End Of An Era

[Lickey]

Its the end of an era for our 9rai of Papaya trees/plants, most are now 3mtrs tall and and the recent rains have reduced there value a lot, in fact in the last week, we sold 11.000kg at 50satang a kilo to a canning factory rather than let them rot on the trees, Local market traders still pick and choose at 3bht a kilo, A lot of the trees have very long trunks and a small leaf formation, but also good sized fruit, also some have fallen due to the weight of the fruit and wind and rain, [could be root or stem rot? ] .

I am wondering wether to cull all the trees to 1 meter and let them try to re-shoot or to pull the lot up and cultivate the land ready for another money crop,

Cultivation, would i need to remove all the trees, or would disc-plouging them into the ground be adventageous in soil re-generation adding fibre and nutrients?

PS, the only thing i can find on the internet about this is that papaya is a 3 year economy rotation crop, and that dieseased trees removed and burnt, I dont think we have a diesease prolem.

In May we planted 700 banana culms inter-cropped with 1200 papaya plants, both have started to sell now, so the ig question is, would you leave the original papaya plantation,cull it, or plough it in, or even clear all the trees and plant someting else, if so what?

Thanks for your views, Lickey..

[chownah]

Lickey,

A three year rotation crop means you remove it after three years of growth I think....it doesn't mean you can prune and regrow...if it meant that I'm sure they would have said it. Of course this doesn't mean that you couldn't prune...I don't know if this would work or not but if production is your goal then it seems they are saying to pull them out if its been 3 years or even if it is less and the plants are not being productive....but again I don't know.

As to incorporating the crop residue....I know of two considerations..first how difficult is it to do this...if its difficult then remove or burn it...second if there is disease present will incorporating the residue increase risk for subsequent crops...if so then remove or burn. I guess for me it seems that the difficulty of breaking up the stalks and incorporating would outweigh the minimal benefit. I think that there will not be much nutrient value in the stalks....I would consider that getting a good weed kill at cultivation and then seeding some legume would be infinitely more beneficial than incorporating the stalks so it is probably best to not let the stalks interfere with or delay the efficiency of weed kill and legume seeding.

I don't know for sure if papaya stalks have nutrient value or not but my guess is that they don't.

Chownah

[Gary A]

I'd guess we have more than twenty papaya trees around the house and garden. I'd guess there are several different varieties because some are short and some very tall. Once in a while one just falls over. I cut it in several pieces and drag to the compost pile. Within about six months there is not much left other than some stringy looking residue. They are more like big weeds rather than trees.

[Somtham]

Just had a Ford come in and plow under the chiles and Makuas and .....weeds!! The makua ended up growing ok but the price hovered around B4-5 and didn't make the effort worth it. The chiles were very profitable but a lot of work to pick and dry. So, when the Ford driver was finished I asked him what to plant and he said "Khao phot tom". He told me that 45 days from planting to harvesting would yield B6K+ per rai profit with no picking involved. Let the factory guys come in and pick and all you have to do is weigh what they pick. In discussions now with the wife if we should give it a try.

If what he says is true I would knock down the papayas. Put them in the compost pile as Gary suggests and try the corn. 9 rai x 6k is a cool 36k per month. From what I've seen at the neighbors, corn looks pretty low maintenance.

rgds

[chownah]

Somthan,

I know that "Khao phot" means corn but what is "Khao phot tom"?

Chownah

[Somtham]

Somthan,

I know that "Khao phot" means corn but what is "Khao phot tom"?

Chownah

Long O on the tom. Maybe I should have written tome, as in to boil. Anyway, I think it's just what we would call sweetcorn.

rgds

[chownah]

I asked at Maejo University about growing high quality hybrid sweet corn and they said to plant two seeds every 50 cm in the row with rows spaced 75 cm. This would yield about 5 plants per square metre so that would mean about 8,000 plants per rai and there will be one marketable ear per plant so you would get 8,000 ears of corn per rai. If you sold these for 1 baht per ear you would get 8,000 baht per rai. Do you think that someone will come and do all the picking on 9 rai of corn and then pay 1 baht per ear? Seems high to me...but I don't know.

Chownah

Edited October 2, 2007 by chownah

[Gary A]

There must be many different varieties of sweet corn available here. We have about a rai of it and my wife is really happy with how it has grown. She cooked me about 8 ears of it. I would have called it a total failure. Short little ears about six inches long. She quite emphatically informed me that that's the size it is supposed to be and that it is a good crop. She says the bigger ears are not sweet. I will admit that they are quite tasty. The vendors cook them and sell them for about two baht each so it is possible the farmer could get one baht but not likely as far as I can see.

