Got My Super Desktop Computer This Weekend

[crab]

Interesting and informative thread.

I now need a new desktop computer, with specs probably not too dissimilar to those mentioned. Unfortunately, I am technologically challenged and would certainly not attempt to design and make my own machine. This leaves me in a position where I either opt to buy a pre-packaged Acer Inspire M5630, whose vital statistics are listed at Shop4Thai as follows:

Intel Core2 Quad Processors Q6600

(2.4GHz/8MB L2¹ Share Cache/1066MHz FSB/EM64T)

2GB DDR2 up to 4 GB of 800MHz SDRAM (dual-channel support on two DIMMs)

500GB S-ATA 7200RPM HDD

DVD/RW16X SuperMulti Function (DVD Writer w/i Dual Layer Function)

9-IN-1 Card Reader

Intel G31 Express Chipset with Intel ICH7-DH

Intel Graphics Media Accelerator 3100 (Intel GMA 3100)

PCI Express x16 graphics card support

Embedded high-definition audio with 7.1-channel audio support

IEEE 1394 port

S/PDIF (Sony/Philips Digital Interface) support

Internal 56K fax-modem

Genuine Windows Vista Home Premium

Warranty 3 Year Parts & Labor

OR I find someone both cleverer than me and trustworthy to custom-make something for me. The net price on the Acer is 53,400 baht.

By the way, I'm not a serious gamer or architect or graphic designer. I don't need amazing 3-D or anything like that. But I do often have many programs open at the same time, which may include Firefox simultaneously accessing 10-20 pages; word-processor; a movie; iTunes playing music and/or converting files; sometimes two or more torrent downloading programs; etc etc. And I am very impatient. I hate sitting and waiting. Jai yen yen is not my middle name! My present 1.7 GHz Fujitsu Lifebook is totally inadequate. I want FAST - fast disk access; fast video redraw; fast processing; and as close a thing to real multi-processing as possible.

I'd be grateful for any comments and suggestions.

[crab]

Interesting and informative thread.

I now need a new desktop computer, with specs probably not too dissimilar to those mentioned. Unfortunately, I am technologically challenged and would certainly not attempt to design and make my own machine. This leaves me in a position where I either opt to buy a pre-packaged Acer Inspire M5630, whose vital statistics are listed at Shop4Thai as follows:

Intel Core2 Quad Processors Q6600

(2.4GHz/8MB L2¹ Share Cache/1066MHz FSB/EM64T)

2GB DDR2 up to 4 GB of 800MHz SDRAM (dual-channel support on two DIMMs)

500GB S-ATA 7200RPM HDD

DVD/RW16X SuperMulti Function (DVD Writer w/i Dual Layer Function)

9-IN-1 Card Reader

Intel G31 Express Chipset with Intel ICH7-DH

Intel Graphics Media Accelerator 3100 (Intel GMA 3100)

PCI Express x16 graphics card support

Embedded high-definition audio with 7.1-channel audio support

IEEE 1394 port

S/PDIF (Sony/Philips Digital Interface) support

Internal 56K fax-modem

Genuine Windows Vista Home Premium

Warranty 3 Year Parts & Labor

OR I find someone both cleverer than me and trustworthy to custom-make something for me. The net price on the Acer is 53,400 baht.

By the way, I'm not a serious gamer or architect or graphic designer. I don't need amazing 3-D or anything like that. But I do often have many programs open at the same time, which may include Firefox simultaneously accessing 10-20 pages; word-processor; a movie; iTunes playing music and/or converting files; sometimes two or more torrent downloading programs; etc etc. And I am very impatient. I hate sitting and waiting. Jai yen yen is not my middle name! My present 1.7 GHz Fujitsu Lifebook is totally inadequate. I want FAST - fast disk access; fast video redraw; fast processing; and as close a thing to real multi-processing as possible.

I'd be grateful for any comments and suggestions.

