Why

[pointofview]

Why have the thais (powers that be) decided that they dont want ferangs - who invariabley contribute to the economy - living in thailand. Even ferangs married to thais with children are being attacked in every way. Why?

Why does a ferang need to have double the average middleclass thai income to be able to obtain a marraige visa?

Has anyone asked these questions and recieved a governmental response?

It can only be pure racism - why do the thai ruling classes fear the ferang.

Seems they have a drive to attract tourism from othere asian countrys - quality tourists. Is it because these countrys have equally corrupt systems and therefore 'hear no evil see no evil speak no evil' ?

[Jimjim]

Your questions have a lot of presuppositions behind them so I don't know how to answer. Whoever is in control has their reasons why their immigration laws are not friendly. Considering the income thing. Where do people have more money on average? West or East? Disregarding Japan, I'd say the West. So, the income requirement amounts for visas could be seen as more friendly to farang from the West than to other Asians like Chinese.

[Maigo6]

If one feels threatened by the financial requirements demanded for certain Visa's, and if one is a Farang who does not meet the said requirements in a Foreign country, one may well scream Racism.

If on the other hand you have the financial requirements, you won't think anything of the sort.

Racism is against a race of people, it don't matter if you are white and rich or white and poor, if there is a racist attitude you will feel it.

When I see a Mass Exodus of Farangs from Thailand because they feel they are under attack from Racist policies bought about by the Thai Government, then I may take note.

Guess what, I don't see any mass exodus, and these same rants have been going on for years.

If you lived in Japan you would feel the same, or any other country that is not your own, any problem you have, it's easy to just say " It's because I'm Black" or " It's because I'm a Farang ", when in fact the indiginous population has to put up with as much crap as you do, sometimes even more.

Edited September 4, 2007 by Maigo6

[jumnien]

If the visa laws are so unfriendly then why are there so many freaking farang living here? Do you really want mobs more of them invading the place? Don't you think it is in our interests as farangs that they be a little bit more discriminating?

[buffcoat]

Thailand has a set of rules for all foreign nationals not just farangs.

There is clearly a policy of ensuring that only those who have a certain economic standard/value to Thailand can obtain the right to stay.

In this they are not unusual by international standards...try flying from London to New York and telling the immigration people there you have decided to settle in the US and see what reaction you get.

The standard for those with a Thai wife is lower than for those without on retirement for example so the authorities do make an effort to ameliorate the requirements.

The bottom line is that if you are not a Thai national you do not have the right to live there,again the same is true across the globe.

Yes it is a major frustration for those there or wishing to go there but the Thai authorities have every right to set what ever immigration policy they wish.

All farang countries are currently grappling with the issue of immigration policy and have set various requirements suitable to their own national position.Immigration policy is based on the perceived national good and can be described as nationalistic but not rascist unless race actually becomes a part of the legal framework.

Tourism and the question of longstay are different issues and I fail to see how the visa rules for a one month stay are comparable to the question of multi-year residence.

[Suszzy]

It can only be pure racism - why do the thai ruling classes fear the ferang.

Racism..!!

no..don't be silly.

just the way thai government works..that all.

promise..

[geriatrickid]

Although I sympathize, I don't see any large number of foreigners relocating. Either they do not have the financial means to relocate or they aren't that unhappy. There are many other alternatives far more user friendly than Thailand such as Vietnam, Costa Rica, Panama and even cocky Malaysia. My friend came very close to moving to Thailand 2 years ago, I said have a peek at Costa Rica with its easy access to the USA and Europe. He did that and is delighted.

[Heng]

If you haven't been able to outsmart the Thai government (hello, not exactly rocket scientists they got working there) as other groups of foreigners have after all these years, you only have yourself to blame.

[hiromj]

I live in Japan on a spouse visa and I had to prove a very large bank account AND guarantees from my wife AND her parents to get my visa. It can be tough here as well so it's not just Thailand. Just like in the states, they don't wan't people coming in and living off government hand-outs.

