Koh Samui Voted 14th Down From 6th Last Year

[Mid]

flesh it out with common space , social cost , environmental cost etc ....................

[keepsamuiclean]

"As per contribution to the police.

BKAhas been affiliated in many projects contributing to the local comunity. they are flying kids for school excursions for free and are promoting many island events.. and yes they contributed to the police buiding. whats wrong with that?? you think Dr prasert needs favours from the local police???"

Remember one island event - the Samui Carnival which should become the second Rio!

When I am in business (and I am) I have to care for my customers and not for unneccesary sponsorships with money my customers paid. And when this money got wasted I have to increase my rates??

And when people who criticize this policy can take the ferry - why cannot kids go on excursions by ferry?

[highdiver]

Highdiver, would you like to detail for us all the places in the world where one airlines has a monopoly on all flights in and out of that destination and tell us you approve of that?

I would not know where to start. there are over 3000 private airports registerd only in the USA through the FAA.

In Europe there are many locations served onlt by small airlines companies using private built airports.

private airports are just the way they are called they are private!!! if you did not understand it is a private property.

if you obide by aviation regulations you can open an airport..

once you own an airport you can detrmine who can land and who can not as it is private property.

I am very sure that if you can buy enough land on samui to meet the requirements of building an airport they will give you a permit. and if you have enought mony to allso own an airline company then you have a realy good business.

[highdiver]

"As per contribution to the police.

BKAhas been affiliated in many projects contributing to the local comunity. they are flying kids for school excursions for free and are promoting many island events.. and yes they contributed to the police buiding. whats wrong with that?? you think Dr prasert needs favours from the local police???"

Remember one island event - the Samui Carnival which should become the second Rio!

When I am in business (and I am) I have to care for my customers and not for unneccesary sponsorships with money my customers paid. And when this money got wasted I have to increase my rates??

And when people who criticize this policy can take the ferry - why cannot kids go on excursions by ferry?

I totlay disagree with you.

the money you earn from your customers is yours... you earned it and you can spend save it or use some of it to give back to the comunity.

bangkok airways are maintaing a profit for many years as apposed to many airlines.. incase you did not get it they are a buisness and the aim is to make profit!!!

many comapnies around he world are using profits to promote social and local events.

many business man contribute from the private proffits to donations. a good exaple is bill gates and warren buffet who are contributing billions to education as well as othe benefits.

on one hand you post positngs to help Samui get proper planing and better future but when it comes to giving your own money you come up with the excuse of "this money got wasted I have to increase my rates"

BKA have done for this island a lot and invested a lot money in doing not just posting in Thai visa or meeting in the Lions Club.

[chinthee]

Highdiver, would you like to detail for us all the places in the world where one airlines has a monopoly on all flights in and out of that destination and tell us you approve of that?

I would not know where to start. there are over 3000 private airports registerd only in the USA through the FAA.

In Europe there are many locations served onlt by small airlines companies using private built airports.

private airports are just the way they are called they are private!!! if you did not understand it is a private property.

if you obide by aviation regulations you can open an airport..

once you own an airport you can detrmine who can land and who can not as it is private property.

I am very sure that if you can buy enough land on samui to meet the requirements of building an airport they will give you a permit. and if you have enought mony to allso own an airline company then you have a realy good business.

And...you approve of this as the most efficient way to allocate resources and maximize the potential of Samui?

[keepsamuiclean]

Clearly - YOU did not get it!

[chinthee]

Oh! I see you want to keep the island for yourselves! Sorry no dice. If you want it you buy it.

[keepsamuiclean]

"Clearly - YOU did not get it!" was meant for highdiver who did not answer the question about the kids excursions and got the rate increase question also wrong.

[chinthee]

"Clearly - YOU did not get it!" was meant for highdiver who did not answer the question about the kids excursions and got the rate increase question also wrong.

