Thai Months, The "lazy" Way.

[coalminer]

Hi,

Yesterday, while speaking with my neighbors, I heard them referring to the next month as "aan 7".

When asking why they were not using the names of the months but using a numerical for every month, the explanation was that "many Thai people have difficulty with remembering the names of the Thai months".

Apperently, the first month is Songkhran month or April.

Does anybody has more information on this type of naming the Thai months?

TIA,

Coalminer

[Murf]

I'm lazy too... i usually say "month" then the number.

eg.

เดือน 1 - Jan

But i always work Jan as the 1st month... works fine for me

[sbk]

My understanding is that they are usually referring to the old lunar calendar.

[DavidHouston]

"Special Professor" Jamnong Thongprasert has authored a set of Thai books called (in translation) "Thai Language in Five Minutes" or perhaps "Five Minutes of Thai Language" ("ภาษาไทย ๕ นาที"). The first volume was published in BE 2534 or 1991; the most current volume, I believe, is volume 7 published in 2006. The books constitute a set of essays on various words and topics on Thai language which most Thai people can read in five minutes each. For me, it takes considerably longer; and, I need to use one or more dictionaries. On page 94 of volume 1 begins a two page essay entitled "อาธิกมาส" which seems to be the Thai word for the additional month in a lunar leap year within the system called "จันทรคติ", [ which I believe is pronounced "jan-ta-ra-ka-dti", despite Thai2 English's "jan-sók-dtì"] the lunar system or lunar calendar.

I read the essay once, and realize that I need to know more words. I have been trying for years to ignore lunar counting of the days and months and this would be a good time to jump in. In the event that anyone continues to be interested in this topic, I will report what the article says.

In direct answer to the posed question and the last answer above, the article says, in part, the first lunar month is called "เดือนอ้าย" [deuan âai], the second month, เดือนยี่ [deuan yêe] (which seems to be reminicent of the word "ยี่สิบ" or "twenty"; the dictionary says "ยี่" means "two"), for the third through the twelfth month, they are named "เดือน ๓", "month 3" through "เดือน ๑๒" "month 12".

อ้าย, by the way, according to the RID has two meanings, the first is, "คําประกอบคําอื่นบอกให้รู้ว่าเป็นเพศชายหรือสัตว์ตัวผู้", "a combining word that indicate [to the listener or reader] that [the object] is a male, either human or animal." The first meaning is "เรียกลูกชายคนที่ ๑ ว่า ลูกอ้าย", "the name given to the first born son." So, there must be a "first" imbedded in that word which is used in this context for the "first month."

This may help with the posed question, at least temporarily. If someone wants to expand on this topic before I finish, from "Thai in 5 Minutes" or elsewhere, please be my guest.

[sutnyod]

I'm lazy too... i usually say "month" then the number.

eg.

เดือน 1 - Jan

But i always work Jan as the 1st month... works fine for me

That never worked for me. I did the same as you, but when the Thais needed either their hands or a calendar to look up the month in question I gave in and learned the months. I usually work with farmers.

[coalminer]

"Special Professor" Jamnong Thongprasert has authored a set of Thai books called (in translation) "Thai Language in Five Minutes" or perhaps "Five Minutes of Thai Language" ("ภาษาไทย ๕ นาที"). The first volume was published in BE 2534 or 1991; the most current volume, I believe, is volume 7 published in 2006. The books constitute a set of essays on various words and topics on Thai language which most Thai people can read in five minutes each. For me, it takes considerably longer; and, I need to use one or more dictionaries. On page 94 of volume 1 begins a two page essay entitled "อาธิกมาส" which seems to be the Thai word for the additional month in a lunar leap year within the system called "จันทรคติ", [ which I believe is pronounced "jan-ta-ra-ka-dti", despite Thai2 English's "jan-sók-dtì"] the lunar system or lunar calendar.

I read the essay once, and realize that I need to know more words. I have been trying for years to ignore lunar counting of the days and months and this would be a good time to jump in. In the event that anyone continues to be interested in this topic, I will report what the article says.

In direct answer to the posed question and the last answer above, the article says, in part, the first lunar month is called "เดือนอ้าย" [deuan âai], the second month, เดือนยี่ [deuan yêe] (which seems to be reminicent of the word "ยี่สิบ" or "twenty"; the dictionary says "ยี่" means "two"), for the third through the twelfth month, they are named "เดือน ๓", "month 3" through "เดือน ๑๒" "month 12".

อ้าย, by the way, according to the RID has two meanings, the first is, "คําประกอบคําอื่นบอกให้รู้ว่าเป็นเพศชายหรือสัตว์ตัวผู้", "a combining word that indicate [to the listener or reader] that [the object] is a male, either human or animal." The first meaning is "เรียกลูกชายคนที่ ๑ ว่า ลูกอ้าย", "the name given to the first born son." So, there must be a "first" imbedded in that word which is used in this context for the "first month."

