Education In Thailand

[Archa]

Not a calendar comment (as my girl declined to answer, correctly sensing that I was up to farang shenanigans) but the other day I was at Pantip and bought a couple things for 550 baht and 100 baht. Family operation, they let their 10 year old ring it up on the calculator and tell me how much my total was in English. He was ok at English, but when I gave him a thousand baht note I coved the calculator before he could punch it in...he had no idea how much change was owed me, and didn't seem to think there was any way for him (or anybody else) to know without using the calculator.

I remember reading that Richard Feynman thought math skills declined after students stop using slide rules . . . so I guess this is just the next step in human evolution.

[Maestro]

Sorry, I must make a correction: answers should be either 521 or 522 weeks.

...and the correct answer is 521.

There is no 10-year period that will give you 521 full weeks. The highest you can get is 521 weeks and 6 days, the lowest is 521 weeks and 5 days.

--

Maestro

[sumrit]

My Thai wife, who had a university education, has just given the same answer,480 because there are 4 weeks in a month. The strange thing is my 9 year old step daughter who is at school here in Thailand is doing far more complex maths at school than my 8/9 year old grandchildren do in their English schools. I couldn't ask my stepdaughter the answer because she was listening when I asked my wife.

[sugarhead]

Looks like we're loosing the point , which was related to the quality of education in Thailand.

I guess the fact that most, if not all, rich Thai families send their children to international schools (or expensive private schools) before sending them overseas to university, is more than self explanatory.

[onethailand]

Looks like we're loosing the point , which was related to the quality of education in Thailand.

I guess the fact that most, if not all, rich Thai families send their children to international schools (or expensive private schools) before sending them overseas to university, is more than self explanatory.

Not being a Thai, but having a choice between both systems, there was zero chance that I would put my kids in a Thai school, except maybe for a term to see how much different it is.

[Scott]

I am not good at math and wouldn't have necessarily gotten it right, either. I haven't used much math for about 30 years though. The problem, with regard to education is that students aren't taught to think. Thus, they rely on memorization. Most western countries teach you a method and then test your ability on a variety of different problems.

For example, I know a lot of people here (including students in our advanced Math classes where I teach) that can't figure out gas consumption. They can do lots of complicated mathematical gyrations, but a simple problem will leave them totally bewildered.

I've also seen students "punished" or reprimanded for using a different method to calculate the answer to a problem--you are to use the one the teacher is showing you--any other method is WRONG!

[Thanh-BKK]

For example, I know a lot of people here (including students in our advanced Math classes where I teach) that can't figure out gas consumption. They can do lots of complicated mathematical gyrations, but a simple problem will leave them totally bewildered.

Hi

This i can verify as well! Even tough my boyfriend seems to be one out of very few thais to get the "weeks in a year" correct, he is completely unable to tell me for example, if a car gets 20 kilometers per liter, how many liters per 100 kilometers are that? As i'm german, and in Germany the gas consumption is measured in l/100km instead of km/l here.

But then my boyfriend is able to calculate things involving tangents, sinus, cosinus etc..... which i can't even dream of... to be very honest, i had a "5" in maths pretty much all thru secondary school, that would equal a "d" in american i guess as the german system is 1-6 with 1 the best and 6 the worst. Still i need no calculator to figure out the price of a number of items combined or said fuel consumption.

Regards....

Thanh

[gzu88bv]

Looks like we're loosing the point , which was related to the quality of education in Thailand.

I guess the fact that most, if not all, rich Thai families send their children to international schools (or expensive private schools) before sending them overseas to university, is more than self explanatory.

Very good point indeed sugarhead, it seems that posters get stuck with all these weeks and days..................but what about the Thai Education System itself? I am glad and thanks God that I do not have to make that decision for myself anymore.

[LeungKen]

What an eye opening thread.

Some of us that were educated in England in the 50's will remember learning in primary school (by rote mainly) not only the number of days in a week, weeks in a year etc.,

but also a whole mass of amazing measurement,

Linear. - inches feet, yards, chains furlongs & miles etc

Weight. - ounces, pounds, stones, hundredweight & tons etc.

Capacity - Pints, quarts, gallons etc.

Money - farthings, pence, shillings, pounds & guineas

Not to mention rods poles & perches

Can anyone else remember questions like :-

:If Rock Buns are a Penny-farthing each - How much will a dozen cost ?

