Climbing Out Of Poverty? (say, Starting From A Slum Or The Paddy Field)

[teacup]

- 1 wife, 3-4 mianois,

Success is measured in Thailand by how many Mercedes and how many mia nois one has. I'll be going for two of each.

You know you shouldn’t be making any conclusion before you know all the facts.

1) No…only the green one was his, the other two used to belong to certain individuals who couldn’t pay back their loan, so my brothers got to drive them.

2) No he’s not in the business of loaning money with just any collateral. He’s a land developer, not a back door loan shark and only did the deals just for the personal favors.

3) As for the mianois part – can’t comment on that, it was his/private choice. As you should have known by now, it’s quite normal for some men in Thailand to have them and this practice is not just reserved for the rich only, plenty of “not well to do” thai men have them too. But atleast my father’s making sure “all” of his offsprings (both within and out of wedlock - 7 of us all together) will have all the opportunities for higher educations their brains can hold by setting up the private education trust for each one of us before he passed away.

Edited September 16, 2007 by teacup

[meemiathai]

"..........

People keep saying to learn something.

LEARN WHAT?

Please don't just dream like there are plenty to do!

Learn how to measure and cut wood. Learn how to raise some crop other than rice. Learn how to lay tiles. Learn how to do whatever is going on around you where people make more money than you do. Learn how to fish. Learn how to do percentages and fractions. Learn how to keep books. Learn how to tune a car.

Man....you must have very little imagination to think that there is nothing to learn in life that can financially benefit someone. Usually the difference between someone who makes more and someone who makes less is knowledge of some sort or another.

So my sister in law goes to work at 8am and finishes at 10pm, at what time should I suggest her to go and learn to measure and cut wood? where? which crop do you know about that is going to make money? Fishing? Where? When?

"Learn how to do whatever is going on around you where people make more money than you do."

So you condone people treating farangs as walking atms?

Sounds like your sister in law is not poor at all....she has a regular job. Why do you think she is poor?

How do you want to live your life? How do you actually live your life?

How much money does one have to have to be considered not poor? I am not sure if she is poor or not.

But working from 8am to 10pm in a factory till having low back pain, having a son staying in Isaan but have to work in Bkk and missing a lot of time seeing the son grow up, having a baby getting ill and die because not having money for better treatment, I guess you or I would like to see some improvement?

[meemiathai]

A very interesting question, meemiathai.

It's more realistic, I think, to consider how one could rise from poverty to being middle-class, or upper-working class, than these rags-to-riches stories.

There's a great writer called Ruby Payne who wrote a book called "A Framework for understanding poverty" -- it's aimed at middle class teachers in the American school system who teach poor inner city kids. She says that poverty is not just a lack of money, but a lack of all kinds of different resources

emotional: emotional stability, self-esteem, confidence (so having the confidence in oneself to apply for scholarships, jobs, etc, which often poor people don't have)

physical: personal health, being attractive, being well-dressed (having bad teeth, unattractive clothes, and being sick often from malnutrition, not having money to go to the doctor)

spiritual: having hope, faith in the future

mental: being smart, having an education

support system: having your family support you, help from extended family

"cultural capital": understanding middle class and ruling class culture

role models: having people around you that you admire and you can learn from

financial: $$$

The more of these you have, the better your chances of rising out of poverty. When only money is lacking but the other factors are there, it's not that hard to rise out of it -- a good example of this to me seems to be Chinese immigrants -- after one or two generation do very, very well, no matter where they are. Because they seem to have every other resources -- strong family ties, value on education, desire to move forward, lots of examples to emulate.

it can be done ,work hard(what if you are physically uncapable of) listen and learn from others(what if you are not that intelligent enough) ,read about things to educate yourself (what if you are illiterate?),stay away from bad influences(what if you are stuck to them) ,most of all try to be fair and always remember where you came from ...

I know it does seem like I am looking for excuses for people who seem not to try hard enough to get out of their situation.

But realistically it is really not that simple that they are just lazy.

I would like people to heed that in real life, there are a lot of occasions where we see things very very easy and yet there are people who seem to fail doing it properly. Actually these things could turn the other way round when you and I come across things that we find difficult but easy to those people.