Edited September 5, 2007 by hiromj

[Neeranam]

If you haven't been able to outsmart the Thai government (hello, not exactly rocket scientists they got working there) as other groups of foreigners have after all these years, you only have yourself to blame.

Exactly - it's been happening for years - any hurdles they put in the way are all easily surpassable.

[peter991]

Why have the thais (powers that be) decided that they dont want ferangs

- line 1, Post #1

It could be said that other countries are worse. Consider me - an Australian. I can turn up at Brisbane (Australia) International Airport and be on a plane to Thailand within a few hours. I get a 30 Day Visa on Arrival.

If a Thai national wants to do the same - come to Australia on a Tourist Visa - they have to jump through an amazing number of hoops - and will usually fail!

Does that mean Australia is racist?

Peter

[sutnyod]

Look at the process:

it started with unremarkable visa requirements

then came a period where retirees were highly welcome and visa requirements were made extremely easy

now we have a time when all these things are revoked.

...

@ OP: Are you sure you have asked the right questions????

[Scott]

There is a lot of pressure on gov'ts such as Thailand. With regard to immigration or long-stayers, there is public perception and problems posed by these people. Public perception often has to do with economics in the country and has a tendency to go back and forth.

Regarding visas there is the problem of terrorism and crime. Thailand has been caught up in a number of high-profile cases and the country doesn't do well when it's "reputation is tarnished."

All that said, yes, it does seem more difficult and cumbersome than it did before.

[newtothai]

If the visa laws are so unfriendly then why are there so many freaking farang living here? Do you really want mobs more of them invading the place? Don't you think it is in our interests as farangs that they be a little bit more discriminating?

I've just move here and think where are all the Falangs, if you walk around London, Singapore or Paris your find a real mix of all sorts, some poor, some rich, is'nt this a modern day society? i think a good balance of culture is the way to making a sucsse of any place which wants to rank as a fair society.

[BADBRAD]

I've just move here and think where are all the Falangs, if you walk around London, Singapore or Paris your find a real mix of all sorts, some poor, some rich, is'nt this a modern day society? i think a good balance of culture is the way to making a sucsse of any place which wants to rank as a fair society.

Where do you live? It must not be Bangkok!

[newtothai]

I've just move here and think where are all the Falangs, if you walk around London, Singapore or Paris your find a real mix of all sorts, some poor, some rich, is'nt this a modern day society? i think a good balance of culture is the way to making a sucsse of any place which wants to rank as a fair society.

Where do you live? It must not be Bangkok!

Yes it is in BKK. You must agree that there is no comparison to the west in the balance of culture?

[BADBRAD]

I'm not sure exactly what you mean by "balance of culture", but I do know that it seems like everywhere I go in Bangkok I am tripping over other farang.

[newtothai]

I'm not sure exactly what you mean by "balance of culture", but I do know that it seems like everywhere I go in Bangkok I am tripping over other farang.

Its just my opinion that the more mix a society gets the fairer it gets, as i said thats just my opinion.

[JR Texas]

I'm not sure exactly what you mean by "balance of culture", but I do know that it seems like everywhere I go in Bangkok I am tripping over other farang.

Its just my opinion that the more mix a society gets the fairer it gets, as i said thats just my opinion.

It is interesting that each time some person talks about xenophobia, racism, discrimination.......he is jumped on by the love Thailand or leave it crowd....or the visa changes are fine and easy to meet crowd.........or the all you need is money so what is the problem crowd.

The fact is that ethnocentrism (we-they distinction) is rising in Thailand along with xenophobia (unwarranted fear of outsiders....the they in the we-they) and discrimination (negative actions towards outsiders based on various ethnic or gender identifiers).

All humans are ethnocentric and a bit xenophobic.......that is human nature due to evolution. Charismatic figures often come into the picture to fuel the flames of ethnocentrism and xenophobia (e.g., Hitler, Reagan, Bad Bush and TOXIN).