[stumonster]

crab

for 54 k baht you can get a much better computer than that acer and have it built for you from the shop from where you buy the parts.

that list does not mention the monitor. a nice sized LCD is a must for the price of them now.

and even if you are not into games , I would still recommend a graphics card rather than using the onboard video - also digital video out rather than VGA.

[crab]

crab

for 54 k baht you can get a much better computer than that acer and have it built for you from the shop from where you buy the parts.

that list does not mention the monitor. a nice sized LCD is a must for the price of them now.

and even if you are not into games , I would still recommend a graphics card rather than using the onboard video - also digital video out rather than VGA.

Thanks for the feedback, stumonster. In fact, I have now managed to get the full specs. The package includes a 22" LCD monitor and Nvidia Geforce 8400GS video card.

I spent a couple of hours at Fortune Town this afternoon and got some quotes. At first glance, it looks as if I can get either slightly higher specs for the same price or similar specs for a slightly lower price by having a machine custom-made, but the difference does not seem enormous, and I haven't as yet come to a clear view as to whether the extra security of Acer's arguably more secure warranty is worth that bit extra.

I do wish I was more knowledgable.

[Mozikillah]

btw, the GF 8800GT will be coming out on the 29th of October..

Wait till you see the reviews for this card, it makes the 640mb GTS feel like a crippled brother to it..

[ignis]

Have a look at this one at 1/2 the price your looking to pay.......

http://www.atec.co.th/pc_X-ziteNX8600GT_X2E.html

OK NO monitor but a 19" LCD is 6,700 from them....... noticed at Pantip 2 that the Acer 22" was 8,950 !!!!!!!!

•

AMD Athlon™ 64 X2 Dual-Core Processor 6000+ (3.0GHz,1MB L2x2)

•

CPU Cooling Fan AMD Approved

•

AMD 690G, socket AM2, 2PCI, 1PCI-Ex16, 1PCI-Ex1, 4DDR2 Dual Channel, 6USB (2F/4R:8USB max), SATAII+RAID 0,1,0+1 , IEEE1394 & HDMI Technology

•

2048 MB RAM DDR2(667) PC5300 Dual Channel(1GBx2) (8GB max.)

•

320 GB harddisk 7,200rpm (16MB) Serial ATA II

•

256 MB DDR3 128bit Geforce 8600GT PCI-Express /w TV&DVI port, DirectX10.0, OpenGL 2.0, nVIDIA SLI Support

•

DVD +/- R/RW drive

•

56Kbps V.92 internal fax modem

•

Gigabit Ethernet 10/100/1000Mbps WOL

•

High Difinition 8 channel AC'97 audio codec

•

35 in 1 Media Reader

•

107 keys ATEC internet keyboard

•

ATEC Optical scroll mouse [PS/2]

•

ATEC X-spider ATX medium tower case

•

350 watts ATX switching power supply

•

300 watts PMPO Stereo speaker

•

Linux operating systems & Open Office Software preload

•

Warranty 3yrs limited part & 1yr onsite services

[Flow]

I got 2 computers. Had them assembled at the shop but you know what? never again. if there is a problem with it you gotta take it back to the shop that put it together. You get an amateur trying to fix the problem and it is never 100% alright when I get it back. George is obviously a computer guy, so that isn't a problem for him. When there is a problem he can fix the problem himself, so for him it would be alright an assembled computer. But for me, NEVER again. My next one has to be a Dell or an HP . At least when there is problem with it I'll get REAL service from REAL qualified computer technicians. Just my opinion.

[dave_boo]

I love waving my e-penis, so here's my rig:

Tyan S2895UA2NRF

2x Opteron 265

4x 1GB Corsair ECC ram

4x 2GB Kingston ECC ram

Creative X-Fi Platinum

2x Evga 7900GT

3ware 9550SX LP

LSI MegaRaid 1600

1x WD 74GB Raptor for boot

4x WD 74GB Raptor (RAID 0) for games/apps

6x Segate 74GB 10k SCSI (RAID 5) for *important*storage

1x Maxtor 36GB 10k for Linux

1x Maxtor 18GB 10k for SWAP

6x Seagate 36GB 15k (RAID 0) for other games/apps

PC Power&Cooling 1kw PSU

Silverstone tj-06 case

I of course have stuck with XP, since I'm not sure how well Vista will run on it and I am also dual booting into SuSE 10.1.