This may help with the posed question, at least temporarily. If someone wants to expand on this topic before I finish, from "Thai in 5 Minutes" or elsewhere, please be my guest.

Waaaaaaaaaaw,

I would never have guessed that there was so much information behind my question.

Anyway, thank you very much for your research, David.

I find it rather strange that this information is not added into the pinned thread about months.

In reply to the other posters who answerred in this thread, I asked randomly 10 persons in my neighborhood to name the 12 months in Thai, and 80% wasn't able to name them all!!!!!!!!

So, my thread should have been named: "Thai months, the dumb way".

BTW, as far as my knowledge about the Thai language goes (far less than David I admit), อ้าย (âai] is just another word for 1 and ยี่ is another word for 2.

A question to the readers of this topic, can anybody confrim/deny that "เดือนอ้าย" [deuan âai] is the month April?

Thanks,

[DavidHouston]

One more post from me on this subject. I have attached a file with more information about how Thais call days in the lunar cycle. A few vocabulary items:

ข้างขึ้น [kâang kêun] [N] waxing moon

ข้างแรม [kâang raem] [N] waning moon

A brief excerpt from http://www.lesa.in.th/space/phenomenon/moo.../moonphases.htm :

คนไทยแบ่งเดือนทางจันทรคติออกเป็น 30 วัน คือ วันขึ้น 1 ค่ำ - วันขึ้น 15 ค่ำ และ วันแรม 1 ค่ำ - วันแรม 15 ค่ำ โดยถือให้วันขึ้น 15 ค่ำ (ดวงจันทร์สว่างเต็มดวง), วันแรม 1 ค่ำ (ดวงจันทร์มืดทั้งดวง), วันแรม 8 ค่ำ และวันขึ้น 8 ค่ำ (ดวงจันทร์สว่างครึ่งดวง) เป็นวันพระ

'Thais partition the moon via the lunar calendar into 30 days. That is, "the first day of the waxing moon" through "the 15^th day of the waxing moon" and "the first day of the waning moon" through "the 15^th day of the waning moon." We [Thais] designate "the 15^th day of the waxing moon" ([the day of the full moon] when the full moon is illuminated), "the first day of the waning moon" (when the entire moon is dark), and "the 8^th day of the waning moon" and "the 8^th day of the waxing moon (when on both days the moon is half illuminated) as "holy days." '

Thank you for allowing me to share. Please post any corrections to the above or the attached.

MoonPhases.doc

[coalminer]

Hi David,

I just read this thread about the same question.

www.thailandqa.com/forum/showthread.php?t=13863&highlight=month+birth

It is far more interesting than I thaught.

Thanks again,

Coalminer

[DavidHouston]

From Wikipedia

_____________________________

The Thai New Year (Thai: สงกรานต์ Songkran) is celebrated every year on 13 April to 15 April. It is also celebrated in Laos (called pi mai lao or 'Lao New Year' in Lao), Cambodia, Myanmar (where it is called Thingyan), and by the Dai people in Yunnan, China. Sri Lanka also celebrates a similar festival called Sinhalese and Tamil New Year on the same dates.

The date of the festival was originally set by astrological calculation, but it is now fixed . If these days fall on a weekend, the missed days off will be taken on the days immediately following Songkran falls in the hottest time of the year in Thailand, at the end of the dry season. Until 1888 the Thai New Year was the beginning of the year in Thailand; thereafter 1 April was used until 1940. 1 January is now the beginning of the year. The traditional Thai New Year has been a national holiday since then.

______________________________

That cinches it!

[Acquiesce]

Interesting stuff.

[yoot]

A question to the readers of this topic, can anybody confrim/deny that "เดือนอ้าย" [deuan âai] is the month April?

The answer is NO.

"เดือนอ้าย", normally started around November or December. It might be easier for you to understand if I take Loy Kratong Day as an example. "เดือนอ้าย" will start 15 days after Loy Kratong Day. Because Loy Kratong Day is on the day which is the waxing moon of the twelfth month.

Edited September 23, 2007 by yoot

[Mobi]

Although I sort of get by in Thai pretty well, for some reason, Thai months are an annoying 'blind spot'. I can remember some months, and recognise others when they are spoken, but there's maybe 3 or 4 that just won't stick in my mind.

So I generally resort to using the month number, unless it's a month that I know. But almost invariably when I use the month number, the Thai person I am speaking to is confused, and is not sure which month I am referring to. Sometimes, they will even say a month number to me (as they know I don't understand the the Thai month names), and subsequently it transpires that they got it wrong!!

All good fun

[Golden Nugget]

Just suck it up and memorize them. It only took me 2 years, lol.

[sbk]

Duan Sip has a very big holiday in Surat Thani (not sure about other parts of the South) -- Dai Yai day (believe its the full moon at the end of the month) is a big day at the Wat when all families get together and exchange sweets with other extended family members. One of my absolute favorite local holidays, and almost always celebrated in August/September.

