Travel Warning For Myanmar

[harsh4]

Pathetic. Not even a statement demanding or requesting that the Myanmar gov't show restraint against the Buddhist monks who are displaying such bravery, and who today have been beaten with sticks, tear gassed, and potentially shot at. Restraint that would prevent an evacuation being neccessary. Disgusting.

How many defenceless monks will they beat with sticks if they refuse to bow down and simply keep coming out in more numbers to just take the beating without fighting back ? The path of quiet defiance and demand for dignity in the face of irrational aggression, specially by holy men highly revered in Burmese society, is bound to have an impact on the ruling military junta. The world will stand and watch and cite technicalities refusing direct interference but maybe not this time around for the military rulers. Beating buddhist monks while they refuse to fight back and refuse to go away absolutely will not continue without reactions and protests and I don't see how the military rulers can quell the uprising this time. Gandhi style non violent defiance and protest will leave the rulers look increasingly stupid (not to mention cruel and savage) in the eyes of the world. Hopefully, it will act on their conscience (sp) - if they have any and they find an alternative route rather than violence and death of ordinary citizens. Let's pray no more innocent lives are lost.

[Canadian-Jesse]

Wow... I hate to be a pessimist but, I can't see China or India stepping up to the plate here sadly

Look how China treats it's own commoners and protestors :/

I have a huge disdain for the American foreign policy and current government but if no one else is willing to lend a hand to such a valiant effort to combat oppression and attain the freedoms I take for granted every day then all the power to the Yanks and shame on the UN and shame on anyone who can turn a blind eye.

Money; the root of all evil.

As usual, everyone has disdain for the US until it rescues their ass. Pathetic.

"I have a huge disdain for the American foreign policy and current government"

since you obviously didn't take your head out of yur ass prior to reading.

I'd define current and foreign policy but I'm going to go out on a limb here and give you the benefit of the doubt that you can moderately comprehend these intellectual words

[keemapoot]

Wow... I hate to be a pessimist but, I can't see China or India stepping up to the plate here sadly

Look how China treats it's own commoners and protestors :/

I have a huge disdain for the American foreign policy and current government but if no one else is willing to lend a hand to such a valiant effort to combat oppression and attain the freedoms I take for granted every day then all the power to the Yanks and shame on the UN and shame on anyone who can turn a blind eye.

Money; the root of all evil.

As usual, everyone has disdain for the US until it rescues their ass. Pathetic.

"I have a huge disdain for the American foreign policy and current government"

since you obviously didn't take your head out of yur ass prior to reading.

I'd define current and foreign policy but I'm going to go out on a limb here and give you the benefit of the doubt that you can moderately comprehend these intellectual words

You say you're Canadian, but that doesn't explain your inferiority complex. Most Canadians are smart and reasonable.

Edited September 26, 2007 by keemapoot

[sleepyjohn]

Anyone know of an organised protest here in Thailand? I would like to join. Not so much I expect any results from the Burmese but anti Burmese junta opinion should I think be made vociferously voiced to the Thai regime.

The Thai police here in CM were prefectly civilized when we had the don't invade Iraq protest to the US embassy.

[drnoel]

Pathetic. Not even a statement demanding or requesting that the Myanmar gov't show restraint against the Buddhist monks who are displaying such bravery, and who today have been beaten with sticks, tear gassed, and potentially shot at. Restraint that would prevent an evacuation being neccessary. Disgusting.

I think one junta is normally not in the business of criticizing another junta..

The nature of the people is different.Thais had led their lives under a king.Their thinking is quite different from Myanmar thinking.Therefore it is no wonder that they think that they have worked out a rescue plan to evacuate their people from Myanmar as if Thais might get kidnapped like Koreans in the hands of Talibans.I know coz I am a Myanmar in Thailand.Anyway,that different is not that important.The important thing is,how many of those monks are real monks?How long have they been in monkhood?If I may ask,why would monks involved in politics?For the sake of the people?I don't know.But in my opinion,monks should not involve in this unholy matter of politics.We all know that this junta has some history in 1988.Who guarantee that they won't do it again?People should know better.I am not pessimistic but all these movements will gain nothing since bare hands can't fight against the guns,the baton and the tear gas.This is not the way.This will only result in bloodshed.Asking for international help also is not the way.He who asks for help will always asks for help.The only way is to work together rather than demanding something as if it can be granted in one day and as if it is even possible from a junta like this.The opposition leader should try to work together with the junta.Even if the junta fails finally and she got the power,she won't be able to handle it for more than a couple of years.Look at other examples in the region.Thus,what I think is,she better work together or at least form a team with the junta since I believe that the junta is more or less more disciplined that an ordinary government.I don't say that the military is free from corruption or that they are the best but rather than a weak and uneffective,non functional but nonmilitary government,I think that it is better to have the junta.Anyway,the junta has to go one day,but the thing is at least we should have someone ready to take over when the day comes even though the citizens might have to fight with weapons against weapons to get to this stage.But believe me,we are not that motivated unlike in the olden days when General Aung San fought against the Brits and the Japs.There are many examples in this region.The military will go one day and will play from behind the curtain.Look at Thailand and Indonesia.So,for me,this is nothing special,I was just wondering why the junta would let it grow bigger.I think that they want to show that they are ready to repeat the 8888 as a warning to stop another uprising for another 5 or 10years.Demonstatrate all you want,but it will end up this way no matter what the rest of the world think about it.This is the way the junta think.They don't really care unless Myanmar becomes second Iraq but there is no way Myanmar will become a second Iraq simply because we are not Iraq and there is China which will kind of make the invaders to think again before making a second Iraq out of Myanmar.Just that,time will tell and time will heal.Thais may think that they can just go in and rescue their citizens as if it is a child's play,unless the junta agrees with that,it won't be that easy.And I can't think of a reason why they would want their citizens back as the junta or the demonstrators or the ordinary citizens has no grudge against Thais or any other citizen from any country unless they decided to participate in the demonstrations in which case the military might harm them,mistaking Thais as ordinary Myanmars.I can guarantee that Thais are safer in Myanmar than back in Thailand.It is only Thais who have something in their minds again Myanmars because of the past kings of Myanmar who took over part of Thailand and killed the ancestors which is something the Brits and the Japs has done to Myanmar yet our peopld never think that Brits and Japs are no good while Thais still think of Myanmars as beasts or savages which might be true at that time but not now.At least,I can guarantee that I am not a beast or a savage.One thing is that,I do not represent Myanmar or the Junta or the Myanmars in Thailand.I represent me and myself only.So,don't ask me anything concerning those things nor fight me for what I believe since I didn't do such thing to anyone.You can present what you think here as I think that I can present what I think here.So,chill out.

