Are Thais Slow Builders? Or Is It Just Me?

[jstumbo]

With unskilled labor, you are lucky to finish in 12 months and more re-work than is sane.

I think I could build a house myself with only an assistant to help lift things in 12 months.

Don't laugh too much, but do they have building codes that you have to meet? Or can you just build the house and do the plumbing and wiring however you want to without needing any inspections or permits?

Jim

[chownah]

With unskilled labor, you are lucky to finish in 12 months and more re-work than is sane.

I think I could build a house myself with only an assistant to help lift things in 12 months.

Don't laugh too much, but do they have building codes that you have to meet? Or can you just build the house and do the plumbing and wiring however you want to without needing any inspections or permits?

Jim

I'm building a kitchen (basically a small two story concrete post and beam house attached to our house) by myself with one worker helping....actually I end up planning and helping him. I organize the work so that he can work without me as much as possible. It has taken quite awhile to get to the point where he mostly understands what I want and knows when it is time to ask me before doing things his own way...but he still sometimes "solves problems" on his own and when he does this, sometimes it even is what I want...but often it is not what I wanted but I supervise him closely enough that the disappointments are not show stoppers and just require a bit of rework and a bit more expense for materials. He's not the best house builder around but he has experience in concrete and block work....I won't have him do the doors and windows alone though...he can do wood but his idea of what is "nice" is not up to my standards. The fact that he is not the best at house building is actually an advantage for me in that he is more willing to learn to do things my way. My experience is that when I have hired the best workers in our village to work on the house they tend to think they know the best way and don't really focus too well on trying to understand that the way I want it is different from what they think.

I probably work less than 4 hours per day average on the kitchen but my experience is that if I worked full days and made this my number one priority it could be done in 12 months....as my real interest is in farming I try to put as little time as possible in on the construction.

I have several years experience in building the house so I already can speak enough Thai to explain most things to my worker...also I have enough experience to have a feeling for when I need to emphasize things and when I can leave him to his own devices. Also, I'm an engineer and have some experience in almost all facets of the building trades so all I had to do was to learn what the Thai way was because we wanted a local Thai style house and at first I didn't have a clue as to what was what....it took awhile....I let the workers (I had some very experienced people working on the house but they only know the local way to do things) call the shots on the house as far as how to do it but I took an active role in designing (I listen to what several different people said and then made the decisions myself) so I made sure that the foundations and concrete work were up to snuff...which meant I put in rebar beyond what any of them would have done and made the foundations bigger than they would have done...and mixed the concrete to be stronger than they would have done....etc. What I tried to do was to be sure that anything that would be difficult to redo later was done adequately the first time....I let things slide a bit after that and didn't worry too much about stuff that could be easily replaced later if inadequacies arose.

Where I live no permits or inspections are required...with the exception of the electrical which was inspected only very superficially and the village headman had to verify that we had a toilet as a prerequisite for him issuing the house book.

Chownah

Edited September 30, 2007 by chownah

[OlRedEyes]

I'm a little puzzled by the building times quoted here for a house.

I'm not a builder, but have built 4 houses. Two by contractors, two by myself with semi skilled labour.

Average building time was 3 months from start to finish for 3 of the houses, ranging from about 150 - 220 sq.m excluding outbuildings and garages.

One was on a 35 deg. sand dune, 380 sq.m on 3 levels, no piling. 5 months. All with clay brick, quality finish.

[JimmyTheMook]

The tiler --well I just had to tell him to f8ck off home and did it myself! and any one who uses an angle grinder to cut tiles is a fool.

But they all seem to do it and then proceed to set tiles on an uneven slab of mud.

[Bpraim1]

Does this mean that if my house is built in under 5 moths time it is of crap quality! 5months plus sure seems like a long time to build a house! My contractor quoted a 6 week build time with 11 men crew! 118sqm 3 bed 2 bath. With a quaratee if not finished in time, and quality guarantee. Don't like don't pay!

