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gary A Posted December 1, 2007 Share Posted December 1, 2007 I really think people have lost the plot. You can build a very plush home for about 20,000 to 25,000 baht per square meter. Let's say a Bangkok building lot of one rai costs 50,000,000 baht. Dividing that by the 1,600 square meters in a rai comes to31,250 baht per square meter. 50,000,000 baht is just a figure I plucked out of the air. Paying that for a rai of land is ridiculous but no where near as ridiculous as paying 150,000 baht per square meter for a condo. How do they come up with these figures? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Abrak Posted December 1, 2007 Share Posted December 1, 2007 I really think people have lost the plot. You can build a very plush home for about 20,000 to 25,000 baht per square meter. Let's say a Bangkok building lot of one rai costs 50,000,000 baht. Dividing that by the 1,600 square meters in a rai comes to31,250 baht per square meter. 50,000,000 baht is just a figure I plucked out of the air. Paying that for a rai of land is ridiculous but no where near as ridiculous as paying 150,000 baht per square meter for a condo. How do they come up with these figures? Well costs have risen a lot. It is noticeable that two of the high end developers - Sansiri and Raimon - have consistently reported losses or almost negligible profits. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pkrv Posted December 3, 2007 Share Posted December 3, 2007 Hi trajan - looked at the web sitehttp://www.sukhothairesidences.com/ Very pretty, but there is not enough info on it for me to even begin to consider - The web site is 'all style no substance' - local interest may know but from a Ferang perspective (using the web) 'I cannot see' why would I even request information? hi, have you seen the site lately? there is a fair amount of info now.... Hi Trajan - thanks - yes the site has improved a lot and I will take a more in-depth look. The first thing I went for was the location map, but did not see where the Sukhothair was as a pin in the map (I may be blind). Interestingly I just stayed at services apartments on the Sathorn Road (Siri Sathorn). Extraordinarily good value for money for basically a flat serviced like a hotel – amazing. So I know the area - it is quite 'polarised' in terms of entertainment and facilities (Namura bank plus many other major players are there), but then again I think diversity is a very healthy thing. IMO the West End of equivalent of London. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pkrv Posted December 3, 2007 Share Posted December 3, 2007 Ok I claim jet lag as an excuse. Found the pin - So near the Banyan Tree/Vertigo (preferred Sirocco ). Crossing the Sathorn roads really means taking a taxi to get to the BTS, though the Metro at Lumphini may be accessible but needs to be checked. It is interesting that developments are pushing south and outwards from Sala Daeng BTS Some of the traffic is really heavy we could not walk from Siri Sathorn (actually on Soi Saladaeng not shown on this map) to the night market without risking life and limb due to the Sathorn Roads. So though very easily walked a taxi was definitely needed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trajan Posted December 3, 2007 Share Posted December 3, 2007 from Raimon Land report (Nov 30th 07) on Bangkok premium condo (current prices psm----B200K per sq meter seems to be the top-of-the-top end): SATHORN Sukhothai (197 units) B200K + The Met (370 units) B130K-B164K The Infinity (108 units) B122K-B142K CENTRAL LUMPINI 185 Rajadamri (250 units) B200K+ Baan Rajadamri B170K Park Chidlom (219 units) B131K-B135K Athenee (219 units) B125K-140K SUKHUMVIT Millennium (302 units) B105K-B145K The Lakes (165 units) B110K Madison (151 units) B95K-B110K RIVERSIDE The River (phase 1)(512 units) B90K-B210K Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
samtam Posted December 3, 2007 Author Share Posted December 3, 2007 Raimon Land obviously have an interest in seeing these high end prices with their development at 185 Rajadamri, which some have suggested will sell at around THB300psm. Ditto their interest in The River. I've been offered a Park Chidlom at THB155psm, but unfortunately the design again is an issue, as on the south side, (which will have the new Central development of over 80 stories high - in the former British Embassy land - the sun streams in, and it will be extremely hot, as their is no in-built screening, and the windows are floor to ceiling. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pkrv Posted December 3, 2007 Share Posted December 3, 2007 (edited) Raimon Land obviously have an interest in seeing these high end prices with their development at 185 Rajadamri, which some have suggested will sell at around THB300psm. Ditto their interest in The River. I've been offered a Park Chidlom at THB155psm, but unfortunately the design again is an issue, as on the south side, (which will have the new Central development of over 80 stories high - in the former British Embassy land - the sun streams in, and it will be extremely hot, as their is no in-built screening, and the windows are floor to ceiling. Hi samtam - you are referring to this development. http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showthread.p...age=1&pp=20 Very different and on hold I believe, is now perhaps two towers? - but need to revist. Its too far away from The Park to have any impact, it will just add to the skyline. Here is a map that may assist: (it is the big red area The Park is the green area mid far left) http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/index.php?ac...st&id=11721 On windows, these are the latest technology imported from France, double glazed with a 25mm gap they weigh a lot! and are designed to stop dead in their