For example, I have serious sleeping problems, hence I get very tired when I am at work, but my superiors always think I go out too much. It affects my performance seriously although still good. No one understands it!

By the way, CG, good post!

[chownah]

"..........

People keep saying to learn something.

LEARN WHAT?

Please don't just dream like there are plenty to do!

Learn how to measure and cut wood. Learn how to raise some crop other than rice. Learn how to lay tiles. Learn how to do whatever is going on around you where people make more money than you do. Learn how to fish. Learn how to do percentages and fractions. Learn how to keep books. Learn how to tune a car.

Man....you must have very little imagination to think that there is nothing to learn in life that can financially benefit someone. Usually the difference between someone who makes more and someone who makes less is knowledge of some sort or another.

So my sister in law goes to work at 8am and finishes at 10pm, at what time should I suggest her to go and learn to measure and cut wood? where? which crop do you know about that is going to make money? Fishing? Where? When?

"Learn how to do whatever is going on around you where people make more money than you do."

So you condone people treating farangs as walking atms?

Sounds like your sister in law is not poor at all....she has a regular job. Why do you think she is poor?

How do you want to live your life? How do you actually live your life?

How much money does one have to have to be considered not poor? I am not sure if she is poor or not.

But working from 8am to 10pm in a factory till having low back pain, having a son staying in Isaan but have to work in Bkk and missing a lot of time seeing the son grow up, having a baby getting ill and die because not having money for better treatment, I guess you or I would like to see some improvement?

If someone will have a better life by making more money then I'm all for them making more money....how to do this?......the only way I know is to develop skills and develop good habits...no drugs/alcohol/tobacco, healthy food, live simply, save what you can...etc. etc. Is there any other way?

[jts-khorat]

If someone will have a better life by making more money then I'm all for them making more money....how to do this?......the only way I know is to develop skills and develop good habits...no drugs/alcohol/tobacco, healthy food, live simply, save what you can...etc. etc. Is there any other way?

Chownah, even though you are spot-on with your answer, meemiathai will never listen.

We just had about the exactly same exercise in another thread, where he got exactly the same arguments as yours from a number of people, rejecting every single one as not fitting his situation and then demanding that other solutions be found.

He is a talker without substance, if not a troll. Sad to have wasted good time on an otherwise serious problem and have the thread then degenerate because of whiners like him.

[Ricardo]

To add to my earlier list, Mrs R. points out that many local people in our village own the land surrounding their homes, but few of them seem to raise much of their own food. So I would add to the list - Grow Your Own !

[torrenova]

I think you will find with very very rare exceptions, rich people, who others think were self made, had a serious start somewhere, were in the right place at the right time through sheer luck, or rode their luck in skirting / breaking the law.

College costs money, to get to college costs money and if there is none, you will not be going.

Starting a business sounds easy but from day one you have to live. Not many have the fall back cash to pay the bills until they sell something and start positive cashflow.

Everything thinks Richard Branson made it all himself. No, he got a serious cash bung from his father, well over $1,000,000 today. I do not know many people who could give their hippt son that on a whim and not worry about it. The fact is, that by any normal definition, his family were rich anyway.

Bill Gates ? rich family.

F1 drivers ? rich families even to start the basic carting, then sponsors for a cut of future earnings.

The best bets come from the Chinese and Indian philosophy. Many family members chip in to raise some cash for "Jonny" to start a business after working for them prior to going on his own.

In my family, no grandparents owned anything other than their clothes, no inheritances, no "helping hand" from ethnic groups. Not a lot actually.

I am looking to make the next move past critical mass into a level where my Thai income so far exceeds my spending that even after saving, there will be immediate further investment which will produce quick returns. that will in turn provide future cash.

$0 to $1,000,000 is night on impossible because you may need $25,000 to live. Getting from $50,000 to $1,000,000 is not so difficult if you can still live on near $25,000. Once you get on that path, with 50k spare one year, 75 the next, 120 the next, you are set. Getting from $0 to 25,000 and then from $25,000 to $50,000 is the problem.

[meemiathai]

If someone will have a better life by making more money then I'm all for them making more money....how to do this?......the only way I know is to develop skills and develop good habits...no drugs/alcohol/tobacco, healthy food, live simply, save what you can...etc. etc. Is there any other way?