When economies falter, ethnocentrism and xenophobia and discrimination tend to surface. The corporate-political-military triangle of power (the 1% of people that own virtually everything) often divert public attention away from "reality" in order to maintain the status quo (keep the corrupt game going). In other words, "they are the problem," not us. We are your friends! yea....right.......

I think this partially explains why ethnocentrism, xenophobia, and discrimination are rising in Thailand now. As things get worse in terms of the economy and other social factors--and there is no reason to assume that they will not get worse--we should see more of it. Visa rules will change in response to it, and the changes will not be good for any foreigners. Eventually I think that most of the grandfathered laws will be abrogated.

Another element coming into play is 9-11. After that we saw a massive shift in immigration policies worldwide.........the "securitization of immigation" surfaced. This was simply a convenient rationale to tighten visa rules.......but most of the visa rule changes we have witnesses in Thailand have had nothing to do with security.

If the real estate market officially crashes and economic pain widens, it is possible that the general public will finally wake up to the treatment of foreigners in Thailand, but not likely. It is too easy for the ruling elite to use the mainstream mass media as a tool to keep them in the dark.......to keep them playing the game.....a game that favors the top 1%.

I would strongly think twice about investing in Thailand or retiring here. But this "xenophobic mood" seems to be spreading worldwide. Where to go? At present there are still many countries that are welcoming foreigners along with their money: Cambodia, Malaysia, Vietnam, Philippines, Panama, Ecuador, to name a few. But they could change as well.......time will tell.

Ignoring or denying what is happening in Thailand will not make it go away.

With any luck, Al Gore will win the Nobel Peace Prize (to be announced in October I think) and will enter the presidential race in the USA. People do not like America now, but Gore is a good man and if he runs he will win (for the second time). After that, things will start to change for the better. Gore will not fuel the flames of racism, xenophobia, discrimination, ethnocentrism.........and his positive message will start to spread worldwide and may start to be reflected in immigration policies.

Good luck!

[BADBRAD]

I'm not sure exactly what you mean by "balance of culture", but I do know that it seems like everywhere I go in Bangkok I am tripping over other farang.

Its just my opinion that the more mix a society gets the fairer it gets, as i said thats just my opinion.

It is interesting that each time some person talks about xenophobia, racism, discrimination.......he is jumped on by the love Thailand or leave it crowd....or the visa changes are fine and easy to meet crowd.........or the all you need is money so what is the problem crowd.

.

Good luck!

Nice post JR, but what does it have to do with my post which you quoted? I certainly wasn't "jumping on" anyone.

[gburns57au]

911 apart.....

The reason most immigratiopn policies are tightened is because of the people who have abused the current policies

[crewcut]

Holiday makers and tourists are as welcome here as ever. The government has just recently put into operation various English Language Courses for people in all industries connected with tourism to re-promote Thailand's commitment to foreign visitors.

As to why long term visa rules have changed and qualification levels have rose for teachers, here is what I think. I started coming to Thailand in the early to middle 1990s and have lived full time here since 1996. I have lived and worked in various cities, towns and villages and have worked on and in various jobs. At the end of the 90s Thailand was the in place to be; 18 to 30 year olds were travelling here instead of Corfu or Benidorm and liked what they saw. They inevitably wanted to stay on and did what ever they could to do this, often falling into teaching or illegal activities. Places like Pattaya attracted amongst others various criminals washing their money and enjoying the ‘Thai way’ of life. Companies were being created left right and centre to manage these projects and people were staying on year after year on a tourist visa. It was these types of people who often lived here with no respect or knowledge of the Thai culture, which did nothing positive for the farang image. To help clean up and attract a different type of long stayer visa rules changed and other regulations were introduced. Inevitably there will be some people who were and still are a definite asset to Thailand that have been caught in the cross fire so to speak, but that’s life and this is Thailand! Whether the new visa rules are correct or fair is not what this post is about but understanding why they were changed is something that I can understand. My observations are not definitive and are offered as only part of the ever evolving visa rules and regulations of this country.

