Us Embassy Confiscated My Passport

[wpcoe]

Someone correct me if I am wrong, but I think those folks who have had them returned were getting renewals of an expiring passport rather than replacements for a passport that hadn't expired.

I also had a damaged passport replaced with a new one -- at the Embassy in Bangkok -- and the old one was returned to me.

I was annoyed because the new one has "This passport is a replacement for a mutilated passport" typed on the inside back cover. I'm annoyed because to me, "mutilated" makes it sound like I intentionally inflicted damage on my passport. In fact, it was damaged in that the lamination on the front cover was de-laminating and I was getting lectures at immigration podiums.

Now, only four years into this new passport, the back page is tearing near the spine, and coming loose from the fabric cover. <sigh....>

[pointofview]

My passport had been pretty beaten up for the 6 or so years I had it. It was actually torn and coming apart and I've been hassled quite a bit going into and out of various countries...Thaland included. So I decided to go get a new one awhile before it expired.

Went through the usual crap and they told me to come back in two weeks. I did so and when I came in they had the Vice Consul come and tell me he is not giving me my old passport back at the request of the State Department. He told me he wont tell me any more information than that and getting a lawyer wont help. Passport doesn't belong to me, it is State Department property.

I filled that passport so full of stamps I had to get a new set of pages added. Just flipping through it and thinking of all of the memories gives me goosebumps. And now they tell me I'll never see it again. Not to mention my Thai Visa which they have now confiscated as well.

So my question for you is, why is America such a piece of shit? Oh wait, sorry. Wrong question. Why would they do this? He was implying that I may be in some type of trouble or something, but he wouldn't say anything. What reason would they have to keep my old passport and not return it to me...yet allow me to have a brand new passport and leave the embassy without questioning me etc.

FWIW I've been all over and travelling pretty much full-time for the last two years. I'm a young guy with no job on record and probably dont look to them like somebody who should be able to do this. Customs in the US always gives me a nice long question and answer period when I come into the country. I'm white, but I get the feeling they view me as some kind of terrorist or something. Just a thought on the possible reason here. I'm not a terrorist but I live a pretty good life but present myself in a pretty scruffy '###### you' manner with a beard, never wear nice clothes etc. Just giving you guys some background to work with to help me solve this one.

Should I be worried? Should I get a lawyer to look into this? What is their problem? Anybody ever heard of this happening?

I would guess because you have traveled extensivley they find that a little unusual, so the usefull idiots want to keep your passport just as a reference for future use. if they want to fit you up in the future then they can use your travel movements to build a false flag senario with you as the pattsie. All terrorists have beards - as you know - so it will be easy to sell the story to your fellow dumbed down countrymen.

PS do you live in a cave

[MELATONIN]

My passport had been pretty beaten up for the 6 or so years I had it. It was actually torn and coming apart and I've been hassled quite a bit going into and out of various countries...Thaland included. So I decided to go get a new one awhile before it expired.

Went through the usual crap and they told me to come back in two weeks. I did so and when I came in they had the Vice Consul come and tell me he is not giving me my old passport back at the request of the State Department. He told me he wont tell me any more information than that and getting a lawyer wont help. Passport doesn't belong to me, it is State Department property.

I filled that passport so full of stamps I had to get a new set of pages added. Just flipping through it and thinking of all of the memories gives me goosebumps. And now they tell me I'll never see it again. Not to mention my Thai Visa which they have now confiscated as well.

So my question for you is, why is America such a piece of shit? Oh wait, sorry. Wrong question. Why would they do this? He was implying that I may be in some type of trouble or something, but he wouldn't say anything. What reason would they have to keep my old passport and not return it to me...yet allow me to have a brand new passport and leave the embassy without questioning me etc.

FWIW I've been all over and travelling pretty much full-time for the last two years. I'm a young guy with no job on record and probably dont look to them like somebody who should be able to do this. Customs in the US always gives me a nice long question and answer period when I come into the country. I'm white, but I get the feeling they view me as some kind of terrorist or something. Just a thought on the possible reason here. I'm not a terrorist but I live a pretty good life but present myself in a pretty scruffy '###### you' manner with a beard, never wear nice clothes etc. Just giving you guys some background to work with to help me solve this one.

