Begs Posted August 7, 2004 Share Posted August 7, 2004 they admit that Brits are more honest and honourable that the men of Thailand And that is a claim to Fame? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Begs Posted August 7, 2004 Share Posted August 7, 2004 Actually many of the Thais I know say it the best - they admit that Brits are more honest and honourable that the men of Thailand (perhaps that's why so many Thai females want to marry us and get the ###### out of here?) Special Report: The shameful truth about police corruption The confidential report seen by the Telegraph. POLICE corruption in Britain is now so widespread it may have reached levels which normally only occur in unstable Third World countries, according to a confidential document obtained by The Telegraph. The growth of the international drugs trade and the massive amounts of money available to criminals to offer as bribes are identified as the key cause. The document, the minutes of a meeting organised by the National Criminal Intelligence Service (NCIS), and attended by 10 of Britain's most senior officers and policy makers, states that "corrupt officers exist throughout the UK police service". NCIS's Director of Intelligence said that corruption may have reached "level 2: the situation which occurs in some Third World Countries" ................................................................................ ............................ Tell me something, have you ever visited the Planet Earth? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Foggy Bottom Posted August 7, 2004 Share Posted August 7, 2004 I didn't have to threaten anything - the cops took one look at my face and expression and knew exactly what I was thinking. I also suspect the Police Captain was an honest guy with no love for arrogant fat cats who think they can get away with anything. But then perhaps it was because during our discussions I mentioned that such stupid manouevres as the Merc driver did, are classed as manslaughter in the UK if anyone is killed - that's what Americans call 2nd degree murder I think. So the good captain was probably thinking that the Merc driver thought he could get away with murder ..... literally. As for the actions of "some farang" worrying the Merc driver ... well, you don't know me, you don't know my reputation, or what I do in Thailand that made the cops want to help me so much, and maybe you missed that the cops witnessed the whole thing - the actions of the Merc driver have been duplicated so many times in movies - where a car is used as the murder weapon - that to the cops, they could be forgiven for thinking that's what was happening - remember Thailand is quite high on the list for the worst country where journalists are shot or intimidated by the rich and powerful - just go speak to the news team at ITv and ask what Thaksin did to them and why. I think you need to recognise that the majority of Farangs living in Thailand are NOT drugged up, boozed up sex tourists - most of us are hard working honest and good-intentioned towards the kingdom. We may squabble and criticise within the expat community, but we defend Thailand against those who don't know it as well as we do. Defending the kingdom also means reporting and restricting corruption - or have you forgotten the King's own warnings to Thaksin? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Foggy Bottom Posted August 7, 2004 Share Posted August 7, 2004 Actually many of the Thais I know say it the best - they admit that Brits are more honest and honourable that the men of Thailand (perhaps that's why so many Thai females want to marry us and get the ###### out of here?) Special Report: The shameful truth about police corruption The confidential report seen by the Telegraph. POLICE corruption in Britain is now so widespread it may have reached levels which normally only occur in unstable Third World countries, according to a confidential document obtained by The Telegraph. The growth of the international drugs trade and the massive amounts of money available to criminals to offer as bribes are identified as the key cause. The document, the minutes of a meeting organised by the National Criminal Intelligence Service (NCIS), and attended by 10 of Britain's most senior officers and policy makers, states that "corrupt officers exist throughout the UK police service". NCIS's Director of Intelligence said that corruption may have reached "level 2: the situation which occurs in some Third World Countries" ................................................................................ ............................ Tell me something, have you ever visited the Planet Earth? Interesting .... You see what happens - all the honest people become expats in developing and third world countries and the "model societies" go to the dogs Now if you were to use that as an argument for us to go back to straighten out our own countries (again) then I wouldn't argue with you about it. I guess I've been here so long that I've lost touch with what's happening back there (assuming your clipping is genuine) - do you have a URL for it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Foggy Bottom Posted August 7, 2004 Share Posted August 7, 2004 Tell me something, have you ever visited the Planet Earth? LOL I've noticed your English has improved rapidly throughout this thread - where do I send the bill for the tuition? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Begs Posted August 7, 2004 Share Posted August 7, 2004 As for the actions of "some farang" worrying the Merc driver ... well, you don't know me, you don't know my reputation, or what I do in Thailand that made the cops want to help me so much, and maybe you missed that the cops witnessed the whole thing - the actions of the Merc driver have been duplicated so many times in movies - where a car is used as the murder weapon - that to the cops, they could be forgiven for thinking that's what was happening - remember Thailand is quite high on the list for the worst country where journalists are shot or intimidated by the rich and powerful - just go speak to the news team at ITv and ask what Thaksin did to them and why. Oh i see, the cops thought that some Fat Cat in a Benz was trying to Kill you ? 2 boys on a Motorcycle with a handgun is the usual method of disposal. But i guess that is only for normal guys. With Farang Foreign Correspondents they roll out the Benz for the Killing. You must be very important. Hahaha.....................Been down the Foreign Correspondents club have you? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Foggy Bottom Posted August 7, 2004 Share Posted August 7, 2004 Just telling it the way it appeared ...... who knows what goes through someone else's head at a time like that? Looking back at it now, I can laugh at it - wish I had it on film though - the way I flew through the air straight at one of the traffic cops must have made him wet his pants - probably lucky he didn't shoot at me thinking I was trying to kill HIM. It did start me thinking about trying out for a job as a stunt man though ...... then I realised I'm too old for it. (FCC - that's in Bangkok and I'm in Chiangmai so it'd be a rare event if I turned up there) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Begs Posted August 7, 2004 Share Posted August 7, 2004 Gaz, here in an interesting link i just found. http://www.theinsider.org/mailing/article.asp?id=00393 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Begs Posted August 7, 2004 Share Posted August 7, 2004 By the way, i am English. Born. Dartford, kent. Just winding you up.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Foggy Bottom Posted August 7, 2004 Share Posted August 7, 2004 Gaz, here in an interesting link i just found. http://www.theinsider.org/mailing/article.asp?id=00393 Quoting their own description - "The Insider is a website dedicated to the thriving online conspiracy theory community, debating current affairs, revealing the truth behind conspiracy theories, exposing any cover-up, and reporting the secret agenda." And people think I'M paranoid - these are the guys who believe the "Roswell" TV series was US government made to prepare us for the truth about Area 51 and crop circles. That article is more like a synopsis for the next Al Pacino v Richard Gere movie script. Not saying there is NO corruption in the UK police, but I suspect it's a lot less than some groups want us to believe. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Foggy Bottom Posted August 7, 2004 Share Posted August 7, 2004 LOL - didn't want to accuse you of it - I got trashed on another forum for accusing someone of posing as a Thai because their English was too good and too idiomatic - got called an arrogant b######d for doing so, but was later proved correct - one benefit of spending a few years teaching here a while back - you learn to spot certain linguisdtic traits. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
usatrader Posted August 8, 2004 Share Posted August 8, 2004 A general comment on what seems to be a lot complaining, whining and failure to grasp the reality of where you are and how best to deal with it. Let's see, inefficient government workers getting paid off to do the job they where paid to do... Ineffective utilization of time and resources...., Wasting of time...., Inconsiderate decision making..., People who have inside tracts at getting things done and require you pay to use that inside tract...., Who you know making a difference at getting assistance...., The power elite expecting and receiving special privilege...., Jesus H Christ... Sounds like Home doesn’t it? It is the Chi of things. It is the way…There is a Thai saying that seems appropriate. How many Fahrang does it take to get something done? Three, one to complain, one to analyize the complaint and another to tell the other two how stupid they are and that he has the right answer to how things should be done. In the end the Ying will balance with the Yang and most of these whiners will go back to the lands of perfectionism and cynicism for whence they came. A land that exists in their own minds as it is not of this world. When in Rome.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dighambara Posted August 8, 2004 Share Posted August 8, 2004 All, Like I said before the Thai visa system in Lao did work efficently. A guy tried to sell me a visa service while I was in line. I TOLD HIM MY HAND WAS NOT BROKEN, I COULD FILL OUT THE PAPERWORK MYSELF. Now you guys are discussing Thai corruption. You can resist as best you can but in the end you still play thier game. Pay now or if you give us trouble pay more later. A simple trip to the police staion to pay a simple fine can take hours. My time is worth more than that. THIS IS THAILAND. Learn to be more like the Thai and realize you can only influence so much and accept the rest as living in Thailand. Take the best of Thailand and ignore (live with) the rest. If you truly are a journalist then please study up on Thai society, go live with some Thais, and understand that you truly will not understand everything ever. Just learning myself like everybody else, LLL Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