Ka tote na krup

[Solosiam]

I totlay disagree with you.

the money you earn from your customers is yours... you earned it and you can spend save it or use some of it to give back to the comunity.

bangkok airways are maintaing a profit for many years as apposed to many airlines.. incase you did not get it they are a buisness and the aim is to make profit!!!

many comapnies around he world are using profits to promote social and local events.

many business man contribute from the private proffits to donations. a good exaple is bill gates and warren buffet who are contributing billions to education as well as othe benefits.

on one hand you post positngs to help Samui get proper planing and better future but when it comes to giving your own money you come up with the excuse of "this money got wasted I have to increase my rates"

BKA have done for this island a lot and invested a lot money in doing not just posting in Thai visa or meeting in the Lions Club.

Bit of a difference between trying to cure AIDS, or building an orphanage than re-decorating the local police station.

[highdiver]

I totlay disagree with you.

the money you earn from your customers is yours... you earned it and you can spend save it or use some of it to give back to the comunity.

bangkok airways are maintaing a profit for many years as apposed to many airlines.. incase you did not get it they are a buisness and the aim is to make profit!!!

many comapnies around he world are using profits to promote social and local events.

many business man contribute from the private proffits to donations. a good exaple is bill gates and warren buffet who are contributing billions to education as well as othe benefits.

on one hand you post positngs to help Samui get proper planing and better future but when it comes to giving your own money you come up with the excuse of "this money got wasted I have to increase my rates"

BKA have done for this island a lot and invested a lot money in doing not just posting in Thai visa or meeting in the Lions Club.

Bit of a difference between trying to cure AIDS, or building an orphanage than ccthe local police station.

Clearly there is a differnce.. however bangkok ariways has contributed to medical facilities, education, road construction, every majour tourist promoting event in Samui, the regatta, the Samui carnaval, donates regulalry to schools, donated regularly to welfare programs. and one of the many many contributions was for "re-decorating" the police station.

Bangkok airways owner is a very succesfull business man that see his company obligations to contribute.

i find it ridiculous that members see the need to critisize his genrousity.

[highdiver]

"Clearly - YOU did not get it!" was meant for highdiver who did not answer the question about the kids excursions and got the rate increase question also wrong.

what did i not get???

Remember one island event - the Samui Carnival which should become the second Rio!

When I am in business (and I am) I have to care for my customers and not for unneccesary sponsorships with money my customers paid. And when this money got wasted I have to increase my rates??

And when people who criticize this policy can take the ferry - why cannot kids go on excursions by ferry?

to which i replied :

the money you earn from your customers is yours... you earned it and you can spend save it or use some of it to give back to the comunity.

bangkok airways are maintaing a profit for many years as apposed to many airlines.. incase you did not get it they are a buisness and the aim is to make profit!!!

many comapnies around he world are using profits to promote social and local events.

many business man contribute from the private proffits to donations. a good exaple is bill gates and warren buffet who are contributing billions to education as well as othe benefits.

and just so its clear i will address you again.

on one hand you post positngs to help Samui get proper planing and better future but when it comes to giving your own money you come up with the excuse of "this money got wasted I have to increase my rates"

BKA have done for this island a lot and invested a lot money in doing not just posting in Thai visa or meeting in the Lions Club.

it will be very reasonable to assume that bangkok air ways is the largest contributer and donator on the island.

As you are a business man.. please share with us how much have you personally contributed in money from your profits...

or is contribution limited to...... giving advice??

[highdiver]

Highdiver, would you like to detail for us all the places in the world where one airlines has a monopoly on all flights in and out of that destination and tell us you approve of that?

I would not know where to start. there are over 3000 private airports registerd only in the USA through the FAA.

In Europe there are many locations served onlt by small airlines companies using private built airports.

private airports are just the way they are called they are private!!! if you did not understand it is a private property.

if you obide by aviation regulations you can open an airport..

once you own an airport you can detrmine who can land and who can not as it is private property.

I am very sure that if you can buy enough land on samui to meet the requirements of building an airport they will give you a permit. and if you have enought mony to allso own an airline company then you have a realy good business.