Should I be worried? Should I get a lawyer to look into this? What is their problem? Anybody ever heard of this happening?

It's so simple, you've overlooked the answer. They lost your old passport. They don't want to admit to incompetence so they telling you you're not getting it back. Duh.

[Carmine6]

Someone correct me if I am wrong, but I think those folks who have had them returned were getting renewals of an expiring passport rather than replacements for a passport that hadn't expired.

You are absolutely, 100 percent WRONG. Consider yourself corrected. Has nothing to do with it. Old passport are returned with punched holes, voided, but it doesn't matter if the old passport was still valid or not. And yes I did this recently myself.

Ok, old passports no, but the State Department website says damaged and mutilated passports are not returned. So if they are returning ones submitted as damaged or mutilated, it's at the discretion of the employee.

The website only mentions it in reference to changing information, but I was told in person at the Los Angeles passport office that they do not return damaged or mutilated passports by policy. Maybe she was making that up, but it does seem that once it is coded as damaged or mutilated, the policy is to keep it.

http://travel.state.gov/passport/get/corre...cting_2654.html

12. Will my old passport be returned if I apply for a replacement?

Yes. Except for passports submitted due to printing errors, your old passport will be invalidated and returned with your new, replacement passport if it is not damaged or mutilated.

http://travel.state.gov/passport/get/fee/fee_2654.html

10. Will my old passport be returned if I apply for a replacement?

Yes. Your old passport will be invalidated and returned with your new, replacement passport if it is not damaged or mutilated.

[retirednavyman]

I fully agree something does not seem right. I swear on everthing that is sacred that is exactly what happened. They did provide me with a certified letter stating that the immigration department should honor the visa in my old passport as I have a new one. But they kept the old one! They made certified copies of the visa pages and gave them to me. I assume the immigration people are going to have a field day scratching their heads over this one...can't imagine this has happened to too many people.

I just had one more entry left on a 3 entry 60 day non-imm visa, so no worries as long as I can get out of thailand ok. They did give me my departure card and a certified copy of the stamp i got when i recently came back into the country.

I'm not too worried about the visa. I just want my passport for the memories. I know technically they own it...but i've never heard of them keeping it.

I also want to know who requested they keep it. He said 'i am not giving this passport back to you'. I asked why. "We have been requested to keep it and send it into the state department'. I asked who requested you to do that. 'i cannot tell you that'.

Is this like some kind of FBI or Homeland Security BS? Am I just being paranoid here? I'm a bit worried but aside from my non-traditional lifestyle which might raise some eyebrows (but not having anything illegal about it) there is nothing about me that should make them want to investigate me...

Have you tried going to the State Department website itself for answers? You might get some answers there shipmate!

[Jingthing]

Have you tried going to the State Department website itself for answers? You might get some answers there shipmate!

Why would some generic website tell him what a real live officer wouldn't? If it was because of mutilation, why not just say so, nothing wrong with that being the policy and stating it if asked.

Edited September 5, 2007 by Jingthing

[IMA_FARANG]

My passport had been pretty beaten up for the 6 or so years I had it. It was actually torn and coming apart and I've been hassled quite a bit going into and out of various countries...Thaland included. So I decided to go get a new one awhile before it expired.

Went through the usual crap and they told me to come back in two weeks. I did so and when I came in they had the Vice Consul come and tell me he is not giving me my old passport back at the request of the State Department. He told me he wont tell me any more information than that and getting a lawyer wont help. Passport doesn't belong to me, it is State Department property.

I filled that passport so full of stamps I had to get a new set of pages added. Just flipping through it and thinking of all of the memories gives me goosebumps. And now they tell me I'll never see it again. Not to mention my Thai Visa which they have now confiscated as well.

So my question for you is, why is America such a piece of shit? Oh wait, sorry. Wrong question. Why would they do this? He was implying that I may be in some type of trouble or something, but he wouldn't say anything. What reason would they have to keep my old passport and not return it to me...yet allow me to have a brand new passport and leave the embassy without questioning me etc.