[roietjimmy]

While I am no expert at it, the key here is really to figure out ways to design something with a simple structure and rough carpentry that is finished with furniture that you can move in. Works for my tastes, but if you really like marble you are asking for extra pain.

i do like marble. in fact i like marble very much and that goes for all the 600m² i walk on including my pool area

It's no wonder you never meet farangs as per your comment on another post. Beautiful home absolutly no reason to go anywhere.

[chownah]

Does this mean that if my house is built in under 5 moths time it is of crap quality! 5months plus sure seems like a long time to build a house! My contractor quoted a 6 week build time with 11 men crew! 118sqm 3 bed 2 bath. With a quaratee if not finished in time, and quality guarantee. Don't like don't pay!

No, a high quality house can be built in under 5 months....I've never seen it happen in Thailand though......in fact I've never seen any house built in 5 months in Thailand...I'm talking from absolute start to absolute 100% completion.

Chownah

[Bpraim1]

Does this mean that if my house is built in under 5 moths time it is of crap quality! 5months plus sure seems like a long time to build a house! My contractor quoted a 6 week build time with 11 men crew! 118sqm 3 bed 2 bath. With a quaratee if not finished in time, and quality guarantee. Don't like don't pay!

No, a high quality house can be built in under 5 months....I've never seen it happen in Thailand though......in fact I've never seen any house built in 5 months in Thailand...I'm talking from absolute start to absolute 100% completion.

Chownah

Me too!

Though we are going about building a house a little differently from Thai norm's

House will be built on cement posts 50cm above ground level, first a steel foundation will be set down on posts, then a 20cm base of concrete then another 5cm cap of concrete. Walls are made of steel coated with a zinc/aluminum. Roof trusses are also steel.

Outer wall is fibre cement (cellulose fibre, portland cement and sand), all outer walls are insulated with SFG 3"stay cool.Inner walls are made of gipsum. Roof in bedrooms are 8", livinroom and kitchen 10'. 3 bedrooms 2 bathrooms. Total size 118sqm2 plus 40sqm of vernda. There build time was start to finish 6 weeks! Quaranteed! So time will tell. Price is 8000bht per sqm. Includes everything but kitchen appliances.

[Smithson]

While I am no expert at it, the key here is really to figure out ways to design something with a simple structure and rough carpentry that is finished with furniture that you can move in. Works for my tastes, but if you really like marble you are asking for extra pain. It's interesting to look at things that Thai contractors can do amazingly well, and what just is a mess.

Designing simple seems to be the way to go, lots of roof space to provide shade and lots of open areas. Besides being cheaper and easier, it suits the climate. Many places over here seem to be designed for cool climates, everything sealed off with little air flow.

Edited October 1, 2007 by Smithson

[maprao]

Do not pay them by the day. Agree a price then give them 1/3 at start - 1/3 when roof is on and shell complete and finally 1/3 of labour costs at the end when it is finished.

Buy all the materials as you go and have them order as they go. With you ordering and arranging delivery. This will save you alot of money and you can choose the quality of the materials. Be on site every day or have someone there every day.

I built my house in around 5 months. Just less infact.

[Bpraim1]

Do not pay them by the day. Agree a price then give them 1/3 at start - 1/3 when roof is on and shell complete and finally 1/3 of labour costs at the end when it is finished.

Buy all the materials as you go and have them order as they go. With you ordering and arranging delivery. This will save you alot of money and you can choose the quality of the materials. Be on site every day or have someone there every day.

I built my house in around 5 months. Just less infact.

[/quot

In our contract it is said to pay in 5 installment of 20%, first at the start and last after quality check.

I have bought most of the materitals that i want and the bills i have submitted to then to subtract from the purchase price. This so far has been a great company to deal with. Hope it doesn't change. I will also be on the job site everyday. Just so corners are not cut!

[Tony Clifton]

my home took 11 months to build but they could have managed in 8 months. in Europe for an identical home nothing doing below TWO YEARS and in the U.S. where i built a near identical home it took 15 months (jan 1993 till jun 1994).

What kills elsewhere is permits and inspections. In Thailand, it is mainly a function of the people you have doing the work rather than external factors that can't be controlled.