Edited October 28, 2007 by dave_boo

[onethailand]

I got 2 computers. Had them assembled at the shop but you know what? never again. if there is a problem with it you gotta take it back to the shop that put it together. You get an amateur trying to fix the problem and it is never 100% alright when I get it back. George is obviously a computer guy, so that isn't a problem for him. When there is a problem he can fix the problem himself, so for him it would be alright an assembled computer. But for me, NEVER again. My next one has to be a Dell or an HP . At least when there is problem with it I'll get REAL service from REAL qualified computer technicians. Just my opinion.

This shouldn't be the case - assuming you can find a good shop to begin with. 90% of computer technicians in Thailand are frigging useless. But find a shop with at least one good technician and they can fix any computer you bring to them - and they can usually do it right away.

Try to do that with a Dell or an HP - see if you can handle not having your computer for a minimum of a week (if you're really lucky).

[cali]

HARD DRIVE: A lot of non technical people who aren't impressed by paper specs or synthetic benchmarks find the raptor just isn't that fast. Over and over I hear them say system boot, loading apps, and so on just isn't that noticeably quicker. The raptors performance edge has been slowly eroding over time. Benchmarks I have seen show running 2 cheap 7200RPM drives in RAID0 is quicker than a raptor plus it means EVERYTHING is quicker, not just what you can fit on the raptor and you don't have another annoying drive letter AND you save money. So one 7200RPM drive or two if you insist can be a very good choice.

VIDEO: Starting next week, the brand new 8800GT seems like the card to get. Better performing than most 8800's and priced lower. This is essentially the version 2, perfected 8800 that brings not just a great price/performance ratio, but great price and great performance.

CPU: the Q6600 is not as good a choice as the E6850 unless you over clock. The E6850 is a year newer and runs quicker (3 vs 2.4 GHz). Given the choice between two quick cores or 4 slower ones most of the people will see better performance with the former all of the time. And oh, it's cheaper too.

CASE/PSU: The two most overlooked components. You need good airflow to keep parts from over heating and stable voltages for reliability. This seems especially acute in Thailand where temperatures and clean power going into your system are far from ideal. See how your power supply stacks up on this list.

[ChiangMaiAmerican]

Have you tried doing any video rendering or similar applicaions? I have a P5BE with a 2.13 Ghz Core2Duo with 3mb of RAM and an Asus X 1600pro. When I render video is quicker than with my old P4 system but not the blazing speed I had hoped. I was wondering if the Quad core would improve it enough to make the investment worthwhile.

[dave_boo]

HARD DRIVE: A lot of non technical people who aren't impressed by paper specs or synthetic benchmarks find the raptor just isn't that fast. Over and over I hear them say system boot, loading apps, and so on just isn't that noticeably quicker. The raptors performance edge has been slowly eroding over time. Benchmarks I have seen show running 2 cheap 7200RPM drives in RAID0 is quicker than a raptor plus it means EVERYTHING is quicker, not just what you can fit on the raptor and you don't have another annoying drive letter AND you save money. So one 7200RPM drive or two if you insist can be a very good choice.

VIDEO: Starting next week, the brand new 8800GT seems like the card to get. Better performing than most 8800's and priced lower. This is essentially the version 2, perfected 8800 that brings not just a great price/performance ratio, but great price and great performance.

CPU: the Q6600 is not as good a choice as the E6850 unless you over clock. The E6850 is a year newer and runs quicker (3 vs 2.4 GHz). Given the choice between two quick cores or 4 slower ones most of the people will see better performance with the former all of the time. And oh, it's cheaper too.

