Stolen Passport Overstayed Visa

[green36]

Hi all, please can you assist me with a freind of mine's BIG problem. Well in basic his passport was stolen in Pattaya (I won't go into these details) , the stolen passport was reported to the police but since then his original visa expired. He has not approached his embassy about the matter yet because is not shure how immigration is going to act on the overstay and if he should actualy mention it to him after he gets a new passport. Please help

[lopburi3]

Has he obtained a new passport or not? If he has not that is the first step. His second step would/should have been a visit to immigration to update his new passport as that is going to be required prior to any exit. If he has just ignored the problem (as it sounds) he may well be running up overstay charges so should take care of it asap.

[dr_Pat_Pong]

Has he obtained a new passport or not? If he has not that is the first step. His second step would/should have been a visit to immigration to update his new passport as that is going to be required prior to any exit. If he has not ignored the problem (as it sounds) he may well be running up overstay charges so should take care of it asap.

That's a certainty Lop.

[green36]

Thanks for the info, no he has not obtained a new passport yet but intends to do so shortly. I think his main question is, Should he be truethful with immigration when he has obtained a new passport about the overstay, as the new passport will have no record.

[taxexile]

dont lie to immigration.

they have records , they will know exactly when your visa expired.

[cali4995]

They definitely have records. I went for an extension a few months back,

forgot a copy of something or other and had to run to the shop outside. Well,

the immigration guy had 5 minutes to play with the computer and he started

asking me questions about a passport I had replaced 3 years ago.

My replacement passport even had a different number. I've always thought

these guys flipping passports were playing Russian roulette because the system

must be indexed by full names and birth dates. They just don't normally delve

that far into the database. If found out, I suspect you'd head straight for the

I.D.C., your pleas for mercy unheeded.

[colino]

all i know is that when i lost my departure card i popped in to immigration and it took the women about 2mins to get the card number and give me a new one with the old number (so it would match my arrival card ) dont mess with immigration it will only cause your mate loads of hassle and time

[moonhunt]

Thanks for the info, no he has not obtained a new passport yet but intends to do so shortly. I think his main question is, Should he be truethful with immigration when he has obtained a new passport about the overstay, as the new passport will have no record.

Hi green36,

Don't forget that we are living in computer ages.

Even though he lost passport, and immigration can not see that paper passport again, they have his records in the system.

With name and nationality, they may give the warning, which will bring immigration officer's attention immediately.

I think your friend needs to proceed to get new passport/travel document ASAP, and after getting it, he needs to stop by local immigration.

He may have to pay the fine for overstay.

But with police report shown passport lost, and new passport, he may get some excuse.

[kurtgruen]

I also know a guy who might be having similar problems... No passport, long overstay. He wants to get it all straightened out. First of all, is it easy to get a new passport for someone who has lost pretty much all his idea? (Canadian). Once he has his passport, I know that we can take him to the airport and get him to pay his 20000 Baht overstay and send him home, but he needs to get his passport. Any other Canadians have experience with this?

[gzu88bv]

I also know a guy who might be having similar problems... No passport, long overstay. He wants to get it all straightened out. First of all, is it easy to get a new passport for someone who has lost pretty much all his idea? (Canadian). Once he has his passport, I know that we can take him to the airport and get him to pay his 20000 Baht overstay and send him home, but he needs to get his passport. Any other Canadians have experience with this?

I do not know how to interpret all this (stolen passport, long overstay, wants to get it straightened out, needs to get a passport, etc. etc.), but I would stay with the facts, get a new passport at my embassy here in Bangkok, buy a ticket, run for the exit (Suvarnabhumi), pay the dues and head westwards to get a new visa. Even in Thailand the problem does not get solved by itself.

[naka]

Thanks for the info, no he has not obtained a new passport yet but intends to do so shortly. I think his main question is, Should he be truethful with immigration when he has obtained a new passport about the overstay, as the new passport will have no record.

Should he be truthful to Immigration ? Bejeezus, you said he has reported it to the Police.

Arrghhhh !

Naka.

[cali4995]

KurtGruen, It really isn't that simple. In the event of theft of passport

you need to 1st get a Thai police report. This is dated. You really can't

sit on your hands here. Then off to your respective embassy to get the

replacement passport. You will need some form of indentity proof, copy

of original passport, driver's license, birth certificate, you need something.