........Then in the late 60's after I'd moved to Australia had to learn all over again this time in metric.....Shiiiiiiit

Anybody else remember "Oklahoma" and the song "I Love you a Bushel & a Peck".

P.S. How many Sq. Yds in an acre boys & girls ?

.and would todays kids know how many sq mts in a hectare ?

[Cuban]

> 3 10-11 year olds who are considered bright enough to be on a TV quiz show

Sadly it is only a measure the 10-11 year olds that want to be on television - which in some ways indicates a lower than average IQ.

[Quark]

About the Question: Did the game show host give the 'correct' answer when none of the contestants got it right? If so, what did he/she say was the correct answer?

I ask this because quite some time ago I regularly listened to Late Night Love Songs on the radio and they were giving away free holidays to the UK if phone-in contestants got a simple question correct. It often took a whole week for the correct answer to be given! One of the questions was "What are the colours of the flag of England?" Unfortunately, I did not listen to the show on that Monday evening so have no idea if anyone got it right but all the answers on the other days were wrong until someone on Friday said "red, white and blue". They were told that they were the winner! I just couldn't believe my ears! I tried to phone the company to protest and e-mail them as well but all to no avail - no answer or replies were ever given.

If those asking the questions can't get it right what hope for the rest of us?

About the Thai education system: I teach maths here and on average my students are two years behind the expected level they should be at (using an international testing system) BUT they all pass their Thai maths exams every term. Pardon the pun, but something doesn't quite add up there, does it?

As long as teachers and administrators create a culture of cheating, there will be no need for students to learn anything, even by rote, let alone think for themselves.

On estimation: Thai students, in my experience, are most resistant to estimation or approximation as they are taught to get the correct answer. I taught my students how to estimate and set a test with questions similar to "Estimate 48 x 51". Obviously, they should have done 50 x 50 and come up with an estimate of 2500. I told my students that they must not give the exact answers as I would mark it wrong. Most of them tried to work out the correct answers yet only a few got the correct answers then.

On how to make it all better: Imprison teachers, administrators, principals etc who encourage cheating. Expel any pupil who cheats. No multiple choice questions. No re-tests using the same questions and make them take it at mid-term or term end after the one in which they failed.

My suggestions would work but have no chance of being implimented. These are the milder ones. I couldn't say what I would really like to also see happen.

Quark

[elkangorito]

At my college, cheating is simply not tolerated. The Thai teachers take their jobs seriously & encourage breaking away from certain Thai "customs". For example, the students are told that being wrong is a good thing. Of course, all teachers discourage any form of humiliation associated with being wrong. Thai "shyness" is no longer accepted as a reason for not answering questions.

My English examinations do not have any multiple choice questions...a pain in the bum to mark but really makes the students think.

I also issue my students with an "Examination Rules & Hints" document about 2 weeks prior to any examination & go through each point on the document to ensure that they all understand what is required of them.

I've only taught at 3 schools in Thailand & my current school (college) is the only place in which cheating is totally banned. Subsequently, students fail subjects & are then required to do them again (at extra cost).

BTW, it's a government college & has been around for about 35 years.

Edited October 15, 2007 by elkangorito

[mart29]

my gf came out with 26 weeks in a year.........she makes up for it by being lovely. oh well..lol

[mark lamai]

its a plot by the Thai bosses so they save 4 weeks pay for every employee per year.

[solo siam]

The answer to the question "how many weeks are there in 10 years" has two answers ranging from 520 weeks if each of the 10 years being counted has 365 days, up to 521 weeks if at least 7 of the years being counted have 366 days.

On probability, considering that years with 365 days outnumber years with 366 days at a ratio of 3:1 the most proabable and therefore the most correct answer is 520.

Even if the years counted are consecutive the answer is still 520 weeks (in whole numbers).

Sorry, I must make a correction: answers should be either 521 or 522 weeks.

lol,

Start a thread by moaning that Thais can't get a simple mathematics question right and then answer it incorrectly yourself.

Besides how could it be 522? the most extra days from leap years would be 3, the answer can only be 521.

[hans1977]

I think that comming up with the idea of asking a question like this is already stupied!

However, i agree that there is a serious lack of intelectual capacity for many individuals in this country.

The numbers might be different in other countries, but in general this appears to be a global fenomenon as well.

