เกร็ดความรู้

[DavidHouston]

เกร็ดความรู้ per Lexitron are "[N] useful hints or ideas; bits of knowledge; tips; basics; practical facts"

This forum is blessed with many readers and posters with extensive knowledge of the Thai language. Some of these people are Thais who have given of themselves to help us learners; others are foreigners who have mastered many aspects of the language. However, almost all of us are still learning Thai -- its basics, its nuances, and its surrounding culture.

Everyday most of us learn something we did not know before; each of us is following a different path from other learners. I believe we can help each other if we post to this, or any other topic, something that we learned. The post can be simple: the new word or new usage of an old word; how it is used in a sentence; a sentence or clause that caught our fancy; a new slang expression or interesting metaphor; or, something we heard, and said to ourselves, "isn't that spiffy" (choose the adjective that strikes your fancy).

You need not pen an essay; a short entry will do. Personally, I am hungry for new knowledge and you know things and have experiences that can benefit us all. Let us in on what you know. Here's a start:

________________

เกร็ดความรู้ [grèt kwaam róo ] uses the word "เกร็ด" [N] detail; frill; bits; fragment. This word looks suspiciously like เกล็ด [glèt], a scale (of a fish) or a flake (of snow).

However they are spelled and pronounced differently. Usages include: เกล็ดปลา [glèt bplaa] [N] scale; fish scale, บานเกล็ด a window louver, and เกล็ดเลือด [glèt lêuat] [N] (blood) platelet.

_________________

Let us know what you think; thanks.

[soundman]

เกล็ดเลือด - I don't understand this one. Scaly/flaky blood?

[DavidHouston]

เกล็ดเลือด - I don't understand this one. Scaly/flaky blood?

I think this is a very imaginative use of words, and similar to the English word in origin. Platelet - from Websters: "etymology: International Scientific Vocabulary plate + -let : a minute flattened body." The Thai usage is "scale", also a flattened, disk-like object.

[soundman]

เกล็ดเลือด - I don't understand this one. Scaly/flaky blood?

I think this is a very imaginative use of words, and similar to the English word in origin. Platelet - from Websters: "etymology: International Scientific Vocabulary plate + -let : a minute flattened body." The Thai usage is "scale", also a flattened, disk-like object.

OK - After some practical implimentation:

เกล็ดเลือด - blood cells.

เกร็ดความรู้ - having knowledge about a particular subject.

Cheers.

[taxexile]

i think เกล็ดเลือด refers only to platelets.

for blood cells in general, i would use เม็ดเลือด

[soundman]

i think เกล็ดเลือด refers only to platelets.

for blood cells in general, i would use เม็ดเลือด

That sounds correct - but my dilemma is that I have no idea what a "plate-let" is... Sounds like a baby plate. Pig - piglet!

[taxexile]

The human body does not handle excessive blood loss well. Therefore, the body has ways of protecting itself. When, for some unexpected reason, sudden blood loss occurs, the blood platelets kick into action.

Platelets are irregularly-shaped, colorless bodies that are present in blood. Their sticky surface lets them, along with other substances, form clots to stop bleeding.

[soundman]

The human body does not handle excessive blood loss well. Therefore, the body has ways of protecting itself. When, for some unexpected reason, sudden blood loss occurs, the blood platelets kick into action.

Platelets are irregularly-shaped, colorless bodies that are present in blood. Their sticky surface lets them, along with other substances, form clots to stop bleeding.

Oh - that could well be what wifey was trying to get accross to me when she kept on talking about cells.

