Small Fish Pond Question

[qualtrough]

I am creating a small tile-lined cement tank set in our yard, approx. dimensions being 10 feet long, 5 feet wide, and 3 feet deep that I will use as a decorative fish pond. I would like to place some lotus plants in it, but I am worried that the dirt they grow in will muddy the water. Is there a method of minimizing that? I was thinking that placing a layer of clay above the pot containg the roots might be a good idea, but I am hoping that some forum readers might be able to confirm that or offer better advice.

Edited October 11, 2007 by qualtrough

[ozzydom]

Use small grit and gravel , not soil , it is only an anchor for the root system ,the plant will get its nutrient from the water....

[Naam]

Use small grit and gravel , not soil , it is only an anchor for the root system ,the plant will get its nutrient from the water....

that's what i was told too. rinsed all soil (which dirtied the water) away. result: no growth and lotus looking quite sicklish.

any advice appreciated.

[ozzydom]

Plant them in a decent sized pot of aggregate sunk in the pool, if there are fish present they will provide all the nutrients required,

Water quality would be about the only reason for failure,use rain or ground water, not reticulated chlorine laden nam.

[candoman89]

Put the plants in pots with soil; cover the soil with plastic (perforated) and place in the bottom. the plant gets the soil it needs (and it does need the soil trust me on that one) and the soil is isolated from resuspension be fish and currents.

[qualtrough]

Wow, thanks for all the suggestions. I think I will try the pot with soil, with an upper layer of clay and then some perforated plastic. Theory being that the clay will be less likely to dissolve through the holes. Or is that a bad idea for some reason I am no aware of?

[duratanium]

At the old place I had a 2 mtre wide * 1/2 mtre deep one for fish, lined with tile. and with two underwater spotlights. Made sure the pump had a big filter attachment with replaceable fibre filter lining.

I found that too many plants in the water will turn it green ( had 4 plants and reduced it to two - the two allowing the water to stay clean and only needing to rinse the fibre filter once every 2 days). With 4 plants the filter needed cleaning several times a day. If you can shade the pond, that will help as direct sunlight also helps chlorophyll grow and adds to the problem.

If you look at many restaurants they do not have plants in the water and said water is usually clean.

As for the soil itself, after several experiments, I put half in the pot and covered the rest with washed gravel. It stopped the sediment.

There are products on the market that can help keep the water clean - though I cannot remember their names, but bought where I purchased the fish. Same product also helps against white spot and other fish diseases.

Also bought a liquid that reduces the amount of chlorine in mains water. Used a spare barrel, added the liquid, then the water. Granted, chlorine will dissipate over time but sometimes had the need to use mains water same day so that liquid worked well. (Rain water is ok when it rains but, obviously, no rain = no rain water so is good to have an alternative.)

Remember to keep any new fish quarantined. Bought some that looked healthy enough but one or two died within a week of being quarantined.

Took a while to find the balance to keep the water clean. Now it is (was) a pleasure to sit there at night and watch the fish.

[Jai Dee]

Use small grit and gravel , not soil , it is only an anchor for the root system ,the plant will get its nutrient from the water....

that's what i was told too. rinsed all soil (which dirtied the water) away. result: no growth and lotus looking quite sicklish.

any advice appreciated.

There are slow release tablets available (about the size of a 10 baht coin) which should be down pushed into the soil/aggregate mix in the pot about once a month.

Good growth, healthy leaves, and continuous multiple flower spikes.

[lazeeboy]

At the old place I had a 2 mtre wide * 1/2 mtre deep one for fish, lined with tile. and with two underwater spotlights. Made sure the pump had a big filter attachment with replaceable fibre filter lining.

I found that too many plants in the water will turn it green ( had 4 plants and reduced it to two - the two allowing the water to stay clean and only needing to rinse the fibre filter once every 2 days). With 4 plants the filter needed cleaning several times a day. If you can shade the pond, that will help as direct sunlight also helps chlorophyll grow and adds to the problem.

If you look at many restaurants they do not have plants in the water and said water is usually clean.

As for the soil itself, after several experiments, I put half in the pot and covered the rest with washed gravel. It stopped the sediment.

There are products on the market that can help keep the water clean - though I cannot remember their names, but bought where I purchased the fish. Same product also helps against white spot and other fish diseases.

Also bought a liquid that reduces the amount of chlorine in mains water. Used a spare barrel, added the liquid, then the water. Granted, chlorine will dissipate over time but sometimes had the need to use mains water same day so that liquid worked well. (Rain water is ok when it rains but, obviously, no rain = no rain water so is good to have an alternative.)

