Is Thai Language Proficiency Mandatory For Farangs Living In Thailand?

[Naam]

before i disclose my personal opinion i would like to know what my fellow farangs, falangs, farlangs, furlangs, furlungs, farrangs, ferangis, ferrengis answer is to that question.

[painai2]

No proficiency at all in the Thai language is required in Pattaya where I live. For me it's fascinating. I study Thai 3 to 4 hours every day, have a private tutor, enjoy watching Thai tv and using the language wherever I can. I have very few farang friends here who share that commitment or ethusiasm.

[meadish_sweetball]

Since you ask if it's mandatory, the answer is obviously no. Nobody can force you to.

Is it a good idea to learn Thai though, for people staying long term? Yes.

It makes it easier to communicate (although not 100% fool proof of course) and will make Thai people take interest in you in a different way. It will also teach you more about the culture.

Once you are able to listen in on what people are saying when they think you do not understand, you gain some interesting insights into Thai life that you would not have been able to get if only speaking English.

I know you live close to a place with a high concentration of foreigners and where the attitude between foreigners and Thais is not always too friendly, but when you go to other parts of Thailand you will definitely notice your language skills open doors and opportunities for you.

Since you usually post about not leaving your house except in very rare occasions, which I think is different from the norm, then in your case it is possible there would be no greater benefits to learning Thai - except for being able to read and understand the original versions of contracts, bills, understanding the local news, and communicating with Thais over the phone without having to use English.

[Neeranam]

Dr.Naam, before you tell us your opinion, tell us first if you can speak Thai or not.

It always seems to be the lazy people who say it's not necessary.

[sbk]

Once you are able to listen in on what people are saying when they think you do not understand, you gain some interesting insights into Thai life that you would not have been able to get if only speaking English.

Isn't this the truth. And I am usually pleasantly surprised ("oh, look at that farang girl, she has such beautiful white skin" )

No, its not mandatory, last I heard there weren't any rules regarding this. However, it is a good idea. Especially if your partner is Thai--its nice to be able to communicate with one's own relatives. It's also nice to not have to rely on one's partner to take care of every little thing because you don't speak any Thai.

[Naam]

I know you live close to a place with a high concentration of foreigners and where the attitude between foreigners and Thais is not always too friendly, but when you go to other parts of Thailand you will definitely notice your language skills open doors and opportunities for you.

sweetish meatball , having lived in various countries i wholeheartedly agree that even rudimentary language knowledge is very much appreciated by locals. i cannot confirm your claim that Pattaya's attitude between foreigners and Thais is not too friendly because i lack experience. personally i have never encountered any of those problems.

[Captain Chaos]

Desirable but not essential - IF you're not venturing out of BKK or the major towns / tourist centres - if you are going up country, I think you'd struggle without at least some basic Thai

[meadish_sweetball]

I know you live close to a place with a high concentration of foreigners and where the attitude between foreigners and Thais is not always too friendly, but when you go to other parts of Thailand you will definitely notice your language skills open doors and opportunities for you.

sweetish meatball , having lived in various countries i wholeheartedly agree that even rudimentary language knowledge is very much appreciated by locals. i cannot confirm your claim that Pattaya's attitude between foreigners and Thais is not too friendly because i lack experience. personally i have never encountered any of those problems.

Well, I have limited experience of Pattaya as I have only visited briefly, and I am sure there are many heart-warming stories to it as well. I just based my comment on my personal experience and what my friends who live there tell me.

That aside, there are probably more English-speaking Thais in Pattaya than in Thailand on average, and this makes it easier to get by there without any Thai than it would be in for example Nakhon Sawan or Uttaradit.

[PhilHarries]

Desirable but not essential - IF you're not venturing out of BKK or the major towns / tourist centres - if you are going up country, I think you'd struggle without at least some basic Thai

I'd agree with you to a point. I can get by in spoken Thai but nowhere near conversation level, I can't read nor write the language, and I used to enjoy going up country to see how good I was dealing with Thais that don't get much exposure to farangs. But if someone were to go live in an isolated community I would say learning the language is an essential, but not mandatory, to avoid going stir crazy.

[garro]

Not mandatory but my life would be very lonely without it. I live in a very rural part of Thailand and the only English native I know lives 7km away and we haven't spoke in a couple of years. None of the villagers speak English.

I know that the OP lived/lives in Saudi. I worked as a nurse there and learning arabic was mandatory. I had no real interest in learning it and so didn't learn much. I have loved learning Thai and continue to learn everyday.

Edited October 12, 2007 by garro

[Naam]

Dr.Naam, before you tell us your opinion, tell us first if you can speak Thai or not.

It always seems to be the lazy people who say it's not necessary.

Neeranam, shamefully i admit that my knowledge of thai is limited to numbers (construction site: mai ow Chang! yi-sip-ha cent no can do, sam cent can do too mut!) and a few polite sentences which i use on a daily basis when "communicating" with my Thai employees. there was i time when i was able to form simple sentences and articulate my wishes or answer questions. unfortunately that was looooong ago (my thai fiancée has been cremated 34 years ago) and the old worn out brain has discarded most of that knowledge.