[keemapoot]

^ yes, you're right. The US will never invade Burma on its own decision. Europe is weak and won't invade anybody for any reason.

So, I agree with you. But people will die and blood will flow in the meantime.

[Acquiesce]

Anyone know of an organised protest here in Thailand? I would like to join. Not so much I expect any results from the Burmese but anti Burmese junta opinion should I think be made vociferously voiced to the Thai regime.

The Thai police here in CM were prefectly civilized when we had the don't invade Iraq protest to the US embassy.

There was one yesterday (wed) outside the Burmese embassy on North Sathorn road.

[RJJ]

The only thing Thailand can do in the way of protest is to publicly announce they will extract Thai citizens if and when they feel the need.

Politically, Thailand cannot argue against military rule because that’s a slap in their own face.

I think Burma is a long way behind the fall of the Iron Curtain or Tiananmen Square, but at least the world is actually noticing what is going on.

The rest of the world need to let Burma know they are being watched.

Squeezing them financially isn't going to force them to change dramatically, it will just make them adjust; look at North Korea.

We all dream of a peaceful breakdown, but it never happens that way.

Therefore we need to hope of a similar situation to Tiananmen Square where the ordinary military tank driver tried to go around the protester instead of killing him with the tank.

That was a world changing event.

Beating of peaceful, bowing, submissive Monks will hopefully bring about the same feeling where the military personal don't want to beat, hurt and kill the unarmed people and religious figures anymore.

Then again, some guys get off beating the defenceless!!!

The world is a troubled place; I don’t think it is any worse in modern times, just with the flood of information available today means we know so much more about the world’s issues and conflicts.

Over and out

[Acquiesce]

Pathetic. Not even a statement demanding or requesting that the Myanmar gov't show restraint against the Buddhist monks who are displaying such bravery, and who today have been beaten with sticks, tear gassed, and potentially shot at. Restraint that would prevent an evacuation being neccessary. Disgusting.

How many defenceless monks will they beat with sticks if they refuse to bow down and simply keep coming out in more numbers to just take the beating without fighting back ? The path of quiet defiance and demand for dignity in the face of irrational aggression, specially by holy men highly revered in Burmese society, is bound to have an impact on the ruling military junta. The world will stand and watch and cite technicalities refusing direct interference but maybe not this time around for the military rulers. Beating buddhist monks while they refuse to fight back and refuse to go away absolutely will not continue without reactions and protests and I don't see how the military rulers can quell the uprising this time. Gandhi style non violent defiance and protest will leave the rulers look increasingly stupid (not to mention cruel and savage) in the eyes of the world. Hopefully, it will act on their conscience (sp) - if they have any and they find an alternative route rather than violence and death of ordinary citizens. Let's pray no more innocent lives are lost.

Well they have already shot dead at least one monk and many have been beaten, they have been under fire from live bullets and tear gas has been used, in 1988 the military regime jailed as well as killed thousands of Burmese democracy activists.

Never under estimate evil.

Edited September 26, 2007 by Acquiesce

[Acquiesce]

Well they have already shot dead at least one monk

Make that two monks.

[gbt71fa]

The Burma Campaign had a stark message for British companies trading in the country yesterday: "If there is a crackdown and the regime opens fire, you have paid for the bullets."

The Campaign in the UK says up to 150 international companies, including many from Britain, trade with Burma – particularly in the travel, timber, gems and clothing sectors – making a total investment of £1.2bn every year.

Way to go all you waaankers from where ever, you should be proud of your selves if you invested in the Burma

Burmese use maily Ak-47, and Chinese-Type Ak-47 knockoffs, which means 7.62mm round...China paid for the bullets...educate yourself.

[tropo]

The nature of the people is different.Thais had led their lives under a king...... ..................(EXTREMELY LONG PARAGRAPH)..............................................You can present what you think here as I think that I can present what I think here.So,chill out.

