Execution Thai Style

[consumerismsux]

Quite some time ago & I believe in the USA, a psychology student conducted a test. I am unable to remember the object of the test but nonetheless...

He paid a number of randomly selected people (about 100, I think) to simply push a button when instructed to do so.

The scenario.

The test subject was brought into a room, in which he saw a human strapped to a chair. Electrical wires were connected to various parts of the chair. The person in the chair was seperated from the test subject by a sound-proof 'one way' mirror. In front of the test subject was a panel with a push-button on it.

The test subject was told to press the push-button when instructed. They were also told that by doing so, the person in the chair would be given an electric shock of a fixed duration - not enough to kill but enough to cause great discomfort & pain.

What the test subjects did not know was that the person in the chair was an actor & would feign being shocked. The actor could easily do this because when the test subject pressed the 'shock' button, the actor would see a light turn on in his room & so could react at the correct times.

The results of the test shocked the student.

More than 50% of test subjects did not question the fact that they would be inflicting pain on a fellow human being. Nor did they show any empathy for the person in the chair.

The minority of test subjects refused to push the button when they learned what it would do. They disobeyed.

I guess this shows that only a minority of people are willing to question authority when it come to issues of humanity.

Edited September 23, 2007 by consumerismsux

[meemiathai]

I am not sure if I support capital punishment. I always try to forgive people for what they have done wrong.

But I think if you have come into contact many times enough with really really bad people, you might think capital punishment is the best way. There are indeed people who are just a danger to the society and there is no point keeping them here.

I am in agreement with phillip.

[lazeeboy]

When I hear and read about some of the criminals and murderers - and yobbos - that our societies (have to) put up with, I begin to wonder whether it wouldn´t be such a bad idea to reintroduce ............ `nuff said.......

i'll agree with that ,maybe this awaiting them would deter a few ...........

[brahmburgers]

I am a Buddhist and believe that death is appropriate for particularly heinious crimes.

A few posters mentioned other countries for comparison: I get particularly rankled by 'honor killings' that take place in some Muslim countries. Example: an unmarried mid-teen girl is accused of not being a virgin. She goes to a doctor and gets proof of her virginity. She comes home and her father chops off her head while she's sitting at the dinner table (get this) ....because of the fact she went to get the test! In other words, she shamed the family by getting the test.

Also common in Muslim countries: a 'supposed' crime of infidelity, let's say by a married man messing around. The sharia sanctioned retribution? The gigolo's sister is legally allowed to be gang raped by the male members of the offended party.

.....Legally sanctioned gang rape of mid-teen girls by Sharia law! ....as well as religously sanctioned murder of one's own brood.

It's tough enough being born a female in most countries - but being born female in a fundamentalist Muslim country is the worst.

....oops, almost forgot, In India and China, if you're determined to be a female in the womb (or right after birth) you're lucky to even be allowed to survive. So perhaps it's even worse in India and China (than a Muslim country) to be conceived female.

.....and we put ourselves above dogs? Dogs would never do such sicko things.

Edited September 23, 2007 by brahmburgers

[garro]

Brahmburgers says;

I am a Buddhist and believe that death is appropriate for particularly heinious crimes.

One of the Buddha's famous followers was a mass murderer and was known for wearing the fingers of his victims in a necklace.

A few questions for you?

Who decides what crimes deserve death?

Who gets to choose who lives and who dies?

Why is it always the poor and powerless that tend to be executed?

Most of the most henious crimes have been commisioned by politicians, will you be handing them the same justice?

Edited September 23, 2007 by garro

[meemiathai]

Sorry but I will save a dog first in a fire than a person.

I don't put myself above a dog.

Message copied.

[meemiathai]

Brahmburgers says;

I am a Buddhist and believe that death is appropriate for particularly heinious crimes.

One of the Buddha's famous followers was a mass murderer and was known for wearing the fingers of his victims in a necklace.

A few questions for you?

Who decides what crimes deserve death?

Who gets to choose who lives and who dies?

Why is it always the poor and powerless that tend to be executed?

Most of the most henious crimes have been commisioned by politicians, will you be handing them the same justice?

I understand it is difficult. But according to what you are saying, there should not even be laws. No one can decide.

[garro]

Deciding to kill somebody is a unique decision.

Being against the death penalty does not make me an anarchist.

European countries have removed this shameful punishment.

They have not fallen into chaos.

I would feel much safer on a typical European street than an American one despite their eagerness to execute in many states.

