Two Buck Chuck

[solo siam]

Guarantee it do you? I'd be quite happy to take you up on this. There are some prize-winning wines produced from good vineyards over here.

It's a pity that forum rules prohibit me from making personal comments about your intelligence level . .

Simon

You are talking out of your bottom Simon.

Even Chateau De Loei, Thailand's most prominent vineyard doesn't yet produce prize-winning wines. Unless of course by prize winning you mean the first commercially available Thai wine (circa 1995).

Thai awards don't count either.

Making an excellent wine in tropical climates is near impossible due to vines yielding twice a year so grapes are too low in sugar.

Chateau De Loei

Of course its entirely impossible to add sugar, because of its scarcity or something?

Awards

* Silver Medal at London International Wine & Spirits Competition, UK

* Silver Medal at Wine Master's Challenge, Portugal

* Bronze Medal at Los Angeles County Fair, USA

* 4 wines selected into top 12 best wines from Asia by Australian Wine Selector Magazine

* 4 wines mentioned in World Wine Report 2006 by Tom Stevenson/Denis Gastin

* Silver medal with 86.9 points in the Shiraz class at the world's second largest wine challenge "awc vienna 2006" in Vienna

Its not much, but a start.

[Jingthing]

I don't think dropping taxes on wine that much would lead to a massive increase in the amount purchased, people would just say "oh, wines cheaper now".

Really? I don't buy wine here. If they cut the taxes 2/3, I would buy maybe 10 bottles a month. My price point would be 300 baht for a really decent bottle, easily done in the US. Here you have to pay 1000 baht plus for that.

Really? Wines not important enough to you that you can go totally without because its a little expensive, however if it was cheaper you would be drinking a bottle every 3 days?

Yes, really! It is not a LITTLE MORE!!!!

It is alot more. You may be rich but lots of us have something called price resistance. This is basic economics and it is real. I stand by my assertion that drastically cutting the wine tax would indeed boost tax revenue. I like wine but I won't participate in the tax larceny here. I did indeed used to buy 10 bottles a month regularly and I gave it up cold turkey because I am an all or nothing kind of guy. The wine you can get here for 300 baht is not acceptable to me, I like good wine or no wine. And yes I have spent thousands of baht for a bottle of wine in the US, but what bottles they were. Buying a few bottles a month of good wine here would just frustrate me and I would still think it was robbery, so its beer and whisky and green tea for me here. Wine is one of the things I gave up moving here, thats all. If I moved back west, I would give up things I like about living here.

If you don't believe many others would respond to lower prices, consider cars. What if tomorrow all car prices in Thailand were raised 300 percent. Overnight, there would be radically fewer auto sales, and used car prices would also skyrocket. Have you had a look at a typical Thai wine shop compated to one in Argentina, France, or California? In Thailand they are almost always EMPTY. The price is simply too high. I have read the Thai wine industry which is also taxed up the wazoo is in deep trouble.

Edited October 7, 2007 by Jingthing

[simon43]

Hmm, I said:

There are some prize-winning wines produced from good vineyards over here.

[\quote]

and Solo Siam then produced a list of international awards made to Thai vineyards/wines . . .

.. and then Emperor Tud said my claims were a fallacy!

So what was this list of international awards that Solo siam quoted?? It supports my statement 100%!

And please note that my comments were made solely about the quality of some local wines, not the price.

Finally, don't try to lecture me about vine-growing/wine-making. I used to own a commercial vineyard back in Europe

Simon

[percy2]

While not cheap some of the wines produced at Granmonte and PB valley are very good.

I much prefer them to C. d. Loei.

Cheers

[solo siam]

I don't think dropping taxes on wine that much would lead to a massive increase in the amount purchased, people would just say "oh, wines cheaper now".

Really? I don't buy wine here. If they cut the taxes 2/3, I would buy maybe 10 bottles a month. My price point would be 300 baht for a really decent bottle, easily done in the US. Here you have to pay 1000 baht plus for that.

Really? Wines not important enough to you that you can go totally without because its a little expensive, however if it was cheaper you would be drinking a bottle every 3 days?

Yes, really! It is not a LITTLE MORE!!!!

It is alot more. You may be rich but lots of us have something called price resistance. This is basic economics and it is real. I stand by my assertion that drastically cutting the wine tax would indeed boost tax revenue. I like wine but I won't participate in the tax larceny here. I did indeed used to buy 10 bottles a month regularly and I gave it up cold turkey because I am an all or nothing kind of guy. The wine you can get here for 300 baht is not acceptable to me, I like good wine or no wine. And yes I have spent thousands of baht for a bottle of wine in the US, but what bottles they were. Buying a few bottles a month of good wine here would just frustrate me and I would still think it was robbery, so its beer and whisky and green tea for me here. Wine is one of the things I gave up moving here, thats all. If I moved back west, I would give up things I like about living here.