You cannot proceed directly to the airport. A trip must be made to Suan

Phlu immigration in Bangkok to replace the original entry stamp. As you

can surmise, for people on lengthy overstay this can create some anxiety.

You will need to show a flight ticket to your home country, you will need

to pay 20k baht. Whether or not you will be detained and held in the I.D.C.

(immigration detention center) is entirely up to the discretion of the officers

you are dealing with. Retaining legal representation is often recommended.

Sunbelt offers a service to assist for a very reasonable fee. It's just not as

simple as skipping over to the airport and telling them you want to leave.

[Badbanker]

KurtGruen, It really isn't that simple. In the event of theft of passport

you need to 1st get a Thai police report. This is dated. You really can't

sit on your hands here. Then off to your respective embassy to get the

replacement passport. You will need some form of indentity proof, copy

of original passport, driver's license, birth certificate, you need something.

You cannot proceed directly to the airport. A trip must be made to Suan

Phlu immigration in Bangkok to replace the original entry stamp. As you

can surmise, for people on lengthy overstay this can create some anxiety.

You will need to show a flight ticket to your home country, you will need

to pay 20k baht. Whether or not you will be detained and held in the I.D.C.

(immigration detention center) is entirely up to the discretion of the officers

you are dealing with. Retaining legal representation is often recommended.

Sunbelt offers a service to assist for a very reasonable fee. It's just not as

simple as skipping over to the airport and telling them you want to leave.

I have worked with the IDC for some time now and released 3 people this year.   

I agree totally with what you have said above!   It is not just a matter of getting your new passport and running for the airport with ticket and cash!

If it is a long over stay over the 40 days x 500 baht you MUST have legal representation or you WILL go into the Immigration Detention Center for some male bonding while they check on if you have any other legal case pending. There is a still a good chance you will anyway!

You have BROKEN the law! Get a hold of it!

Rationale is that if you break the law this much, by overstaying this much, what else have you done that we don't know about but should?

Plan it very very carefully before you go or I guarantee you will have some sweaty male bonding in store.

Badbanker

PS If you want a more detailed proceedure PM me!

Edited September 24, 2007 by Badbanker

[torrenova]

I am not advocating this in any way but if someone had say a 2 year overstay, would one solution be to just get to a different country like Singapore, Malaysia etc. ?

[cali4995]

Torrenova, If you did that, then you would have broken the immigration

laws in two countries. Overstaying visa 1st country,entering illegally 2nd.

As BadBanker has immediate experience in this area, some of the points

he made are really worth paying attention to. In this rather unforgiving

time we are in, the tolerance factor is getting pretty low for farangs.

You have to anticipate what questions they will ask. If you are over this

40 day X 500 baht =20k baht figure they are going to want to know why?

Then they are going to start wondering what other laws you have broken?

The reason you may be held while they perform some checks on you.

BadBanker's graciously offering to share what he knows firsthand, so PM

and get started because I fear there are at least a few in this situation.

[raybkk]

Hi all, please can you assist me with a freind of mine's BIG problem. Well in basic his passport was stolen in Pattaya (I won't go into these details) , the stolen passport was reported to the police but since then his original visa expired. He has not approached his embassy about the matter yet because is not shure how immigration is going to act on the overstay and if he should actualy mention it to him after he gets a new passport. Please help

Further will the embassy write this in his new passport: "This passport has been issued to replace passport number: xxxxxxxxxxxx"

Immigration will go with that number to track data.

[LivinLOS]

They definitely have records. I went for an extension a few months back,

forgot a copy of something or other and had to run to the shop outside. Well,

the immigration guy had 5 minutes to play with the computer and he started

asking me questions about a passport I had replaced 3 years ago.

My replacement passport even had a different number. I've always thought

these guys flipping passports were playing Russian roulette because the system

must be indexed by full names and birth dates. They just don't normally delve

that far into the database. If found out, I suspect you'd head straight for the

I.D.C., your pleas for mercy unheeded.

For about the 100th time..

There is nothing illegal about flipping your passports.. It is a commonplace occurance and 100% normal and legitimate to travel on multiple travel documents.