Remember to keep any new fish quarantined. Bought some that looked healthy enough but one or two died within a week of being quarantined.

Took a while to find the balance to keep the water clean. Now it is (was) a pleasure to sit there at night and watch the fish.

whatever you do the water will need changing every few weeks ,i've got a water purifier on mine ,but still have to change the water every couple of months.

[kmart]

Use small grit and gravel , not soil , it is only an anchor for the root system ,the plant will get its nutrient from the water....

that's what i was told too. rinsed all soil (which dirtied the water) away. result: no growth and lotus looking quite sicklish.

any advice appreciated.

Is that a medical / botanical term, Doc? Us laymen outside the profession would like a clarification. Thanks.

Edited October 11, 2007 by kmart

[qualtrough]

whatever you do the water will need changing every few weeks ,i've got a water purifier on mine ,but still have to change the water every couple of months.

Why will the water need to be changed? I have another fish tank about half the size of the one mentioned in this thread. I kept 6 goldfish and one sucker in that for over 2 years without changing the water, only topping it off due to evaporation. The only reason the goldfish are not with us is due to a carelessly handled transfer while I was cleaning the rocks in the tank. The sucker is still there chugging along, and the water is crystal clear as there are no plants and I ocassionally use that algae reducing fluid. Both tanks do not get much direct sunlight, esp. the new tank as it is shaded by asoke, mango, and palm trees.

[Naam]

Use small grit and gravel , not soil , it is only an anchor for the root system ,the plant will get its nutrient from the water....

that's what i was told too. rinsed all soil (which dirtied the water) away. result: no growth and lotus looking quite sicklish.

any advice appreciated.

Is that a medical / botanical term, Doc? Us laymen outside the profession would like a clarification. Thanks.

i am not shure vhat kind of term zat iss Wal... ahmm K-Mart. to ze best off my knoffletch i lurned zat ekspression fromm my vife hoo shpeaks (as opposed to me) proper enklish (at least zat's vhat people say). pleez korrekt me iff i am rong and i vill send you 10 Baht by PM.

[Naam]

Use small grit and gravel , not soil , it is only an anchor for the root system ,the plant will get its nutrient from the water....

that's what i was told too. rinsed all soil (which dirtied the water) away. result: no growth and lotus looking quite sicklish.

any advice appreciated.

There are slow release tablets available (about the size of a 10 baht coin) which should be down pushed into the soil/aggregate mix in the pot about once a month.

Good growth, healthy leaves, and continuous multiple flower spikes.

aaarrghhh... JayDee. two weeks ago i had high hopes as my water cleared up slowly. now it's back to pea soup again. one of these days i will contact you again (re: floating plants) because we had no luck finding the klong you described.

problem is communication. would it be possible that my driver or gardener communicates in thai with your maid that she can explain "where, what, how"?

PM from you highly appreciated.

[Naam]

There are products on the market that can help keep the water clean - though I cannot remember their names, but bought where I purchased the fish. Same product also helps against white spot and other fish diseases.

yeah right! i bought these "products" in the market and several days later all my (approximately) 80 Kois who survived the last attempt were dead.

[thedi]

There is no need to cover the dirt, in which you plant the lotus.

Clay will finally settle on the ground. This may last several weeks.

Important is: not too much fish and no fish which like to dig in the ground to look for food. Small fish is better than big fish. As a general rule: the total length of all your fish should not sum up to more than 20 cm per m3 of water. Difficult fish are koys, because they like to dig in the ground.

Use a lot of plants. Ideally you should have one third as a swamp, with about 10 cm of water for reeds, one third deep enough for lotus (60 cm) and the rest as deep as you want. This should make at least two thirds of the surface covered with plants.

Like this you should get clear water like in a Polaris bottle.

I have a small pond like this in front of my house. I installed a pump and a filter system to keep the water clear. About 2 month ago, ants entered the electric system somewhere and there was a short cut. So I switched the pump and the filter system off. After more than 2 month, the water is still clear. Btw: I have more fish in there than allowed by the book, but it is a small species, the biggest are about 8 cm long.

Now I try to implement the same system in a bigger pond of about 2000 m2 and up to 2.5 m deep. There is no chance for a water circulation or a filter system for a pond of this size. Work is still in progress, the water is not yet clear as in a Polaris bottle, but it clears up. Initially I had a visibility of 30 cm, now, after 6 weeks, I am at 70 cm and it gets better daily. Even so there are often kids playing in this pond.