If you don't believe many others would respond to lower prices, consider cars. What if tomorrow all car prices in Thailand were raised 300 percent. Overnight, there would be radically fewer auto sales, and used car prices would also skyrocket. Have you had a look at a typical Thai wine shop compated to one in Argentina, France, or California? In Thailand they are almost always EMPTY. The price is simply too high. I have read the Thai wine industry which is also taxed up the wazoo is in deep trouble.

Price ELASTICITY of demand is basic economics that backs up what I say, people rarely go from buying NONE of something to buying a LOT of something because the price has come down by 50%.

If car prices doubled overnight, people would still buy them, sure less people - but they wouldn't ALL just stop buying cars. Just as if they halved in price they wouldn't sell 10 times as many.

[Jingthing]

I see.

We agree on the principle but disagree on the specifics.

As this hasn't been tried here, both of our opinions about how dramatic this would be are just that, opinions.

Edited October 8, 2007 by Jingthing

[simon43]

Yawn, this gets boring. When did I say that Thailand made 'superb' wines? I didn't. I said that it made wines that had won international awards. Simple as that.

As to my vineyard, try Googling Sun Vineyards...

You can have the last word if you want. I have better things to do

Simon

[kmart]

Happily, an abundance of cheap, but quality whine is always guaranteed here all year round.

[Jingthing]

Happily, an abundance of cheap, but quality whine is always guaranteed here all year round.

You writing from Buenos Aires? Oh, you said whine. Ha ha.

[siam-i-am]

I guarantee the crap you get in Thailand is shit quality like the beer

[\quote]

Guarantee it do you? I'd be quite happy to take you up on this. There are some prize-winning wines produced from good vineyards over here.

It's a pity that forum rules prohibit me from making personal comments about your intelligence level . .

Simon

Who awarded the 'prizes' and what were the wines called I've yet to sample any Thai wine I could seriously consider quaffable.

[percy2]

While not cheap some of the wines produced at Granmonte and PB valley are very good.

I much prefer them to C. d. Loei.

Cheers

I've yet to sample any Thai wine I could seriously consider quaffable.

I have.

Cheers

[polecat]

There are plenty of very good Thai wine. Although I know of none from CdeL.

As someone mentioned, Khao Yai PB Valley is a good bet. Not all of it, some of it is muck (steer clear of the Sawasdee range), but I defy anybody to try the PB Tempranillo and say it's not good. 700 baht is twice what most of us would like to pay, but this stuff is good enough to wheel out when guests come for dinner, or as a present for visitors to take back home (aong with some Lanna or Doi Tung coffee, of course). Easily as good as ost Spanish Tempranillos. You'll have to do a little research for the best year, but there we go siam-i-am, a more than quaffable Thai wine.

[YangYaiEric]

Tesco's do some really foul french table wine for about 180 baht,if you speed drink the first bottle,it tastes really good after that.

Have you tried the local 'Klang Dong Valley' Red Wine ? I'm no wine expert, but I was pleasantly suprised with this wine! Its produced in the NakornRatchasima Highland area of Thailand, and at Bht. 120 per. bottle (12% Vol.) , great value for money!

[siam-i-am]

There are plenty of very good Thai wine. Although I know of none from CdeL.

As someone mentioned, Khao Yai PB Valley is a good bet. Not all of it, some of it is muck (steer clear of the Sawasdee range), but I defy anybody to try the PB Tempranillo and say it's not good. 700 baht is twice what most of us would like to pay, but this stuff is good enough to wheel out when guests come for dinner, or as a present for visitors to take back home (aong with some Lanna or Doi Tung coffee, of course). Easily as good as ost Spanish Tempranillos. You'll have to do a little research for the best year, but there we go siam-i-am, a more than quaffable Thai wine.

Going on past experience I'm not willing to gamble 700 bhat, but will see if Darling wines has any in stock and sample a glass, will get back to you polecat.

[Prakanong]

Same in Singapore

I bought some Mersault in Carrefour in Belgium last week for just over 17 Euro (about 35 SGD) - same bottle in Carrefour in Singapore is just over 83 SGD!

It is nice though!

[percy2]

Same in Singapore

I bought some Mersault in Carrefour in Belgium last week for just over 17 Euro (about 35 SGD) - same bottle in Carrefour in Singapore is just over 83 SGD!

It is nice though!

Thats perspective though!

I go to Cold Storage and think I'm getting a bargain.

