What A Day... I Still Love It Here !

[richard_smith237]

This might apply to more than one subject… Mod’s can decide where to locate it….

The motoring part:

I got pulled over by the jollies today; the first time in about 4 years or so…

I didn’t think I was in the wrong, so I argued my case, firmly and politely with a few ‘ai-yaaa’s’ and ‘oh-hoooorrr’s’ for my own personal entertainment…

After 5 or so minutes of ‘polite disagreement, which the h the policeman radioing back to confirm that I had indeed made a mistake (my car is not easily mistaken with others), paper and pencil came out, diagrams were drawn … I laughed, when I realized that perhaps I had made a simple traffic violation (which is a little difficult to explain without another diagram !)…

It cost me 100B, as I am off to Vietnam tomorrow and don’t have time to pay the fine through the official channels.

The police man was polite, attempted to speak English, smiled and was quite friendly to the point of being helpful !!..I left the scene after a handshake feeling amused and not even slightly as though I had been taken advantage of as a westerner (as is often the fears / points I often read about in many threads in TV).

Travel Part:

Firstly, what a moody, frumpy, stroppy woman at the Vietnamese embassy.

I didn’t think much of the majority of the treatment towards foreigners when I was in Vietnam previously. When I checked into my hotel (I cant remember the name but it was about US$100 per night and a decent looking hotel) I was told that we had to have two rooms because we were not married !!!!... (My girlfriend is Thai, a flight attendant, and stays at that hotel frequently), naturally I was furious and spoke with Management who told us that we had to book as a couple in advance (this might have something to do with preventing the hotel from getting into trouble with their local fuzz if guests bring a girlie back for the evening). In the end one room was ok. (we had to chose that hotel because my Girlfriend has to stay where her airline tells her).

My trip to the embassy was a brief reminder of what I’ll face again. This is generally a feeling of irritation because for what ever reasons I get the impression that there is almost an air of arrogance and superiority from those Vietnamese I’ve had the displeasure to come across in the past. There seems to be a reluctance to help out, of course, this is not always the case. My experience has already told me to be ‘thicker skinned this time round’…

I’m tempted not to go there, but I’m meeting my girlfriend who is flying in from Auz, I’ve not seen her for 4 weeks and I don’t want to let her down.

Thai Part:

This is a good reminder for me of how good things are in Thailand.

Yes, things maybe changing slightly – but it remains a wonderful country to be in.

For all its misgivings, people generally are much friendlier, and more polite and helpful than else where in Asia I have worked or travel to frequently.

Familiarity breeds contempt, and after long spells anywhere the little irritations, frustrations and annoyances creep in. When that happens, go to Vietnam and come back happy to be in Thailand again !

I’ve read a lot of threads and opinions of people who are fed up with Thailand and are considering a move to Malaysia or Vietnam… If I am permitted, In my opinion none of the S.E. Asian countries can compete with Thailand, I hope the visa regulations relax for many of the ‘Decent’ folk who bring something beneficial to Thailand.

[xyborg]

Nice story, good to hear.

[toptuan]

About your "travel part:"

In my opinion there is a huge gap between government officials and the average Vietnamese citizen. I get the same treatment as you at the embassy, HCMC airport customs, etc. However, once I get inside the country, I am treated like royalty (pardon the non-communist concept). I do have Vietnamese friends in HCMC, and they are the warmest, friendliest, and most self-sacrificing hosts I have ever enjoyed in my travels to 30 countries. In my trips to the markets, hotels, and cafes, I enjoy the warmest of hospitality.

Maybe you're just going to all the wrong places?

By the way, the normal citizen of Vietnam also chafes under the same cold, bureaucratic, moody government officials that you do. If you spend any time at all getting to know the Vietnamese as personal friends, this "thorn under their saddle" will eventually be discussed with you. They hate it more than you do, believe me. This attitude of government "servants" is born of a regime which devalues human rights and human life, not unlike Burma (present treatment of citizens), and China (Tienneman Square 1989, current Falung Gung member crackdown, etc.).

Edited October 3, 2007 by toptuan

[uptou]

This is generally a feeling of irritation because for what ever reasons I get the impression that there is almost an air of arrogance and superiority from those Vietnamese I've had the displeasure to come across in the past.

I'm not painting a whole country with the same brush,but going by personal experience,i did feel this on a few occasions,but given Vietnams history with foreign invaders i'm sometimes surprised they let anyone in at all.

quote richard_smith237."Familiarity breeds contempt, and after long spells anywhere the little irritations, frustrations and annoyances creep in. When that happens, go to Vietnam and come back happy to be in Thailand again !"

I think you may be right there.I may go one step further & go back to blighty.