[consumerismsux]

I understand it is difficult. But according to what you are saying, there should not even be laws. No one can decide.

You are exactly correct! . Laws should be abolished. They have never ever achieved the purpose of their existence.

Whats that! You think that the whole world will go crazy if the laws are removed? Do you really think that we are like caged animals & that if the rules were gone, we would turn into crazed beasts?

I think that if we drop our 'outer' rules' we would find our 'inner' rules to be much more loving, creative & spontaneous by comparison.

It's very easy to sit in a chair & proclaim "death to all bad people" & this is because that you feel that you are in no way connected to the "bad people". In actual fact you, like me, are very connected. Do you really think that bad people are happy? Do you really think that more pain & suffering is the answer when you, yourself, already know that pain & suffering is what makes people crazy?

Rules nor prisons will solve any of the problems we speak of...history speaks for itself here. On the other hand, showing compassion & forgiveness DOES solve these problems. It's just that there are so many people who insist upon following the unforgiving & compassionless rules.

Finally, it is ridiculous to even think that some forms of execution are more 'humane' than others. There is nothing humane about the summary killing of anything. It is an act of senseless violence, which is usually committed out of fear...& more violence will not solve this problem. You'd better hope that you meet someone like me when you are at deaths door other than meeting someone who 'follows the rules'.

BTW, when I say 'you', I don't mean you. I mean 'everybody'.

Edited September 23, 2007 by consumerismsux

[pattayadave]

Deciding to kill somebody is a unique decision.

Being against the death penalty does not make me an anarchist.

European countries have removed this shameful punishment.

They have not fallen into chaos.

I would feel much safer on a typical European street than an American one despite their eagerness to execute in many states.

would you make that unique decision if a member of your family were to be raped or murdered

[consumerismsux]

Deciding to kill somebody is a unique decision.

Being against the death penalty does not make me an anarchist.

European countries have removed this shameful punishment.

They have not fallen into chaos.

I would feel much safer on a typical European street than an American one despite their eagerness to execute in many states.

would you make that unique decision if a member of your family were to be raped or murdered

I wouldn't but by the sound of it, you would...would you?

Edited September 23, 2007 by consumerismsux

[tijnebijn]

I agree with garro completely .

Humankind altogether should look things in a bigger picture .

Revenge because it is personal is understandable , but does not mean it is the best thing to do .

I believe in open borders and acceptation of all believes and religions ,

of course it should start somewhere , it is a long way to go rather though .

And how the situation is in the world right now it would be not such a good idea either .

But read through the lines ..........

[garro]

Deciding to kill somebody is a unique decision.

Being against the death penalty does not make me an anarchist.

European countries have removed this shameful punishment.

They have not fallen into chaos.

I would feel much safer on a typical European street than an American one despite their eagerness to execute in many states.

would you make that unique decision if a member of your family were to be raped or murdered

If somebody killed a member of my family I would likely risk the karmic consequnces and kill that person. I would not expect somebody else to kill on my behalf. I would be wrong in my actions but and prepared to accept the consequences.

I have sympathy for those who avenge a loved one's death but think their actions are 'wrong'.

I have no sympathy for those who support murder by the state in the form of executions.

[meemiathai]

I understand it is difficult. But according to what you are saying, there should not even be laws. No one can decide.

You are exactly correct! . Laws should be abolished. They have never ever achieved the purpose of their existence.

Whats that! You think that the whole world will go crazy if the laws are removed? Do you really think that we are like caged animals & that if the rules were gone, we would turn into crazed beasts?

I think that if we drop our 'outer' rules' we would find our 'inner' rules to be much more loving, creative & spontaneous by comparison.

It's very easy to sit in a chair & proclaim "death to all bad people" & this is because that you feel that you are in no way connected to the "bad people". In actual fact you, like me, are very connected. Do you really think that bad people are happy? Do you really think that more pain & suffering is the answer when you, yourself, already know that pain & suffering is what makes people crazy?

Rules nor prisons will solve any of the problems we speak of...history speaks for itself here. On the other hand, showing compassion & forgiveness DOES solve these problems. It's just that there are so many people who insist upon following the unforgiving & compassionless rules.

Finally, it is ridiculous to even think that some forms of execution are more 'humane' than others. There is nothing humane about the summary killing of anything. It is an act of senseless violence, which is usually committed out of fear...& more violence will not solve this problem. You'd better hope that you meet someone like me when you are at deaths door other than meeting someone who 'follows the rules'.