/Hans

Thai TV3 has a game show where there are a number of students about 10/11 year old and a celebrity answering questions for money prizes.

The question "How many weeks are there in 10 years" was asked in english.

All 3 students and the adult woman celebrity could not answer the question correctly.

Was this a public confirmation of what so many believe, that the Thai education system is severly inadequate ?

Or was it just that the people did not understand the question because it was asked in english.

I'd like to believe the latter, but my wife who has a degree in computer science also answered incorrectly and her english is good.

With a baby due in a number of weeks, this really has me wondering about education in Thailand. I always thought there must be good schools and student attitude has a lot to do with successful learning, but this has made me wonder whether education in Thailand is actually as bad as rumour says.

In which case if it is so bad, apart from overseas education, what options are there in Bangkok that don't cost a fortune (ie. international schoools).

Are there any decent government schools at all ? And if there are, how does one get children into them ?

[PhilHarries]

Thanks for the entertaining thread guys, at one point I thought it was going to rival Mr Hippo's (I think) line of ducks thread.

PS fwiw I'd have answered 520 assuming they'd be after the conventional rounded off answer.

[thedude]

i have thought long and hard about this issue of thai education.

it is not about thais being less intelligent.

it is the general lack of intellectual vigour. why? because it is less valued.

in other societies, being right proves your intellect and hence your superiority in handling difficult things, thereby getting you up the education ladder and eventually to a position in the higher echelons of society. its called meritocracy.

consider this....in this highly structured, hierarchical society with a buddhist patronage system, the right answer is not always the factually correct answer, the right answer may be the one that will get the respondent the furthest in life. here it is more important to favoured than to be correct.

being favoured will grant you benefits not accrued to others, it will land you a job and the hope that other opportunities will open up to you and your family should you maintain favour. in return, you shall fall under the fiefdom of your benefactor and contribute to his greatness which is undoubtably due to him because of his superior karma accumulated through several lifetimes of merit making.

true education based on the pursuit of logic and reason and truth is therefore due only to those who have higher karma - the rich, the elite and powerful, for they are of course more naturally disposed to attain the higher levels of enlightenment.

obviously i do not agree with this theory, but i am merely trying to understand the woeful state of eduction in thailand, and how the elite governments consistently fail to pay attention to bringing it forward.

[Theyreallrubbish]

Its not quite as extreme an example but there was a game show that ran in the US for several decades where the final was the contestant had to pick one of three doors. Behind two of the doors was a booby prize, behind was the grand prize.

After they chose their door one of the other two doors was opened, assuming it was the booby prize, the had the choice to switch their original choice or stay with the same door.

The answer mathematically and very clearly is always to switch. However, this game show ran for decades before people realised the strategy is ALWAYS to switch.

[madjbs]

Perhaps I am misunderstanding this gameshow but why is it better to switch?

[TAWP]

Since it's 1/3 that you have picked the right door from the start, but 2/3 you have picked the wrong one...

[solo siam]

Since it's 1/3 that you have picked the right door from the start, but 2/3 you have picked the wrong one...

Maths is obviously not the strong point of a lot of people here, by making another choice you have also only a 1/3 chance of picking the right one and 2/3 of picking the wrong one.

Any door has a 1/3 chance of being the 'correct door' at all times before any of the doors are opened, you are just swapping a 1/3 for a 1/3.

[madjbs]

Thats what I thought, Surely you gain nothing by swapping doors.

[Theyreallrubbish]

Since it's 1/3 that you have picked the right door from the start, but 2/3 you have picked the wrong one...

Maths is obviously not the strong point of a lot of people here, by making another choice you have also only a 1/3 chance of picking the right one and 2/3 of picking the wrong one.

Any door has a 1/3 chance of being the 'correct door' at all times before any of the doors are opened, you are just swapping a 1/3 for a 1/3.

The reason this wasn't caught is because its not obvious with only 3 doors. But assume there are 100 doors. You pick a door. The host then opens 98 other doors. Do you stick with your original door or do you switch to the other door?

[solo siam]

Since it's 1/3 that you have picked the right door from the start, but 2/3 you have picked the wrong one...

Maths is obviously not the strong point of a lot of people here, by making another choice you have also only a 1/3 chance of picking the right one and 2/3 of picking the wrong one.

Any door has a 1/3 chance of being the 'correct door' at all times before any of the doors are opened, you are just swapping a 1/3 for a 1/3.