[JonnyF]

I had a similar experience re. Vietnam. I went for a month last October and people tried to rip me off at every turn. Just a couple of examples, I went to fill the motorbike at least 10 times and they tried to shortchange me on all but one occasion. A couple of times I arranged taxis from hotels to airports and paid the hotel the fare in advance, and both times the driver tried to charge me again (even though it was obvious to both of us that I had paid already as he backed down very quickly when I refused to pay). I could give at least 20 more examples and I was there only 30 days. Much less friendly that Thailand...

Anyone who gets fed up with Thailand would do well to spend a month there, it really puts things in perspective. I rarely get overcharged here or face any real hassle but it was happening a few times a day for the whole month. I've never been as happy to be in Thailand as when I landed back in BKK from Hanoi. If there's an equivalent to TV (maybe Vietnam Visa) I'd bet the posters are even more bitter than the lot on here

[Ulysses G.]

I lived in Hanoi for about a year and found the people to be very warm and sincere when you really got to know them.

The Southerners are more like many Thais - outwardly more friendly but looking for a payoff and not much else.

[JonnyF]

I lived in Hanoi for about a year and found the people to be very warm and sincere when you really got to know them.

The Southerners are more like many Thais - outwardly more friendly but looking for a payoff and not much else.

Unfortunately I was only there for a month so wasn't able to get know anyone very well. I'd agree that the North seemed a bit friendlier than the South but by the time I got to Hanoi I was counting the days before I could get back to Thailand!!

Having said that, I still found Hanoi quite annoying - I was approached by various charlatans trying to extract money from me through a multitude of transparent schemes. It wasn't a major problem as it was so obvious, but it got tedious after a while - I wanted to enjoy the place and not spend my time talking to amateur conmen...

[uptou]

I remember the women of Vietnam being very easy on the eye,long limbed,great skin tone,but they didnt smile as much as in thailand,& always seemed to look at me like they wanted to stab me,rather than a look that they wanted me to stab them. Also the street food was a dissapointment,but i guess anywhere will be in that department after thailand.

Edited October 3, 2007 by uptou

[richard_smith237]

Firstly, what a moody, frumpy, stroppy woman at the Vietnamese embassy.

Sounds like the same woman who was working there last year. She's probably caused a few people to scrap their trips to Vietnam for her rudeness alone. She's right up there with the Thai embassy staff in Phnom Penh and the immigration officers at LAX. I'll definitely be using a travel agent to get the visa for my next trip to Vietnam.

Lets suggest to her... "Smile, you should be happy you're not in Vietnam"

[pete_r]

This is generally a feeling of irritation because for what ever reasons I get the impression that there is almost an air of arrogance and superiority from those Vietnamese I’ve had the displeasure to come across in the past. There seems to be a reluctance to help out, of course, this is not always the case.

Maybe Vietnamese (and Thais) get similar impressions when they apply for visas at embassies of Western countries...

On another note, I share the general feeling that Thailand is far ahead of Vietnam for making visitors feel welcome. The Thai industrial sector may look at Vietnam warily, but the tourism sector has little to fear.

[kmart]

Must be something in the water supply over there. Agent Orange probably.

[adjan jb]

I lived in Hanoi for about a year

At the Hilton circa 1970 ?

[siam2007]

I lived in Hanoi for about a year and found the people to be very warm and sincere when you really got to know them.

The Southerners are more like many Thais - outwardly more friendly but looking for a payoff and not much else.

sorry but I cannot agree with that, because its HANOI that has a reputation for rip-offs since ages. HCMC is completely different and much much better. and Vietnamese people (except the residents of HN, of course) will tell u the same as do the Xpats of VN (I have quite a lot of Western friends who live there). That said, there will always be con-artists and overchargers at places where a lot of tourists gather around...

and Vietnam is mostly a package-tour-destination for (usually not-so-young) folks with little experience in Asia. they sometimes wont even realize they have been ripped off...

I am sure the OP has been to Hanoi, which I hate , not HCMC (which I like). indeed the people in VN are so courteous, helpful and friendly that it sometimes may seem unreal.... the other extreme is the OFFICIAL side of VN..... its still a socialist country (though one of the most stable countries in the world), and the "boys in Khaki" wanna make u remember that at any occasion..... but usually people dont have much to do with authorities, except when entering or leaving a country, but u will always have that "being under the radar" - feeling which is not nice....

I nevertheless look forward to return to LOS soon, but unfortunately they dont want me, my crime/verdict is: being under 50 years of age....

oh, I would like to add my experience with a Viet Consulate (not embassy, though) abroad : Applied for the VN Visa in GuangZhou, handed over the application in the morning around 10.30, got it back with the Visa same day 16.45. express fee applied, but almost not more expensive than applying for the regular procedure (3-4 working days, couldnt afford to wait so long in nasty Guangzhou) in several other Asian countries, or in my European home country.... still ludicrously expensive, though

Edited October 4, 2007 by siam2007