Just a suggestion. More people will read your posts if you use paragraphs.

[ColPyat]

Anyone know of an organised protest here in Thailand? I would like to join. Not so much I expect any results from the Burmese but anti Burmese junta opinion should I think be made vociferously voiced to the Thai regime.

The Thai police here in CM were prefectly civilized when we had the don't invade Iraq protest to the US embassy.

27th of September, 10 am in front of the Burmese embassy.

[tayto]

It further alleged that businesses investing in Burma were not doing so for altruistic reasons, but because they were attracted by employment conditions that could be described as favourable to employers: normal salaries are less than 25p a day, unions are banned, there are limited health and safety laws, and the minimum working age is 13.

name and shame the companies that trade with the dreadful burmese junta

Diethelm travel for one.

[OOLEEBER]

Pathetic. Not even a statement demanding or requesting that the Myanmar gov't show restraint against the Buddhist monks who are displaying such bravery, and who today have been beaten with sticks, tear gassed, and potentially shot at. Restraint that would prevent an evacuation being neccessary. Disgusting.

I think one junta is normally not in the business of criticizing another junta..

The nature of the people is different.Thais had led their lives under a king.Their thinking is quite different from Myanmar thinking.Therefore it is no wonder that they think that they have worked out a rescue plan to evacuate their people from Myanmar as if Thais might get kidnapped like Koreans in the hands of Talibans.I know coz I am a Myanmar in Thailand.Anyway,that different is not that important.The important thing is,how many of those monks are real monks?How long have they been in monkhood?If I may ask,why would monks involved in politics?For the sake of the people?I don't know.But in my opinion,monks should not involve in this unholy matter of politics.We all know that this junta has some history in 1988.Who guarantee that they won't do it again?People should know better.I am not pessimistic but all these movements will gain nothing since bare hands can't fight against the guns,the baton and the tear gas.This is not the way.This will only result in bloodshed.Asking for international help also is not the way.He who asks for help will always asks for help.The only way is to work together rather than demanding something as if it can be granted in one day and as if it is even possible from a junta like this.The opposition leader should try to work together with the junta.Even if the junta fails finally and she got the power,she won't be able to handle it for more than a couple of years.Look at other examples in the region.Thus,what I think is,she better work together or at least form a team with the junta since I believe that the junta is more or less more disciplined that an ordinary government.I don't say that the military is free from corruption or that they are the best but rather than a weak and uneffective,non functional but nonmilitary government,I think that it is better to have the junta.Anyway,the junta has to go one day,but the thing is at least we should have someone ready to take over when the day comes even though the citizens might have to fight with weapons against weapons to get to this stage.But believe me,we are not that motivated unlike in the olden days when General Aung San fought against the Brits and the Japs.There are many examples in this region.The military will go one day and will play from behind the curtain.Look at Thailand and Indonesia.So,for me,this is nothing special,I was just wondering why the junta would let it grow bigger.I think that they want to show that they are ready to repeat the 8888 as a warning to stop another uprising for another 5 or 10years.Demonstatrate all you want,but it will end up this way no matter what the rest of the world think about it.This is the way the junta think.They don't really care unless Myanmar becomes second Iraq but there is no way Myanmar will become a second Iraq simply because we are not Iraq and there is China which will kind of make the invaders to think again before making a second Iraq out of Myanmar.Just that,time will tell and time will heal.Thais may think that they can just go in and rescue their citizens as if it is a child's play,unless the junta agrees with that,it won't be that easy.And I can't think of a reason why they would want their citizens back as the junta or the demonstrators or the ordinary citizens has no grudge against Thais or any other citizen from any country unless they decided to participate in the demonstrations in which case the military might harm them,mistaking Thais as ordinary Myanmars.I can guarantee that Thais are safer in Myanmar than back in Thailand.It is only Thais who have something in their minds again Myanmars because of the past kings of Myanmar who took over part of Thailand and killed the ancestors which is something the Brits and the Japs has done to Myanmar yet our peopld never think that Brits and Japs are no good while Thais still think of Myanmars as beasts or savages which might be true at that time but not now.At least,I can guarantee that I am not a beast or a savage.One thing is that,I do not represent Myanmar or the Junta or the Myanmars in Thailand.I represent me and myself only.So,don't ask me anything concerning those things nor fight me for what I believe since I didn't do such thing to anyone.You can present what you think here as I think that I can present what I think here.So,chill out.

I just wanted to say thank you for your thoughts.

Fascinating to hear from your perspective.

Your English is very good indeed but paragraphs would help westerners read more comfortably.

Please post again.

[marcortez]

American revolution in the 1700's..Boston Tea party, "one if by land, two if by sea"....

"Give me liberty or give me death"

General George Washington, the crossing of the Delaware river.......

From a savage colony, to the worlds leader, by most reasoned accounts......in the span of a couple hundred years.

Amazing what the love of liberty will do for some folks

Keep the faith and stand solidified Burma.....mankind is behind you.

[Jai Dee]

Chamber of Commerce says Burmese demonstration affects Thai-Burmese trading

Mr. Niyom Wairatpanij (นิยม ไวยรัชพาณิช), the chairman of the Chamber of Commerce’s committee responsible for promoting trade with neighboring countries, says the massive demonstration in Myanmar is affecting trade along Thai-Burmese border.