Why this seems to baffle and amaze single passport holders is amusing to me..

Any time an immigration officer asked about my transit history.. I would just explain 'I used one of my other passports'.. End of problem.

[LivinLOS]

KurtGruen, It really isn't that simple. In the event of theft of passport

you need to 1st get a Thai police report. This is dated. You really can't

sit on your hands here. Then off to your respective embassy to get the

replacement passport. You will need some form of indentity proof, copy

of original passport, driver's license, birth certificate, you need something.

You cannot proceed directly to the airport. A trip must be made to Suan

Phlu immigration in Bangkok to replace the original entry stamp. As you

can surmise, for people on lengthy overstay this can create some anxiety.

You will need to show a flight ticket to your home country, you will need

to pay 20k baht. Whether or not you will be detained and held in the I.D.C.

(immigration detention center) is entirely up to the discretion of the officers

you are dealing with. Retaining legal representation is often recommended.

Sunbelt offers a service to assist for a very reasonable fee. It's just not as

simple as skipping over to the airport and telling them you want to leave.

I have worked with the IDC for some time now and released 3 people this year.

I agree totally with what you have said above! It is not just a matter of getting your new passport and running for the airport with ticket and cash!

If it is a long over stay over the 40 days x 500 baht you MUST have legal representation or you WILL go into the Immigration Detention Center for some male bonding while they check on if you have any other legal case pending. There is a still a good chance you will anyway!

You have BROKEN the law! Get a hold of it!

Rationale is that if you break the law this much, by overstaying this much, what else have you done that we don't know about but should?

Plan it very very carefully before you go or I guarantee you will have some sweaty male bonding in store.

Badbanker

PS If you want a more detailed proceedure PM me!

Strange as I know multiple people (5+) that have had many months overstay and none went to IDC, they all paid 20k at the airport and left, most coming back the same day or after a short visa run.

One guy I know had 970 something days overstay !!! Paid his 20k.. Left the country and returned on the same passport.

I certainly wouldnt recommend it.. But I dispute your 40 day and visit the IDC system comment.

Edited September 25, 2007 by LivinLOS

[kurtgruen]

Strange as I know multiple people (5+) that have had many months overstay and none went to IDC, they all paid 20k at the airport and left, most coming back the same day or after a short visa run.

One guy I know had 970 something days overstay !!! Paid his 20k.. Left the country and returned on the same passport.

I certainly wouldnt recommend it.. But I dispute your 40 day and visit the IDC system comment.

same here, I had a buddy from Germany and we just got him to the airport with a ticket and 20000, he paid his 20000 Baht for four years of overstay and no problems returning for him.

The problem I am looking at is this new guy not having a Valid Canadian Passport anymore. Not sure how he lost it, but I know there was no police report...so my question is...

The Canadian Embassy requiring a police report to replace a lost or stolen passport, how can he get one, when he is on overstay? They will probably want to arrest him as soon as he shows at the police station? Or maybe not, since they are not immigration? Any success stories or suggestion would be greatly appreciated. Private message o.k., too ;-)

[Crossy]

There is nothing illegal about flipping your passports.. It is a commonplace occurance and 100% normal and legitimate to travel on multiple travel documents.

Why this seems to baffle and amaze single passport holders is amusing to me..

Any time an immigration officer asked about my transit history.. I would just explain 'I used one of my other passports'.. End of problem.

Yep I do it too (two British passports)

I would note however that using multiple passports to circumvent the 30 day visa-waiver restrictions is certainly against the spirit of the law and is probably illegal. Quite likely to get caught out.

Our OP should have no problem getting a police report, after all they aren't going to know he's on overstay. Got to get his new PP before doing anything else, then it's off to immigration with his best clothes on, 30k in his pocket and his lawyer at his side.

Edited September 25, 2007 by Crossy

[seppl04]

Strange as I know multiple people (5+) that have had many months overstay and none went to IDC, they all paid 20k at the airport and left, most coming back the same day or after a short visa run.

One guy I know had 970 something days overstay !!! Paid his 20k.. Left the country and returned on the same passport.