And...you approve of this as the most efficient way to allocate resources and maximize the potential of Samui?

I totaly agree with you... however this was not the issue debated.

BKA began operations to Samui many many years ago when there were no hotles no development and no mass tourists.

they took a big investment in building an airport and once opened promoted Samui as a destination.

I belive you will agree that they have the right to profit from this investment. infact they have the right to profit a lot...and if you dont like it use the ferry..

As for "efficient way to allocate resources and maximize the potential of Samui" I agree with you but....

no one is doing anything.... the only one who is actually doing is bangkok airways.

have you ever noticed that those who dont do business and dont ever risk are the ones sitting on the side lines givving smart ass advice

[Prakanong]

enuff said there then.

same market segment who voted Samui #6 the year prior ...................

carry on .

And thus the "Positioning" of Samui the "Brand" has slipped in the mind of this segment which is the "Target" of TAT being the high quality high spending tourist TAT has stated they want therefore TAT needs to re-evaluate its marketing strategy does it not.

[keepsamuiclean]

Highdiver, could you please get me on the list for sponsorship by BKA as the neighboring construction of 2 years is ruining my business with permanent noise. Nevertheless I have to pay income tax and other taxes and I take care for the environment and do not plaster nature with concrete.

What you did not get is that nobody should increase fares or rates to finance curious sponsorships like flying kids for free when they can use the ferry for a meager amount or furniture for police stations.

And did you know that you even do not get a breakfast on BKA when you change your full fare flight to an earlier one or when you book directly at the BKK airport for the next flight? Might be that BKA is more committed to Samui than to their customers....

[Mid]

enuff said there then.

same market segment who voted Samui #6 the year prior ...................

carry on .

And thus the "Positioning" of Samui the "Brand" has slipped in the mind of this segment which is the "Target" of TAT being the high quality high spending tourist TAT has stated they want therefore TAT needs to re-evaluate its marketing strategy does it not.

thanxs for the clarification , agreed

[Gatorade]

Highdiver, would you like to detail for us all the places in the world where one airlines has a monopoly on all flights in and out of that destination and tell us you approve of that?

I would not know where to start. there are over 3000 private airports registerd only in the USA through the FAA.

In Europe there are many locations served onlt by small airlines companies using private built airports.

private airports are just the way they are called they are private!!! if you did not understand it is a private property.

if you obide by aviation regulations you can open an airport..

once you own an airport you can detrmine who can land and who can not as it is private property.

I am very sure that if you can buy enough land on samui to meet the requirements of building an airport they will give you a permit. and if you have enought mony to allso own an airline company then you have a realy good business.

And...you approve of this as the most efficient way to allocate resources and maximize the potential of Samui?

I totaly agree with you... however this was not the issue debated.

BKA began operations to Samui many many years ago when there were no hotles no development and no mass tourists.

they took a big investment in building an airport and once opened promoted Samui as a destination.

I belive you will agree that they have the right to profit from this investment. infact they have the right to profit a lot...and if you dont like it use the ferry..

As for "efficient way to allocate resources and maximize the potential of Samui" I agree with you but....

no one is doing anything.... the only one who is actually doing is bangkok airways.

have you ever noticed that those who dont do business and dont ever risk are the ones sitting on the side lines givving smart ass advice

Highdiver you are right. In fact, the general direction of these threads points in the direction that there are a lot of people here in Samui who LIKE Bangkok Airways and what they have done.

Until now this forum seems to have been used by a vocal minority who for one reason or another hate/dislike BKK Airways.

Anyone daring to actually like them is accused of either working or connected in some way with the Airline i.e "Samuian" thinks that I may a P/R person for them. (I am not).

The fares compare favourably with similar operations in Europe and if you hold a residents card then the prices are fairly reasonable. As stated previously there are other choices if you don't want to travel from Samui Private Airport.

Might be an idea to start a "Why I like Bangkok Airways thread". That should get a few pulses going!