CASE/PSU: The two most overlooked components. You need good airflow to keep parts from over heating and stable voltages for reliability. This seems especially acute in Thailand where temperatures and clean power going into your system are far from ideal. See how your power supply stacks up on this list.

I agree with most of your post. Especially those people who think that they need a quad core, but than they list only having a bunch of firefox windows open.

However, I really, really disagree about your thinking of the HDD. Granted, 2 7.2k hard drives(the perpendicular recordings more so) can transfer as fast as one Raptor IF they are in RAID 0. However, RAID 0 doubles or more your chances of a catastrophic hard drive failure. Plus, latency is going to be much worst. I'm quite happy with the performance mine give me:

[cdnvic]

Have a look at this one at 1/2 the price your looking to pay.......

OK NO monitor but a 19" LCD is 6,700 from them....... noticed at Pantip 2 that the Acer 22" was 8,950 !!!!!!!!

Linux operating systems & Open Office Software preload

No monitor and a free operating system pre-installed ... that pretty much explains the "bargain"

[cali]

However, I really, really disagree about your thinking of the HDD. Granted, 2 7.2k hard drives(the perpendicular recordings more so) can transfer as fast as one Raptor IF they are in RAID 0. However, RAID 0 doubles or more your chances of a catastrophic hard drive failure. Plus, latency is going to be much worst. I'm quite happy with the performance mine give me:

Chances of failure of RAID0 is the same as the configuration people are advocating which is 1 raptor and 1 something else. In both cases you've got two drives and in either case recovery is going to be a matter of replacing the defective drive, reinstalling, and restoring from backup. Maybe you could argue it would be a little better *if* the raptor was the one to let go and you kept all your data on the slow drive.

I am having trouble digesting your performance numbers since they are *far* higher than the maximum media data transfer rate of the raptor. I ran ATTO on my Seagate 500GB and it was typically 5x slower (see below). I have never owned a raptor, but everytime I've thought about it I hear how it doesn't do that much and that RAID0 (2) 7200RPM drives would be faster and cheaper.

[dave_boo]

However, I really, really disagree about your thinking of the HDD. Granted, 2 7.2k hard drives(the perpendicular recordings more so) can transfer as fast as one Raptor IF they are in RAID 0. However, RAID 0 doubles or more your chances of a catastrophic hard drive failure. Plus, latency is going to be much worst. I'm quite happy with the performance mine give me:

Chances of failure of RAID0 is the same as the configuration people are advocating which is 1 raptor and 1 something else. In both cases you've got two drives and in either case recovery is going to be a matter of replacing the defective drive, reinstalling, and restoring from backup. Maybe you could argue it would be a little better *if* the raptor was the one to let go and you kept all your data on the slow drive.

I am having trouble digesting your performance numbers since they are *far* higher than the maximum media data transfer rate of the raptor. I ran ATTO on my Seagate 500GB and it was typically 5x slower (see below). I have never owned a raptor, but everytime I've thought about it I hear how it doesn't do that much and that RAID0 (2) 7200RPM drives would be faster and cheaper.

Actually, chances of failure for that partition is what I was talking about. The very nature of RAID 0 (striping the data across drives) leaves it to the whims of the hdd gods. If just one out of the array go down, you lose your whole array. If you have different partitions on different hdds, you would only lose that one that went down rather than everything. Of course backups are mandatory! Notice that I use RAID 5 for my important data, and the Raptors/SCSI are for the stuff that I want to load quickly and don't care if I lose.

Raptors were designed to be entrance level enterprise drives. Hence, the 5 year warranty. The MTBF is quite a bit higher than a consumer drive, and I have yet to hear of one die that wasn't the vicitim of a lightening strike.

My apologies, but in the post number 38, I had listed that those 4 Raptors are in RAID 0. Unfortunately, I also have some of the total space formated in ReiserFS, and there's games installed, so it's not as spectacular as what an outer edge 100% free space test would be.