Regards

Thedi

[duratanium]

There are products on the market that can help keep the water clean - though I cannot remember their names, but bought where I purchased the fish. Same product also helps against white spot and other fish diseases.

yeah right! i bought these "products" in the market and several days later all my (approximately) 80 Kois who survived the last attempt were dead.

Sorry to hear that. The fish I left behind are thriving and have had young too.

[qualtrough]

There is no need to cover the dirt, in which you plant the lotus.

Clay will finally settle on the ground. This may last several weeks.

Important is: not too much fish and no fish which like to dig in the ground to look for food. Small fish is better than big fish. As a general rule: the total length of all your fish should not sum up to more than 20 cm per m3 of water. Difficult fish are koys, because they like to dig in the ground.

Use a lot of plants. Ideally you should have one third as a swamp, with about 10 cm of water for reeds, one third deep enough for lotus (60 cm) and the rest as deep as you want. This should make at least two thirds of the surface covered with plants.

Like this you should get clear water like in a Polaris bottle.

I have a small pond like this in front of my house. I installed a pump and a filter system to keep the water clear. About 2 month ago, ants entered the electric system somewhere and there was a short cut. So I switched the pump and the filter system off. After more than 2 month, the water is still clear. Btw: I have more fish in there than allowed by the book, but it is a small species, the biggest are about 8 cm long.

Now I try to implement the same system in a bigger pond of about 2000 m2 and up to 2.5 m deep. There is no chance for a water circulation or a filter system for a pond of this size. Work is still in progress, the water is not yet clear as in a Polaris bottle, but it clears up. Initially I had a visibility of 30 cm, now, after 6 weeks, I am at 70 cm and it gets better daily. Even so there are often kids playing in this pond.

Regards

Thedi

Thanks for your informative reply. I won't be using a pump or filter either. I have been doing that with the smaller one without problem so don't see the need to start. I hope you don't mind a few questions:

Are Koi and goldfish the same?

Can you recommend some hardy but interesting fish to stock? A handful would be fine. I will probably put in a few of the Suckers (Tha call them Chucker) to do some cleaning.

[thedi]

Goldfish and koy are different.

Koy may be up to 50 cm long and are rather expensive. A 20 cm long may be well 500 Baht. They come from Japan in different shiny colors: red, white and gold. Some have two ore three colors. Some people like them - i don't. Collectors pay big money for them.

Gold fish are rather thick and plump and much smaller. Gold fish eat other fish and even their own young.

Both tend to make muddy water and are in my opinion not recommended for ponds.

I bought the fish I use on a marked for 5 Baht each. There are actually three kinds: red, yellow and black. The black one are difficult to see, because use a black plastic foil in the pond, they are not more than 3 cm long. The red ones are upt to 5 cm long and rather tiny. The yellow one are up to 8 cm long and the girls get thick bellies when they are about to get out youngs. But they are never the plump form of a gold fish.

If you choose the same kind of fish, you will find them on markets. They are sold to kids and you should assert that they can be kept in what Thais call 'ang nam' (earthen pots to keep water).

Regards

Thedi

[powwow]

There is no need to cover the dirt, in which you plant the lotus.

Clay will finally settle on the ground. This may last several weeks.

Important is: not too much fish and no fish which like to dig in the ground to look for food. Small fish is better than big fish. As a general rule: the total length of all your fish should not sum up to more than 20 cm per m3 of water. Difficult fish are koys, because they like to dig in the ground.

Use a lot of plants. Ideally you should have one third as a swamp, with about 10 cm of water for reeds, one third deep enough for lotus (60 cm) and the rest as deep as you want. This should make at least two thirds of the surface covered with plants.

Like this you should get clear water like in a Polaris bottle.

I have a small pond like this in front of my house. I installed a pump and a filter system to keep the water clear. About 2 month ago, ants entered the electric system somewhere and there was a short cut. So I switched the pump and the filter system off. After more than 2 month, the water is still clear. Btw: I have more fish in there than allowed by the book, but it is a small species, the biggest are about 8 cm long.

Now I try to implement the same system in a bigger pond of about 2000 m2 and up to 2.5 m deep. There is no chance for a water circulation or a filter system for a pond of this size. Work is still in progress, the water is not yet clear as in a Polaris bottle, but it clears up. Initially I had a visibility of 30 cm, now, after 6 weeks, I am at 70 cm and it gets better daily. Even so there are often kids playing in this pond.

Regards

Thedi

WHAT?