Mr. Niyom says the pro-democracy rally in Myanmar is hindering trade along the border areas of the two countries. He says tradesmen from the Thai side are waiting for the situation to return to normal before bringing their goods to be sold in Myanmar. Besides, people in Myanmar have lower power of consumption, and fewer Thai products are being sold in the country.

Mr. Niyom says Thailand’s agricultural sector is unaffected from the tension in Myanmar, except the Thai hoteliers in the country. He says the government of Myanmar should help protect foreign investors from violent causes in the future.

At the moment, the border checkpoints in both countries are still opened, but security has been more rigorous.

Mr. Niyom says the value of trade between the two nations is around 100 billion baht per year, and Thailand has the balance of trade deficit of about 50 billion baht.

Source: Thai National News Bureau Public Relations Department - 27 September 2007

[Jai Dee]

PM says Thais need not evacuate from Myanmar

Prime Minister Surayud Chulanont says he hopes that the mass protest in Myanmar will not escalate to the point where the Thai government may have to evacuate Thai citizens out from Myanmar.

The premier gave an interview in New York about the situation in Myanmar, saying that the Thai government cannot interfere with Myanmar’s affairs. The government therefore requests countries in the region, especially China and India, to help prevent the situation from aggravating.

Gen.Surayud added that Thailand’s security units have monitored the situation which might affect the country’s border areas adjacent to Myanmar.

The premier suggested that the situation in Myanmar can be resolved by reconciliation means, not by violence. He hoped that Myanmar finds solutions acceptable by all sides.

Source: Thai National News Bureau Public Relations Department - 27 September 2007

[Jai Dee]

MOT ready to assist in evacuation of Thai citizens in Myanmar

The Ministry of Transport is ready to provide assistance in evacuating Thai citizens from Myanmar if political demonstrations turn violent.

Minister of Transport Admiral Thira Haocharoen (ธีระ ห้าวเจริญ) said that preparations have been made by his ministry to evacuate Thai citizens in Myanmar if requested by the Ministry of Foreign Affairs or Thai national security agencies. Admiral Thira is confident that airlines operating in Myanmar, including Thai Airways International, have contingency plans for such situations and can be called upon to assist government authorities in aiding Thai nationals. He revealed that the Royal Thai Air Force is prepared to deploy military transport aircraft to rescue Thai people in Myanmar if necessary.

The Minister of Transport said that no evacuation plans of Thai citizens by sea have been proposed, as the Royal Thai Navy does not operate in Myanmese waters, and Thai commercial marine services do not have a sizeable presence in Myanmar.

Source: Thai National News Bureau Public Relations Department - 27 September 2007

[Jai Dee]

Gen. Sonthi coordinates with Royal Thai Air Force to prepare for evacuation of Thai citizens in Yangon

The Chairman of the Council for National Security Gen. Sonthi Boonyaratglin (สนธิ บุญยรัตกลิน) revealed that he has coordinated with the Royal Thai Air Force to prepare military aircraft to conduct evacuations of Thai citizens in Yangon if ongoing monk demonstrations turn violent.

Thai diplomatic corp officers in Myanmar have told Gen. Sonthi that the Myanmese military junta have declared a curfew, and are using military troops to suppress demonstrations, though no incidents of violence or brutality have been reported. Gen. Sonthi said that recent discussions with Royal Thai Air Force Commander in Chief Air Chief Marshal Chalit Phukphasuk (ชลิต พุกผาสุข) has revealed that the Royal Thai Air Force is ready to deploy military aircrafts to airlift Thai citizens trapped in Yangon, Myanmar back to Bangkok, Thailand.

The Thai embassy to Yangon is currently coordinating with officials and Thai citizens in the Yangon to ensure their safety during the situation.

Source: Thai National News Bureau Public Relations Department - 27 September 2007

[Scott]

Oh no, not trade...It can't be possible, something has to be done if the situation is affecting trade! Never mind about people's lives, but don't let it affect trade.

I think that someone needs to make the point (to the Thai gov't) that it is the best interest of Thailand for democratic reform to occur in Burma. This would leave Thailand in a good position to be the "gateway" to Burma. It would allow Thailand to start to develop it's service sector and develop in the same type of manner as HK and Singapore.

If Burma becomes more free and sanctions are lifted, it's better for everyone. Although primarily it's a human rights issue, it's not just a human rights issue.

Best to these folks.

[Jai Dee]

Tak prepares for possible influx of Burmese people

More than 200 Burmese people have gradually crossed the border to Thailand to buy commodities and medicines since morning.

Authorities report that the Burmese people have traveled to Mae Sot (แม่สอด) District in the province through the Thai-Myanmar Friendship Bridge since 06.30 am. Tak’s immigration checkpoint has applied the system called “E-Border Pass Overview” to control both inbound and outbound trips at the border area in the province.

As for merchants along the border, the province says they have delivered goods to Myanmar as usual. Military and administrative officials in Tak have prepared themselves for a possible influx of Burmese people. The officials have also closely monitored movements of Burmese college students, monks, and laborers in the border zone of Tak. No suspicious movements have been detected so far.