And what kills people in Thailand is the non-existent inspections and improvised electricians.

Our 2 bedroom house took 18 months to build.

[Smithson]

Couldn't buying materials yourself could lead to being 'charged' by the supplier? Not just because you are farang, but because you not a local builder,

[maprao]

Couldn't buying materials yourself could lead to being 'charged' by the supplier? Not just because you are farang, but because you not a local builder,

This is true. I used to look at the materials and choose what I wanted. Then the father in law would go order it with the building foreman. I tried to order once and the prices were indeed high.On the occassion that this happened was when I tried to order wood when I was alone!

[Smithson]

So does that mean all the ppl buying their own materials are being overcharged?

[Bpraim1]

I have a set price for the house I will build. The contractor and I have set prices for materials. Though more for interior things like lights, toilets windows, showers, things like this. I can go and buy whatever items I choose that I want in the house. They will them take this price off the purchase price, which is paid in 5 installments. IE so if the 2nd payment is for 150,000 and I pay 50,000 for items, the payment to them is only 100,000. We have sat down together and set limits for items. They will not cover if I go and buy a 16,000 bht toilet. I can give them the bill but they will reimburse only up to the limit that we agreed on.

As I wrote in an earlier post, I am not useing brick for my house. I want to try something different! So materials for this are set!

Smithson, I do know that people that reg there company will get price breaks at alot of suppliers. This just means you are paying full sticker price. Same as our countries.

[roietjimmy]

So does that mean all the ppl buying their own materials are being overcharged?

Think it depends on the shop you purchase from. Purchasing from larger retailers such as Home Mart, Home Pro, Global House etc. I have paid the same price as Thais. In some cases, Thai builders do get discounts. Farang beware in smaller shops!

[canadiangirl]

About 5 months for this.

Hey Maigo,

what a beautiful house! Congrats. :-)

[Smithson]

As I wrote in an earlier post, I am not useing brick for my house. I want to try something different! So materials for this are set!

What are you using?

[Bpraim1]

As I wrote in an earlier post, I am not useing brick for my house. I want to try something different! So materials for this are set!

What are you using?

Same style as most Canadian building. But use steel studs instead of wood. and extend from 18" studs to .6m stud spaceing. This way, can place the insulation packets between the studs easier. But still able to keep wall strength. House will not be the same as most people that build here. More of a Canadian rural feel to it. I guess I just don't want to follow the trend. I don't like brick houses! I think they just suck up heat and water, like spunges. Also seems like everyone "not all" just keeps building the same design over and over.

This is the floor plan that will be useing. I will be stretching it abit more as I feel it is not just big enough. But this is the basic layout.

Anyone is welcome to come and take a look. Building will start on the 29th of this month. Srisaket amphoe Khun han.

[Smithson]

Keep us posted on progress. I know what you mean about bricks and concrete soaking up heat. If you look at the building estates everything is brick and concrete, roads, fences etc. there's hardly any shade trees lawns etc. All that concrete is going to help keep the place warm at night. There's also little air flow through these buildings and the only outdoor shade is the carport.

Regarding the insulation, is this because you plan to use air con?

[Bpraim1]

Yes and no

yes, I will use aircon so I would like to keep some of the cold air in. I am also adding insulation as the neighbours have erected a tower to play the news every morning a 6am till 7am. So I am looking for sound proofing as well.

I have gone alittle over board with insulating. As I will also wrap the house in plastic and tape all opening under the outer walland around all opening. This is mostly to deal with condenstaion from aircon. So wall will be outerwall( portland cement, cell fibre, sand) coated with ceramic paint, plastic, steel stud, insulation, gipsum, Ceramic paint interior.

Roof is steel triple coating of ceramic paint 1/4" thickness. Then SFG Armax ceiling board for added sound and insulation. Ceiling will not be wrapped!

Some info on ceramic paint!

http://www.mascoat.com/weatherbloc.php?PHP...35c4ee0addb46ee

[Smithson]

Some info on ceramic paint!

http://www.mascoat.com/weatherbloc.php?PHP...35c4ee0addb46ee

Ceramic paint sounds great, how is it for price and availability?

