Help! Didn't Know I Needed Re-entry Permit

[thaitanic]

I'm British and I have a work permit as managing director and 49% shareholder of a Thai limited company in Phuket.

I had a multiple entry non-immigrant B visa from Hull that had to be used by 23rd August 2007.

I entered Thailand on 13th August and was given a "VISA CLASS non-B" stamp admitting me until 10th November 2007.

My work permit was then also extended until 10th November 2007.

I left for a trip to Indonesia on 6th September 2007. I did not get a re-entry permit as I did not know this was necessary. I thought that rule only applied to 1-year extensions to visas.

I returned to Thailand yesterday, 3rd October, assuming I would again be stamped with a "VISA CLASS non-B" stamp admitting me until 10th November 2007 as before, but the immigration officials told me I should have got a re-entry permit and gave me only a "VISA CLASS TR 30" stamp admitting me until 1st November 2007.

I have already booked a non-changeable Air Asia flight to KL for 5th to 8th November to get a new multiple-entry non-immigrant B visa, but of course that is now 4 days after my Thailand admitted date.

Questions:

1. Am I right to think that "TR 30" written on my stamp now means it's just a tourist visa, not business visa?

2. Does this mean that my work permit is now invalid?

3. Am I obliged to tell the labour department about this?

4. How soon do I have to tell the labour department?

5. Will I have to apply all over again for a new work permit?

6. Should I be able to get a 1-week tourist visa extension in Patong to at least get me to my flight date of 5th November?

Thanks a lot for any advice.

[lopburi3]

Your visa expired on 23 August. Only the re-entry permit would have kept the 10 November date alive. You have been provided the only entry available for your nationality without a visa - a 30 day visa exempt entry stamp. Your work permit is invalid and can not be validated on that entry.

1. It means you are categorized as a tourist. The entry is visa exempt. You can not work.

2. Yes.

3. How can you avoid it - they will see it when you try to renew I would suspect.

4. Have no knowledge but suspect 7 days would be the max.

5. That may depend on the official but have no knowledge.

6. Although 7 days may be possible I would think you might want to get legal again before that date if you can. As you now do not have a legal work permit do not believe you will be obtaining a multi entry visa from KL so expect you will have to get single entry/return for work permit/exit for multi entry.

[digitalchromakey]

Your visa expired on 23 August. Only the re-entry permit would have kept the 10 November date alive. You have been provided the only entry available for your nationality without a visa - a 30 day visa exempt entry stamp. Your work permit is invalid and can not be validated on that entry.

1. It means you are categorized as a tourist. The entry is visa exempt. You can not work.

2. Yes.

3. How can you avoid it - they will see it when you try to renew I would suspect.

4. Have no knowledge but suspect 7 days would be the max.

5. That may depend on the official but have no knowledge.

6. Although 7 days may be possible I would think you might want to get legal again before that date if you can. As you now do not have a legal work permit do not believe you will be obtaining a multi entry visa from KL so expect you will have to get single entry/return for work permit/exit for multi entry.

A friend of mine had the same problem last year.

Our local Labour Dept need signed photocopies of the relevant pages from your passport (inc new entry stamp and current visa). His 30 day stamp was not on the same page as either his subsequent 90 day entry or new 1 year non B visa. The new 90 day entry was before the WP expired.

Thaitanic, my friend was lucky and got away with it. Write off your current Air Asia ticket to experience and go to Penang to try for a new 1 year multiple non B Visa as soon as possible before your 30 day stamp runs out. Also you can now fly directly from Phuket to Penang on Firefly.

Edited October 4, 2007 by digitalchromakey

[Super Hans]

Where do you get re-entry permits?

[lopburi3]

From Immigration. Either in towns/border or at airport after check-in but prior to immigration check.

[Big A]

..... I did not get a re-entry permit as I did not know this was necessary. I thought that rule only applied to 1-year extensions to visas.

That's what I thought as well!! I am on a Non O multiple entry and have not needed a re-entry permit for my comings and goings.

Edited October 4, 2007 by Big A

[lopburi3]

His visa was not valid for entry. To keep his stay in such a situation he would have required a re-entry permit or have obtained a new visa for entry and a new 90 day stay.

[george]

You can actually save the WP if you contact Labour Department and tell them about the situation. But be quick. And then travel quick to get a new NON-B, and then update the WP with labour dept again. Voila!

[thaitanic]

Thanks very much for all the helpful replies.

I'm tempted to try DigitalChromaKey's method and try to get away with it. The 30-day tourist stamp is actually about 4 pages before where a new visa and 90-day non-B entry stamp would probably be. And I doubt they're connected to the immigration computer system. Would be a bit of a worry though as I seem to remember they do have a flick through the passport when you apply.

But on reflection and on George's advice I'll probably go down to the Labour Department tomorrow and come clean and plead with them. I'm not really working at the moment so it's not the end of the world if I have to start from scratch.

However they cancelled my work permit last year when they changed policy in Phuket about allowing renewals on the Monday if the permit expired over the weekend. I pleaded with the top man and he actually agreed to let me renew, but then the people downstairs in the office cancelled it anyway because "they didn't want a strange entry in their book". So I'm not expecting much mercy.

A further question... if I have no work permit, can I still sign tax and social security papers as the company managing director, or do I need to appoint a stand-in until I've got a work permit again?

[thaitanic]

..... I did not get a re-entry permit as I did not know this was necessary. I thought that rule only applied to 1-year extensions to visas.