[Lickey]

We did try 3 rai of sweetcorn in amongst the tamarind orchard, with the same result as Gary, but i think this is to be expected, I think SAP called it 'dry' sweetcorn growing, I really cant remember how much it sold for, but i do remember being very dissapointed with the price.

When the rice harvest is all done, some locals plant sweetcorn in the paddys and sometimes water it from the nearby river when really dry, you can almost watch it grow!! And the end result is what i call sweetcorn!! 8/9 inches long 2in dia, Microwave on high till tender, add a knob of butter, freshly ground black pepper, Beautiful!! sorry, got side-tracked there.....

Mrs just come home, we sold the small corn, 100ears 65bht, the big corn on market is 5bht 1 ear, and she is pretty sure the big corn wont grow very well on our hillside farm,but is going to try a few seeds where the rainwater collects in some places, Mrs also mentioned squashes, the 2 rai we had grew and sold well, and i think total land clearance would be nessasary because again as Gary says, the trunks take a long while to decompose and perhaps cause some diesease while doing so?,

Thanks for your input gentlemen, Lickey,

[SAP]

At the moment Maize corn is good money, and the easiest to grow, but still low return.

If you want to grow sweet corn get the variety Hybrix 3 from Pacific or ATS 5 or SG25 from syngenta. If you pump the fertilizer on the Hybrix 3 (price is about 850bt/kg of seed) you can 3 ton and even 4 ton per rai. What ever row spacing 75 cm to 90 cm it doesn't matter just plant about 10,000 seeds per rai. Better planted by hand to get even spacing. I would not recommend using a Thai planting machine.

[Somtham]

I asked at Maejo University about growing high quality hybrid sweet corn and they said to plant two seeds every 50 cm in the row with rows spaced 75 cm. This would yield about 5 plants per square metre so that would mean about 8,000 plants per rai and there will be one marketable ear per plant so you would get 8,000 ears of corn per rai. If you sold these for 1 baht per ear you would get 8,000 baht per rai. Do you think that someone will come and do all the picking on 9 rai of corn and then pay 1 baht per ear? Seems high to me...but I don't know.

Chownah

The wife thinks the seed comes from Switzerland and the Ajinomoto folks will come and pick it. All you have to do is weigh what they pick and put the money in your pocket :-) .......and pay for the tilling, seeds, water system, electric bill and fertilizer!!!

rgds

[chownah]

I asked at Maejo University about growing high quality hybrid sweet corn and they said to plant two seeds every 50 cm in the row with rows spaced 75 cm. This would yield about 5 plants per square metre so that would mean about 8,000 plants per rai and there will be one marketable ear per plant so you would get 8,000 ears of corn per rai. If you sold these for 1 baht per ear you would get 8,000 baht per rai. Do you think that someone will come and do all the picking on 9 rai of corn and then pay 1 baht per ear? Seems high to me...but I don't know.

Chownah

The wife thinks the seed comes from Switzerland and the Ajinomoto folks will come and pick it. All you have to do is weigh what they pick and put the money in your pocket :-) .......and pay for the tilling, seeds, water system, electric bill and fertilizer!!!

rgds

Sounds like a good deal if the price is right and their quality requirements are not too high...does your wife have a firm quote on the price they are paying??. Ajinomoto is a well known company so I guess they would honor their contract......corn seeds from Switzerland doesn't seem right at all.....maybe a Swiss company but I really doubt the seed was raised in Switzerland....but I guess it is possible.

Chownah

[SAP]

Switzland Co??

Sygnenta is from where? I know its European, and their variety SG75 is most popular for processing, I can assure you all the seed production is done in Thailand. Last I heard the sweet corn factories were paying 2.5-4bt/kg depending on where you are.

[roietjimmy]

I'm not a farmer but always interested in viewing this forum. Given you are discussing corn, could you tell me what variety of corn I have been buying from the roadside vendors near Pak Chong? I find it extremely tasty.

[Mosha]

Switzland Co??

Sygnenta is from where? I know its European, and their variety SG75 is most popular for processing, I can assure you all the seed production is done in Thailand. Last I heard the sweet corn factories were paying 2.5-4bt/kg depending on where you are.

Syngenta are a Swiss company formed out of merging Astra Zeneca's agro chemicals side with Novartis's Agro chemical business. Based in Basle, they have what was ICI's site at Huddersfeld, England where I worked before I escaped.

[Tilapia]

I can only say, that the info I get from around the world, regarding raw material for animal feed, that there will be a shortage of soy-bean, the price in Thailand has increased wit 30% over the last 2 month, and it is still going up.

I dont know if soy-bean can be grown in Thailand, but if it can, I think it would be worth a try.

Regards

[Gary A]

I can only say, that the info I get from around the world, regarding raw material for animal feed, that there will be a shortage of soy-bean, the price in Thailand has increased wit 30% over the last 2 month, and it is still going up.