[Bpraim1]

The company I am dealing with I believe cost is 250btsqm. I am off to see them today, so will update later on.

[Bpraim1]

Chatted with the contractor today. Cleaning roof, primer, Ceramic paint sigle pass 0.25mm thinknes, $250 per sqm.

He is just makeing up a price for residental houses and they have been mostly doing factories, BigC, Tesco,Makro, things of this nature. Just starting on houseing, for this they apply a thicker layer. About five layer.

He said he would have a price ofr me by then.

[Naam]

I have gone alittle over board with insulating. As I will also wrap the house in plastic and tape all opening under the outer walland around all opening. This is mostly to deal with condenstaion from aircon.

what about gargoyles under the eves to scare off aliens?

[Bpraim1]

Vented Soffits, will be installed, so boogeyman can not enter area, But will still allow for good Attic ventilation.

[chownah]

Yes and no

yes, I will use aircon so I would like to keep some of the cold air in. I am also adding insulation as the neighbours have erected a tower to play the news every morning a 6am till 7am. So I am looking for sound proofing as well.

I have gone alittle over board with insulating. As I will also wrap the house in plastic and tape all opening under the outer walland around all opening. This is mostly to deal with condenstaion from aircon. So wall will be outerwall( portland cement, cell fibre, sand) coated with ceramic paint, plastic, steel stud, insulation, gipsum, Ceramic paint interior.

Roof is steel triple coating of ceramic paint 1/4" thickness. Then SFG Armax ceiling board for added sound and insulation. Ceiling will not be wrapped!

Some info on ceramic paint!

http://www.mascoat.com/weatherbloc.php?PHP...35c4ee0addb46ee

I have heard of thermal paint before and it always intrigues me that such a thin layer of material could have appreciable insulative values so I always check out whatever links are provided for paints that make insulative claims. Every time I have done this and analysed what they presented it has always ended up that a coat or even several coats of paint do not appreciably add to the insulative quality of typical construction methods. So I went out and checked out this link. Once again it appears that if you can cut through the song and dance of their promotion and do an analysis of the actual performance it turns out that you can basically ignore their rhetoric and rest assured that this paint will not have any appreciable effect on the insulation value of your walls or roofs...or anything else. Paint is put on in such thin coats that they really do not add appreciably to energy savings....and in fact it turns out that while paints do not add any appreciable energy savings through insulative qualities....the more you use other things for insulation the less the paint will benefit you....which means the non-significant effect of the paint becomes even less.

I know that it will be discouraging to hear this and many people will not want to believe it...so....if anyone would like to see an analysis of just what this paint will do as insulation I would be glad to go through the steps with you and we could discuss what the different steps mean etc. etc. Usually people find this sort of thing boring as well as being incomprehensible so I won't go through the analysis unless someone requests it.

Dr. Naam is a physicist (perhaps this is where the "Dr." comes from although I do hear the he has an extaordinary interest in proctology as well....but that's another story altogether) and I would much enjoy reading any analysis or comments that he might have on the insulative quality of this paint....or any other.

Chownah

Edited October 4, 2007 by chownah

[Bpraim1]

Chowah,

I truley think that if you are saying that ceramic paint offers no R value. You should go and stick your head back in the sand.

I have seen first hand this product, and a few different types in action. Some work better then others.

If you want to go fishing for an argument lets hear it.

[Bpraim1]

Sorry Chowah,

I do agree with you in some aspects, as this Paint will not give you the High R rateing as said in there websites. But what it does give is Huge R value insulation quailities in convection heat transfer. The sun beating down on your roof all day!

To say you don't need to add insulation as Ceramic paint will do, Is not trueIn all areas of building. But then again most people in Thailand only insulate there roof with a thin film of foil. So maybe it is true?

I have put my hand under a roof without Ceramic paint. On different mediums, Tile, steel, wood, Clay tile. I will say that every medium when coated with Ceramic paint was alot cooler to the touch then without.

I say instead of just reading websites and come'n up with conspiracy theories, get out and do some field research!