threelegcowboy Posted August 8, 2004 Share Posted August 8, 2004 SORRY I POSTED UNDER SOME OTHER BLOKE HERE IN AN INTERNET CAFE,TIT,LOL All, Like I said before the Thai visa system in Lao did work efficently. A guy tried to sell me a visa service while I was in line. I TOLD HIM MY HAND WAS NOT BROKEN, I COULD FILL OUT THE PAPERWORK MYSELF. Now you guys are discussing Thai corruption. You can resist as best you can but in the end you still play thier game. Pay now or if you give us trouble pay more later. A simple trip to the police staion to pay a simple fine can take hours. My time is worth more than that. THIS IS THAILAND. Learn to be more like the Thai and realize you can only influence so much and accept the rest as living in Thailand. Take the best of Thailand and ignore (live with) the rest. If you truly are a journalist then please study up on Thai society, go live with some Thais, and understand that you truly will not understand everything ever. Just learning myself like everybody else, LLL Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Begs Posted August 8, 2004 Share Posted August 8, 2004 How many Fahrang does it take to get something done? Three, one to complain, one to analyize the complaint and another to tell the other two how stupid they are and that he has the right answer to how things should be done. In the end the Ying will balance with the Yang and most of these whiners will go back to the lands of perfectionism and cynicism for whence they came. A land that exists in their own minds as it is not of this world. When in Rome.. That's about right, USA Trader has it spot on.............. The Thai people have to also pay some tea money to officials to speed along certain processes, and they know that it is the way of things, and they accept it. When a Farang also has to pay, he claims that Thais are stupid and Racist. If one cannot adapt to the Asian way, there are alternatives.................you do have a choice, most Thai people would never have the choices Farangs have, you can leave , they cannot. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
haha Posted August 8, 2004 Share Posted August 8, 2004 my 2 cents... corruption exists everywhere in the world. in some places, more so than in others. the people who profit most from corruption are the rich. corruption is a tool used by the rich to subjugate the poor. I don't believe in childish complains, but there is a need in society to allow for people to breach complaints. to allow the poor a way to approach the rich. a way for the poor to exist in the same playing field as the rich. the reason why many western countries have a large middle class is because people in those countries can resist corruption to a certain degree. through unions, a legal system, etc. ..granted, it is not a perfect system of justice. ..but the fact remains, there does exist a middle class in those countries. in countries where you see many poor people, no middle class, and a few rich, rich people, corruption is probably rampant. and the gap between the poor and the rich in those countries will continue until something is done about the corruption. some people think the solution to the above is to throw money to the poor. ...it has been tried, and it has never been successful in bridging the vast gap between the majority poor, and the minority rich in many countries where corruption is rampant. what then is the solution, you ask? I'm not sure, but maybe the following is constructive: 1) provide ways for people, rich and poor, to combat corruption. 2) education of the masses so that they understand why corruption is bad for them. have you ever wondered why, throughout history, most empires crumble? ..it seems to happen when corruption is left to go rampant in those societies. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
huahin Posted August 8, 2004 Share Posted August 8, 2004 Am I missing something or what!!! If Thai Consulates are that bad and it's so hard to get a visa etc etc etc, and you people aren't happy with the Public Service let alone the Thai Government, I don't understand why you people want to remain in the Kingdom of Thailand. If it's so bad in this country why don't you winges pack your bags and go home or where ever you come from. I don't think that anybody is forcing you to stay in the country. Give me a break and everybody else with all this belly acheing. have a look at the country that you all come from. If everybody was perfect in this world we wouldn't have wars. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Felt 35 Posted August 8, 2004 Share Posted August 8, 2004 1) provide ways for people, rich and poor, to combat corruption.2) education of the masses so that they understand why corruption is bad for them. haha. Great writing and of course very logic. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stefano lucio Posted August 8, 2004 Share Posted August 8, 2004 Yes I felt that also. Never accuse the staff of being dick wits also is important Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Axel Posted August 8, 2004 Share Posted August 8, 2004 Am I missing something or what!!! Yes, you are missing something. The OP explained the situation in one specific place, i.e. the embassy in Vientiane. What has this to do with not liking Thailand, not liking the Thai Government or the public Service? Service you used. If there is no service, why not complain. People are visiting an Embassy to get a service for which they pay a fee. If there is a rotten apple some posters suggested to point this out to the MFA, some others said, use one of the guys who sneak in and get the visa for you at an extra-fee. Oh, I have had also good experiences. Just recently mentioned one Consulate refused an non-imm B for my son visiting, but took all the efforts to find a solution and gave him a non-imm Ed. To cut it short, if there is a reason to point out something, point it out. IMHO Thai Visa is not a bad place to mention it. Maybe the one or other goes next time to another place to get a visa-service. If nobody goes to Vientiane they will be wondering what happened to their fee-income which they do need. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