[DavidHouston]

From today's Matichon, some new words:

" . . . นายสมิทธ ธรรมสโรช ผู้อำนวยการศูนย์เตือนภัยพิบัติแห่งชาติ กล่าวถึงอุบัติเหตุเครื่องบินสายการบินวันทูโก ตกรันเวย์ที่ จ.ภูเก็ต ว่า มีความเป็นไปได้ว่าอาจจะมาจากกระแสลมที่กระโชกแรง ประกอบกับการตัดสินใจที่ผิดพลาดของนักบิน ที่พยายามจะนำเอาเครื่องลงจอดทั้งที่สภาพอากาศไม่เอื้ออำนวย จากประสบการณ์สมัยเป็นอธิบดีกรมอุตุนิยมวิทยา ก็พบเหตุการณ์ทำนองนี้อยู่บ่อยครั้ง และที่ตั้งของสนามบินภูเก็ตมีลมกระโชกแรงอยู่มาก ดังนั้น นักบินจึงต้องมีความชำนาญ และใช้ดุลพินิจในการนำเครื่องลงอย่างมาก"

" . . . Mr. Smith Thammasarot, the Director of the National Disaster Warning Center, spoke about the accident involving One-Two-Go Airlines which missed the runway in Phuket Proivnce. He stated, "there is certainly a possibility that [the accident was caused] by a wind current that gusted unusually hard combined with the erroneous decision of the pilot who attempted to land the plane in these unfavorable atmospheric conditions. From my experience as the Chief of the Weather Service, we often encountered these conditions. The position and location of the Phuket airport [fosters] frequent windshears. Therefore, pilots [flying there] must posess [a great deal of] expertise and exercise a significant amount of good judgement and discretion in landing aircraft [there.]

(BTW, my translations tend to emphasize relationships to the Thai words, rather than facility in the English so as to relate the two as best I can. Brackets insert words which are not found in the Thai.)

New words and phrases:

ลมที่กระโชกแรง [lom têe grà-chôhk raeng] - windshear

สภาพอากาศไม่เอื้ออำนวย [sà-pàap aa-gàat mâi êua am-nuay]- unfavorable atmospheric conditions (I think "paap" should be "falling", not "low", tone.)

ดุลพินิจ [doon pí-nít] - judgement and discretion (The RID has the pronunciation "dun-la-pi-nit")

Any suggestions or corrections?

[DavidHouston]

From the Oxford University Press, Garner's Usage Tip of the Day, today:

"Harebrained" is the correct form; "hairbrained" is the common blunder. The misspelling falls just short of being what it attempts to denote." The word in English means, "foolish", as in "harebrained scheme. Hare, in this case is a member of the rabbit family. Interestingly, the Thais have a saying which also refers to the supposed low intellectual capability of this member of the Leporidae family: "กระต่ายตื่นตูม", or a "panic striken rabbit." We would use the phrase, "like a chicken running around with its head cut off.

[midasthailand]

From today's Matichon, some new words:

" . . . นายสมิทธ ธรรมสโรช ผู้อำนวยการศูนย์เตือนภัยพิบัติแห่งชาติ กล่าวถึงอุบัติเหตุเครื่องบินสายการบินวันทูโก ตกรันเวย์ที่ จ.ภูเก็ต ว่า มีความเป็นไปได้ว่าอาจจะมาจากกระแสลมที่กระโชกแรง ประกอบกับการตัดสินใจที่ผิดพลาดของนักบิน ที่พยายามจะนำเอาเครื่องลงจอดทั้งที่สภาพอากาศไม่เอื้ออำนวย จากประสบการณ์สมัยเป็นอธิบดีกรมอุตุนิยมวิทยา ก็พบเหตุการณ์ทำนองนี้อยู่บ่อยครั้ง และที่ตั้งของสนามบินภูเก็ตมีลมกระโชกแรงอยู่มาก ดังนั้น นักบินจึงต้องมีความชำนาญ และใช้ดุลพินิจในการนำเครื่องลงอย่างมาก"

" . . . Mr. Smith Thammasarot, the Director of the National Disaster Warning Center, spoke about the accident involving One-Two-Go Airlines which missed the runway in Phuket Proivnce. He stated, "there is certainly a possibility that [the accident was caused] by a wind current that gusted unusually hard combined with the erroneous decision of the pilot who attempted to land the plane in these unfavorable atmospheric conditions. From my experience as the Chief of the Weather Service, we often encountered these conditions. The position and location of the Phuket airport [fosters] frequent windshears. Therefore, pilots [flying there] must posess [a great deal of] expertise and exercise a significant amount of good judgement and discretion in landing aircraft [there.]