Chownah, even though you are spot-on with your answer, meemiathai will never listen.

We just had about the exactly same exercise in another thread, where he got exactly the same arguments as yours from a number of people, rejecting every single one as not fitting his situation and then demanding that other solutions be found.

He is a talker without substance, if not a troll. Sad to have wasted good time on an otherwise serious problem and have the thread then degenerate because of whiners like him.

[meemiathai]

I do ocassionally come into contact with retardeds so I am a little patient nowadays. "Mai ben'rai"

Let me simplify things.

Let's say there are a 100 men who lived all their lives in a jungle and have never come in contact with modern technology.

And there are also a 100 men from the western civilized world. They all know 5000 miles away off a certain direction there lays paradise and all started heading towards it. They have nothing at all at the begining. They all started walking at a same pace. After about 200 miles they saw 100 bicycles. Some of those jungle men could have got onto some of those bikes but they just didn't know <deleted> those things were. Then they saw those 100 civilized men riding the bikes and went really fast and vanished. Jungle men then say to themselves "shit! we should have used those things! We shall use them if we ever see any on our way!"

At the 2000 mile mark, the civilized saw 100 cars, they then put down the bikes and started driving. A long time later the jungle men arrived and saw the bikes. They start to use them. Some managed to learn. Some didn't and they gave up and carried on walking.(yes these are the ones you guys call lazy and has so-called chosen not to learn I guess )

At the 3000 mile mark, the civilized saw 100 planes so they get off the cars and got on the planes. Those who don't know how to fly got on to the planes of those who do.(I guess these are like the ones in the west who receives public assistance).

Well, let me see. Hey where the he11 are those jungle men? I hardly even remember their existence! Oh yes some are still walking and some seemed to have made it to the 2000 mile mark on their bikes and saw the cars. This time they seemed to have learned a bit that something circular underneath an object might help them. Hey they learn fast, don't they!(of course again someone here is not going to appreciate it! ) Some of them finally managed to drive the cars but some didn't and kept on riding the bikes.

So now we have some still walking, some biking, some driving, but those on the planes are in paradise already!

OK by the time they reach the planes, some tried and killed themselves, maybe some managed to fly?

In the end, a lot died on their way, some did finally make it but by the time they were in paradise they were already old enough to die.

In real life things are much more complicated but are more or less the same.

For those dreamers who say "educate yourselves, better yourselves, blah blah blan....", you still owe me the answer!

What is STEP ONE for my sister in law? Please note she works from 8am to 10pm just to stay alive!

I swear I will tell her about the answer!

Sorry for the long clumsy post but please accept that there indeed are different degree of intelligence within human beings in real life.

[solo siam]

There are planes in paradise?

[Jersey_UK]

For those dreamers who say "educate yourselves, better yourselves, blah blah blan....", you still owe me the answer!

I owe you <deleted> all.

With you in the family no fookin wonder she is still in the Factory 24/7, probably the only way she can drown out the whining

[meemiathai]

For those dreamers who say "educate yourselves, better yourselves, blah blah blan....", you still owe me the answer!

I owe you <deleted> all.

With you in the family no fookin wonder she is still in the Factory 24/7, probably the only way she can drown out the whining

Good post?

[Ski_Goong]

It is very hard for the average Thai to increase their income so what I try to do is get them to lower their expenses. For those I try to help, I show them how they can have more money just by cutting out some vices. If they drink-I tell them drink less or stop. If they smoke...same. Gamble? Yup...same.

Most poor Thais do not know how much they actually spend on their vices. Once I show them how much they spend per year, some are willing to stop or at least decrease their spending. For those who are unwilling to change, there is no hope/help for them.

Once they stop doing those stupid things, they will have more time/money to find/fund their next business idea. It could be as simple as growing mushrooms (which are selling like crazy right now) or buying basic equipment that will allow them to produce more of what they already have.

Most Thais in my village ask me why I don't build a big house, drive a fancy car, have the best mobile phone, drink like a horse, smoke all day, have any mai noi.....I always tell them "I don't need it".

Ski and Goong....