Source: Thai National News Bureau Public Relations Department - 27 September 2007

[Jai Dee]

EXIM Bank lends Bt4 billion to Myanmar Foreign Trade Bank

The Managing Director of the Export Import Bank of Thailand, Dr. Apichai Boonthiraworn (อภิชัย บุญธีรวร), reports that the EXIM Bank is providing 4 billion baht in loans to Myanmar over a period of 12 years through the Myanmar Foreign Trade Bank. The loan agreement was initiated on June 2004 and will allow the Myanmar Foreign Trade Bank to act as a proxy for the Myanmese government in procuring essential goods and services from Thailand in order to improve infrastructure in Myanmar.

The Export Import Bank of Thailand has so far supported loans for Thai exporters to Myanmar under a procurement contract, of which 3.937 billion baht has been approved by the Myanmar Foreign Trade Bank, accounting for 98% of total loans provided by the EXIM Bank. 90% of loans have been allocated, while 8% remain under evaluation.

The Managing Director of the Export Import Bank of Thailand reports that the EXIM Bank is closely monitoring politial demonstrations in Myanmar in order to determine whether the military junta will alter its economic policies during this period.

Source: Thai National News Bureau Public Relations Department - 27 September 2007

[Jai Dee]

Finance Minister affirms EXIM Bank to continue releasing loan to Myanmar

Finance Minister Sommai Phasi (สมหมาย ภาษี) reports that the Export-Import Bank (EXIM) Bank will continue releasing the rest of a four-billion baht loan to Myanmar despite the ongoing political turmoil.

The rest of the loan or 341 million baht has yet been disbursed by Myanmar, the minister says.

Mt Sommai says the ministry decided to release 341 million baht to Myanmar as the loan contract was made before the protest took place and Myanmar has good enough credit.

Source: Thai National News Bureau Public Relations Department - 27 September 2007

[Jai Dee]

Some 100 protesters gather in front of Burmese embassy in Bangkok

Some 100 people gather in front of the Burmese Embassy in Bangkok on Thursday to protest Burma's violent crackdown on peaceful protesters on Wednesday.

The group issued a statement, demanding for the Burmese government to free Aung San Suu Kyi who has been put under house arrest for years.

The statement also called for the Burmese military junta to respect human rights freedom and freedom of expression of the monks and people who joined the protest.

The noisy protesters also called for the Burmese government to restore democracy to the country and the people.

Source: The Nation - 27 September 2007

[Jai Dee]

UN chief to send special envoy to Burma

Caling on Burma's junta to be restraint on peaceful street protesters, UN chief Ban Ki-moon said he will dispatch his special envoy Ibrahim Gambari to the country in respond to the deteriorating situation there.

He called on the generals in Burma to cooperate fully with his mission in order to take advantage of the willingness of the UN to assist in the process of national reconciliation through dialogue, according to a statement issued by the spokesperson of the UN chief.

"Noting reports of the use of force and of arrests and beatings, the Secretary-General calls again on authorities to exercise utmost restraint towards the peaceful demonstrations taking place, as such action can only undermine the prospects for peace, prosperity and stability in Myanmar (Burma)," it said.

Gambari's last time in Burma was May 2006. He made his latest trip to Southeast Asia last month which brought him to see many senior officials of Asean members including Thai Foreign Minister Nitya Pibulsonggram.

The special envoy briefed about his previous trip and mission to a meeting of the Security Council on Wednesday.

His briefing to the 15-member body previously said that the recent events were clear set back for the country.

Gambari has not yet got permission from Burmese leaders in Naypyidaw to get into the country. He needed to hang around in the region until he got a green right from the generals to begin his process, the UN Secretary General's spokesperson Marie Okabe told reporters at the UN Headquarters.

US State Secretary Condoleezza Rice supported the UN move saying the junta must issue visa for Gambari immediately and he should be allowed to see opposition leader including Aung San Suu Kyi while he was there.

The UN Security Council on Wednesday threw its support behind an expected visit by Gambari to Burma, hoping it will happen "as soon as possible."France's Ambassador to the UN Jean-Maurice Ripert, the council chairman for this month, told reporters after an emergency meeting that council members expressed "strong support" for Gambari's mission to Burma.

World leaders and ministers at the UN General Assembly condemned the crackdown in Rangoon which reportedly killed at least five people.

The United States and the European Union issued a joint statement decrying the assault on peaceful demonstrators and calling on the junta to open talk with democracy activists, including detained opposition leader Aung San Suu Kyi.

"The regime has reacted brutally to people who were simply protesting peacefully," Rice said.

"We really do call on the regime to cease all violence and to lay a framework, lay a foundation for a peaceful discussion so that there can be reconciliation and a return to a more free and democratic life for the people of Burma," she added.

Source: The Nation - 27 September 2007

[Jai Dee]

Thousands of people protest, without monks, in Burma

Rangoon - Thousands of people gathered on Pagoda Road in downtown Rangoon Thursday to openly defy Burma's police and military, who have dared to arrest and beat up members of the revered Buddhist monkhood over the past two days.

An estimated 10,000 laymen congregated one block north of Sule Pagoda, a flashpoint for the past ten days of protests, where they shouted catcalls and clapped their hands in a show of contempt for the government troops around the temple.