[Tywais]

Mandatory - no. Necessary, for me, yes. Working at a university it would be difficult to work with students and technicians here without it. Also, my wife and I only speak Thai. However, I learned it because I wanted to and not simply because it was 'necessary' for me to. I would find it really frustrating even in a day to day life not being able to speak with the various people you will invariantly interact with such as market, gardner, street vendors, store sells persons, or even the next door neighbor, etc. Also, reading Thai has helped me in numerous occasions.

BTW - I have not stopped learning Thai. Nearly everyday I will pick up a new word or two and discuss its' usage with colleagues here.

Edited October 12, 2007 by Tywais

[meadish_sweetball]

I think for most people who are interested, learning Thai is a life-long pursuit.

I doubt I will ever reach the same level with Thai as with English, unless I should happen to get paid for learning it... which is not too likely at the moment.

[Captain Chaos]

Desirable but not essential - IF you're not venturing out of BKK or the major towns / tourist centres - if you are going up country, I think you'd struggle without at least some basic Thai

I should have added that although I think you can mostly get away without Thai language skills, I think you'll find the country a much more rewarding place with them!

I've picked up a reasonable level of conversational Thai over the years, but hardly fluent and I cannot read or write it. I wish I had invested the time in formal Thai lessons when I was working in BKK and that is something I intend to correct one day ... even if it's after I retire!

CC

Edited October 12, 2007 by Captain Chaos

[bannork]

I think for most people who are interested, learning Thai is a life-long pursuit.

I doubt I will ever reach the same level with Thai as with English, unless I should happen to get paid for learning it... which is not too likely at the moment.

Off topic I know but I was wondering if the following is true or not .

I had a Swedish friend who told me he actually preferred to use English rather than Swedish. I expressed astonishment and he told me it was to do with the number of adjectives. He said English had a far wider vocabulary with which to express oneself.

Just wondering what your thoughts on this one are MS.

Edited October 12, 2007 by bannork

[taxexile]

learning Thai is a life-long pursuit.

too true.

some days i can watch a tv programme or pick up a newspaper article and will be able to understand 90% of it , and feel very pleased with myself.

the next day i can watch tv or read the paper and have absolutely no understanding at all of what i am watching or reading and the smugness soon disappears.

the language forum here is very helpful for beginners and also those at an advanced level , and following the threads as they meander along is a good way to pick up new words and phrases and boost ones confidence.

you can live in thailand and never need to speak thai , someone will always come along and help you out , but as others have said , being able to communicate (at any level of proficiency) with thais in their own language makes life much more rewarding (for both thais and foreigners) and will show you that in spite of all the cultural differences that we love to complain about , deep down we are all the same , and it will open doors that would otherwise remain closed.

[toptuan]

I've lived upcountry for five years and my speaking skill is at about 10% and listening comprehension about 5%. (Sorry about the arbitrary rating system, but it gives you an idea).

Yes, speaking Thai is not essential for survival here, but I admit that it certainly paves the way for an easier go of it. I miss many opportunities and cues in daily life because of my lack of proficiency.

I speak English all day long and night with Thais who want to practice their English, but that's no excuse, just a fact. My students think I speak Thai because I throw in a Thai word now and then to explain an English word, but privately I know my Thai skills suck. In my own mind, it's starting to become an issue of modeling what I want my students to do. Perhaps other teachers are finding themselves in a similar boat. Time to get out of the boat and find the stepping stones across the water. It'd be nice to have my students think I walk on water, too.

For starters, I think I'll try spending more time in the language forum than I spend here--thanks for the tip, Taxexile.

[PeaceBlondie]

Because I sincerely believe I can't ever learn Thai, and I can already understand and speak Spanish, and because I'm a man of words, I doubt I'll last another year here. Every day is speckled with disappointment at non-communication.

[MrSquigle]

Not absolutely necessary, but it makes life much much easier if you can.

I have gooten by for 5 years.

I have fluent friends and can see the definite advantages.

I also have my own reasons for being 'lazy' as someone put it. Some people are very quick to put everyone in the 'lazy' basket. if you feel the need to gloat over your thai speaking ability, go ahead and use me as yout gloating bag, i am used to it and have big shoulders.

I have a friend who could not speak thai basically at all around 18 months ago. He decidied to learn, went to Chula full time, all day, then all night studying, then all weekend studying.

He can now have complete conversations with many thais, various classes. He can read and write also. I can see a huge difference in him with it.

I cannot and will not ever have the time to devote to this, i have much more important priorities for my time...a 5yo and a 2yo that love to play too much.

Also I look and see that doing it part time will take several years and I jst cannot be bothered, again more important immediate things and easier for me to put off. I am also tone deaf and have a bad memory.

[meadish_sweetball]

I think for most people who are interested, learning Thai is a life-long pursuit.

I doubt I will ever reach the same level with Thai as with English, unless I should happen to get paid for learning it... which is not too likely at the moment.

Off topic I know but I was wondering if the following is true or not .