BTW, when I say 'you', I don't mean you. I mean 'everybody'.

Good then, we can now execute someone without the courts approval. No laws!

You will forgive me, won't you? You will still give me a hug and just say "try not to do it next time, please.", right?

[consumerismsux]

Good then, we can now execute someone without the courts approval. No laws!

You will forgive me, won't you? You will still give me a hug and just say "try not to do it next time, please.", right?

After the 10 000th hug (complete with kisses, if you want), you'll be such a nice person, you'll not want to commit such terrible crimes again.

Edited September 23, 2007 by consumerismsux

[meemiathai]

I agree with garro completely .

Humankind altogether should look things in a bigger picture .

Revenge because it is personal is understandable , but does not mean it is the best thing to do .

I believe in open borders and acceptation of all believes and religions ,

of course it should start somewhere , it is a long way to go rather though .

And how the situation is in the world right now it would be not such a good idea either .

But read through the lines ..........

If you look at the bigger picture, it is not about revenge at all.

We are talking about the best ways of dealing with these people if they are not capable of returning to become a normal person who will not go killing or raping people any time they can. It is a serious problem and just trying to solve it.

Let's say if a guy raped someone, he gets into jail, after some years he comes out and start raping dozens of people again and goes to jail, do you think we should still let him out risking other people's safety?

[meemiathai]

Deciding to kill somebody is a unique decision.

Being against the death penalty does not make me an anarchist.

European countries have removed this shameful punishment.

They have not fallen into chaos.

I would feel much safer on a typical European street than an American one despite their eagerness to execute in many states.

would you make that unique decision if a member of your family were to be raped or murdered

I wouldn't but by the sound of it, you would...would you?

Let's say if a family member you love a lot was raped, tortured and killed by someone and caught on video tape and you'd seen it, he is caught and when he sees you he tells you what a good time he had. He tells you I am probably going to escape jail or get out just in 20/30 years. So what! I will be doing it again!

May I ask you what your response is?

[meemiathai]

Good then, we can now execute someone without the courts approval. No laws!

You will forgive me, won't you? You will still give me a hug and just say "try not to do it next time, please.", right?

After the 10 000th hug (complete with kisses, if you want), you'll be such a nice person, you'll not want to commit such terrible crimes again.

I agree. Maybe only a hundred will do. But 100 people died just because of me. Is it fair.

[consumerismsux]

If you look at the bigger picture, it is not about revenge at all.

We are talking about the best ways of dealing with these people if they are not capable of returning to become a normal person who will not go killing or raping people any time they can. It is a serious problem and just trying to solve it.

Let's say if a guy raped someone, he gets into jail, after some years he comes out and start raping dozens of people again and goes to jail, do you think we should still let him out risking other people's safety?

You can lead a horse to water but you can't make him drink.

[meemiathai]

Deciding to kill somebody is a unique decision.

Being against the death penalty does not make me an anarchist.

European countries have removed this shameful punishment.

They have not fallen into chaos.

I would feel much safer on a typical European street than an American one despite their eagerness to execute in many states.

would you make that unique decision if a member of your family were to be raped or murdered

If somebody killed a member of my family I would likely risk the karmic consequnces and kill that person. I would not expect somebody else to kill on my behalf. I would be wrong in my actions but and prepared to accept the consequences.

I have sympathy for those who avenge a loved one's death but think their actions are 'wrong'.

I have no sympathy for those who support murder by the state in the form of executions.

You have lost your rationality.

You are assuming that those get sentenced to death are more innocent than the one you thought have killed your loved one, right?

[meemiathai]

If you look at the bigger picture, it is not about revenge at all.

We are talking about the best ways of dealing with these people if they are not capable of returning to become a normal person who will not go killing or raping people any time they can. It is a serious problem and just trying to solve it.

Let's say if a guy raped someone, he gets into jail, after some years he comes out and start raping dozens of people again and goes to jail, do you think we should still let him out risking other people's safety?

You can lead a horse to water but you can't make him drink.

Agreed. That is why if it is not drinking, kick it out and let the ones that want to drink come forward.

The only thing is we have to make really really sure that it surely doesn't want to drink but not having difficulties to put its head down to drink. If that is the case we should try every possible way to help it drink.

[consumerismsux]

Let's say if a family member you love a lot was raped, tortured and killed by someone and caught on video tape and you'd seen it, he is caught and when he sees you he tells you what a good time he had. He tells you I am probably going to escape jail or get out just in 20/30 years. So what! I will be doing it again!

