I Want To Open A Bar In Thailand And Move To Live Downthere!

[jetjock]

Alex, if I understand you correctly, you are about to get a degree Electronics and Computer Engineering and you are thinking about utilizing your 22 years experience in life by opening a bar in Thailand. I am sure that would make logical sense to many 22 year olds but I do not think it would make much sense to anyone that has business experience and understands Thailand.

You have made a such a wise decision in your choice of degrees and have such great potential. I do not understand why after making such a wise choice in getting your degree that you would want to pursue such a longshot by opening a bar in Thailand. It is a much easier and a much surer bet to do it like most farangs do which is to make you money outside of Thailand and bring it back to Thailand later to enjoy it. It is possible to succeed in anything in life but people who utilize and understand the odds usually do far better in the long term.

[JimmyCA]

with enough money anyone can open a bar, even farang.

You want to live in Thailand why? Cheap girls?

100% certain you will loose all your money, especially if you have "thai friend" you can trust

Just go to Thailand and use your money to buy good time

[pointofview]

I have just phoned around a few contacts it pattaya and if your really interested i can get you 50 bars in total for 7 million baht. That includes 2 complete bar complexs; accommodation for 25 staff and 9 motorcycles - oh 7 bars also have adjoining restaurants.

PS the 7 million price tag includes all commisions (mine) at 75%

Edited September 11, 2007 by pointofview

[moo9]

to whom it may concern,

my name is alex and i am 22 years old. i am a romanian national living in denmark. i am about to graduate as an Electronics and Computer Engineering Engineer and am planning to open a business in thailand together with 3 of my other friends. we are all between 21 and 27 and on of them is a thai national living in denmark (went to university together, so i know him for 3 years now) and the other 2 are danish. my friends and i want to open a bar in thailand with the opening dat in about 1 yr and ½ or 2 yrs. not a gogo bar but a proper bar with drinks and animators (dancing girls) at best. we have an unique thing to bring to the business but i do not feel comfortable sharing this with the public since i am not sure of your confidentiality.

the reason for which i am writing is to ask for information regarding the steps that need to be followed to open a bar in thailand. the 4 of us want to invest about 7 000 000 BHT. the location of the bar is yet to be discussed but we are considering 4 variants: bangkok, pattaya, phuket and koh samui.

the money we want to invest we will get through a bank loan. it is obvious that a lot of details have to be covered, everything from residence and working visas to practical things such as running the business on an every day basis.

i need advice on what to put my focus on, advice if it is a good idea to invest money in this line of business and advice if this business can provide 4 ppl with a modest living but over the average (according to thai standards) in thailand.

we have no experience with opening a business but are eager to learn and are dedicated to the cause. except my thai friend only one of us has been to thailand twice while i have been there for only one month. it seems we are a bunch of dreamers foolishly jumping head first. we try to avoid getting burned and that is why we need as much information as possible before investing any money in this business!

i thank you for your time and hope you can aid me in my quest for opening a business in thailand.

alexxx

Wow, you might be the first farang who got this idea ;-)

Seriously, opening a bar seems like a nice idea, but I doubt that you can pay your living out of it.

As a farang, at the first glance, everything seems to be cheap here, but at the end of the month, compare your lifestyle in farang country with the one here. You'll be quite shocked, what you will end up paying here :-)

Don't misunderstand me. Up to you to open a bar, but carefully consider location, money under the table and monthly income and expenses.

I doubt that you realize a great life with it down here, but this is just my personal opinion!

Cheers

[blizzard]

the only thing that makes a bar make good money is hot girls . take a look at the pedestrian bars, they have pedestrian girls, and usually few customers.

he say it aint the girls but its probably the girls.......lol.

do like happy guys living in los, make yr money somewhere else and then move here. so it takes 20 plus years, thats life............lol.

[ozzydom]

I want to see the bank managers face when you tell him you want 7 mill to open a bar in Thailand.

[Heng]

Business in Thailand.

Bring as much money as you can, give all of it to some Thai's. Borrow some more. Give that too.

Woo hoo!

[garro]

Just what Thailand needs, another bar.

Why don't you start a business which would be of benefit to Thailand?

[soundman]

I want to see the bank managers face when you tell him you want 7 mill to open a bar in Thailand.

With no collateral, property or income!

[JimmyCA]

Just what Thailand needs, another bar.

Why don't you start a business which would be of benefit to Thailand?

Now that is the only thought with less potential than opening a bar.

Business is to make money, maybe you are thaiking about a nonprofit or something.

[puuchai299]

You spent only one month in Thailand and want to open a bar????

[TAWP]

as a young student if i ###### this up i shoot myself in...well actually i kill myself.

Welcome to Thailand. We will be more than happy to help you. You can probably find a tirak to help you with the latter aswell.

[blizzard]

genereally teerats dont go for young and ambitious..................(meaning short on cash). and remember to use protection.

Edited September 12, 2007 by blizzard

[terryp]

"Brilliant idea why didn’t I think of that?"