[Heng]

A lot, but not all of 'getting into poverty' result from generations of poor decisions... it should be expected (or at least, one shouldn't have unrealistic expectations) that sometimes it takes a generation or more to get out of poverty.

Also, baby steps... it's all relative. You can't expect to go from a tin shack to a Nawatanee compound/estate in a few or several years. Tin shack to tin shack with working water tap is much more realistic.

Edited September 18, 2007 by Heng

[solo siam]

It is very hard for the average Thai to increase their income so what I try to do is get them to lower their expenses. For those I try to help, I show them how they can have more money just by cutting out some vices. If they drink-I tell them drink less or stop. If they smoke...same. Gamble? Yup...same.

Most poor Thais do not know how much they actually spend on their vices. Once I show them how much they spend per year, some are willing to stop or at least decrease their spending. For those who are unwilling to change, there is no hope/help for them.

Once they stop doing those stupid things, they will have more time/money to find/fund their next business idea. It could be as simple as growing mushrooms (which are selling like crazy right now) or buying basic equipment that will allow them to produce more of what they already have.

Most Thais in my village ask me why I don't build a big house, drive a fancy car, have the best mobile phone, drink like a horse, smoke all day, have any mai noi.....I always tell them "I don't need it".

Ski and Goong....

So people can have a little bit more money in exchange for never having any fun again.

shouldnt your last sentance read...

Most Thais in my village ask me why I don't build a big house, drive a fancy car, have the best mobile phone, drink like a horse, smoke all day, have any mai noi.....I always tell them "I can't afford it"

[Daewoo]

My experience is that Thai's generally have no where near the work ethic of the Chinese. I was at Uni with a Thai girl whose parents were paying for her to study an MBA at a good Australian University. They can't have been loaded, because she had to work as a waitress in a local Thai restaurant (at less than minimum wage, Thai's helping Thai's ).

I told her that working in a Thai restaurant won't help her get a job when she gets back to Thailand and offered to line her up a good role, with the Australian office of a Multinational that runs Asia-Pac (including Australia) out of Bangkok.

After months of trying to get her to prepare the basis of some sort of resume for me to help her with, I gave up. No Chinese would have let that opportunity go. There was no ulterior motive on my behalf, she was ugly (amazing for a Thai) and I am married, I just wanted to help and believed that I could.

Some Thai's do have a great work ethic, but not the skills and intelligence to turn that into a great return. Look at the food vendors lining the streets into the early hours of the morning... great work ethic, but in a business that is designed to keep the customer rich, not the vendor...

From true poverty, the only way forward to my mind, is to focus on the children, push them to do well when there is free schooling, use the monks to try and find them a scholarship/sponsor to High School and University, pressure them to get the highest marks, then use them to buy your way out of poverty.

Unfortunately, with Thais it does seem like a lot of the time, the family work the other way around, like an anchor keeping the children from achieving even if they truly wanted to.

just my 2c,

Daewoo

[solo siam]

Actually the really good street vendors make quite a bit of money, 30,000 Baht + which is probably more than the local Bank Manager.

[Edonista]

A cynic might suggest marrying a farang as a way out of material-poverty !

I would agree with the earlier poster who said that working for somebody else is never going to make you rich, however it IS an excellent way of gaining training & experience, while slowly saving the small amount of capital that you will need, when you eventually do start your own business. That's how I did it myself !

Things to avoid :-

1) Wasting your life watching TV-soaps & game-shows.

2) Smoking or drinking, until you are rich enough, to afford them.

3) Marrying too young - hormones keep poor people in poverty !

4) Believing everything said by poo-yais or government.

5) Buying lottery-tickets, too unsure a way to riches, and it reduces your savings.

Any other suggestions ?

Avoid wasting time and money reading and posting on ThaiVisa ?

[canadiangirl]

* double post

Edited September 18, 2007 by canadiangirl

[canadiangirl]

I can think of a few things someone can do to rise out of poverty, some of them more controversial than others:

Without an education, your best bet is to start a small business. Hopefully, something you can start with a tiny amount of capital, reinvest the small profits into the business, etc. But it takes a certain amount of business sense to do well at this, which not everyone, rich or poor, has. Plus, looking at the current focus on micro-credit as a development tool, it can't that easy for a poor person to put their hands on even small amounts of start-up capital -- given how many of them need to borrow from micro-credit places.