I certainly wouldnt recommend it.. But I dispute your 40 day and visit the IDC system comment.

same here, I had a buddy from Germany and we just got him to the airport with a ticket and 20000, he paid his 20000 Baht for four years of overstay and no problems returning for him.

The problem I am looking at is this new guy not having a Valid Canadian Passport anymore. Not sure how he lost it, but I know there was no police report...so my question is...

The Canadian Embassy requiring a police report to replace a lost or stolen passport, how can he get one, when he is on overstay? They will probably want to arrest him as soon as he shows at the police station? Or maybe not, since they are not immigration? Any success stories or suggestion would be greatly appreciated. Private message o.k., too ;-)

he should contact the embassy and ask what is needed to get a new passport.

they will tell him anyway to get a police report.

get that report then. It is pure formality ! Just tell them that you needed the passport yesterday and cannot find it. Possibly lost !!

with this report go to embassy and get a new passport

when holding the new passport, the embassy staff tells you what to do next

Did it in the past and worked fine !!

Concerning overstay:

1. it is difficult to say and definitely no certain rules

2. I have friends who overstayed years and no passport. the did above and went to the next airport and all worked out fine

3. I also have friends where it didn't work out fine (especially in Bkk)

4. Maybe get to a smaller Checkpoint crossing by road, but be aware they have computers as well, so you cannot skip the 20k, but normally less questions asked as personnel is less stressed and still have a smile on their faces

5. also it might help if you or someone you know knows a guy at Immigration

6. and make sure next time he doesn't overstay !! there is no legal reason to overstay that long and no legal reason to get a proper visa

[cali4995]

KurtGruen, the important distinction when on overstay is whether you

still have your original passport or not. If you do, then you can proceed

directly to the airport. If you don't, then everything changes. You must

go to Suan Phlu immigration to get the original entry stamp replaced. I

don't dispute badbankers observations because I know he goes to the

I.D.C. regularly to try and assist people. Believe what you want.

The regular police are generally not interested in your visa history. I

once took a friend to get a report. 5 minutes, no questions asked other

than the specifics relating to their lost/stolen items. Really, I would be

happy if a few more of these guys would "settle up at the bar". Their

are a few too many lurking about on multi-year overstay. I also have

to agree with crossy's comments, against the spirit of the law.

[torrenova]

Torrenova, If you did that, then you would have broken the immigration

laws in two countries. Overstaying visa 1st country,entering illegally 2nd.

As BadBanker has immediate experience in this area, some of the points

he made are really worth paying attention to. In this rather unforgiving

time we are in, the tolerance factor is getting pretty low for farangs.

You have to anticipate what questions they will ask. If you are over this

40 day X 500 baht =20k baht figure they are going to want to know why?

Then they are going to start wondering what other laws you have broken?

The reason you may be held while they perform some checks on you.

BadBanker's graciously offering to share what he knows firsthand, so PM

and get started because I fear there are at least a few in this situation.

Sorry, I think you have picked up wrongly that I have visa problems ? Apologies if I misled you, though I do not see how.

Th OP raised the quesion but my last comment was in relation to a situation where someone was highly likely going to be sent to the IDC. Now if that person, got out of Thailand and presented themselves at the British Embassy in say, Singapore, then they would only have Singapore to deal with. The British Embassy is not going to trawl them back through Malaysia to Thailand to answer overstay questions there are they ?

The only law they would have broken in Singapore would be entering without reporting at a border. They could even say they came on a boat and the pilot or captain forgot to register their arrival (I have had this done to me in europe) and now they have lost their passport. Not an agreeable scenario but perhaps better than ending up in the IDC especially if there are no funds to pay his way out or there is some clampdown going on etc.

To be honest, anyone overstaying at all has to be a little silly and in these times, overstaying past the 40 day, 20k maximum is ludicrous.

My suggestions are pragmatic because knowing the options and the answers to the likely questions may make one feel that the "preferred" option is nothing of the sort and other, more drastic measures must be considered. Very easy for us on the legal side of the immigration law to judge and offer advice knowing that we do not have to face the consequences if things do not go according to plan.

[cali4995]

Torrenova, I didn't pick that up at all. I meant in general if "someone" left

Thailand without resolving their overstay and then entered a 2nd country.

You posed your question as a hypothetical and it was answered thusly.