I give up, I don't know? (BEEN THERE DONE THAT WOKE UP MOVED ON )

"Those who do make money normally have many partners who can all front cash when needs be..."

If the business makes money why would they need all of these partners who can front cash. (ALMOST ALL THE BIG BARS IN THAILAND HAVE MULTI INVESTORS...IT'S ALL PART OF THE GAME)

Because very few make ANY money…easy to be a wise dik splash when you don’t know what you’re talking about..I do

To be truthful this must be the most imbecilic post ever ………….re-locate half way round the World, open one of the most difficult/fickle (language/laws/culture) business’s in the World on borrowed money …all after 1 month holiday

WAKE UP!

[calibanjr.]

Where were these guys when I was trying to get out of my big mistake in Pattaya in 2003 ?!

Edited September 12, 2007 by calibanjr.

[canadiangirl]

Just out of curiosity guys (this isn't my business plan, don't worry )

Why do bars in Thailand fail to make money? What specific mistakes do people make? (Of course, it must vary from bar to bar, I'm just wondering if there's a pattern)

Is it just too few customers? Bad location? Hard to get good staff? Too much tax? What?

I'd be curious to hear stories of what went wrong.

[Naam]

and the strange need to utter the word . .. Troll ?

there... there... Alex is not a troll, i can vouch for that. and as far as his plans are concerned let's take a look back at the dreams we had when we were his age.

what he needs are rational arguments to prevent him making a big mistake.

[britmaveric]

Just out of curiosity guys (this isn't my business plan, don't worry )

Why do bars in Thailand fail to make money? What specific mistakes do people make? (Of course, it must vary from bar to bar, I'm just wondering if there's a pattern)

Is it just too few customers? Bad location? Hard to get good staff? Too much tax? What?

I'd be curious to hear stories of what went wrong.

-Key money

-no customers

-bad location

-bad staff

-embezzlement

-drinking own stock

-too many bars

-prices too high

-low season

-MIB

-bad thai partner

-bar is not unique

I'm sure there are more I haven't thought of.....

[britmaveric]

and the strange need to utter the word . .. Troll ?

there... there... Alex is not a troll, i can vouch for that. and as far as his plans are concerned let's take a look back at the dreams we had when we were his age.

what he needs are rational arguments to prevent him making a big mistake.

Well think it will be hard for him to find the capital for such a sound business venture.

[alexxx]

There is so many pitfalls with owning a bar - I'm quite sure a few former bar owners will comment on this. If you go in with the idea of spending lot of money and expect only a small return then this is a realistic expectation.

i am aware that this line of business is incredibly risky but i do believe that with a thorough plan we can make it. the return should provide us with a decent living style. i do not want to go to thailand and be poor! at this point i am building the foundations of an attack plan to tackle this idea. time will tell if it will work or not!

thanks for your input

[alexxx]

yes you can open a bar and work with a work permit ,it will have to be in pattaya as samui ,phuket and bkk will cost a lot more than 700000b devide the profit if any 4 ways and the bar will be on the market within 3 months and you probably wont be freinds anymore .....

He said 7 million baht and that's more than enough to open a bar anywhere in the country.

Yes, farangs do own bars here and make a good profit.

But the odds are stacked well against you all since you neither have experience of the country or of business.

i agree completely. the lack of business experience is indeed a problem. i was thinking that a way to balance the equation so to say could be to use the advice of more versed people in the business. i am now trying to get in contact with actual bar owners from thailand, RETIRED bar owners to be more exact as i understand you cannot trust in the advice of a normal bar owner. no decision will be taken without the advice of a lawyer and let me stress how important it is for me that i start with as a complete business plan as possible. this is to say once i have a plan i want to follow it to the letter and be sure to a certain degree of the outcome.

[crewcut]

"Because very few make ANY money…easy to be a wise dik splash when you don't know what you're talking about..I do"

I didn't mean to be a wise dik splash, I didn't realise I was talking to big Terry from the Toon! Big Terry knows everything and everybody else should just listen.

We must obay and respect Big Terry.

Like Sh**e.

[alexxx]

He said 7 million baht and that's more than enough to open a bar anywhere in the country.

Yes, farangs do own bars here and make a good profit.

But the odds are stacked well against you all since you neither have experience of the country or of business.

... loan of 7 millions... That's the first pitfall 1. I mean loosing your own money, no problem some people love it... However loosing borrowed money, that's another story.

Furthermore, of course some farangs are runing bars in Thailand. And probably successfully for some of them.

But the plan is so vague (BKK, Phuket, Samui or Pattaya)... And we need to repeat that's it's illegal 2.

According to Foreign Business Act, it's impossible for foreigners to control a company in food and beverage (List 3 of the FBA).

Okay again : many people DID IT in the past (via nominees and dual share structures).

But if our friend Alex look at the news... he will see that the thai gvt is in the process to close those loopholes (with an amended version of FBA). At least, wants to.

Last solution : give up the control. Really. And then, it's whole complete different story.

Sorry for my harsh comments, I don't like to discourage people, but I think it's just plain common sense.