You can also put your hope in the next generation -- which is the immigrant solution. Go somewhere rich, work crap jobs, and give your children the best education possible. Get them to go to the university in the "money" professions: engineerin, cs, medicine, law, accounting, etc. Could also be done within Thailand itself, I think, but it might be a harder to get a good education.

But honestly, all of these are really, really difficult. I really applaud people who have posted inspiring stories about rising from poverty.

Here is my controversial suggestion:

If I was poor, beautiful, and a little bit ruthless (I am in no way suggesting this for your relative, BTW) in Thailand, the quickest path out of poverty is through prostitution.

Aim for rich old men, not too ugly but not too good-looking, jai dee, who will be grateful for the attention, generous, and easy to please. Get men to fall in love with you, and take you out of the bars. Aim to be a pampered mistress instead of a bar girl. The key isn't to get married -- men are fickle -- it's to get assets. Get gold, jewelry, land, houses -- tangible things, and SAVE them. Don't blow all your cash. Stay healthy. Plan for retirement so that you accumulate enough capital to start a business or retire at 30 or 35 or whenever you get too old or too sick of the trade.

And why not? Get successful men as customers and learn from them. Men love showing off their success to women, and they love appearing knowledgeable in our eyes. Learn English, learn Japanese, learn German.

Strangely enough, that seems to be what a lot of women are doing already.

[Edonista]

I do ocassionally come into contact with retardeds so I am a little patient nowadays. "Mai ben'rai"

Let me simplify things.

Let's say there are a 100 men who lived all their lives in a jungle and have never come in contact with modern technology.

And there are also a 100 men from the western civilized world. They all know 5000 miles away off a certain direction there lays paradise and all started heading towards it. They have nothing at all at the begining. They all started walking at a same pace. After about 200 miles they saw 100 bicycles. Some of those jungle men could have got onto some of those bikes but they just didn't know <deleted> those things were. Then they saw those 100 civilized men riding the bikes and went really fast and vanished. Jungle men then say to themselves "shit! we should have used those things! We shall use them if we ever see any on our way!"

At the 2000 mile mark, the civilized saw 100 cars, they then put down the bikes and started driving. A long time later the jungle men arrived and saw the bikes. They start to use them. Some managed to learn. Some didn't and they gave up and carried on walking.(yes these are the ones you guys call lazy and has so-called chosen not to learn I guess )

At the 3000 mile mark, the civilized saw 100 planes so they get off the cars and got on the planes. Those who don't know how to fly got on to the planes of those who do.(I guess these are like the ones in the west who receives public assistance).

Well, let me see. Hey where the he11 are those jungle men? I hardly even remember their existence! Oh yes some are still walking and some seemed to have made it to the 2000 mile mark on their bikes and saw the cars. This time they seemed to have learned a bit that something circular underneath an object might help them. Hey they learn fast, don't they!(of course again someone here is not going to appreciate it! ) Some of them finally managed to drive the cars but some didn't and kept on riding the bikes.

So now we have some still walking, some biking, some driving, but those on the planes are in paradise already!

OK by the time they reach the planes, some tried and killed themselves, maybe some managed to fly?

In the end, a lot died on their way, some did finally make it but by the time they were in paradise they were already old enough to die.

In real life things are much more complicated but are more or less the same.

For those dreamers who say "educate yourselves, better yourselves, blah blah blan....", you still owe me the answer!

What is STEP ONE for my sister in law? Please note she works from 8am to 10pm just to stay alive!

I swear I will tell her about the answer!

Sorry for the long clumsy post but please accept that there indeed are different degree of intelligence within human beings in real life.

If she is beautiful: learn how to give head, move to Pattaya, look for wealthy farang(s)

If she is not beautiful better she jumps off the balcony.

[Edonista]

I can think of a few things someone can do to rise out of poverty, some of them more controversial than others:

Without an education, your best bet is to start a small business. Hopefully, something you can start with a tiny amount of capital, reinvest the small profits into the business, etc. But it takes a certain amount of business sense to do well at this, which not everyone, rich or poor, has. Plus, looking at the current focus on micro-credit as a development tool, it can't that easy for a poor person to put their hands on even small amounts of start-up capital -- given how many of them need to borrow from micro-credit places.