I dont know if soy-bean can be grown in Thailand, but if it can, I think it would be worth a try.

Regards

There are now quite a few soybeans grown around here. We have a couple rai of them and they look pretty good. They harvest them by hand, yanking out the whole plant, drying them and then use a rice harvester mounted on the back of a tractor for threshing. They are sown solid, as in no rows. I'd say they are planted too thick but time will tell.

[chownah]

I can only say, that the info I get from around the world, regarding raw material for animal feed, that there will be a shortage of soy-bean, the price in Thailand has increased wit 30% over the last 2 month, and it is still going up.

I dont know if soy-bean can be grown in Thailand, but if it can, I think it would be worth a try.

Regards

There are now quite a few soybeans grown around here. We have a couple rai of them and they look pretty good. They harvest them by hand, yanking out the whole plant, drying them and then use a rice harvester mounted on the back of a tractor for threshing. They are sown solid, as in no rows. I'd say they are planted too thick but time will tell.

Gary A,

What kind of soybeans are you growing? Soybeans are day length sensitive and different varieties are grown at different times of the year. Around here people always seem to plant soybeans in January...if you are growing some now then probably they are a different kind. I've been trying to find out about the different kinds grown in Thailand but have had no luck so far so I'm hoping you know the variety you are growing.

Chownah

[Loom]

I can only say, that the info I get from around the world, regarding raw material for animal feed, that there will be a shortage of soy-bean, the price in Thailand has increased wit 30% over the last 2 month, and it is still going up.

I dont know if soy-bean can be grown in Thailand, but if it can, I think it would be worth a try.

Regards

A lot of land was expected to be diverted to growing corn because of increasing demand for ethanol (globally). So that could explain higher prices if fewer soybeans are being planted.

Based on the stats from the Thai Office of Ag Economics, soybeans were among the poorest yielding crops in Thailand. For 10 years ending 2003 the average yield per rai was 230kgs with a average annual value of Bt2,160. They grow pretty fast so depending on water availability could be grown 2-3 times a year. But I don't know if 230kgs is from one or more harvests per year.

[Somtham]

There are quite a number of soybean farms in KPP located in both the flatlands an up in the foothills. They must be harvesting now because there are dozens of roadside stands selling them now.

Tilapia - what are you paying for soybean meal now?

rgds

[Tilapia]

There are quite a number of soybean farms in KPP located in both the flatlands an up in the foothills. They must be harvesting now because there are dozens of roadside stands selling them now.

Tilapia - what are you paying for soybean meal now?

rgds

Hi Somtham.

To freaking much...................... 14.57 baht/kg

Regards

[Somtham]

There are quite a number of soybean farms in KPP located in both the flatlands an up in the foothills. They must be harvesting now because there are dozens of roadside stands selling them now.

Tilapia - what are you paying for soybean meal now?

rgds

Hi Somtham.

To freaking much...................... 14.57 baht/kg

Regards

A local I've been buying feed from is paying 12.1 for full fat soybean meal and 16.4 for defatted soybean meal. fyi

rgds

[Lickey]

Thanks everybody, ive got a plan forming now, its going to be Soya beans and winged beans, Soya because you pull the whole plant out and winged because it puts goodness back into soil when ploughed in, and both crops sell, not a get rich quick scheme but there are a lot of livestock farmers around here and winged [tue prue] sell on the local market,

I rekon if i rotate these crops for a year or so, the ground would be re-vitalized for another new Papaya plantation, which is what we are really geared up for, Irrigation not a problem,

Regards, Lickey.

[Gary A]

I can only say, that the info I get from around the world, regarding raw material for animal feed, that there will be a shortage of soy-bean, the price in Thailand has increased wit 30% over the last 2 month, and it is still going up.

I dont know if soy-bean can be grown in Thailand, but if it can, I think it would be worth a try.

Regards

There are now quite a few soybeans grown around here. We have a couple rai of them and they look pretty good. They harvest them by hand, yanking out the whole plant, drying them and then use a rice harvester mounted on the back of a tractor for threshing. They are sown solid, as in no rows. I'd say they are planted too thick but time will tell.

Gary A,

What kind of soybeans are you growing? Soybeans are day length sensitive and different varieties are grown at different times of the year. Around here people always seem to plant soybeans in January...if you are growing some now then probably they are a different kind. I've been trying to find out about the different kinds grown in Thailand but have had no luck so far so I'm hoping you know the variety you are growing.

Chownah

I have no idea what variety they are. The wife says we can only get one kind here and that's what we have.

Added - In fact to be honest, I had mentioned soybeans but had not even known that she planted them until after they were out of the ground.

Edited October 4, 2007 by Gary A