FWIW I've been all over and travelling pretty much full-time for the last two years. I'm a young guy with no job on record and probably dont look to them like somebody who should be able to do this. Customs in the US always gives me a nice long question and answer period when I come into the country. I'm white, but I get the feeling they view me as some kind of terrorist or something. Just a thought on the possible reason here. I'm not a terrorist but I live a pretty good life but present myself in a pretty scruffy '###### you' manner with a beard, never wear nice clothes etc. Just giving you guys some background to work with to help me solve this one.

Should I be worried? Should I get a lawyer to look into this? What is their problem? Anybody ever heard of this happening?

1. Did you travel to North Korea, Cuba, Iran on this passport?

2. Did you have any contraband items (i.e. items with false trademarks) conficated entering the U.S.?

3. Do you have outstanding child support payments (filed against you by a court decree)?

4. Are you on a suspected child pornograpy list in the U.S.?

5 Were you arrested in Thailand with this passport?

6. A passport that is suspected of being diliberately damaged may give them the idea that the damage was done to obliterate, or cover up a false visa.

7. The other possibility is that somehow you got on the TIDES (terrorist identification data) list.

[mangkorn]

Whatever the reason - and there may well be dark and sinister forces at play - it is just astonishingly stupid to treat your passport like a barroom napkin stuffed into your back pocket. Buy one of those cheap covers that protect it, and regard it with the importance it deserves - not because of the US government, but because it is your &lt;deleted&gt;' ticket to ride; without it, you are nothing, regardless of your country of citizenship.

In every country in the world, government officials will regard you with extreme suspicion if you have a passport in such a condition, because they are real sticklers for authority of every kind, and you have obviously demonstrated without any doubt that you are not. When you come slouching into their country, they will regard you as disrepectful, and perhaps an undesirable scumbag, and rightfully so. That may or may not be true. But it is just good common sense to take care of what is the most important possession that you have - for the lifestyle you prefer to lead.

You're just lucky that you didn't get detained by some dodgy border guards at some remote crossing.

Jeez, get some self-respect, man.

Send 'em to school, buy 'em books, an' yet they still don't learn nuthin'...

this is a good and true post. i do have a profound disprespect for authority (and my passport, citizenship, country) and could probably use an extra dose of respect for myself. thanks for the constructive criticism, your words did not fall on deaf ears.

I hope that you are being sincere in this reply. I also have profound disrespect for authority, and citizenship, and "country" - but not for my ticket. The fact is that you do need to have a ticket; everyone does. Your ticket is YOURS, and that's why you should respect it - it is the only ticket you will ever have in that very important regard. Especially if you consider yourself to be a free spirit who should be able to go wherever he wishes. I do also, but the way of the world is: "if you don't have a ticket, you cannot ride the bus." That is a pretty simple rule. And if you want to limit yourself to only one rule of society to follow in life, then that is the one.

There is no honour in keeping your own room as a foul garbage dump just because you don't like the way that the larger "society" in which you live comports itself. And there's no honour in treating your passport like waste paper just because you don't like the government that issued it. You're not hurting them, you're only hurting yourself. That's called "cutting off your nose to spite your face." If you like, there is also a very fine Thai equivalent to that wise, common-sense adage.

I despise the government that issues my passport, and have felt the same about all of the preceding governmental administrations of that country, but my passport is immaculate.

Because it is mine.

And even though the neighbourhood is dirty, my own flat is always clean.

Because I live in it - and "they" don't.

[Jingthing]

Because it is mine.

Actually it is not. That is an illusion. It is the property of the US government if you are talking about a US passport.

However, there is no rational benefit in abusing this property; like you said, you only hurt yourself.

For those owing child support, you won't get a new passport until you clear it up, so that doesn't apply to the OP as he did get a new passport. I think the fact they they didn't tell him does mean he is seen as a suspicious person for some reason. If it was because of a banged up passport, why not just say so?