Although barricades had been taken down on Pagoda Road Thursday morning, there were fully-armed police and soldiers lined up on the sidewalks and posted in the pagoda, readying for a confrontation, eyewitnesses said.

"There are people willing to shoot and people willing to die," said one Western diplomat of the looming showdown.

Most monks stayed away from the protest Thursday, amid reports that authorities had raided several monasteries at around 2 am Thursday, arresting up to 100 monks.

Security personnel raided the Moe Kaung monastery in Yankin Township and Ngwe Kyar Yan Monastery in South Okkalapa township and took away monks in their trucks, covering them with tarpaulin canvas sheets.

Eye-witnesses said the monks were beaten and dragged out of their monasteries screaming. Bloodstains were visible in many of the monks' quarters.

The ruling junta cracked down Wednesday on monk-led marches that started small on September 18 and peaked Monday with an estimated 100,000 participants.

On Wednesday riot police and soldiers beat back monks and their laymen followers with batons and tear gas from the Shwedagon Pogada and fired warning shots at the mob around the Sule Pagoda.

The state-run New Light of Myanmar newspaper claimed that the clash was sparked by protesters throwing stones at the security officers.

"On account of the unavoidable circumstances, the members of the security forces fired some shots employing the least force to disperse the mob," claimed the government mouthpiece.

It claimed one civilian was killed in the melee and two others wounded. Other sources said at least five people, including monks, died on Wednesday and more than 100 were injured.

Barricades and troops were in place Thursday morning at key sites in Yangon, including the Shwedagon Pagoda and Bogyoke Street, two of the main rallying spots for the past nine days of protests in the city.

Roadblocks had been removed from the Pagoda Road that leads to Sule Pagoda, but the temple was heavily guarded.

Burmese's monks, said to number 400,000, have a long history of political activism. The monkhood played a pivotal role in Myanmar's independence struggle from Great Britain in 1947 and the anti-military demonstrations of 1988 that ended in bloodshed.

Burmese military regime rounded up more than a hundred monks in raids of Rangoon temples after midnight and stationed hundreds of troops at key sites in the former capital in preparation for more protests Thursday.

Informed sources said authorities raided several temples early Thursday morning and rounded up an unknown number of monks in an effort to prevent more protest marches on Thursday.

Barricades and troops were in place Thursday morning at key sites in Rangoon, including the Shwedagon and Sule pagodas and Bogyoke Street, the main rallying spots for the past nine days of monk-led protests in the city.

The military finally cracked down on the monks' barefoot rebellion on Wednesday, beating back monks and their laymen followers from the Shwedagon and Sule pagoda and firing warning shots at the crowds, numbering in the thousands.

The government has claimed that only one person died in the melee and two were injured. Other sources said as many as five died, including monks, and more than 100 were injured.

It was still unclear Thursday morning whether the monks would take to the streets for a tenth day. Past protests have started about noon, after the monks have taken food and started their midday fast.

There have been reports of similar monk-led protests taking place in other Burmese cities such as Mandalay and Sittwe.

Burmese monks, said to number 400,000, have a long history of political activism. The monkhood played a pivotal role in Burmese independence struggle from Great Britain in 1947 and the anti-military demonstrations of 1988, that ended in bloodshed.

Source: The Nation - 27 September 2007

[drnoel]

Well,I don't know why you guys are complaining about paragraphs.But if you want paragraphs,so be it,I will give you paragraphs.Fine.It was without a paragraph because I just wanna write down what flows from my heart and brain and I just wanna write and don't wanna bother with decorations.Well,now here is,edited version.Actually I wanna start a new topic but never mind,some errors came up,so can't start.It doesn't matter actually.

The nature of the people is different.Thais had led their lives under a king.Their thinking is quite different from Myanmar thinking who do not really have a king for the last 100 whatsoever years ago.I know coz I am a Myanmar in Thailand.Anyway,that difference is not that important.It is no wonder that they think that they have worked out a rescue plan to evacuate their people from Myanmar as if Thais might get kidnapped like those Koreans in the hands of Talibans.Or is it just a protest against the shootings and killings in Myanmar?Well,diplomacy can have it's own strange ways.Thank god that I am not a diplomat.

The important thing is,

-how many of those monks are real monks?

-How long have they been in monkhood?

-I just hope that you all have a good look at the newly shaved heads of the so-called monks,yet some of them has a fairly short hairs which I anticipated that some members of the opposition might have planned this already by entering monkhood a couple of months before.You cannot just organize such a big rally in a week.I think that this demonstration involves some people who know how to organize mass rallies or people trained by people with such knowledge.I am saying this because it is not common for the real buddhist monks in Myanmar to involve in politics since many of the real buddhist monks that I know through out Myanmar only care about Buddha's teachings and meditation stuff.And in my opinion,I want monks to be monks and the demonstrators to be real demonstrators while I don't like demonstrators to cover themselves with a monk's robe just to show the world that the junta is killing monks just to grab you farangs' attentions.May be they are successful in that already.

-If I may ask,why would monks involved in politics?

For the sake of the people?