[dave_boo]

Have you tried doing any video rendering or similar applicaions? I have a P5BE with a 2.13 Ghz Core2Duo with 3mb of RAM and an Asus X 1600pro. When I render video is quicker than with my old P4 system but not the blazing speed I had hoped. I was wondering if the Quad core would improve it enough to make the investment worthwhile.

Most likely your program isn't taking advantge of both cores. When you're rendering video, are both cores pegged? If not, there's one of two things that could be wrong: the program or Windows. If it's the program, you may need to either search out another version that is multithreaded or contact the company to see if they have an update. If the program is multithreaded, did you build a new system, or did you drop your Core2Duo into your old one? If you did the last, Windows is most likely using the single threaded kernel.

[george]

How can u check how a dual/quad processor is performing and which applications are using the different ones?

[ignis]

Have a look at this one at 1/2 the price your looking to pay.......

OK NO monitor but a 19" LCD is 6,700 from them....... noticed at Pantip 2 that the Acer 22" was 8,950 !!!!!!!!

Linux operating systems & Open Office Software preload

No monitor and a free operating system pre-installed ... that pretty much explains the "bargain"

This was talking about paying 54,000 baht for an Acer, the link I posted was for a bigger 2 core system for 25,000 baht without monitor or MS, OS....... A 19" or even 22" LCD monitor + Vista or XP OS license, added you would still have many thousend left over, [most PC shops will install any OS you want for 300 baht the license for Vista is around 6,000 baht]

Myself always build my own have done for years, it is the only way to mix and match what you want in your PC] but there are some people that cannot and so must buy a ready built, the link I found for Aztec PC was just another option to add if anyone wants to.

Edited October 29, 2007 by ignis

[v8tfcorty]

mine is similar...

asus p5b premium board.(vista edition)

q6600 processor

8800gts vid card

4 gig kingston ddr2 ram (800mhz)

asus 550w psu

audigy 2 sound card

samsung 22in lcd

creative z500 speakers

asus light scribe dual layer dvd burner x 2

asus dvd rom x 1

asus silent square pro cpu cooler.

total cost 40,000 baht

quick edit

also 2 x 500gig WD hd's

all in a gview combat case.

Edited October 29, 2007 by v8tfcorty

[ChiangMaiAmerican]

How can u check how a dual/quad processor is performing and which applications are using the different ones?

With XP, hit ctrl, alt and Delete on your keyboard at the same time. The windows task manager should appear. Then click the performance tab. It will give you a real time graph of all of your cores. It can be interesting to watch. With my Core2 Duo system I find I seldom use most of the resources except when doing video processing. Have fun.

[crab]

mine is similar...

asus p5b premium board.(vista edition)

q6600 processor

8800gts vid card

4 gig kingston ddr2 ram (800mhz)

asus 550w psu

audigy 2 sound card

samsung 22in lcd

creative z500 speakers

asus light scribe dual layer dvd burner x 2

asus dvd rom x 1

asus silent square pro cpu cooler.

total cost 40,000 baht

quick edit

also 2 x 500gig WD hd's

all in a gview combat case.

Thanks to all of you. I'm finding this very helpful and have already significantly revised my ideas. The Acer now seems a poor runner in the pack.

v8tfcorty, I am impressed and a little puzzled by your lineup. Judging by the prices I have seen so far at Fortune Town I cannot imagine how you put that package together for 40,000 baht, not if the two HDD's are included. Where and how?

[Tywais]

How can u check how a dual/quad processor is performing and which applications are using the different ones?

Process Explorer (Microsoft) does a reasonable job of monitoring the performance of the CPUs and processes. When the graph is running you just move your mouse over the peak of interest and it will show which process it is and how much CPU usage at that time. It overlays the two CPUs on top of each other in the graph.