royar2002 Posted August 8, 2004 Share Posted August 8, 2004 Another thing I see is Laos guys showing up with a bulk amount of passports, perhaps from a hotel in either box or large folder. They ignore the line, go right up to the window as if the quantity gives them more importance and for some reason, the staff processes all the passports straight away every time! Well i know what i would do, find out what hotel he works this service from, and stay there. It has been a few years since I have been to laos for a visa but I did get 2 60 day visas in a row there, And 1 non "O",But I have never been up to the front door. I went to the tables out front gave my paperwork and request to one of the guys there along with 1000 baht, went back about 1 block to my hotel and the next morning they came with my visa. No way would I stand in line out there and fight the weather for 1000 baht. Thats the way to do visa in Vientianne. Don't deal with the brainless staff from the embassey. You can offer 500-700 baht to the people who do visa service in the tables outside embassey, and you will get your visa at time. You dont need them to bring the passport to your hotel. Just make a time outside the embassey where you fill out the visapaper. If you so "kineo" so you want to risk a heartattack, deal with the embasseystaff. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
philmac Posted August 10, 2004 Share Posted August 10, 2004 Thank you Axel for clarifying The writer of the story that originally appeared on the Expat Page of The Nation on Friday August 6, was pointing out an inefficient (or rather imcompetent) service at a particular place at a particular time. In this case the Thai embassy in Vientiane. That's all...nothing more, nothing less. The writer of the story has dealt with Thai bureaucracy both inside and outside ofThailand on numerous occassions and, in the main, has found it polite and efficient. It was not a general rant against Thailand, its bureaucracy, its people, its weather, its traffic, its police, its corruption, it military or anything else any one cares to read into to it. And anyone who thinks it was is in need of a remedial course in English language comprehension. It was a rant against an incompetent, rude and arrogant staff at a foreign embassy, which happened to be a Thai embassy. Jeez.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Foggy Bottom Posted August 10, 2004 Share Posted August 10, 2004 I have only used the Vientiane Consulate once - about 3 1/2 years ago - and went with a friend who also needed a visa. I was applying for Non-Imm (B ) through my company and hoped for multiple entry but didn't expect it. He wanted the same through someone else's company, but his reason was tentative at best. Living in Chiangmai, we were both used to the hassles of beggars, vendors and touts jossling our elbows every 30 seconds while trying to enjoy a quiet drink, therefore we completely blanked the "assistants" outside the consulate. We were both smartly dressed, polite, with good haircuts etc. My application sailed through far more smoothly than I expected - only asked for 1 additional photocopy - and a single entry Non-Imm (B ) was ready the next day. My friend however did not get his and had to accept a 60 day single entry tourist visa - as stated, his supporting evidencwe was a bit shaky so I wasn't suprised, but he took it badly. However my gripe is, and always has been, about the excess of parasitic "assistants" everywhere there is anything needs done with "official" offices - take for instance Don Muang Domestic Arrivals - with the air-con meter taxi booth immediately outside the doors, do we really need scores of taxi touts blocking the inside of the terminal and hassling the ###### out of every (foreign) passenger that's just arrived? At Chiangmai (and every) rail station, do we also need them inside the station when 5 yards away are the front doors and the queue of taxis? I know this is not peculiar to Thailand, but it is very insulting as they seem to think we are incapable of navigating the extra few steps to the vehicles, and then of stating where we want to go. I know that some would say they are providing a service, and that others would say they are merely salesmen for the taxis - I disagree, they are predatory vultures who make unaccustomed visitors grip their luggage tighter for fear of being robbed - they create a bad impression of the city, the country, and the region, especially if they get insulting when you refuse their services - how many times does it take "no" or "mai Aow" to registerwith these people? The "assistants" at Vientiane fall into the same category, especially when making a business visa application - by what arrogance can they presuppose they know more about a person's application and circumstances than the applicant themselves? And, by what rule of