I don't know.But in my opinion,monks should not involve in this unholy matter of politics.We all know that this junta has some unplesant history in 1988.Who guarantee that they won't do it again?People should know better.I am not against not in favor of democracy movements nor pessimistic yet neutral but all these movements will gain nothing since bare hands can't fight against the guns,the baton and the tear gas.This is not the way.This will only result in bloodshed.Asking for international help also is not the way.He who asks for help will always asks for help and will never learn to live on his own.

The only way is to work together rather than demanding something as if it can be granted in one day and as if it is even possible from a junta like this.The opposition leader should try to work together with the junta and should try to take over step by step by transition of power slowly.Otherwise, even if the junta fails finally and she got the power,she won't be able to handle it for more than a couple of years.Look at other examples in the region.Thus,what I think is,she better work together or at least form an army+opposition team with the junta since I believe that the junta is more or less,more disciplined that an ordinary civillian government.

I am not saying that the military is clean and free from corruption or that they are the best people to rule Myanmar but rather than a weak and ineffective,unefficient,non functional but nonmilitary government,I think that it is better to have the junta.

Anyway,the junta has to go one day,but the thing is at least we should have someone ready to take over when the day comes even though the citizens might have to fight with weapons against weapons to get to this stage.But believe me,we are not that motivated unlike in the olden days when General Aung San fought against the Brits and the Japs.

There are many examples in this region.The military will go one day and will play from behind the curtain.Look at Thailand and Indonesia.So,for me,this is an unnecessary bloodshed which we can't stop with dialogue.Both sides of the conflict should work together.But in reality who wanna give away power,not to mention sharing it.But I just hope that things will turn towards something more pleasant in the future.Defying the army without anything in hand is utter madness.The people should learn from others in the neighbourhood.But the problem is,the military has completely covered up how it's like in the outside world.Before I came to Thailand,I have never known that we are so much behind the rest of the world,way way back into past.

What we need is someone who really wants the best for the country and who knows how to get there.Fortunately,we got someone who is a nobel laureate,an oxford graduate and the kin of the Father of Myanmar,well,is she the right one?For me,oxford graduate doesn't really means something special.But I have to give her advantage for her sufferings after all those years away from family but she is a Myanmar,right?Or is she a Brit?Who want your president to be married to a farang?Who want your prime minister to be entitled to the citizenship of another country?Do Brits want a PM who has married a Japanese lady?Do you think that Americans want their president to be some lady who's hubby is a chinese guy?Anyway,we are not talking about her love story.Anyone can love anyone.

But this is Asia.And yet she is most favored in the minds of the people of Myanmar even though she married a farang.Nobody can deny that.But how can she give that 'don't come to Myanmar' speech?If you don't come to Myanmar,how can we know what is happening in the outside world?If you don't come to Myanmar,how can we gain knowledge from you?If you don't come to Myanmar or invest in Myanmar,where can we get the dollars that we need for the health and education?Where can we get the dollar to buy the expensive fuel?It is no wonder that the junta turned to yellow skin and eastern Europe.

I am not against her.But I can't help thinking that a good leader should think more about the people rather than fighting blindly against the something she should know by now that she can't get by leading this way.

It is all these sanctions and embargoes that are pushing us deeper into disaster and turmoil rather than forcing the junta to yield to what the rest of the world wants creating more instability in the region.As long as there is unwavering big support behind the generals from the yellow skins,they don't really care.

So,it is the people of Myanmar,under the junta's boots and under the weight of the sanctions and embargoes from those who want the junta to be gone and all these blockades from the world while all you guys out there kept muttering that the Myanmars are at a loss,look at them,under the iron fist of the junta,what a pity,what a shame,yet think about this,it is only a major part that the junta is playing in this political arena.In fact,we are the modern day Sisyphuses.

However,with the rest of the world imposing sanctions and blocking the people of Myanmar,we don't stand a chance in finding out how to make a better place out of our country and what the world has to offer us.The junta is too much and the opposition is no better.So how and where do we go into the future.It is just like that statement,"the blind leadth the blind".

I was just wondering why the junta let it grow bigger.I think that they just want to show that they are ready to repeat the 8888 incident as a warning to stop another uprising for another 5 or 10years by letting a balloon to grow and then break it with a pin just to make a booming sound so as to let the whole of Myanmar and the rest of the world know that nobody can do anything about it.Demonstatrate all you want,but it will end up this way no matter what the rest of the world think about it.This is the way the junta think.

They don't really care unless Myanmar becomes second Iraq but there is no way Myanmar will become a second Iraq simply because we are not Iraq and there is China which will kind of make the invaders to think again before making a second Iraq out of Myanmar.And I think that the generals are confident and will continue to be confident in doing whatever they want because of the yellow skins behind their backs.

Thais may think that they can just go in and rescue their citizens as if it is a child's play,unless the junta agrees with that,it won't be that easy.And I can't think of a reason why they would want their citizens back as the junta nor the demonstrators nor the ordinary citizens has any grudge against Thais or any other citizen from any country unless they decided to participate in the demonstrations in which case the military might harm them,mistaking Thais as ordinary Myanmars.I can guarantee that Thais are safer in Myanmar than back in Thailand as long as they are not in the wrong place at the wrong time.

It is only Thais who have something in their minds against Myanmars because of the past kings of Myanmar who took over part of Thailand and killed their ancestors which is something the Brits and the Japs has done to Myanmar yet our peopld never think that Brits and Japs are up to no good while Thais still think of Myanmars as beasts or savages which might be true at that time but not now.At least,I can guarantee that I am not a beast or a savage.