Edited September 5, 2007 by Jingthing

[pyrolover2000]

I hope I read your concerns correctly. Did the embassy issue you a new passport? If so, I wouldn't be that worried. When I renewed my passport, they also took my old one. However, it was mailed back to me within two weeks. If your in Thailand without a visa, you need a new visa now. Go back to the US embassy and request a letter that states, your passport was renewed due to it's condition. Don't forget to have them include that, your current thai visa was attached to your old passport. This, and a little bit of cash, should help you obtain a new visa quickly. If the embassy will not issue you the letter, Contact your home state representatives in both congress and the senate. I would e-mail them first, then call within 24 hours. This way, you have a record of your actions on this issue.

Like I said before, I wouldn't be to worried about the old passport. The visa is more important

[mangkorn]

Because it is mine.

Actually it is not. That is an illusion. It is the property of the US government if you are talking about a US passport.

Oh, c'mon, that's pedantry. Of course it is the legal property of the government, and I pretty much made that clear by saying it was "the only ticket that you'll ever have." My main point was about what it represents in real terms for the holder of it, and that there is no reason to willfully jeopardise that. My argument was an attempt to address that issue only.

As for that being the reason that they took it away from this guy, I doubt it. Yet, it is possible, because the ranks of government officials the world over are filled with supercilious and stupid people - especially since we are talking about the US government, in this particularly dodgy moment in history, where they all seem to have that jack-booted, brown-shirt mentality of running wild over everybody, without any responsible adult supervision.

Why give them an excuse to display their worst tendencies?

Seems to me that a guy like the OP would do well to not call any undue attention to himself.

That's what I meant.

[DegenFarang]

Looks like you have your answer already.

Seems you presented yourself as a bum and were treated like a bum.

You see that (used?) to be the beauty about the USA. Even bums have (had?) equal rights under the law. What does a guy's scruffy appearance have to do with keeping his passport?

His appearance still has nothing to do with it. That's a red herring. I still maintain one or more of the countries he visited caused a red flag under the new guidelines of homeland security or something.

I've been to Cambodia several times, The Philippines, Thailand many many times, London several times, Germany, Spain...can't think of any other countries that homeland security would care about.

If I just got flagged as somebody they want to investigate further, I have no problem with that. I just don't want to lose my freedom/get detained etc. If they just keep harassing me every time I have to deal with the US Government just gives me that much more reason to swear I will never again live in my own country.

[DegenFarang]

My passport had been pretty beaten up for the 6 or so years I had it. It was actually torn and coming apart and I've been hassled quite a bit going into and out of various countries...Thaland included. So I decided to go get a new one awhile before it expired.

Went through the usual crap and they told me to come back in two weeks. I did so and when I came in they had the Vice Consul come and tell me he is not giving me my old passport back at the request of the State Department. He told me he wont tell me any more information than that and getting a lawyer wont help. Passport doesn't belong to me, it is State Department property.

I filled that passport so full of stamps I had to get a new set of pages added. Just flipping through it and thinking of all of the memories gives me goosebumps. And now they tell me I'll never see it again. Not to mention my Thai Visa which they have now confiscated as well.

So my question for you is, why is America such a piece of shit? Oh wait, sorry. Wrong question. Why would they do this? He was implying that I may be in some type of trouble or something, but he wouldn't say anything. What reason would they have to keep my old passport and not return it to me...yet allow me to have a brand new passport and leave the embassy without questioning me etc.

FWIW I've been all over and travelling pretty much full-time for the last two years. I'm a young guy with no job on record and probably dont look to them like somebody who should be able to do this. Customs in the US always gives me a nice long question and answer period when I come into the country. I'm white, but I get the feeling they view me as some kind of terrorist or something. Just a thought on the possible reason here. I'm not a terrorist but I live a pretty good life but present myself in a pretty scruffy '###### you' manner with a beard, never wear nice clothes etc. Just giving you guys some background to work with to help me solve this one.

Should I be worried? Should I get a lawyer to look into this? What is their problem? Anybody ever heard of this happening?

I would guess because you have traveled extensivley they find that a little unusual, so the usefull idiots want to keep your passport just as a reference for future use. if they want to fit you up in the future then they can use your travel movements to build a false flag senario with you as the pattsie. All terrorists have beards - as you know - so it will be easy to sell the story to your fellow dumbed down countrymen.