The reason this wasn't caught is because its not obvious with only 3 doors. But assume there are 100 doors. You pick a door. The host then opens 98 other doors. Do you stick with your original door or do you switch to the other door?

It wouldn't matter, you would then have a 1 in 2 chance with either door, the original door is no longer a 1 in 100 chance, as you have taken 98 doors out of the equation. Its now a 1 in 2 chance, identical to the other unopened door, regardless of what its probability was before.

This is really simple probability, I'm surprised that anyone would think that the other unopened door would have any more chance.

In your 100 door example when the first of the 98 doors is opened and is not the grand prize then the probability that your or any other door is the grand prize drops from 1 in 100 to 1 in 99, then as another door is opened 1 in 98, etc... until only two doors are left with a 1 in 2 chance.

[Theyreallrubbish]

Since it's 1/3 that you have picked the right door from the start, but 2/3 you have picked the wrong one...

Maths is obviously not the strong point of a lot of people here, by making another choice you have also only a 1/3 chance of picking the right one and 2/3 of picking the wrong one.

Any door has a 1/3 chance of being the 'correct door' at all times before any of the doors are opened, you are just swapping a 1/3 for a 1/3.

The reason this wasn't caught is because its not obvious with only 3 doors. But assume there are 100 doors. You pick a door. The host then opens 98 other doors. Do you stick with your original door or do you switch to the other door?

It wouldn't matter, you would then have a 1 in 2 chance with either door, the original door is no longer a 1 in 100 chance, as you have taken 98 doors out of the equation. Its now a 1 in 2 chance, identical to the other unopened door, regardless of what its probability was before.

This is really simple probability, I'm surprised that anyone would think that the other unopened door would have any more chance.

In your 100 door example when the first of the 98 doors is opened and is not the grand prize then the probability that your or any other door is the grand prize drops from 1 in 100 to 1 in 99, then as another door is opened 1 in 98, etc... until only two doors are left with a 1 in 2 chance.

Ok. I'll spell it out.

Think of the doors as two sets. The first set is the door you choose. When you choose your first door it has a 1 in 100 chance of having the prize behind it. Which means the other set has a 99/100 chance of having the prize behind one of its doors. Open 98 of the 99 doors in the second set and that one remaining door still has a 99/100 chance of having a prize behind it while your door still has a 1 in 100 chance of having a prize behind it.

Do you see now why you should always switch?

Its the same with 3 doors except you change your odds from 1/3 to 2/3.

[solo siam]

Since it's 1/3 that you have picked the right door from the start, but 2/3 you have picked the wrong one...

Maths is obviously not the strong point of a lot of people here, by making another choice you have also only a 1/3 chance of picking the right one and 2/3 of picking the wrong one.

Any door has a 1/3 chance of being the 'correct door' at all times before any of the doors are opened, you are just swapping a 1/3 for a 1/3.

The reason this wasn't caught is because its not obvious with only 3 doors. But assume there are 100 doors. You pick a door. The host then opens 98 other doors. Do you stick with your original door or do you switch to the other door?

It wouldn't matter, you would then have a 1 in 2 chance with either door, the original door is no longer a 1 in 100 chance, as you have taken 98 doors out of the equation. Its now a 1 in 2 chance, identical to the other unopened door, regardless of what its probability was before.

This is really simple probability, I'm surprised that anyone would think that the other unopened door would have any more chance.

In your 100 door example when the first of the 98 doors is opened and is not the grand prize then the probability that your or any other door is the grand prize drops from 1 in 100 to 1 in 99, then as another door is opened 1 in 98, etc... until only two doors are left with a 1 in 2 chance.

Ok. I'll spell it out.

Think of the doors as two sets. The first set is the door you choose. When you choose your first door it has a 1 in 100 chance of having the prize behind it. Which means the other set has a 99/100 chance of having the prize behind one of its doors. Open 98 of the 99 doors in the second set and that one remaining door still has a 99/100 chance of having a prize behind it while your door still has a 1 in 100 chance of having a prize behind it.

Do you see now why you should always switch?

Its the same with 3 doors except you change your odds from 1/3 to 2/3.

Its funny that this thread started about the poor level of education in Thailand and has actually gone onto highlight it elsewhere.

As soon as any door is opened, the odds of any of the remaining doors having the prize behind it changes (the odds have changed). Its really very simple....