You can also put your hope in the next generation -- which is the immigrant solution. Go somewhere rich, work crap jobs, and give your children the best education possible. Get them to go to the university in the "money" professions: engineerin, cs, medicine, law, accounting, etc. Could also be done within Thailand itself, I think, but it might be a harder to get a good education.

But honestly, all of these are really, really difficult. I really applaud people who have posted inspiring stories about rising from poverty.

Here is my controversial suggestion:

If I was poor, beautiful, and a little bit ruthless (I am in no way suggesting this for your relative, BTW) in Thailand, the quickest path out of poverty is through prostitution.

Aim for rich old men, not too ugly but not too good-looking, jai dee, who will be grateful for the attention, generous, and easy to please. Get men to fall in love with you, and take you out of the bars. Aim to be a pampered mistress instead of a bar girl. The key isn't to get married -- men are fickle -- it's to get assets. Get gold, jewelry, land, houses -- tangible things, and SAVE them. Don't blow all your cash. Stay healthy. Plan for retirement so that you accumulate enough capital to start a business or retire at 30 or 35 or whenever you get too old or too sick of the trade.

And why not? Get successful men as customers and learn from them. Men love showing off their success to women, and they love appearing knowledgeable in our eyes. Learn English, learn Japanese, learn German.

Strangely enough, that seems to be what a lot of women are doing already.

I would rather say, obviously enough ...and not only poor Thai girls from Isaan

[Edonista]

Here is my controversial suggestion:

If I was poor, beautiful, and a little bit ruthless (I am in no way suggesting this for your relative, BTW) in Thailand, the quickest path out of poverty is through prostitution.

Aim for rich old men, not too ugly but not too good-looking, jai dee, who will be grateful for the attention, generous, and easy to please. Get men to fall in love with you, and take you out of the bars. Aim to be a pampered mistress instead of a bar girl. The key isn't to get married -- men are fickle -- it's to get assets. Get gold, jewelry, land, houses -- tangible things, and SAVE them. Don't blow all your cash. Stay healthy. Plan for retirement so that you accumulate enough capital to start a business or retire at 30 or 35 or whenever you get too old or too sick of the trade.

May I remark that marriage is actually the easier way to get assets ?

[bkkmadness]

If she is beautiful: learn how to give head, move to Pattaya, look for wealthy farang(s)

If she is not beautiful better she jumps off the balcony.

Reality is if a girl is truly beautiful then she can pick up a wealthy Asian, if she is not beautiful then she can go down to Pattaya to look for a wealthy farang. That's often how it works.

[canadiangirl]

Here is my controversial suggestion:

If I was poor, beautiful, and a little bit ruthless (I am in no way suggesting this for your relative, BTW) in Thailand, the quickest path out of poverty is through prostitution.

Aim for rich old men, not too ugly but not too good-looking, jai dee, who will be grateful for the attention, generous, and easy to please. Get men to fall in love with you, and take you out of the bars. Aim to be a pampered mistress instead of a bar girl. The key isn't to get married -- men are fickle -- it's to get assets. Get gold, jewelry, land, houses -- tangible things, and SAVE them. Don't blow all your cash. Stay healthy. Plan for retirement so that you accumulate enough capital to start a business or retire at 30 or 35 or whenever you get too old or too sick of the trade.

May I remark that marriage is actually the easier way to get assets ?

Yeah, but then you have to be married to some boring old guy and you don't have your independance. Much better (in the context of this plan ) to take the old guy's money and marry someone your own age (which is, again, not uncommon). Plus, unless the guy is so old he'll die in the next 20 years, I'd worry about marrying someone who likes women half his age -- what keeps him from trading you for the younger model when you get older too?

BTW, I'm not trying to reopen that tedious old farang/young thai thread.

This is also not my strategy for my own life, nor I am suggesting this to anyone -- I'm just saying that if you were born with the cards stacked against you -- you have to be a bit merciless to get ahead in the face of those odds.

[jts-khorat]

Learn English, learn Japanese, learn German.