(BTW, my translations tend to emphasize relationships to the Thai words, rather than facility in the English so as to relate the two as best I can. Brackets insert words which are not found in the Thai.)

New words and phrases:

ลมที่กระโชกแรง [lom têe grà-chôhk raeng] - windshear

สภาพอากาศไม่เอื้ออำนวย [sà-pàap aa-gàat mâi êua am-nuay]- unfavorable atmospheric conditions (I think "paap" should be "falling", not "low", tone.)

ดุลพินิจ [doon pí-nít] - judgement and discretion (The RID has the pronunciation "dun-la-pi-nit")

Any suggestions or corrections?

That's pretty well spot on David and I agree that "paap" should be falling tone.

[taxexile]

ตกรันเวย์ you translate this as " missed the runway" , where i would read it as "fell onto the runway" ,

what other word could you use to describe "missing" as in "missing the intended target"

i can only think of พลาด and i'm not sure how it could be used in this instance.

[DavidHouston]

ตกรันเวย์ you translate this as " missed the runway" , where i would read it as "fell onto the runway" ,

what other word could you use to describe "missing" as in "missing the intended target"

i can only think of พลาด and i'm not sure how it could be used in this instance.

Here is another news report, this an instant internet report from the Daily News:

"เมื่อวันที่ 16 ก.ย. ผู้สื่อข่าวรายงานว่า เมื่อสักครู่ที่ผ่านมา สายการวันทูโก เที่ยวบินที่ OG 269 กรุงเทพ-ภูเก็ต เกิดลื่นไถลตกรันเวย์ที่สนามบินภูเก็ต"

"On September 16th, news reporters reported that a few minutes ago, a 1-2-Go aircraft, flight number OG 269, Bangkok to Phuket, slid off the runway at the Phuket airport."

Since ลื่นไถล "slide or slip" preceeds "ตกรันเวย์" it looks like the latter term in this context means "off the runway", rather than "missed the runway." In the case of a railroad accident, the term is "ตกราง", to derail; go off the rails

Def. รถไฟแล่นพลาดออกจากราง. "a the train which runs off the tracks"

Lexitron, it seems treats ตก and พลาด as synonomous in this case. Let's see what we can find for "missing the intended target" in the case of an airplane. Maybe the proper term is "คลาด".

Thanks for the correction. Any of our Thai respondents give us some assistance here?

[soundman]

เกร็ดความรู้ per Lexitron are "[N] useful hints or ideas; bits of knowledge; tips; basics; practical facts"

<Snip>

เกร็ดความรู้ [grèt kwaam róo ] uses the word "เกร็ด" [N] detail; frill; bits; fragment. This word looks suspiciously like เกล็ด [glèt], a scale (of a fish) or a flake (of snow).

However they are spelled and pronounced differently. Usages include: เกล็ดปลา [glèt bplaa] [N] scale; fish scale, บานเกล็ด a window louver, and เกล็ดเลือด [glèt lêuat] [N] (blood) platelet.

_________________

Let us know what you think; thanks.

Here is a new one I came accross this morning using "gret" word from above.

เกร็ดน้ำแข็ง - gret num kairng - slushy ice water - as in a 7/11 slurpy!

Cheers,

Soundman.

[DavidHouston]

Here is a new one I came accross this morning using "gret" word from above.

เกร็ดน้ำแข็ง - gret num kairng - slushy ice water - as in a 7/11 slurpy!

Cheers,

Soundman.

Good one, Soundman.

Let's look a bit closer at this word. Here is the definition from the RID:

"เกร็ด ๑ [เกฺร็ด] น. ลําน้ำเล็กที่เป็นทางลัดเชื่อมลําน้ำใหญ่สายเดียวกัน

ทั้ง ๒ ข้าง, ใช้เป็น เตร็ด ก็มี."