100 doors, prize behind one door, contestand chooses a door, his door therefore has a 1 in 100 chance of holding the prize...

10 doors are opened and no prize, EVERY door now has a 1 in 90 chance of holding the prize...

50 doors are opened and no prize, EVERY door now has a 1 in 50 chance of holding the prize...

90 doors are opened and no prize, EVERY door now has a 1 in 10 chance of holding the prize...

98 doors are opened and no prize, leaving just your initially chosen door and one other door, both doors have a 1 in 2 chance of holding the prize.

Its scary that anyone can argue otherwise, would your mind explode if there were two contestants choosing two different doors out of the 100, and 98 opened with no prize? Should they both swap to maximise their chances

[Theyreallrubbish]

Since it's 1/3 that you have picked the right door from the start, but 2/3 you have picked the wrong one...

Maths is obviously not the strong point of a lot of people here, by making another choice you have also only a 1/3 chance of picking the right one and 2/3 of picking the wrong one.

Any door has a 1/3 chance of being the 'correct door' at all times before any of the doors are opened, you are just swapping a 1/3 for a 1/3.

The reason this wasn't caught is because its not obvious with only 3 doors. But assume there are 100 doors. You pick a door. The host then opens 98 other doors. Do you stick with your original door or do you switch to the other door?

It wouldn't matter, you would then have a 1 in 2 chance with either door, the original door is no longer a 1 in 100 chance, as you have taken 98 doors out of the equation. Its now a 1 in 2 chance, identical to the other unopened door, regardless of what its probability was before.

This is really simple probability, I'm surprised that anyone would think that the other unopened door would have any more chance.

In your 100 door example when the first of the 98 doors is opened and is not the grand prize then the probability that your or any other door is the grand prize drops from 1 in 100 to 1 in 99, then as another door is opened 1 in 98, etc... until only two doors are left with a 1 in 2 chance.

Ok. I'll spell it out.

Think of the doors as two sets. The first set is the door you choose. When you choose your first door it has a 1 in 100 chance of having the prize behind it. Which means the other set has a 99/100 chance of having the prize behind one of its doors. Open 98 of the 99 doors in the second set and that one remaining door still has a 99/100 chance of having a prize behind it while your door still has a 1 in 100 chance of having a prize behind it.

Do you see now why you should always switch?

Its the same with 3 doors except you change your odds from 1/3 to 2/3.

Its funny that this thread started about the poor level of education in Thailand and has actually gone onto highlight it elsewhere.

As soon as any door is opened, the odds of any of the remaining doors having the prize behind it changes (the odds have changed). Its really very simple....

100 doors, prize behind one door, contestand chooses a door, his door therefore has a 1 in 100 chance of holding the prize...

10 doors are opened and no prize, EVERY door now has a 1 in 90 chance of holding the prize...

50 doors are opened and no prize, EVERY door now has a 1 in 50 chance of holding the prize...

90 doors are opened and no prize, EVERY door now has a 1 in 10 chance of holding the prize...

98 doors are opened and no prize, leaving just your initially chosen door and one other door, both doors have a 1 in 2 chance of holding the prize.

Its scary that anyone can argue otherwise, would your mind explode if there were two contestants choosing two different doors out of the 100, and 98 opened with no prize? Should they both swap to maximise their chances

Its quite ironic that you sneer at the education of others when you're unaware that I've been describing a very famous mathematical problem known as "The Monty Hall Problem"

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Monty_Hall_problem

[quiksilva]

What makes me laugh is that you guys think this is a reflection of Thai education standards. Newsflash: Its not just here its happening everywhere.

For instance in the UK Noel Edmunds has a new show on Sky One entitled: Are you smarter than a 10 year old? [no seriously, thats what its called]

This game show pits the wits of adults against school children, asking them a range of questions from the national curriculum for 6, 8 and 10 year olds. There is quite a bit of money up for grabs too, if you can answer 11 questions correctly you will win 250,000 quid.

Here are some of the questions posed:

Apparently they rarely have to pay out!

Edited October 16, 2007 by quiksilva

[think_too_mut]

At my college, cheating is simply not tolerated.

How can you do it in the era of mobile devices?

Why is not the old scheme - the students get marks like 12th of 20 or whatever their ranking might be within their class?

That repels the cheating. Either everybody or nobody cheats.