CC.

[JR Texas]

I'm not sure exactly what you mean by "balance of culture", but I do know that it seems like everywhere I go in Bangkok I am tripping over other farang.

Its just my opinion that the more mix a society gets the fairer it gets, as i said thats just my opinion.

It is interesting that each time some person talks about xenophobia, racism, discrimination.......he is jumped on by the love Thailand or leave it crowd....or the visa changes are fine and easy to meet crowd.........or the all you need is money so what is the problem crowd.

.

Good luck!

Nice post JR, but what does it have to do with my post which you quoted? I certainly wasn't "jumping on" anyone.

Sorry........my post was not directed at you. I just went to the last post on this thread and started commenting.......sometimes I do stupid things. Way too often these days. Need to take a vacation.

[BADBRAD]

No problem JR. Thanks for the clarification. Don't feel bad, I've seen a lot stupider things on this forum.

[rken]

I'm not sure exactly what you mean by "balance of culture", but I do know that it seems like everywhere I go in Bangkok I am tripping over other farang.

Its just my opinion that the more mix a society gets the fairer it gets, as i said thats just my opinion.

It is interesting that each time some person talks about xenophobia, racism, discrimination.......he is jumped on by the love Thailand or leave it crowd....or the visa changes are fine and easy to meet crowd.........or the all you need is money so what is the problem crowd.

The fact is that ethnocentrism (we-they distinction) is rising in Thailand along with xenophobia (unwarranted fear of outsiders....the they in the we-they) and discrimination (negative actions towards outsiders based on various ethnic or gender identifiers).

All humans are ethnocentric and a bit xenophobic.......that is human nature due to evolution. Charismatic figures often come into the picture to fuel the flames of ethnocentrism and xenophobia (e.g., Hitler, Reagan, Bad Bush and TOXIN).

When economies falter, ethnocentrism and xenophobia and discrimination tend to surface. The corporate-political-military triangle of power (the 1% of people that own virtually everything) often divert public attention away from "reality" in order to maintain the status quo (keep the corrupt game going). In other words, "they are the problem," not us. We are your friends! yea....right.......

I think this partially explains why ethnocentrism, xenophobia, and discrimination are rising in Thailand now. As things get worse in terms of the economy and other social factors--and there is no reason to assume that they will not get worse--we should see more of it. Visa rules will change in response to it, and the changes will not be good for any foreigners. Eventually I think that most of the grandfathered laws will be abrogated.

Another element coming into play is 9-11. After that we saw a massive shift in immigration policies worldwide.........the "securitization of immigation" surfaced. This was simply a convenient rationale to tighten visa rules.......but most of the visa rule changes we have witnesses in Thailand have had nothing to do with security.

If the real estate market officially crashes and economic pain widens, it is possible that the general public will finally wake up to the treatment of foreigners in Thailand, but not likely. It is too easy for the ruling elite to use the mainstream mass media as a tool to keep them in the dark.......to keep them playing the game.....a game that favors the top 1%.

I would strongly think twice about investing in Thailand or retiring here. But this "xenophobic mood" seems to be spreading worldwide. Where to go? At present there are still many countries that are welcoming foreigners along with their money: Cambodia, Malaysia, Vietnam, Philippines, Panama, Ecuador, to name a few. But they could change as well.......time will tell.

Ignoring or denying what is happening in Thailand will not make it go away.

With any luck, Al Gore will win the Nobel Peace Prize (to be announced in October I think) and will enter the presidential race in the USA. People do not like America now, but Gore is a good man and if he runs he will win (for the second time). After that, things will start to change for the better. Gore will not fuel the flames of racism, xenophobia, discrimination, ethnocentrism.........and his positive message will start to spread worldwide and may start to be reflected in immigration policies.

Good luck!

You must be joking! Thats the best one I've heard in a long time.

[Texpat]

I wish my country (USA) kept as tight a reign on foreigners in America as Thai Immy keeps on us.

But do they have to be such daft <deleted> while doing it?