May I ask you what your response is?

This is an easy one.

First of all, the statement "he tells you what a good time he had" is purely designed to get a reaction from you. Disappoint him by not giving the required reaction. If you do react, he will be controlling you.

Secondly, the world is not about 'cause & effect'. When one learns that they can choose their responses, the 'cause & effect' routine is nullified.

Thirdly, people react to the murder of a loved one in a somewhat irrational way...it is an emotive reaction. When you break it down & look at the situation for what it really is, avenging murder it is all about making the 'living' feel better, since the dead person cannot be brought back to life.

In summary, avenging murder has little to do with keeping the bad guys off the streets (lets face it, there are still lots of bad guys ON the streets) & much to do with making the living feel good. I would suggest that if you want to feel good, simply do what you do at any other moment in your life...CHANGE YOUR MIND.

Edited September 23, 2007 by consumerismsux

[garro]

Deciding to kill somebody is a unique decision.

Being against the death penalty does not make me an anarchist.

European countries have removed this shameful punishment.

They have not fallen into chaos.

I would feel much safer on a typical European street than an American one despite their eagerness to execute in many states.

would you make that unique decision if a member of your family were to be raped or murdered

If somebody killed a member of my family I would likely risk the karmic consequnces and kill that person. I would not expect somebody else to kill on my behalf. I would be wrong in my actions but and prepared to accept the consequences.

I have sympathy for those who avenge a loved one's death but think their actions are 'wrong'.

I have no sympathy for those who support murder by the state in the form of executions.

You have lost your rationality.

You are assuming that those get sentenced to death are more innocent than the one you thought have killed your loved one, right?

Wrong, I am saying that I am far from perfect and would probably try and avenge the death of a loved one.

This action would be against my values and I would know while commiting the act that I am a murderer.

I would not expect anyone to do this unethical act in my name.

[meemiathai]

Let's say if a family member you love a lot was raped, tortured and killed by someone and caught on video tape and you'd seen it, he is caught and when he sees you he tells you what a good time he had. He tells you I am probably going to escape jail or get out just in 20/30 years. So what! I will be doing it again!

May I ask you what your response is?

This is an easy one.

First of all, the statement "he tells you what a good time he had" is purely designed to get a reaction from you. Disappoint him by not giving the required reaction. If you do react, he will be controlling you.

Maybe start joking with him about what style he was using during the rape? If it is love you are talking about, why try to disappoint him. What are you trying to create from disappointing him? Is that the main thing we want in life, to disappoint people? I do not get pleasure from disappointing people, regardless of whoever this person is. My response would be to tell him I might forgive him if forgiving him is going to change him. If he learns to love people, I might forgive him. But if he keeps on the best way to do would be to remove him for good.

Secondly, the world is not about 'cause & effect'. When one learns that they can choose their responses, the 'cause & effect' routine is nullified.

Thirdly, people react to the murder of a loved one in a somewhat irrational way...it is an emotive reaction. When you break it down & look at the situation for what it really is, avenging murder it is all about making the 'living' feel better, since the dead person cannot be brought back to life.

What I am talking about here is not about making the "living feel better". It is obvious that the damages are irreversable. It is just that we don't want it to happen again.

In summary, avenging murder has little to do with keeping the bad guys off the streets (lets face it, there are still lots of bad guys ON the streets) & much to do with making the living feel good. I would suggest that if you want to feel good, simply do what you do at any other moment in your life...CHANGE YOUR MIND.

I know how to feel good already.

[midasthailand]

I think it would change the minds of many would be murders, rapists, and child molesters etc. The prison systems back there are getting way out of hand, with gangs, drugs, and murders in prison. There would be far less crime in the long run.

but there is a capital punishment in the us of a - and is not a deterrent for the murderers.

as to rapists and child molesters there is no capital punishment anywhere in the world (with exception od some backward muslim countries ruled by the sharia law).

those convicted of rape and child molestation and sentenced to prison do have a very hard time there - including group rape and murder. They know it before commiting the crime - they still do it.

capital punishment for them is just saving them from tortures by the inmates.

the prison system in the usa doesn't work despite being developed within the last 20 years from trapping 200k to 3mln convicts - it's no more now than a tool of class oppression against the poor and dispossessed

Not so in Australia, Paedophiles, when convicted, are placed in protective custody and away from the rest of the prison poulation. I for one wish they would put them in with the ordinary crims so someone could slip a shank into them! Scum of the earth.