[DavidHouston]

One more post, if I may, on the subject of when the New Year occurs in the Thai lunar calendar. I made the mental error of assuming that New Years occurs on the first day of the first month. Not true, just as Yoot told us. Here is an additional section from pages 94 and 95 of Volume One of "Five Minutes of Thai Language".

_________________________________

เดือนอ้ายตกประมาณเดือนธันวาคมหรือเดือนมกราม เดิมทีเดียวที่ท่านถือเดือนอ้ายเป็นต้นปี ต่อมาถือเดือน ๕ เป็นต้นปี เหตุที่ถือเดือนอ้ายหรือเดือน ๕ เป็นต้นปีนั้น [เพราะ]

"Deuan âai" falls variously in December or January [of the solar year]. The use of "deuan âai" as the beginning [of the Thai year] is very old. Later, [the Thais] used the 5^th month as the beginning of the year. The reason that either "deuan âai" or the 5^th month was used as the beginning of the year is [as follows]:

พระบาทสมเด็จพระจอมเกล้าเจ้าอยู่หัว ราชการที่ ๔ ทรงอธิบายว่า "โบราณคิดเห็นว่า ฤดูหนาวเป็นฤดูพ้นจากมืดฝน สว่างขี้นเปรียบเหมือนเวลาเช้า คนโบราณจึงได้คิดนับเอาฤดูหนาวเป็นต้นนปี ฤดูร้อนเป็นเวลาสว่าง ร้อนเหมืนกลางวัน จึงได้คิดว่าเป็นกลาวปี ฤดูฝนเป็นเวลามืดคลุ้มโดยมากและฝนพรำ เที่ยวไปไหนไม่ได้ จึงได้คิดเห็นว่าเป็นเวลากลางคืน"

Prabahtsomdej Phrajomklao Chaoyoohua [Prá bàat sŏm dèt prá jom glâo jâao yòo hŭa], Rama IV, provided the following explanation, "Our ancient forbearers believed that winter was movement away from the darkness of the rainy season; the [skies] became brighter. This [portion of the year] was compared to morning. Our forefathers thus considered winter as the beginning of the year. The summer season was [compared to] the bright portion of the day; and its warmth was like the hottest part of the day. This [summer period] was thus considered to be the middle of the year. The rainy season [on the other hand] was [considered to be] the time of deep darkness and drizzling rain. They could not travel anywhere [during this time]. Thus, this [rainy season] was considered to be the middle of the night.

สาเหตุที่ต่อมาได้เปลี่ยนเอาเดือน ๕ เป็นต้นปี อาจเป็นเพราะเดือนอ้ายยังเป็นระยะเวลาเรื่มเก็บเกี่ยวไม่เหมาะที่จะมีงานรื่นเริงฉลองปีไหม่ จึงได้เปลี่ยนวันขึ้นปีใหม่เป็นวันขึ้น ๑ ค่ำ เดือน ๕ ซึ่งเป็นเวลาผ่านพ้นจากการทำไร่ไถนา เหมาะกับความเป็นอยู่ของคนไทยเรา

Subsequent reasoning put the beginning of the year at the fifth month. This may have happened because "deuan âai" occurs during harvest time making it unsuitable for a boisterous festival [to mark] the new year. Therefore, New Year's day was moved to the first day of the waxing moon of the fifth month. This is the time [of the year] when [farmers] have completed their work in the fields [(their plowing and planting)] and [New Years celebrations] are now appropriate for the way of life of our Thai people.

__________________________________

Please let me know if I made any translation or interpretation errors. Thanks.

[mangkorn]

David: This is certainly not your fault, as you are citing a resource, but "Tuan" is a horrendous transliteration of the Thai word for month. There's no way that any foreign speaker would ever be understood trying to say that abomination...

There may not be any proper way to do it, but that's as far away from correct as it gets.

Oh, the endless woes of transliteration...

Cheers.

[DavidHouston]

David: This is certainly not your fault, as you are citing a resource, but "Tuan" is a horrendous transliteration of the Thai word for month. There's no way that any foreign speaker would ever be understood trying to say that abomination...

There may not be any proper way to do it, but that's as far away from correct as it gets.

Oh, the endless woes of transliteration...

Cheers.

Mangkorn,

This is my fault; I am the one responsible for both the translation and transcription. Taking your critique to heart, I took the Thai for the "first month" to "Thai2English", obtained its transcription and edited the post in the appropriate places. I also inserted the Thai2English transcription of King Rama IV's name into the translation section.

Thank you for bringing these errors to my attention.

[coalminer]

One more post, if I may, on the subject of when the New Year occurs in the Thai lunar calendar. I made the mental error of assuming that New Years occurs on the first day of the first month. Not true, just as Yoot told us. Here is an additional section from pages 94 and 95 of Volume One of "Five Minutes of Thai Language".

David,

Very good and useful input to the thread.

Thanks again for your research

Coalminer

[Suszzy]

for davidhouston.