Dimmer Switches

[quiksilva]

Ok I have been told that to install a dimmer switch is not as straight forward as I thought.

The situation. We currently have 4 lights controlled by a triple light switch

e.g.

Not mine

Where starting from the left

Switch 1 = Dining table

Switch 2 = Pantry and Picture Light

Switch 3 = Stairway Lights

I really dislike the current setup (two lights on one switch) and would like to have some mood lighting at dinner.

So I would like to add a dimmer switch to control the lighting at the table, which should allow me to have the following arrangement:-

+ Dimmer = Dining table

Switch 1 = Pantry

Switch 2 = Picture light

Switch 3 = Stairway lights

I thought this could be accomplished fairly easily: i.e. turn off electricity, unwire switches 1 + 2 from the triple switch, install dimmer using wires from switch 1, and split pantry and picture lights to the switches 1 & 2 respectively.

However, the contractors are telling me that they would need to rewire the dining lights and would need make holes in ceiling etc etc.

I cant imagine why this would be or am I missing something?

[Crossy]

I don't think you're missing anything.

To add a dimmer to the dining light you should simply replace the on/off switch with a 2 wire dimmer switch (as you say). Hardly rocket science. Assuming of course you've not got two-way switching.

I wonder if there is something lost in translation, maybe they're having trouble splitting the pantry / picture lights meaning they'll need to run another cable?

It may be wise to divide the job to avoid confusion:-

1. Install dimmer
   
2. Split pantry / picture
   

Of course, without actually seeing how your lights are wired anything can apply, remember we are in Thailand

[yeti]

Try to have a look at the switch 2 and see if 4 cables are connected to it (that would be good and easy) or only 2 (then it means that pantry and picture lights are connected together before arriving to the switch, and u may need to rewire).

One thing to keep in ming about dimmers: they are not good with energy saving bulbs.

[quiksilva]

Thanks for that, yes I had heard that about the energy saving bulbs (I wonder why that is, I know you cant use fluorescents..?) but anyway I suppose by dimming the lights we'd save energy too

[Crossy]

Thanks for that, yes I had heard that about the energy saving bulbs (I wonder why that is, I know you cant use fluorescents..?) but anyway I suppose by dimming the lights we'd save energy too

Energy Saving Bulbs are actually small fluorescent fittings with electronic ballasts, they sometimes get called Compact Fluorescent Lamps (CFLs). You can get dimmable ones, but they're not cheap (actually bl00dy expensive) and IMHO don't really dim very well anyway

[Iolare]

Thanks for that, yes I had heard that about the energy saving bulbs (I wonder why that is, I know you cant use fluorescents..?) but anyway I suppose by dimming the lights we'd save energy too

Energy Saving Bulbs are actually small fluorescent fittings with electronic ballasts, they sometimes get called Compact Fluorescent Lamps (CFLs). You can get dimmable ones, but they're not cheap (actually bl00dy expensive) and IMHO don't really dim very well anyway

I’m noticing that the trend seems to be toward energy efficient fluorescent lights in new construction these days, but I really don’t like the quality of the light compared to incandescent bulbs. I also want to be able to dim most of the lights in the house I’m about to build. I’m wondering if incandescent fixtures are in danger of becoming obsolete. What do you recommend?

[Crossy]

Incandescent lamps are incredibly inefficient.

Improved CFL dimming technology and colours are making them more acceptable for domestic use.

I doubt that regular bulbs are going to die any time soon, although they may become harder to get. CFLs fit in the normal fittings anyway so I'd not worry, you'll not have to re-fit your house if regular bulbs become impossible to obtain.

[batami]

If there are four cables to the center switch then run two cables to switch 1.

buy and position a dimmer switch to the left of the current switches (with the box and switch, you will need to cut out the hole in the wall for the swithch box to sit in), run cable presently going to switch 1 into the dimmer switch box and connect. reassemble and there you have it .

the only snag is (a) you only have two wires to switch to as a previous poster has said and ( the wiring is run so tight that you cannot pull the 5-8 cm needed to go into the dimmer switch box through the ducting. In that case you will need to use a cable connection inside the light switch box - but as these are small should be no prob

hope it all made sense

good luck

[elkangorito]

Another tip...ignore the nonsensical posts (there are 2). Crossy, you are not included .

Edited October 4, 2007 by elkangorito

[popshirt]

Incandescent bulbs are so twentieth century! I am visiting the US and it seems everyone is changing over to fluorescent, there are many different kinds and some give a soft light very unlike the ones one finds in commercial places. Dimming may be achieved by using less wattage, turning some lights off, the use of candles or oil lamps when setting a "mood". We will see the day when incandescent bulbs are almost a relic of the past, says I.

[elkangorito]

Incandescent bulbs are so twentieth century! I am visiting the US and it seems everyone is changing over to fluorescent, there are many different kinds and some give a soft light very unlike the ones one finds in commercial places. Dimming may be achieved by using less wattage, turning some lights off, the use of candles or oil lamps when setting a "mood". We will see the day when incandescent bulbs are almost a relic of the past, says I.

Unfortunately for you, incandescant globes make a vast majority of "general" lighting...halogen being the most common & widely used. They have a specific purpose & as such, will not become "relics".

Another tip...ignore the nonsensical posts (there are 2). Crossy, you are not included .