tracks (without assistance) the issues you refer to whist providing a panaromic view. I will try to find out more details. BTW The Park had trouble installing them there was insufficient local expertise. From a personal perspective I can also say when I visited two weeks ago - no aircon on 11 am sunlight streaming in - cool as a cucumber! Also The Address is being constructed to the north of The Park: http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showthread.php?t=373643 It is a two building structure (just like The Park) 24 storey + 21. Its relationship to The Park is shown here: http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/index.php?ac...st&id=19106 I understand that the ceiling height at The Park is 2.8 m and as such 7 floors at The Park equates to 11 floors in a more standard construction, which I believe that the Address is. Also Level 1 and 2 at The Park (where apartments start in each block) are already 10.45m and 13.75m 'off the ground'. Impact may only be to floors 12, 13 or possibly 14 and below on the north side. If you have been offered 155 THB psqm be aware that the individual has to complete (which they almost certainly cannot have done) or lose their 30% down payment - speculators should have understood the contract..... Edited December 3, 2007 by pkrv Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trajan Posted December 3, 2007 Share Posted December 3, 2007 Raimon Land obviously have an interest in seeing these high end prices with their development at 185 Rajadamri, which some have suggested will sell at around THB300psm. Ditto their interest in The River. of course, but it doesnt make the prices any less accurate... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
backflip Posted December 6, 2007 Share Posted December 6, 2007 "...which some have suggested will sell at around THB300psm. Ditto their interest in The River. I've been offered a Park Chidlom at THB155psm." 300THB/sqm - that's very cheap. I'd expect the price to be in the neighborhood of 300K THB/sqm. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trajan Posted December 12, 2007 Share Posted December 12, 2007 Baht300K psm is not cheap for Bangkok....that's super expensive at the present time IMHO (even with a panorama view of the Royal Sports Club grounds and/or Lumpini Park).... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
think_too_mut Posted December 12, 2007 Share Posted December 12, 2007 Baht300K psm is not cheap for Bangkok....that's super expensive at the present time IMHO (even with a panorama view of the Royal Sports Club grounds and/or Lumpini Park).... The places are unsellable. Try it. What view? Over that muddy stream with rusted barges? You call it a view? Or hazy plains full of slums? 500US$ sqm is the most anything in BKK deserves. Even then, you have to know your way out and abandon the property without some nasty stamp in your passport. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trajan Posted December 13, 2007 Share Posted December 13, 2007 my guess would be avg Baht250K (~US$7,300) per sq meter for the freehold "185 Rajadamri" condos overlooking the Royal Sports Club (ex-Cambodian Embassy site) when they launch next year..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
samtam Posted December 15, 2007 Author Share Posted December 15, 2007 What I would also be interested in learning, (from those in the business perhaps), is what happens to the larger older condominiums when they get to say 40-50 years old. Does anyone have any knowledge of what transpires, or are these types of building not at that stage of maturity? My building is currently 17 years old, in a prime location, (next to The Sukhothai Residences), and 300% cheaper. The whys and wherefores of this price differential have been discussed, but at some stage (maybe not for another 20 years), someone is going to realise that it's a valuable piece of land, based on its location. What is the likely scenario, (based on any experience)? Regarding think too mut's comments about where these so-called luxury condos are located, I agree, and indeed mentioned it in one of my earlier posts in this forum, on the basis of there being no zoning. (The south side of the Suk Res site overlooks a newly built LCH development, previously a shanty slum, that was burnt down.) I think their pricing is perhaps ahead of its time - by about 10 years. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pkrv Posted December 15, 2007 Share Posted December 15, 2007 (edited) I don't think anyone really has any practical experience on this aspect of Condos in Bangkok. Just from a few comments on past posts the Witthaya complex may be worth keeping an eye on it may be one of the first candidates to be redeveloped, but of course only if it is profitable to the owners. Edited December 15, 2007 by pkrv Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dotcom Posted December 15, 2007 Share Posted December 15, 2007 Tai Ping Towers on Ekkamai is one of the oldest. Go look at them. HORRIBLE. I would not buy at any price. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dotcom Posted December 15, 2007 Share Posted December 15, 2007 $500 US a meter? You won't get much for that. I can't see paying over 80,000 THB & that is around 3 times my budget. Foreigners are driving the super luxury sector. People with more money than sense. Out here by me 28,000 a meter will buy you a nice condo (not new). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
backflip Posted December 16, 2007 Share Posted December 16, 2007 "My building is currently 17 years old, in a prime location, (next to The Sukhothai Residences), and 300% cheaper." Do you mean "one-third of the price"? That's completely different from "300% cheaper". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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