I had a Swedish friend who told me he actually preferred to use English rather than Swedish. I expressed astonishment and he told me it was to do with the number of adjectives. He said English had a far wider vocabulary with which to express oneself.

Just wondering what your thoughts on this one are MS.

This is a bit off topic, but why not?

English is a prestige language for Swedes. Being able to speak English well is important, and you gain some social prestige by it too. English also sounds 'cool' to Swedish children, probably because so much popular culture comes from England and the USA and is associated with the language.

Virtually everyone in Sweden has some proficiency in English - even my grandmother who grew up in a tiny village in the countryside and only attended school for 6 years (without English instruction) knows enough words to be able to manage the type of communication that most foreigners here have with Thais (sign language, basic nouns and verbs, but no proper grammar).

Younger Swedes (under 40 or so) are more proficient than this, and of those that spend an extended period time in an English-speaking country or anywhere where English is used as a contact language, often start to dream and think in English. I did when I lived in Australia for a short period of time. When you get to that stage, you have long stopped trying to translate the language back to Swedish - you basically live English.

That way, your experiences in the all-English-speaking environment will be difficult to describe in Swedish when you would like to - many concepts you learn about will not have an obvious equivalent in Swedish, and even if it does, you just do not know it, and when you see it, it seems more foreign to you than the English expression you have already become familiar with from using it in your everyday life.

Chances are that if you met your Swedish friend here in Thailand, he has mostly expat friends, few of which are Swedes. That way, he may lack vocabulary to describe his Thailand experiences in Swedish. This frequently happens to me when it comes to Thai things - food, rituals, trees/plants etc.

Chances are that even though your friend feels more comfortable speaking English, he will still not be able to express himself quite as well in English as in Swedish, and unless he is a chef, he may not be familiar with words like 'colander' or what 'chive' or 'turmeric' means while he would no doubt still know Swedish 'durkslag', 'gräslök' and 'gurkmeja'.

It's true English has a larger vocabulary than Swedish (contrasting the number of speakers, English has over 1 billion whereas Swedish has a humble 9 million). Still, I remember from my linguistic studies reading that English native speakers typically do not use any more words than Swedes in everyday conversation. The fact that English has a larger lexicon to pick from does not mean that everyone knows this lexicon internally, or uses it when speaking.

[Naam]

I think for most people who are interested, learning Thai is a life-long pursuit.

I doubt I will ever reach the same level with Thai as with English, unless I should happen to get paid for learning it... which is not too likely at the moment.

Off topic I know but I was wondering if the following is true or not .

I had a Swedish friend who told me he actually preferred to use English rather than Swedish. I expressed astonishment and he told me it was to do with the number of adjectives. He said English had a far wider vocabulary with which to express oneself.

Just wondering what your thoughts on this one are MS.

no surprise. my mother tongue is german but i prefer to speak english even with german friends because it's easier to use than german. the reason is that the english vocabulary is much more LIMITED compared to german and it's easier to select an expression out of five available than an expression out of twenty-five. not to mention the extremely difficult german grammar. have no idea concerning swedish as all Swedes i've ever met spoke as good (or even better) german as/than i do

[qualtrough]

No, it is not mandatory, but the more you know the more your life will be changed for the better. I would be willing to wager that there would be a very high correlation between forum members who consistently have problems in Thailand (the moaners) and a lack of Thai language skills. Your understanding of what is going on here is very different if you must get it filtered through your wife/gf or an English-speaking Thai. I would go further and recommend learning to read and write too. Imagine what you would be missing in your own country if you were unable to read anything!

[sutnyod]

Thai language is absolutely mandatory when dealing with nice subjects.

Thai language is absolutely forbidden to use with lower life forms, such as police (Bangkok mainly), muggers and scammers.

[Naam]

No, it is not mandatory, but the more you know the more your life will be changed for the better. I would be willing to wager that there would be a very high correlation between forum members who consistently have problems in Thailand (the moaners) and a lack of Thai language skills. Your understanding of what is going on here is very different if you must get it filtered through your wife/gf or an English-speaking Thai. I would go further and recommend learning to read and write too. Imagine what you would be missing in your own country if you were unable to read anything!

your reasoning sounds quite "reasonable" Qualthrough. however, none of the points you mentioned seem to apply to me and my personal circumstances.

[qualtrough]

No, it is not mandatory, but the more you know the more your life will be changed for the better. I would be willing to wager that there would be a very high correlation between forum members who consistently have problems in Thailand (the moaners) and a lack of Thai language skills. Your understanding of what is going on here is very different if you must get it filtered through your wife/gf or an English-speaking Thai. I would go further and recommend learning to read and write too. Imagine what you would be missing in your own country if you were unable to read anything!

your reasoning sounds quite "reasonable" Qualthrough. however, none of the points you mentioned seem to apply to me and my personal circumstances.

Dr. Naam, my comments were in no way aimed at you. My apologies if it seemed that way.

[soundman]

None of my staff or inlaws speak more than three or four words in English so for me it is not mandatory, however, it is a necessity.

Cheers!