economic averaging do they accord thier time to be worth 1,000 baht for 10 - 30 minutes of waiting in a nation where the average monthly salary is below 3.000 baht? There are few farangs in the kingdom who earn at that rate of pay. But my real gripe about the whole situation is that consular staff are employed to not just scrutinise and process applications and thier presenters, but also to assist the applicants in making applications correctly - in the case of this story they appear to be shirking that "responsibility" onto unofficial and therefore uncontrollable, external freelance third-country citizens. If that agent screws up the application or loses the passport - what recompense is available? Personally I would never trust my passport or my application to a non-official person. Of course, what you do is up to you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
teelac888 Posted August 11, 2004 Share Posted August 11, 2004 thank you huahin!!! the whiners are missing the whole point: what's so bad about staying for an extra day in Vientiane? It's a great place to kick back and i have done so myself many times. People say they move to places like Thailand to "get away from it all" then run around and get stressed just like usual. Silly. I'll bet 90% of the whiners on this chain come from one back asswards cold island where the cold water used to come out of one tap and the hot out of another, and you know where I mean :-) If you want to talk about a place where things don't work correctly, you'd have to put that place right at the top of the list. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
usatrader Posted August 11, 2004 Share Posted August 11, 2004 It is, overall, a good discussion I think. People get information on the process and others experiences as well as some perspectives on how to cope with an inperfect world both in the LoS and from whence they came. As a cavate on the issue of Corruption to put some perspective to those that whine so much about it. I would add the following as it is quantified by http://www.nationmaster.com, A look at corruption throughout the world might give more perspective to the discussion at hand. Source: http://www.nationmaster.com/graph-T/gov_cor Thailand is rated 38 out of 100 and is considered as a middle range in corruption. Indonesia is 6th Philippines is 25th Romania is 26th India is 29th Russia is 32th no wonder we have so many coming here huh? China is 44th Poland is 55th Itlay is 72th France is 77th Good God perfection could not be that corrupt ? Ireland is 80th Japan is 81st Belgium is 82nd Spain is 83rd Germany is 84th Aren't the yanks the cowboys of the world ? USA is 87th As a side bar, Thailand is 3rd in the world for Murder with a Firearm . just head of # 4 the yanks AKA so fondly referred to in Europe as "Cowboys from the wild wild west" I hope this add some perspective to those that are having adjustment problems. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dighambara Posted August 13, 2004 Share Posted August 13, 2004 Guys, This problem is exactly why I got a one year visa before returning in January. The gist of the messages is that Thais are still in a "save face" mode and cannot progress without losing face. While this may be true in government circles, it appeares to have changed in much of the international business conducted in Thailand. It is a shame that Taksin hasn't gotten rid of bribery, as he has promised......! As to embassy staff, it is the same in the US. The embassy in Wash DC, and the consulate in LA will not respond to either telephone or written inquires. However, the consulates in Huston, TX, and Seattle, WA, are staffed wholey by americans and respond very quickly. Houston guarantees a 3 day turnaround if the request is by mail. Yep, I sent my docs and got my passport back on the third day! The recommendation to contact the ministry was a nice laugh! Michael Weldon Udon Thani Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dighambara Posted August 13, 2004 Share Posted August 13, 2004 OK Guys, A P.S. I hadn't anticipated. Visa services are largely a ripoff, one way or another. Either they charge a fee for something that should be free, or they provide a phoney visa! There have been enough discussions of the latter in this forum, as there are numerous foreigners in prison for using a visa service that they thought was on the up and up. Thailand has a very bad reputation for ripping people off through illegal, forged visas (and most of us can't tell the difference). So, if you need a visa, do it yourself. If you use a service and go to jail, kick yourself. Michael Weldon Udon Thani Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Foggy Bottom Posted August 13, 2004 Share Posted August 13, 2004 OK Guys, A P.S. I hadn't anticipated. Visa services are largely a ripoff, one way or another. Either they charge a fee for something that should be free, or they provide a phoney visa! There have been enough discussions of the latter in this forum, as there are numerous foreigners in prison for using a visa service that they thought was on the up and up. Thailand has a very bad reputation for ripping people off through illegal, forged visas (and most of us can't tell the difference). So, if you need a visa, do it yourself. If you use a service and go to jail, kick yourself. Michael Weldon Udon Thani EXACTLY the point I was making about using the Vientiane agents, but better said than any of my attempts Well put Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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