[Prakanong]

enuff said there then.

same market segment who voted Samui #6 the year prior ...................

carry on .

And thus the "Positioning" of Samui the "Brand" has slipped in the mind of this segment which is the "Target" of TAT being the high quality high spending tourist TAT has stated they want therefore TAT needs to re-evaluate its marketing strategy does it not.

thanxs for the clarification , agreed

Can you tell I took my Marketing MBA exam this week and one of the questions I answered was on STP - Segmenting, Targeting and Positioning?

Don't worry it will be gone out of the short term memory soon - Finance next

[chinthee]

Highdiver, would you like to detail for us all the places in the world where one airlines has a monopoly on all flights in and out of that destination and tell us you approve of that?

I would not know where to start. there are over 3000 private airports registerd only in the USA through the FAA.

In Europe there are many locations served onlt by small airlines companies using private built airports.

private airports are just the way they are called they are private!!! if you did not understand it is a private property.

if you obide by aviation regulations you can open an airport..

once you own an airport you can detrmine who can land and who can not as it is private property.

I am very sure that if you can buy enough land on samui to meet the requirements of building an airport they will give you a permit. and if you have enought mony to allso own an airline company then you have a realy good business.

And...you approve of this as the most efficient way to allocate resources and maximize the potential of Samui?

I totaly agree with you... however this was not the issue debated.

BKA began operations to Samui many many years ago when there were no hotles no development and no mass tourists.

they took a big investment in building an airport and once opened promoted Samui as a destination.

I belive you will agree that they have the right to profit from this investment. infact they have the right to profit a lot...and if you dont like it use the ferry..

As for "efficient way to allocate resources and maximize the potential of Samui" I agree with you but....

no one is doing anything.... the only one who is actually doing is bangkok airways.

have you ever noticed that those who dont do business and dont ever risk are the ones sitting on the side lines givving smart ass advice

I wasn't aware of the history you detailed. As a businessman myself, I am very much in favor of risk takers being rewarded. Yes, I can see your points. Moreover, Samui would probably become an even bigger mess as far as infrastructure challenges, etc., if other airlines were allowed in.

[highdiver]

enuff said there then.

same market segment who voted Samui #6 the year prior ...................

carry on .

And thus the "Positioning" of Samui the "Brand" has slipped in the mind of this segment which is the "Target" of TAT being the high quality high spending tourist TAT has stated they want therefore TAT needs to re-evaluate its marketing strategy does it not.

thanxs for the clarification , agreed

Can you tell I took my Marketing MBA exam this week and one of the questions I answered was on STP - Segmenting, Targeting and Positioning?

Don't worry it will be gone out of the short term memory soon - Finance next

that explains many of your posittions on other posts as well. you are not realy wrong ...just young...

in time you will learn that there is a huge difference between learning business and actually doing it.

[Charma]

My two cents:

• BKK Airways run a decent service
  
• They ARE a monopoly
  
• They HAVE ramped up prices far beyond all others in the region (including their own) and higher than similar flights in EU
  
• A second airport for Samui would be ridiculous
  
• Flight costs will deter a proportion of tourists from coming to Samui
  
• I don't give a d*mn about whether they paint the local police station
  
• If they were that concerned about the island, they would spend their efforts in influencing the major problems in infrastructure that threaten to drop Samui out of the top 100 islands in time
  

In business, generally monopolies are good for the company and bad for the consumer. For those that are defending it, I wonder at what point the prices would rise to get even them p*****d off with it.

[Prakanong]

enuff said there then.

same market segment who voted Samui #6 the year prior ...................

carry on .

And thus the "Positioning" of Samui the "Brand" has slipped in the mind of this segment which is the "Target" of TAT being the high quality high spending tourist TAT has stated they want therefore TAT needs to re-evaluate its marketing strategy does it not.

thanxs for the clarification , agreed

Can you tell I took my Marketing MBA exam this week and one of the questions I answered was on STP - Segmenting, Targeting and Positioning?