PS do you live in a cave

i like your idea. your delivery wasn't great, could have been a much more interesting post

would be absolutely laghmyassofpissingmypants hilarious if i got flagged as a potential John Walker Lindh or whatever that American Talibans name was. hel_l if i found out thats actully what this was i think i might go do four months around the middle east...kinda been wanting to check it out anyway...though personally i like buddhism better than islam

[DegenFarang]

My passport had been pretty beaten up for the 6 or so years I had it. It was actually torn and coming apart and I've been hassled quite a bit going into and out of various countries...Thaland included. So I decided to go get a new one awhile before it expired.

Went through the usual crap and they told me to come back in two weeks. I did so and when I came in they had the Vice Consul come and tell me he is not giving me my old passport back at the request of the State Department. He told me he wont tell me any more information than that and getting a lawyer wont help. Passport doesn't belong to me, it is State Department property.

I filled that passport so full of stamps I had to get a new set of pages added. Just flipping through it and thinking of all of the memories gives me goosebumps. And now they tell me I'll never see it again. Not to mention my Thai Visa which they have now confiscated as well.

So my question for you is, why is America such a piece of shit? Oh wait, sorry. Wrong question. Why would they do this? He was implying that I may be in some type of trouble or something, but he wouldn't say anything. What reason would they have to keep my old passport and not return it to me...yet allow me to have a brand new passport and leave the embassy without questioning me etc.

FWIW I've been all over and travelling pretty much full-time for the last two years. I'm a young guy with no job on record and probably dont look to them like somebody who should be able to do this. Customs in the US always gives me a nice long question and answer period when I come into the country. I'm white, but I get the feeling they view me as some kind of terrorist or something. Just a thought on the possible reason here. I'm not a terrorist but I live a pretty good life but present myself in a pretty scruffy '###### you' manner with a beard, never wear nice clothes etc. Just giving you guys some background to work with to help me solve this one.

Should I be worried? Should I get a lawyer to look into this? What is their problem? Anybody ever heard of this happening?

1. Did you travel to North Korea, Cuba, Iran on this passport?

2. Did you have any contraband items (i.e. items with false trademarks) conficated entering the U.S.?

3. Do you have outstanding child support payments (filed against you by a court decree)?

4. Are you on a suspected child pornograpy list in the U.S.?

5 Were you arrested in Thailand with this passport?

6. A passport that is suspected of being diliberately damaged may give them the idea that the damage was done to obliterate, or cover up a false visa.

7. The other possibility is that somehow you got on the TIDES (terrorist identification data) list.

i had a small legal matter in thailand but i'm pretty sure that this happened after i orignially applied for the passport and they were acting goofy about it at that time. i also dont see why they would keep my passport for that (what i did is akin to a traffic ticket...paid the fine and its done now...thai's didn't revoke my visa etc)

Edited September 6, 2007 by DegenFarang

[DegenFarang]

And there's no honour in treating your passport like waste paper just because you don't like the government that issued it.

hehe i didn't damage it because i was angry at george bush. i just didn't take great care of it the same way i've damaged a lot of nice things i own. before your post i already had planned to take much better care of this one. i never thought of it as my ticket and most valuable possession however, have just taken it for granted and luckily never lost it. you are right though, for my lifestyle, thats exactly what it is.

[baabaabobo]

Are you now are have you ever been a member of the communist party? ...

But seriously some official ticked a box stating that the passport was damaged and it was destroyed - end of story.

[Prakanong]

An embassy with-holding a passport is very unusual - and as several previous posters have mentioned - you're never goin' to get to the bottom of this.

Incidentally - over the last few years - thousands of Brits have been refused visas to visit the states - whether for a holiday or business - and the American embassy is under no obligation whatsoever to provide the unsuccessful applicants with an explanation. And doesn't.

Many of these people have no criminal records, are property owners and have regular full-time employment and in all respects would otherwise be deemed as responsible members of society. So why the huge number of rejections for no apparant reason? The unsuccessful applicants are left in the dark with a feeling of suspicion hanging over them.

I would say you've definitely been red-flagged - something that you've done in the past that has aroused suspicion with the authorities. And believe me - nowadays -something seemingly very trivial in most persons eyes can be enough.

Do you mean they have been refused entry under the waiver scheme or refused visa's after applying - they would have to apply if they had a non-machine readable passport.