Make that 3.

[suiging]

Not a technical person at all, but from experience, my house in the lovely Pong with dimer switches===Nightmare.

Bulbs banging at very regular intervals. Take the dimmers out==Harmony, no more problem.

No idea why. It just happened.

[quiksilva]

Well we will find out later today, unfortunately was pressed for time so the Mrs to it upon herself to get a bloke in (very un-DIY). Anyway I have asked her to take a picture of the switch when the chap comes around this morning.

She understands the basic premise enough, install dimmer + split pantry / picture light, if possible.

BTW - I was listening to the Chris Evans podcast this week (BBC Radio 2). He had the UK's minister for the environment in, saying that they will be phasing out incandescents bulbs in the UK over the coming years (as much as possible anyway). Most of the major retailers are backing the plan as they know that Europe is moving that direction too. So expect to see far fewer on the shelves going forward.

Trivia: They reckon that incandescents waste 95% of their energy in the form of heat, and there are still no useful alternatives to Halogens etc.

Thanks for all the help chaps!

Edited October 5, 2007 by quiksilva

[dave111223]

We installed a dimmer switch in the bedroom. It was wired up no differently than the rest of the lights.

The bulbs do blow on a regular basis . There are 4 bulbs on the dimmer switch i have had 3 go in the last year, whereas i have yet to have an energy saving bulb go in the rest of the condo.

Oh well bulbs are pretty cheap, and i am still glad i installed the dimmer.

[elkangorito]

We installed a dimmer switch in the bedroom. It was wired up no differently than the rest of the lights.

The bulbs do blow on a regular basis . There are 4 bulbs on the dimmer switch i have had 3 go in the last year, whereas i have yet to have an energy saving bulb go in the rest of the condo.

Oh well bulbs are pretty cheap, and i am still glad i installed the dimmer.

Are your dimmers electronic?

[Langsuan Man]

Not chime in here but I have just installed two dimmer switches in my very old condo, both were just simple replacement of the on / off switch in the wall plate. The one in the bedroom dims dual halogen type bulbs (220V). The living room one is just one of three on / off switches. Luckily the other two were two way switches but the fixture that I wanted to control was just a single.

But this dimmer, dims a converter that drops the 220 V wire voltage down to 12 V for halogen bulbs in a set of cable lights (3 X 20 watts).

I have a similar system in the US where I use a dimmer to lower a 110 to 12 volt converter and it has been in use for 10 plus years and the bulb failure rate is not that often.

The dimmers I am using here are incredible since they are as small as the switches that they replaced and are obviously rheostat and not digital. (plus they were only 120 THB at a mom and pop electronics store).

Only time will tell if I have problems with my set up here.

LSM

[Lickey]

We have 10 rooms fitted with turn-knob dimmer switches, on the switch it says max 600 watt, and when its turned off there is a small orange light to let you know where they are in the dark, now if the lights are low, the switch gets very warm, not painfully or dangerous, but to my mind, anything that gets warm with electricity means its using electricity and perhaps in a wasteful way, could somebody cofirm or deny this please? Thanks, Lickey.

[Naam]

We have 10 rooms fitted with turn-knob dimmer switches, on the switch it says max 600 watt, and when its turned off there is a small orange light to let you know where they are in the dark, now if the lights are low, the switch gets very warm, not painfully or dangerous, but to my mind, anything that gets warm with electricity means its using electricity and perhaps in a wasteful way, could somebody cofirm or deny this please? Thanks, Lickey.

confirmed! i tried to buy rather expensive energy saving (phase shifting) dimmers. unfortunately not available in Thailand.

[tjo o tjim]

The biggest problem with using CFLs in Thailand is that people over-light spaces something gawdawful. You do need bright light some times, but most of the time you only want 15-20% lighting. (Main exception is right after sunset or when cleaning.) The second major problem is that light fixtures are intended mainly to provide a place to install a lamp, not to provide light on a surface in the room. Reflectors are miserable quality and worse engineering.

Try to find high color-temperature (warm white) bulbs (not easy in LOS), and use indirect light with ceilings painted with hints of red to make the space feel more human.

As to the OP, the likely problem is as others stated is that the two lights in the center are wired together, downstream of the switch. Also, never try to dim CFLs with standard dimmers; it works a little on some, but drastically reduces the life. Try to find dimmable ballasts and look into a Lutron Grafik Eye system if you have more complicated needs. One extra wire will give you addressable dimming capabilities for each fixture.

[Lickey]

We have 10 rooms fitted with turn-knob dimmer switches, on the switch it says max 600 watt, and when its turned off there is a small orange light to let you know where they are in the dark, now if the lights are low, the switch gets very warm, not painfully or dangerous, but to my mind, anything that gets warm with electricity means its using electricity and perhaps in a wasteful way, could somebody cofirm or deny this please? Thanks, Lickey.

confirmed! i tried to buy rather expensive energy saving (phase shifting) dimmers. unfortunately not available in Thailand.

Thankyou Naam for confirming this, the alternate light is a circular flurescent fitted in all the rooms, this is harsh and not a Television light, or romantic come to that, so me and the missus are going to get the carpenters working on her farm to lathe up some tamarind branches and make some table lights ect,got to be better than 4 bulbs on a dimmer, Cheers Lickey..