Don't worry it will be gone out of the short term memory soon - Finance next

that explains many of your posittions on other posts as well. you are not realy wrong ...just young...

in time you will learn that there is a huge difference between learning business and actually doing it.

Young - ha bloody ha

I have been in the business world long enough thank you

The MBA is just for myself really - at the position I am in its not going to make a difference for promotion now and if I move it will be just another box ticked off but experience and doing the job will count for more.

I am probably the oldest on the course - Singaporeans all think they need one as do Indian professionals.

Anyway totally off subject but due to work and study this is one year I will not be getting to Samui - about the 3rd time I have missed since 95.

Jusy over 2000THB to fly one way back to BKK in 95 - about 50 quid.

Edited September 7, 2007 by Prakanong

[Mark Wolfe]

Gatorade wrote:

The fares compare favourably with similar operations in Europe.

Uh, so?

We're not in Europe.

This comparison is worthless.

[womble]

My two cents:

• BKK Airways run a decent service
  
• They ARE a monopoly
  
• They HAVE ramped up prices far beyond all others in the region (including their own) and higher than similar flights in EU
  
• A second airport for Samui would be ridiculous
  
• Flight costs will deter a proportion of tourists from coming to Samui
  
• I don't give a d*mn about whether they paint the local police station
  
• If they were that concerned about the island, they would spend their efforts in influencing the major problems in infrastructure that threaten to drop Samui out of the top 100 islands in time
  

In business, generally monopolies are good for the company and bad for the consumer. For those that are defending it, I wonder at what point the prices would rise to get even them p*****d off with it.

Agree with everything you say there.

They do run a very good service. If they really want to help the island with their charity and/or influence they should try to do something about infrastructure, they are afterall the ones most responsible for the growth, and how they and their supporters love to tell us that.

I should imagine they will continue to raise prices until they reach a point where it effects their ability to fill the planes.

Initially they were fantastic for the growth of the island, unfortunatley whilst they do provide a great service they are now detrimental to the islands growth. We are now in a different stage of developement to when the airport was built.

This is the stage where they can exploit. That is what business and monopolies are about. You can't blame them, any good businessman would do the same if it was their company, you have a duty to your shareholders.

This is where there should be regulatory organisations to protect consumers. Perhaps airline monopolies should only be allowed for a set number of years (so they can still profit but not beyond reason) after the building of an airports, after that they have to allow others to use the facilities for an acceptable fee.

The main point here is there is nothing wrong with them making profit but there has to be a limit to how much.

Charma has a good point.......

How high do the fares need to be before supporters of the current pricing start to say to themselves.........you know what, maybe they are too high.

[tjo o tjim]

As much as rates are insane, BKK Air owns the airport and has a right to capitalize on it.

Likewise, the government should have the option for assessing the greater good, and determining if the resource would better serve the community if it was made public. Trusting the government to do this fairly is generally a losing battle, no matter where you are.

Wonder what it would take to build a floating airport... or retrofit a 737 to do water landings...

USM's runway is too short to land bigger jets, the airport is already at maximum takeoff and landings per regulations (and sanity). Basically, the are within 30% of the maximum passenger arrivals that the airport can support, which justifies the fare hike. The only logical approach is to promote Surat Thanni and Chumphon airports with well-coordinated transfers and ferry schedules.

[Charma]

This is where there should be regulatory organisations to protect consumers. Perhaps airline monopolies should only be allowed for a set number of years (so they can still profit but not beyond reason) after the building of an airports, after that they have to allow others to use the facilities for an acceptable fee.

The main point here is there is nothing wrong with them making profit but there has to be a limit to how much.

There are some commodities where the normal rules of supply and demand do not apply and where a regulatory body makes sense. other examples exist in power, gas infrastructure, where it is clearly not a good idea to allow every company to build its own infrastructure.

Another analogy would be something like a private bridge construction. Where a private company puts the money in to build it, it is given a generous period of time to reap the commercial rewards under a agreed pricing structure. Like airports, you do not want any old company to come along and build more just to have some competition. Same for railways, toll roads etc.