Cheers

[Prakanong]

Same in Singapore

I bought some Mersault in Carrefour in Belgium last week for just over 17 Euro (about 35 SGD) - same bottle in Carrefour in Singapore is just over 83 SGD!

It is nice though!

Thats perspective though!

I go to Cold Storage and think I'm getting a bargain.

Cheers

Cold Storage had bottles of Mersault for 95 SGD last week!!!!

I will have a look in the new Fair Price finest at Bukit Timah - they have what looks like a good selevtion in there.

I have promised to keep the Mersault for when my pla cooks Burmese food for me after we both get back from travelling next week.

[Iolare]

Tesco's do some really foul french table wine for about 180 baht,if you speed drink the first bottle,it tastes really good after that.

Have you tried the local 'Klang Dong Valley' Red Wine ? I'm no wine expert, but I was pleasantly suprised with this wine! Its produced in the NakornRatchasima Highland area of Thailand, and at Bht. 120 per. bottle (12% Vol.) , great value for money!

Hey Eric, that sounds like a winner to me. I would happily pay 120 baht for a bottle of drinkable red wine. Three Buck Chuck in Thailand (well, 3.5 bucks now)!! I hope they retail it here in Phuket. Did you get it from one of the large food chain stores or wine retailers?

[Jingthing]

Drinkable wine in Thailand for 120 baht? Sounds like an urban myth to me.

[keemao]

Australian wines were supposed to be cheaper in Thailand after the FTA (Free Trade Agreement) was signed between Australia and Thailand. Why are they not?

They will be.

I am currently negotiating a deal to ship Australian wines from Barossa Valley and Hunter Valley to Thailand with planned retail prices of between 500 and 800 baht. Good wine too. The price in Thailand will be equivalent to Aussie retail prices.

If anyone has some contacts or wishes to buy bulk, please PM me so I can organise samples.

We have to ship 10,000 bottles...(ALOT!!!!!)

[percy2]

Australian wines were supposed to be cheaper in Thailand after the FTA (Free Trade Agreement) was signed between Australia and Thailand. Why are they not?

They will be.

I am currently negotiating a deal to ship Australian wines from Barossa Valley and Hunter Valley to Thailand with planned retail prices of between 500 and 800 baht. Good wine too. The price in Thailand will be equivalent to Aussie retail prices.

If anyone has some contacts or wishes to buy bulk, please PM me so I can organise samples.

We have to ship 10,000 bottles...(ALOT!!!!!)

I'm afraid you will have to wait until 2015 to see a real drop in prices.

As of 1/1/05

Wine, Beer and Spirits

* Thailand immediately reduced its previous 54% tariffs on wine to 40%, and will phase the tariff to zero in 2015.

* For beer and spirits, Thailand immediately reduced its previous tariffs of 60% to 30%, before phasing to zero in 2010.

Cheers

[Iolare]

Drinkable wine in Thailand for 120 baht? Sounds like an urban myth to me.

Urban Myth? I don’t know, but I hope not. I tried a google search on the name, and it is a winery with a Shiraz that was listed by an American west coast web site (no price). Nothing else shows on a cursory overview. The west coast, as you know, has a huge population of expat Thais, so a wine from the homeland probably makes sense in that market; and it better be halfway decent to be served in CA. I met my wife over 20 years ago in LA--an expat Thai herself at that time. Many more Thais in CA than Americans in LOS, but that’s for another thread.

So, I believe the wine exists, and if Eric doesn’t resurface to give more information, I’ll try to find the winery myself. The big question is: does it exist at 120 baht? With the govt. adding 300%--I doubt it, but if the tax is 40% as Percy2 mentioned is levied on Oz wine; then just maybe it’s possible...) It’s certainly worth a little investigation. The wife and I would like to go upcountry and visit the Thai wine country after our house is done, so we’ll eventually get the real picture. We did that in CA, and found excellent deals without the middleman and the retailers. Maybe we’ll be similarly lucky here too.

We are absolutely of the same mind regarding cutting taxes to promote an industry like wine making. That’s been proven to be the way to do it for a long time. As you know, whenever a U.S. politician feels the need to stimulate the economy they propose a tax cut--and invariable it works--the ecomony is stimulated and the total revenues climb to boot.

Conversely, taxing something is a way to discourage consumption, and that’s maybe what the powers that be have in mind here. but even with that, it would make a lot more sense to tax based on alcohol content, in which case a bottle of Johnny Walker would be taxed about three times higher than a bottle of wine--or better stated, a bottle of wine should carry 1/3 the tax.