Process Explorer v11.03

[fisherd3]

I got 2 computers. Had them assembled at the shop but you know what? never again. if there is a problem with it you gotta take it back to the shop that put it together. You get an amateur trying to fix the problem and it is never 100% alright when I get it back. George is obviously a computer guy, so that isn't a problem for him. When there is a problem he can fix the problem himself, so for him it would be alright an assembled computer. But for me, NEVER again. My next one has to be a Dell or an HP . At least when there is problem with it I'll get REAL service from REAL qualified computer technicians. Just my opinion.

This does make sense, in my experience the average Thai whizz kid is very good with his hands but does not understand basic principles such as the cooling regime (e.g. which way round to mount the fans!), which would (probably) be handled in a dell type build.

Edited October 29, 2007 by fisherd3

[cdnvic]

I prefer to buy a production machine (Acer, Dell, HP for example) and modify it to my liking.

[dave_boo]

How can u check how a dual/quad processor is performing and which applications are using the different ones?

It was stated earlier how to check, but Windows also has another pretty spiffy option that's not widely known: setting the processor affinity. What this does is tell Windows to assign a specific process to a specific core. Very helpful if you want to run a program that's not multithreaded, but you can create to executables and run each executable on a different file with each on its own core, thus cutting your total time down quite a bit.

[onethailand]

I prefer to buy a production machine (Acer, Dell, HP for example) and modify it to my liking.

That's because you know how to... but in fact it can actually be a lot harder to add components to a "production" machine for various reasons such as proprietary version of OS, jumpers/dipswitches which need to be flipped/closed/opened, even the case design.

Given a choice, I prefer a generic machine - but then again I used to build them. And I have had to work with HPs and Compaqs which are, quite frankly, not tech-friendly, let alone user-friendly.

This does make sense, in my experience the average Thai whizz kid is very good with his hands but does not understand basic principles such as the cooling regime (e.g. which way round to mount the fans!), which would (probably) be handled in a dell type build.

You might be surprised to discover that some production machines have zero consideration for air flow. It's getting better over time, but some of the worst machines I've seen were production models that overheated because they opted for space-saving rather than airflow.

As I said, you will need to find out which techs know what they're doing. I would recommend Set IT Up at Seri Center as one good location, because I've known them for a long time. The Overclocking shop in Fortune is another good place for obvious reasons, and I bet there's an OC shop or two in Pantip as well.

Avoid the cheapest price places, though - these are very much the type which are put together by a student or someone without much knowledge of compatibility. You won't be paying much more at the places I mentioned above, usually a few hundred baht - but you will save yourself a lot of hassles.

[ignis]

Anyone notice this one in Thailand ?

Enermax Infiniti 720W power supply

[ignis]

mine is similar...

asus p5b premium board.(vista edition)

q6600 processor

8800gts vid card

4 gig kingston ddr2 ram (800mhz)

asus 550w psu

audigy 2 sound card

samsung 22in lcd

creative z500 speakers

asus light scribe dual layer dvd burner x 2

asus dvd rom x 1

asus silent square pro cpu cooler.

total cost 40,000 baht

quick edit

also 2 x 500gig WD hd's

all in a gview combat case.

Thanks to all of you. I'm finding this very helpful and have already significantly revised my ideas. The Acer now seems a poor runner in the pack.

v8tfcorty, I am impressed and a little puzzled by your lineup. Judging by the prices I have seen so far at Fortune Town I cannot imagine how you put that package together for 40,000 baht, not if the two HDD's are included. Where and how?

500gig WD HDDs cost 3,950baht each

[stumonster]

Anyone notice this one in Thailand ?

Enermax Infiniti 720W power supply

on the 4 th floor in panthip there is a shop with a large collection of cases and power supplies , there is a range of enermax power supplies.

[t.s]

sounds nice.

mine:

dell precision 490

intel quad-core xeon x5355 2.66

4 gig ram

nvidia quadro fx 4000

mirrorred 500 gb drives

dual dell 24 in flat panels

running vista business

Edited October 30, 2007 by t.s