18 Mongkot

[johnnynmonic]

I was chit chatting with an old timer the other day, and caught a really weird (to me) idiom - "18 mongkot". I asked a friend what exactly it means, the best I could gather was something to the effect of if someone is 18 mongkot, they are all the way 100% bad to the bone. But another friend disputed this definition. So it doesnt make much sense at the moment. Any thoughts on the true meaning and implications, as well as etymology (mongkot has something to do with 18 parts of your spirit I think??) would be awesome. Thanks!

Oh yeah, the first time I repeated it to the friend I got it wrong and said "18 mongkut" i.e. 18 crowns. Not sure if that makes any difference to you guys, but keeps me humble

[DavidHouston]

This explanation is found on an Internet blog which was posted relatively recently:

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คำนี้มีที่มา - สิบแปดมงกุฎ

22 August 2007 19:17

คำว่า “๑๘ มงกุฎ” เป็นคำที่มีปรากฏอยู่ในรามเกียรติ์ เป็นคำเรียกของทหารที่เป็นลิงชั้นนายที่มีมงกุฎสวม ๑๘ ตัวเช่น นิลเสน นิ นนนท์ ฯลฯ ซึ่งตอนแรกก็ไม่ได้มีการนำคำนี้มาใช้เปรียบเทียบกับ การหลอกลวง หรือแก็งค์ต้มตุ๋นแต่อย่างใด

แต่ต่อมามีการนำคำนี้มาใช้ เมื่อ ๑๐๐ ปีที่แล้ว โดยใช้กับพวกนักเลงการพนัน นักเลงการพนันอย่างเดียวนะครับยังไม่ได้เหมารวมถึง พวกแก็งค์ต้มตุ๋น ซึ่งเมื่อ ๑๐๐ ปีที่แล้วมีนักเลงการพนันที่มีชื่อเสียงพวกหนึ่ง ฝีมือระดับเซียน พวกนี้จะสักตรามงกุฎ ตามร่างกาย ทาง การจึง เรียกพวกนี้ว่า ๑๘ มงกุฎตามเรื่องในรามเกียรติ์

จากนั้นมา ใครเป็นพวกนักเลงพนันใหญ่ก็จะเรียกว่า ๑๘ มงกุฎ แต่ต่อมาพวกหนังสือพิมพ์ก็เอาไปใช้กับพวกแก๊งค์ต้มตุ๋นด้วย

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Please post if you need an attempt at a translation.

[Boksida]

I was chit chatting with an old timer the other day, and caught a really weird (to me) idiom - "18 mongkot". I asked a friend what exactly it means, the best I could gather was something to the effect of if someone is 18 mongkot, they are all the way 100% bad to the bone. But another friend disputed this definition. So it doesnt make much sense at the moment. Any thoughts on the true meaning and implications, as well as etymology (mongkot has something to do with 18 parts of your spirit I think??) would be awesome. Thanks!

Oh yeah, the first time I repeated it to the friend I got it wrong and said "18 mongkut" i.e. 18 crowns. Not sure if that makes any difference to you guys, but keeps me humble

I'm disappointed you didn't get any responses as I would also like to know. I have heard the term used often, usually to describe an untrustworthy spiv or con man or a gangster without the honour sometimes attributed to such people. I have never heard a reliable description of the origin of the term though.

[yoot]

สิบแปดมงกุฎ - gangsters or people who do deceitful way of earning their's living, the eighteen chief monkey warriors of Rama.

This page has another interesting explanation but in Thai, perhaps someone might be interested in reading it.

http://www.thaitownusa.com/frontnews/frmNe...wsNo=0609000343

[Boksida]

Sorry David. I didn't realise you had already posted the answer.

[Neeranam]

สิบแปดมงกุฎ - gangsters or people who do deceitful way of earning their's living, the eighteen chief monkey warriors of Rama.

This page has another interesting explanation but in Thai, perhaps someone might be interested in reading it.

http://www.thaitownusa.com/frontnews/frmNe...wsNo=0609000343

Interesting stuff - thanks K.Yoot

[mangkorn]

Oh yeah, the first time I repeated it to the friend I got it wrong and said "18 mongkut" i.e. 18 crowns. Not sure if that makes any difference to you guys, but keeps me humble

Actually, that word for "crown" is the same spelling and pronunciation as the word used in this idiom. Who told you that you got it wrong?

[johnnynmonic]

Wow, thanks for all of the responses - the Thai article was very helpful, as well as the comment about the 18 monkeys.

Re: the spelling of crown - my spelling sucks, and I haven't gotten around to putting those little stickers on the keyboard of my notebook, but a (Thai) friend corrected me when I wrote it out for him when I was trying to learn what this little idiom meant. He told me that the way I spelled it meant crown, and corrected my spelling. I guess his spelling could just as well suck too, and I haven't checked the dictionary yet...

Thanks very much.

-Eric

[katana]

A while back I was talking to a Thai research chemist who was working on a class of chemical compounds called 18-crown ethers. As a joke, I called her SIP PAET MONGUT สิบแปดมงกุฎ and it was quickly explained to me that's not a polite word in Thai lol

[legag]

A while back I was talking to a Thai research chemist who was working on a class of chemical compounds called 18-crown ethers. As a joke, I called her SIP PAET MONGUT สิบแปดมงกุฎ and it was quickly explained to me that's not a polite word in Thai lol

Definitely not a good word to call someone unless you've been fooled and tricked by them 18-crown!!

[mangkorn]

Wow, thanks for all of the responses - the Thai article was very helpful, as well as the comment about the 18 monkeys.

Re: the spelling of crown - my spelling sucks, and I haven't gotten around to putting those little stickers on the keyboard of my notebook, but a (Thai) friend corrected me when I wrote it out for him when I was trying to learn what this little idiom meant. He told me that the way I spelled it meant crown, and corrected my spelling. I guess his spelling could just as well suck too, and I haven't checked the dictionary yet...

Thanks very much.

-Eric

It would be interesting to see how your Thai friend spelled the word, if you've still got it or can remember how he did it.

[stateman]

Re: the spelling of crown - my spelling sucks, and I haven't gotten around to putting those little stickers on the keyboard of my notebook, but a (Thai) friend corrected me when I wrote it out for him when I was trying to learn what this little idiom meant. He told me that the way I spelled it meant crown, and corrected my spelling. I guess his spelling could just as well suck too, and I haven't checked the dictionary yet...

Thanks very much.

-Eric

It would be interesting to see how your Thai friend spelled the word, if you've still got it or can remember how he did it.

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Gents, don't bother to find out what Eric's Thai friend wrote. mangkorn is right - it is the exact same word. If the Thai friend writes something differently - then he is wrong. The idiom is about the 18 crowns, which is สิบแปดมงกุฎ or 18 mongkut.

One added comment: In today's usage with a bad connotation, this term should be reserved for someone who cheat with a rather unusual method or scheme - to be 'worthy' of this term. It should not be used randomly to call every 2-bit crook.

As for katana, luckily katana didn't get slapped on the face for calling someone by that term! :--;