Taking risk, sure, why not. But not before doing the proper homework and aknowledging the risks.

i would first like to say that i am thankful for harsh comments since they represent a wake up call in the case i fall into daydreaming. so keep'em coming .

1. i agree with the assessment that loosing borrowed money is a problem. i would like to mention however that the 7 million baht will be borrowed by 4 people and not just one. so from a personal point of view i would only owe aprox. 1,8 mil baht. loosing this money would be a very unfortunate situation. i take comfort in believing that i am young and have the time to make up for my debt before i am too old to start a family.

2. the plan is vague ... so far but i am trying to correct that. as we speak i am planning how big a place we need, with what access ways, etc. and most importantly where it should be situated in order to hit a target consumer class. as for the illegal part i am sad to admit that it seems it is true. an idea to counter this would be to put all the business on my thai friend’s name and keep all our names on the contract lease and act as investors. then by establishing a binding contract to agree to split the profits 4 equal ways. could this work????

COME WITH SOME FEEDBACK TO MY SUGGESTION IN NUMBER 2!!!!

thank you for your participation

[crewcut]

PM TerryP, he knows everything!

[alexxx]

The biggest problem I see here (being serious for a moment) is - 4 people owning a bar!

4 people . . . and you all want your money back you've got to get some real big profits from month to month to get anywhere near that kind of investment back.

So what happens when you're breaking say 100k baht profit per month and have 25k each to live?

If you were doing with a partner or alone - maybe but 4 people all with different ideas also . . I just don't see it happening!

yes this is one of my biggest fears as well. if this business cannot sustain 4 ppl then it is either not feasible or we need to reduce the number of owners . in the first yr or 2 i am not expecting a profit...at all. do you think i should reduce the numebr of "owners". then again the money that each of us needs to invest (borrow) will increase. thus the risks increase.

[alexxx]

Sure there are some bars that make good money, often they are the ones that have a loyal customer base of local expats and also tourists who come every year. But mostly bars keep changing ownership and not without reason. Just spend one night in a Phuket or Pattaya bar that seems busy, and keep track of how many drinks they sell. It will be a joke compared to a busy neighborhood bar in Denmark, where the barkeeper sometimes has to stop taking orders because he needs time to rinse glasses. And......did you ever go on a bar crawl during the low season?

i have been in bkk, pattaya and phuket in augsut in the low season. it seemed to me the bars were doing pretty well. as for the ownership, once the bar reacehes its peak i intend to sell it and move on to another project. you are right denmark is a better investment market but the taxes kill you and denmark is not thailand.

[bkkmadness]

an idea to counter this would be to put all the business on my thai friend’s name and keep all our names on the contract lease and act as investors. then by establishing a binding contract to agree to split the profits 4 equal ways. could this work????

You've known him only three years, sure he's gonna be as trustworthy in another 3 years? Gotta protect yourself here, there's a good chance you might not all be friends once a few problems arise.

[alexxx]

Which bank are you going to borrow 7 million baht from?

Sounds like a really bad idea to me, why not just take a year off and come and tour around.

well we would all borrow 1,7 mil each. and we would probably do it from dk. i do not want to tour arround becasue i want to live down there. i want to enjoy life with it's ups and downs (and that i am sure i will have plenty of) in thailand.

I'll do the maths: You plan to borrow 7,000,000 Bahts from Denmark. That is about 152,000 Euros at the current exchange rate.

Assuming an interest rate of 5% per year, this means you will have to pay 7600 Euros per year, equivalent to 633 Euros per month (I drop the decimals) or about 29,000 Bahts just to pay the interest.

Add the repayments of the capital and some small salary for the four of you, and the bar already needs to generate a minimum of 80-100,000 Bahts in net profits per month. I don't see a newly opened bar managing that.

i don't expect a profit in the first 1yr or 2. the loan we are thinking of taking has a 12 month "on hold stage" which means we begin paying after one year or so. as for the money to be paid they are divided by 4. it is a risky move and before putting the money in this i will talk of course with my bank advisor. as many on the forum said there might be problems getting the loan at all.

[markr]

Have you ever worked in a bar before Alex?

Maybe a good start for you would be to get a job managing a bar in your own country to gain some experience.

If you can be sucessful at this then try thailand

[alexxx]

My advice would be to find a property, (a house or shop etc) in an area that you think has the type and number of customers for your unique selling point. Rent the premises for say 3 years, spend the bear minimum on a shop fit and put all the licenses etc in your Thai partner/friends name, but put the lease agreement in all of your names. The idea being that you use these 3 years or whatever to test the water and see if running a bar is all you think. This could be done for less then a million which is 250,000 baht each. You get to be in Thailand try your idea out and not commit yourselves to risking too much money. If you live in and don't spend too much your money will go even further.

In reality it is doubtful that this type of business would support 4 people, even two couples. Most of the best locations are gone and some people ask stupid key money.

Don't spend more than you can afford to lose.

Good Luck.

excellent advice. if the plan seems shabby i would definetly consider doing that. in 6 months a strategy will have to be complete. until then i am gathering information and trying to get the bigger picture.

thank you for your help.