What an insightful post, this one from a girl, as diametrically opposite from a male egotist like me could possibly be

Going through two complete threads, one of them over 250 posts, just to get the absolute same answer than you got at post #1; amazing, meemiathia that you can STILL resist to simply listen instead of babbling on and on and on...

[meemiathai]

My experience is that Thai's generally have no where near the work ethic of the Chinese. I was at Uni with a Thai girl whose parents were paying for her to study an MBA at a good Australian University. They can't have been loaded, because she had to work as a waitress in a local Thai restaurant (at less than minimum wage, Thai's helping Thai's ).

I told her that working in a Thai restaurant won't help her get a job when she gets back to Thailand and offered to line her up a good role, with the Australian office of a Multinational that runs Asia-Pac (including Australia) out of Bangkok.

After months of trying to get her to prepare the basis of some sort of resume for me to help her with, I gave up. No Chinese would have let that opportunity go. There was no ulterior motive on my behalf, she was ugly (amazing for a Thai) and I am married, I just wanted to help and believed that I could.

Some Thai's do have a great work ethic, but not the skills and intelligence to turn that into a great return. Look at the food vendors lining the streets into the early hours of the morning... great work ethic, but in a business that is designed to keep the customer rich, not the vendor...

From true poverty, the only way forward to my mind, is to focus on the children, push them to do well when there is free schooling, use the monks to try and find them a scholarship/sponsor to High School and University, pressure them to get the highest marks, then use them to buy your way out of poverty.

Unfortunately, with Thais it does seem like a lot of the time, the family work the other way around, like an anchor keeping the children from achieving even if they truly wanted to.

just my 2c,

Daewoo

Have you heard of China? I live there. And let me tell you that you are wrong. It has got nothing to do with being Chinese or Thai.

[meemiathai]

Actually the really good street vendors make quite a bit of money, 30,000 Baht + which is probably more than the local Bank Manager.

Let's just imagine the whole population of Isaan coming to BKK to become street vendors! Still 30,000 baht?

[JimmieBlonde]

Copy a model that works, education education education, get a good job, set up a small business part time, if you don't have entrepreneur talent, get more education and a better job, work harder, sweat and sweat some more but only if the returns increase.

Use you wage to gain a good credit rating, don't blow it on a new car, if you need a car get a second hand one. Find a nitch you can fill.

I work in rural Isaan, I see a lot of very entrepreneurs there, who often fail because of lack of business knowledge, how to value products.

Just recently a family wanted to buy a new 20 000 baht display fridge. Then went to a hyper market 50kms away, fill the fridge with cheap soft drinks the locals like in the little village, too bad 5 other shops doing the same, and mark up each drink 2 baht.

How many will you sell a day I asked?

10 - 20 a day,

OK - 20 x 2 = 40 Baht a day. Is that good money

YEs - we sell many other things, so just from cold drinks, good money.

20 000 divided by 40 = 500 days you need to sell drinks before you pay for the fridge, let alone electricity, transport, etc.

Suddenly they didn't think such a good idea.

They WANT to be entrepreneurs, they don't have training, education, skill sets.

Chinese families have generations of trading in them, thats very valuable skills, Thais have rice grower, to make the leap to being a business owner is hard. Not impossible.

Not for everyone, but stop this culture of "Buying Luck" by continually donating to the Wats, start spending money on education for kids instead of a new pick up. You don't need a new house, does the buffaloe DO anything?

Young boy I know, went to college, learnt to fix TV's/DVD's, built a good business doing it, now moved to a larger village, TV antenna's old repaired mobile phones, still doesn't own a car, works holidays,

Another boy fixes a the machines, learnt to weld, repairs blades on small tractors,

They exist, they just need a mentoring hand up.

[jts-khorat]

Have you heard of China? I live there. And let me tell you that you are wrong. It has got nothing to do with being Chinese or Thai.

Naysayer, naysayer.

We were obviously not talking about the 1.6 billion who got stuck in China but about Chinese Thais who are clever enough as a group to have completely taken the economy of this country in their own hands in a mere 2 1/2 generations.

But we heard already, reading is not one of the skills you think is humanly possible to master easily (or was that learning how to cook noodles?). Must concentrate more on what is written here, I guess