And as for the arrogant people who think that Myanmar is just another backward country which you can say whatever you want about it without anyone defending back,we may be different and we may be poorer than you but it doesn't mean we are anything less than you are.You can say whatever you want but bear in mind that we are what we are, not because we want it to be this way.And white skin and blue eyes doesn't always mean bigger brains.

One thing is that,I do not represent Myanmar nor the Junta nor the Myanmars in Thailand and I don't mean to offend anyone.Sorry if someone take me as an arrogant SOB just because of the above paragraph.I represent me and me alone.So,don't ask me anything concerning those things nor attack me for what I believe since I didn't do such thing to anyone.You can present whatever you think here as I think that I can present what I think here.So,chill out.

[drnoel]

Some 100 protesters gather in front of Burmese embassy in Bangkok

Some 100 people gather in front of the Burmese Embassy in Bangkok on Thursday to protest Burma's violent crackdown on peaceful protesters on Wednesday.

The group issued a statement, demanding for the Burmese government to free Aung San Suu Kyi who has been put under house arrest for years.

The statement also called for the Burmese military junta to respect human rights freedom and freedom of expression of the monks and people who joined the protest.

The noisy protesters also called for the Burmese government to restore democracy to the country and the people.

Source: The Nation - 27 September 2007

NOISY?

[drnoel]

Thousands of people protest, without monks, in Burma

Rangoon - Thousands of people gathered on Pagoda Road in downtown Rangoon Thursday to openly defy Burma's police and military, who have dared to arrest and beat up members of the revered Buddhist monkhood over the past two days.

An estimated 10,000 laymen congregated one block north of Sule Pagoda, a flashpoint for the past ten days of protests, where they shouted catcalls and clapped their hands in a show of contempt for the government troops around the temple.

Although barricades had been taken down on Pagoda Road Thursday morning, there were fully-armed police and soldiers lined up on the sidewalks and posted in the pagoda, readying for a confrontation, eyewitnesses said.

"There are people willing to shoot and people willing to die," said one Western diplomat of the looming showdown.

Most monks stayed away from the protest Thursday, amid reports that authorities had raided several monasteries at around 2 am Thursday, arresting up to 100 monks.

Security personnel raided the Moe Kaung monastery in Yankin Township and Ngwe Kyar Yan Monastery in South Okkalapa township and took away monks in their trucks, covering them with tarpaulin canvas sheets.

Eye-witnesses said the monks were beaten and dragged out of their monasteries screaming. Bloodstains were visible in many of the monks' quarters.

The ruling junta cracked down Wednesday on monk-led marches that started small on September 18 and peaked Monday with an estimated 100,000 participants.

On Wednesday riot police and soldiers beat back monks and their laymen followers with batons and tear gas from the Shwedagon Pogada and fired warning shots at the mob around the Sule Pagoda.

The state-run New Light of Myanmar newspaper claimed that the clash was sparked by protesters throwing stones at the security officers.

"On account of the unavoidable circumstances, the members of the security forces fired some shots employing the least force to disperse the mob," claimed the government mouthpiece.

It claimed one civilian was killed in the melee and two others wounded. Other sources said at least five people, including monks, died on Wednesday and more than 100 were injured.

Barricades and troops were in place Thursday morning at key sites in Yangon, including the Shwedagon Pagoda and Bogyoke Street, two of the main rallying spots for the past nine days of protests in the city.

Roadblocks had been removed from the Pagoda Road that leads to Sule Pagoda, but the temple was heavily guarded.

Burmese's monks, said to number 400,000, have a long history of political activism. The monkhood played a pivotal role in Myanmar's independence struggle from Great Britain in 1947 and the anti-military demonstrations of 1988 that ended in bloodshed.

Burmese military regime rounded up more than a hundred monks in raids of Rangoon temples after midnight and stationed hundreds of troops at key sites in the former capital in preparation for more protests Thursday.

Informed sources said authorities raided several temples early Thursday morning and rounded up an unknown number of monks in an effort to prevent more protest marches on Thursday.

Barricades and troops were in place Thursday morning at key sites in Rangoon, including the Shwedagon and Sule pagodas and Bogyoke Street, the main rallying spots for the past nine days of monk-led protests in the city.

The military finally cracked down on the monks' barefoot rebellion on Wednesday, beating back monks and their laymen followers from the Shwedagon and Sule pagoda and firing warning shots at the crowds, numbering in the thousands.

The government has claimed that only one person died in the melee and two were injured. Other sources said as many as five died, including monks, and more than 100 were injured.

It was still unclear Thursday morning whether the monks would take to the streets for a tenth day. Past protests have started about noon, after the monks have taken food and started their midday fast.

There have been reports of similar monk-led protests taking place in other Burmese cities such as Mandalay and Sittwe.

Burmese monks, said to number 400,000, have a long history of political activism. The monkhood played a pivotal role in Burmese independence struggle from Great Britain in 1947 and the anti-military demonstrations of 1988, that ended in bloodshed.

Source: The Nation - 27 September 2007

I wonder why they have to use the word "LAYMEN".Can't they find a better word for the people who are not monks?