"Grèt (definition 1) (noun) small portions of water which are 'shortcut' connections to larger pieces of water in the same stream." While I was looking for "slush", Lexitron offers a more logical explanation, "เกร็ด 1 [N] bend; river bend; twist", and states as a definition the wording from the RID above.

So, what is the meaning of "ลํา" in the definition of "เกร็ด", inquiring minds want to know? From the Matichon dictionary (but not in the on-line RID), "ลำ – เรียกสิ่งซึ่งมีลักษณะกลมยาว",

"lam – a [prefix] used to call things that have the characteristic of [being] 'round and long'."

There is a second definition, "เกร็ด ๒ [เกฺร็ด] น. ส่วนย่อยหรือส่วนเบ็ดเตล็ด ซึ่งเป็นเรื่องสนุกหรือน่าสนใจ . . . "

"Grèt (definition 2) (noun) Small portions or miscellaneous pieces which are fun or interesting . . ." (see the RID for an expanded explanation)

Well, must to my personal dismay, the RID seems not to have presaged 7-11 and its Slurpy. เกร็ด in the context which Soundman raises, then, must be a neologism and a derivative of Lexitron's second definition, "เกร็ด 2 [N] detail; frill; bits; fragment." As we say, "Sometimes chickens, sometimes feathers."

[soundman]

"lam – a [prefix] used to call things that have the characteristic of [being] 'round and long'."

As you say "lum" is a particle (pre or postfix? ) describing things that are long and bulbous.

เครื่องบินสองลำ - kreung bin sorng lum - two aeroplanes.

เรือสามลำ - reuah sahm lum - three boats.

Cheers.

[mangkorn]

Isn't "lam" properly classified as a classifier - ลักษณนาม - instead of a prefix (or suffix or particle)?

Edited September 26, 2007 by mangkorn

[mangkorn]

Re: สภาพ - does that follow an irregular tone rule, then? As written, it may seem that it should be low tone. A couple dictionaries I consulted say it is falling tone, although Thai2English seems to have it as low tone (but then that site is pretty unreliable about tones). In regular terms, wouldn't a falling tone be indicated by a spelling of สะภาพ ?

I'm feeling a bit hare-brained about this one at the moment...

[DavidHouston]

Isn't "lam" properly classified as a classifier - ลักษณนาม - instead of a prefix (or suffix or particle)?

That too! But there is (per Lexitron): ลำ 2 [N] trunk; body; stalk / ลำตัว [N] torso; trunk; body / ลำต้น [N] trunk; stem; stalk; bole / ลำคลอง [N] canal; course of a canal / ลำคอ [N] neck; throat / and similar words for arm and leg.

[Suszzy]

hi,davidhouston

i got your message..thanks.

got to tell you that i like to read your post.

seem to me you really do your homework with..

the subjects you take on. you know what you're talking about.

and i like that..!! Fantastic. and it's great to know someone who isn't thai

but knows so much, so deep about thai culture and the language.

i'm impressed..keep up the good work..!

[soundman]

Isn't "lam" properly classified as a classifier - ลักษณนาม - instead of a prefix (or suffix or particle)?

Probably!

I not real good with "definitions" of language / words. Hardly made it past nouns & verbs in English!

Cheers.

[soundman]

After answering a question in another thread I came accross this....

Don't get this the wrong way around in.....

นอนหลับ - norn lup - to go to bed

หลับนอน - lup norn - to have sex

Cheers.

[DavidHouston]

A new word for me from a news item in the Phuket Gazette:

"Earlier, the Karon Tambon Chief Winai Chidchiew criticized Chalong Police in the Thai-language press for not doing enough to bring perpetrators of wing raaw (snatch and run) crimes to justice."

Here is the Thai word: วิ่งราว [wîng raao] [V] snatch and run away; grab and run

Syn. ฉกชิงวิ่งราว

Def. ฉกเอาสิ่งของแล้ววิ่งหนีไป.

Sample:เดือนนี้เป็นหนที่สองแล้วที่เธอถูกวิ่งราวกระเป๋า

"The is the second time this month that your purse has been snatched."