My pal who is a Deputy Ambassador replied to me when I asked him what information we share with others replied, "We do share information with friendly government's and we consider Singapore and the USA friendly governments" - why thos two countries were mentioned I do not know.

[UnknownPoster]

.."He told me he wont tell me any more information than that and getting a lawyer wont help. Passport doesn't belong to me, it is State Department property."

Technically, he could tell you..but then he'd have to kill you.

[katana]

My passport had been pretty beaten up for the 6 or so years I had it. It was actually torn and coming apart and I've been hassled quite a bit going into and out of various countries...Thaland included. So I decided to go get a new one awhile before it expired.

Went through the usual crap and they told me to come back in two weeks. I did so and when I came in they had the Vice Consul come and tell me he is not giving me my old passport back at the request of the State Department. He told me he wont tell me any more information than that and getting a lawyer wont help. Passport doesn't belong to me, it is State Department property.

I filled that passport so full of stamps I had to get a new set of pages added. Just flipping through it and thinking of all of the memories gives me goosebumps. And now they tell me I'll never see it again. Not to mention my Thai Visa which they have now confiscated as well.

So my question for you is, why is America such a piece of shit? Oh wait, sorry. Wrong question. Why would they do this? He was implying that I may be in some type of trouble or something, but he wouldn't say anything. What reason would they have to keep my old passport and not return it to me...yet allow me to have a brand new passport and leave the embassy without questioning me etc.

FWIW I've been all over and travelling pretty much full-time for the last two years. I'm a young guy with no job on record and probably dont look to them like somebody who should be able to do this. Customs in the US always gives me a nice long question and answer period when I come into the country. I'm white, but I get the feeling they view me as some kind of terrorist or something. Just a thought on the possible reason here. I'm not a terrorist but I live a pretty good life but present myself in a pretty scruffy '###### you' manner with a beard, never wear nice clothes etc. Just giving you guys some background to work with to help me solve this one.

Should I be worried? Should I get a lawyer to look into this? What is their problem? Anybody ever heard of this happening?

It's so simple, you've overlooked the answer. They lost your old passport. They don't want to admit to incompetence so they telling you you're not getting it back. Duh.

That's what I was thinking as well.

[midas]

Any chance you have stamps to countries on the US forbidden list such as North Korea, Cuba etc.? Possibly a reason, but still odd.

These 2 countries dont put any mark at all in your passport

not even a souvenir stamp

[JimsKnight]

I must be lucky with my previous passport.

Some moron idiots thought it would be a good idea to steal my passport and mutilate it by burning and giving my picture the 'beard and moustache' treatment.

Recovered the passport (never discovered the perpertrators) and luckily the exterior cover took all the the burning damage, but still the picture was covered in blue ink.

Managed to remove the ink with strong industrial alcohol but the morons had actually left a massive imprint on it by the pressure they were using to deface it!

Trouble was I was going to Thailand the following week..

Heres what the consulate said.

"Hmm, is the photo laminate covering actually pierced or cut?"

"Nope just massively imprinted on the picture."

"Should be ok then."

Got into Thailand, the customs boys gave it the double take but never asked a question about the damage to the picture.

I got my old passport returned to me and they only 'snipped' the interior pages at the corner. The external two pages are completely intact. It's now used as a back-up if I have to leave a passport with anyone (like bike rental).

[retirednavyman]

Have you tried going to the State Department website itself for answers? You might get some answers there shipmate!

Why would some generic website tell him what a real live officer wouldn't? If it was because of mutilation, why not just say so, nothing wrong with that being the policy and stating it if asked.

Since he was and still is being given the runaround, I thought I would suggest other avenues for him to pursue. And, oh by the way Jingthing, tone it down!

[Jingthing]

Have you tried going to the State Department website itself for answers? You might get some answers there shipmate!

Why would some generic website tell him what a real live officer wouldn't? If it was because of mutilation, why not just say so, nothing wrong with that being the policy and stating it if asked.

Since he was and still is being given the runaround, I thought I would suggest other avenues for him to pursue. And, oh by the way Jingthing, tone it down!

Sir! Yes Sir!