That's what I thought as well!! I am on a Non O multiple entry and have not needed a re-entry permit for my comings and goings.

Big A, this only applies to trips abroad after the "must be utilized before" date on your visa (but before the "admitted until" date on your last entry stamp prior to the "must be utilized before" date. I hope that makes sense.

You don't need a re-entry permit for normal comings and goings that occur before the "must be utilized before" date.

Most people working the system like me won't fall into this trap unless they travel abroad frequently. I've been on multiple-entry non-B's for a few years and thought I knew the system fairly well and it's taken me this long to get caught out by taking an ill-timed trip abroad without getting the re-entry permit.

[CosmicSurfer]

..... I did not get a re-entry permit as I did not know this was necessary. I thought that rule only applied to 1-year extensions to visas.

That's what I thought as well!! I am on a Non O multiple entry and have not needed a re-entry permit for my comings and goings.

Big A, this only applies to trips abroad after the "must be utilized before" date on your visa (but before the "admitted until" date on your last entry stamp prior to the "must be utilized before" date. I hope that makes sense.

You don't need a re-entry permit for normal comings and goings that occur before the "must be utilized before" date.

Most people working the system like me won't fall into this trap unless they travel abroad frequently. I've been on multiple-entry non-B's for a few years and thought I knew the system fairly well and it's taken me this long to get caught out by taking an ill-timed trip abroad without getting the re-entry permit.

OK...Thaitanic.. Now you have me totally confused....

A One-Year Mult-Entry Visa means exactly that.. Multiple (as many as you want) entries.. all done BEFORE the Expiry date as Entered on the ORIGINAL VISA...with a maximum individual stay of 90 days... and NO Re-Entry permit is required as long as you leave with-in the 90-day window and re-enter Before the Visa expiry... Stay length otherwise doesn't matter.. How many Times you leave and enter doesn't matter... as long as you don't stay longer than 90 days. NO Re-Entry permit required.. Your VISA already covers that by being a "Multi"-entry... Re-Entry permits are Only required for Extension of Stay on your Visa, or 90-Day Single Entry Visa, when you need to leave and want to come back on the SAME Visa.

The only thing that happens when you leave on a Multi-Entry is that the 90-Day "clock" is reset with every entry... starting again on the date of the newest entry... Don't think of it as a re-entry.. easier to think of it as a "New" Entry on an Existing, Valid Visa.

Which allows you to get the extra 90 days at the VISA end by Leaving and returning On the Last Visa Date BEFORE Expiry... Turning a One-Year Visa into a 15 -Month stay.

Of course, this is all true unless the Moon is made of Green Cheese and the Sky is Falling.. but being as this is Thailand... anyrthing is posible....

TIT

CS

[thaitanic]

Sorry to confuse you CosmicSurfer. It's very difficult to explain the situation in easy language.

I agree with everything you say.

My problem occurs because I made a trip abroad during the extra 90 days at the VISA end, for which apparently you do need a re-entry permit if you want to retain the previously stamped admitted date and non-B status.

Anyway, can anyone tell me if I can sign tax and social security papers while my work permit is suspended?

[lopburi3]

You can not work without a work permit so the answer I fear is no you can not sign paperwork as an official of the company.

You need a valid visa to enter - his visa was not valid for entry after August 23. He required a re-entry permit to enter/keep his last permitted to stay until date.

[thaitanic]

Went down to the Phuket Labour Department today and told a young guy there all about the situation. He went off to see the director and came back and said no problem, I can still work and can renew as late as 9th November as long as I have a new non-B visa by that time.

Now for the best bit... he went on to blame immigration for the situation. He said they should have realised my position and given me a non-B stamp (I enjoyed hearing that so much that I'm almost prepared to forgive them the special "release fee" I was charged for my first work permit).

So I'm planning to get a 7 day extension at Patong Beach and then go to KL as planned on 5th November and apply for a multiple-entry non-immigrant B visa, as I've successfully obtained twice from there before.

Thanks for everyone's help!

[johnnyk]

Be sure to "take care" the official and his director. Children's school fees are expensive....

[CosmicSurfer]

Sorry to confuse you CosmicSurfer. It's very difficult to explain the situation in easy language.

I agree with everything you say.

My problem occurs because I made a trip abroad during the extra 90 days at the VISA end, for which apparently you do need a re-entry permit if you want to retain the previously stamped admitted date and non-B status.

Your VISA already covers that by being a "Multi"-entry... Re-Entry permits are Only required for Extension of Stay on your Visa, or 90-Day Single Entry Visa, when you need to leave and want to come back on the SAME Visa.

The only thing that happens when you leave on a Multi-Entry is that the 90-Day "clock" is reset with every entry... starting again on the date of the newest entry... Don't think of it as a re-entry.. easier to think of it as a "New" Entry on an Existing, Valid Visa.

I guess we were talking about the same thing, but using different language to describe it...

Bottom line is.. If you exiting within a 90-day visa period, On a multi-entry Visa, THAT EXPIRES WITHIN this last 90-day visa period validity that you are currently in, and therefore no longer usable at the end of this current period,and you wish to re-enter within the same current period, and AFTER the "Visa" EXPIRY DATE, BUT without jepordising your existing 90-day visa period and without getting a new VISA, THEN you must get an Re-Entry permit.

Phewwww, What a Mouthfull... Clarity at last.

Good Luck,

CS