[B Fuddled]

Sorry but I will save a dog first in a fire than a person.

I don't put myself above a dog.

Message copied.

What's to be sorry about?

[consumerismsux]

My comments in blue.

First of all, the statement "he tells you what a good time he had" is purely designed to get a reaction from you. Disappoint him by not giving the required reaction. If you do react, he will be controlling you.

Maybe start joking with him about what style he was using during the rape? If it is love you are talking about, why try to disappoint him. What are you trying to create from disappointing him? Is that the main thing we want in life, to disappoint people? I do not get pleasure from disappointing people, regardless of whoever this person is. My response would be to tell him I might forgive him if forgiving him is going to change him. If he learns to love people, I might forgive him. But if he keeps on the best way to do would be to remove him for good.

Now, you are just being silly

Secondly, the world is not about 'cause & effect'. When one learns that they can choose their responses, the 'cause & effect' routine is nullified.

Thirdly, people react to the murder of a loved one in a somewhat irrational way...it is an emotive reaction. When you break it down & look at the situation for what it really is, avenging murder it is all about making the 'living' feel better, since the dead person cannot be brought back to life.

What I am talking about here is not about making the "living feel better". It is obvious that the damages are irreversable. It is just that we don't want it to happen again.

Who is 'we' & how has the summary execution of 'criminals' ever stopped 'it' happening again?

In summary, avenging murder has little to do with keeping the bad guys off the streets (lets face it, there are still lots of bad guys ON the streets) & much to do with making the living feel good. I would suggest that if you want to feel good, simply do what you do at any other moment in your life...CHANGE YOUR MIND.

I know how to feel good already.

Yeah..."a murder a day keeps the vermin away."

[uptou]

I am not sure if I support capital punishment. I always try to forgive people for what they have done wrong.

But I think if you have come into contact many times enough with really really bad people, you might think capital punishment is the best way. There are indeed people who are just a danger to the society and there is no point keeping them here.

I am in agreement with phillip.

I agree,this is a complicated issue.We all know that there are people in society,psychopaths,etc,who love to cause others suffering,just so they can feel alive.it gives them a buzz in which in everyday life they can't get because of a lack of empathy,anxiety,fear,basic human emotion.It's believed many have a problem with the frontal lobe part of their brain,& that there is no cure for this.they are usually highly intelligent,manipulative,& learn to mimmick normal human emotion whilst observing others at an early age.some say they are souless.

In certain books by the dalai lhama i have read he says that we should give criminals chances to change for the good,but to me there a criminals who should not be coming into contact with others for the sake of society,& you could go further in arguing,why keep them alive?Most people would'nt think twice about putting a mad dog down.

[Naam]

I am a Buddhist and believe that death is appropriate for particularly heinious crimes.

A few posters mentioned other countries for comparison: I get particularly rankled by 'honor killings' that take place in some Muslim countries. Example: an unmarried mid-teen girl is accused of not being a virgin. She goes to a doctor and gets proof of her virginity. She comes home and her father chops off her head while she's sitting at the dinner table (get this) ....because of the fact she went to get the test! In other words, she shamed the family by getting the test.

Also common in Muslim countries: a 'supposed' crime of infidelity, let's say by a married man messing around. The sharia sanctioned retribution? The gigolo's sister is legally allowed to be gang raped by the male members of the offended party.

.....Legally sanctioned gang rape of mid-teen girls by Sharia law! ....as well as religously sanctioned murder of one's own brood.

It's tough enough being born a female in most countries - but being born female in a fundamentalist Muslim country is the worst.

....oops, almost forgot, In India and China, if you're determined to be a female in the womb (or right after birth) you're lucky to even be allowed to survive. So perhaps it's even worse in India and China (than a Muslim country) to be conceived female.

.....and we put ourselves above dogs? Dogs would never do such sicko things.

listen up people and read the lectures of Professor Brahmburgers which contain a treasure of education and experience. in one of his former lives he must have been born as a female in a muslim country and in another life he lived many years with muslims. one small caveat though... except for the last two sentences in his posting he produced nothing but uneducated and deplorable BULLSH*T² with the obvious intent to insult the believers in one the world's major religions.

moderators please act!

[TAWP]

Most people would'nt think twice about putting a mad dog down.

*looks around* In regards to all the dogs that run around here I would say you are wrong.