If anything, the govt. should be encouraging the domestic wine industry. Not only for the jobs and the revenue, but because of the health benefits. If one ventures over to the Health forum on this site, there is a thread running which essentially says that a dinner of sticky rice and Muslim chicken with some red wine will cure cancer. How can anyone be against that?

[Ulysses G.]

TAX WINE SNOBS TO THE HILT!

Edited October 10, 2007 by Ulysses G.

[Jingthing]

UG, I get your point but alot of wine drinkers are not wine snobs. Wine is delicious and its good for you. I realized some people are intimidated and put off by the complexities of the different kinds of wines and the various food pairings, but it really isn't rocket science. The thing to do is taste a bunch of wines and figure out what kinds you like. Simple, really. And it shouldn't have to be expensive but of course in Thailand, it is.

[Johpa]

UG, I get your point but alot of wine drinkers are not wine snobs.

That is correct. All those shoppers buying the award winning two-buck Chuck, and there are a lot of them in the US, have long realized that the wine industry is one giant scam and that there are excellent wines, at least in the US, for under $10 and as low as the two-buck Chuck. Now I personally don't rate two-buck Chuck as excellent, but that is my subjective rating. But there still remain plenty of wine snobs around who imagine that price has something to do with quality.

Edited October 10, 2007 by Johpa

[Pepe']

UG, I get your point but alot of wine drinkers are not wine snobs.

That is correct. All those shoppers buying the award winning two-buck Chuck, and there are a lot of them in the US, have long realized that the wine industry is one giant scam and that there are excellent wines, at least in the US, for under $10 and as low as the two-buck Chuck. Now I personally don't rate two-buck Chuck as excellent, but that is my subjective rating. But there still remain plenty of wine snobs around who imagine that price has something to do with quality.

--------------------------

There was an interesting article in one of the local San Diego papers reporting how Charles Shaw had been consistently beating $65 to $85 bottles of wine. There are several articles on line about the phenomenon.

Last year my cousin visited from Bordeaux. He flipped over the California wines. I asked him after a week of tasting what he thought. He laughed and said "France is in big trouble."

[Prakanong]

UG, I get your point but alot of wine drinkers are not wine snobs. Wine is delicious and its good for you. I realized some people are intimidated and put off by the complexities of the different kinds of wines and the various food pairings, but it really isn't rocket science. The thing to do is taste a bunch of wines and figure out what kinds you like. Simple, really. And it shouldn't have to be expensive but of course in Thailand, it is.

Exactly - drink what you like.

I do treat myself to a lovely bottle of measault only occasionally but normally a half decent Aussie Chardonnay is good enough for me - 20 Sing Dollars or 440THB.

Not much more expensive than beer.

[Ulysses G.]

UG, I get your point but alot of wine drinkers are not wine snobs. Wine is delicious and its good for you. I realized some people are intimidated and put off by the complexities of the different kinds of wines and the various food pairings, but it really isn't rocket science. The thing to do is taste a bunch of wines and figure out what kinds you like. Simple, really. And it shouldn't have to be expensive but of course in Thailand, it is.

I have no taste for wine or champagne at all and it is my theory that most other people don't either. Pretty much everyone pretends to like it because everyone else says that they do and also it is supposed to be a sign of good taste.

I've gotten a lot of close friends who are drinkers to admit that they don't like the taste of any kind of alcohol; they just like the buzz.

I do admit that some people actually enjoy the taste of wine, but I would guess that it is a very small percentage of the population. The rest were taken in by peer pressure and never outgrew it.

[Prakanong]

UG, I get your point but alot of wine drinkers are not wine snobs. Wine is delicious and its good for you. I realized some people are intimidated and put off by the complexities of the different kinds of wines and the various food pairings, but it really isn't rocket science. The thing to do is taste a bunch of wines and figure out what kinds you like. Simple, really. And it shouldn't have to be expensive but of course in Thailand, it is.

I have no taste for wine or champagne at all and it is my theory that most other people don't either. Pretty much everyone pretends to like it because everyone else says that they do and also it is supposed to be a sign of good taste.

I've gotten a lot of close friends who are drinkers to admit that they don't like the taste of any kind of alcohol; they just like the buzz.

I do admit that some people actually enjoy the taste of wine, but I would guess that it is a very small percentage of the population. The rest were taken in by peer pressure and never outgrew it.

A rather un-scientific approach - just because you do not like it you think nobody else does but they pretend they do.

Now that is really funny - in fact hilarious.

[polecat]

Nicely derailed the topic there UG. Do you think that's like books (ahem)? People don't really enjoy reading but feel as though they ought to? If that were true, and people suddenly realised, you might have to find a new job! Maybe you could join the Bangkok Post as the wine critic. The columns would probably be short, but sure to be explosive.