Where these monopolies exist, you must regulate them to ensure that the consumer is not being exploited. It is about getting a fair deal for both company and consumers. I do not think that this is currently the case with Samui airport.

In fact, because BKK Airways are charging much lower prices to other Thailand destinations, it could be argued that Samui residents and tourist are subsidising the lower cost fares of those in the likes of Phuket.

[chinthee]

^ that subsidy argument is a good one Charma. I live in both Phuket and Bangkok. I buy these platinum cards from one2go for 20k. Each round trip costs me 3500. I and my wife do lots of round trips.

Living in Samui the economics of my lifestyle would be drastically changed.

[Gatorade]

Gatorade wrote:

The fares compare favourably with similar operations in Europe.

Uh, so?

We're not in Europe.

This comparison is worthless.

BKK

Why? I am going from LHR to Brussels next month and the fare on British Midland is much more expensive than BKK Air -Samui to Bangkok.

The distance to BRU is shorter and the service non-existent.

Therefore a comparison is perfectly valid as I am paying for the air fares.

[Charma]

Gatorade wrote:

The fares compare favourably with similar operations in Europe.

Uh, so?

We're not in Europe.

This comparison is worthless.

BKK

Why? I am going from LHR to Brussels next month and the fare on British Midland is much more expensive than BKK Air -Samui to Bangkok.

The distance to BRU is shorter and the service non-existent.

Therefore a comparison is perfectly valid as I am paying for the air fares.

Not sure where you are getting your prices from, but you are not getting a good deal! Even the standard BA fare is only £78.00. In any case, perhaps it is better to compare an EU "holiday" destination with Samui.

If I booked today for a few weeks time, these are the prices I can get:

London to Malaga with Easyjet - £57.00 inc taxes

London to malaga with BA - £56.00 inc taxes

Bangkok to Samui with BKK Airways - £120 (7,800 baht) inc taxes

Now Malaga is twice as far and the European airlines will be paying European wages for all staff, inc airport workers.

Now work out where the profit is being made.

[highdiver]

Gatorade wrote:

The fares compare favourably with similar operations in Europe.

Uh, so?

We're not in Europe.

This comparison is worthless.

BKK

Why? I am going from LHR to Brussels next month and the fare on British Midland is much more expensive than BKK Air -Samui to Bangkok.

The distance to BRU is shorter and the service non-existent.

Therefore a comparison is perfectly valid as I am paying for the air fares.

Not sure where you are getting your prices from, but you are not getting a good deal! Even the standard BA fare is only £78.00. In any case, perhaps it is better to compare an EU "holiday" destination with Samui.

If I booked today for a few weeks time, these are the prices I can get:

London to Malaga with Easyjet - £57.00 inc taxes

London to malaga with BA - £56.00 inc taxes

Bangkok to Samui with BKK Airways - £120 (7,800 baht) inc taxes

Now Malaga is twice as far and the European airlines will be paying European wages for all staff, inc airport workers.

Now work out where the profit is being made.

you are comparing apples with oranges.

1.if you want to compare easy jet then comare it with air aisa or any other budget airline.

i made the mistake of flying easy jet once.... the plane was dirty there was no service and there was no food or drinks anything you wanted was at extra price and the terminal looked like something from world war 2.

BKA is a botique airline and it says so in every publication they put out. so you cant compare them with a budget airline.

2. those "cheap airlines" you are referring to dont have the same costs as bangkok airways as they dont own and opperate a private airports. yes bangkok airway has a few private airports well maintained and well serviced and if you fly with them you need to pay.BKA is a botique airline. and you pay accordingly.

Bangkok airport is not a Monopoly as if you wish you can buy land on the other side of Samui and apply for a new airport.

3. they can take waht ever price they feel like its a private businness with only profits in mind.. they dont anyone any explenations if you dont like it take the ferry or build a new aiport and land there with your own plane.