Overstaying happens to all manner of people. Some of them perhaps victims

of crime themselves who are momentarily unable to recover. Others I think

are choosing to live off the radar for whatever reason. It's useful for those

trying to clear it up to have some relevant facts. I see that time is over.

[Badbanker]

Let me clarify something. When you lose a passport you can get a new one at your embassy if you have the correct documentation. No they will not write in your passport that this passport replaces passport xxxxx. They will give you a standard format letter that you must present to immigration on embassy letterhead, explaining your situation and that you previously travelled on passport xxxxx which was lost and is now expired and is now replaced by this new passport. You must present this to immigration or they will not stamp you over into the new passport.

I agree with Crossy in this:

"Our OP should have no problem getting a police report, after all they aren't going to know he's on overstay. Got to get his new PP before doing anything else, then it's off to immigration with his best clothes on, 30k in his pocket and his lawyer at his side."

The complexity comes in that he has to change the stamp and get a new one at immigration somewhere. This is where the opportunity for male bonding in the IDC does become a reality! I have seen it on several occasions a very abusive well dressed farang being welcomed into the IDC making a lot of noise and saying to me that he has the money and a ticket and everything but they won't let him get on the plane to go to Singapore. Reason was that the Immigration Police said they wanted to check on "other cases" that you be wanted in regards to.

Road exit options are not on and once you get into the IDC system you will have to return by air to your country of origin.

The Immigration Police DO want to know more about you and the lawyer and or infuential person with you will make it safer for you to leave quickly as you have planned.

I also have 2 passports and as some have said, flip them at will.  I lost the one I was stamped in on and tried to leave on the other and this was a major major issue that meant me missing a very important court date in the UK.   I had to a new temporary one issued!

Oh if you do leave the country illegally and get to Singapore and get stamped into Singapore they will want to know last port of exit and whu you have not been stamped out. (Been there done that)

Remember that the next time you come back to Thailand and they enter your name into the computer they WILL find you are still in the country and will want to know what happened! This will cause some serious problems and could end up getting you black banned as in these days of post 9/11, illegal exit is a fairly serious issue.

BB

Edited September 26, 2007 by Badbanker

[Crossy]

Let me clarify something. When you lose a passport you can get a new one at your embassy if you have the correct documentation. No they will not write in your passport that this passport replaces passport xxxxx.

Actually it depends upon the embassy. The Brtish Embassy in Rome marked mine on the notes page "This passport replaces passport number xxxxxx reported stolen". Not that it really matters.

[pascharay]

Simple

Two options

Ignore the problem and overstay or get a new passport.

First you can remain in thailand. No problems until you want to leave or get caught and deported as a persona non grata.

and the fun stops as soon as they slap on the cuffs.

Report your passport as lost not stolen.

Get a new passport.

Figure out your departure tactic, legal or illegal

It's going to cost 20k at least. Don't compound it by trying to be clever. not much of an option as the curcumstances of how the original was lost sounds like a testament to stupidity.

[kurtgruen]

Hi everyone,

Thank you all for your quick responses. It was nice to see all the different views and input. I think my friend now has a clear picture of what he needs to do and will proceed in a legal way to get his affairs in order.

I just wanted to clarify, to anyone who is wondering, I was talking about a friend, not myself. I have a perfectly valid Non-Immigrant visa and overstay is not one of the things I would ever want to try personally.

I enjoy my trips to the border every three month. (Looks like it may not be the Burmese border anymore, but I'll figure that out when the time comes ;-))

Again thanks. You have all been very helpful.

[sniffdog]

================================================================================

====

as the new passport will have no record.

================================================================================

====

555! You're sure he lost it by accident? Or did he really think his tracks were lost?

[jstumbo]

Yep I do it too (two British passports)

Two British Passports? Is that legal? I never heard of a country that alows you to have more than one passport. Sure you can have passports from multiple countries, but two from the same country?

As for this guys problem. Sure if he showed up at the airport, he would probably just pay the 20K and leave. Problem is that he does not have a passport, then when he gets the passport, he does not have an entry stamp. He has to deal with all these before he gets to the airport. And that is where he is going to wind up in trouble, when he tries to get the entry stamp from immigration.