The Movie "sicko"

[Penkoprod]

I thought the UK part of this film was nothing more than utter bullshit, in as much as he made great play on having people saying "but this is the NHS, Sir, nobody pays" or words to that effect

Utter <deleted> !!!!!!

I have NEVER seen anyone doling out tens and twenties to pay people their travelling expenses for attending hospitals like was shown in the film. Whether those tens and twenties be pounds, or pence. I have paid money to park in the hospital car park and not seen a facility to get my money back..................."but this is the NHS, Sir, nobody pays"???? Utter <deleted> !!!!!!

I have been on heart medication for the past 4 years, at a cost to me of some £65 a month............"but this is the NHS, Sir, nobody pays"???? Utter <deleted> !!!!!!

Try getting free eye care, or spectacles. Free dentistry, even. A set of dentures costs over £200 on the NHS......."but this is the NHS, Sir, nobody pays"???? Utter <deleted> !!!!!!

Most, if not all consultants/surgeons only work a couple of days for the NHS, the rest of the time is spent on lucrative private patients. Sometimes using NHS facilities to do so !!!!!

So i can only assume (rightly or wrongly) that the rest of this film is the same utter <deleted> as the part i am familiar with

Penkoprod

[citizen33]

I thought the UK part of this film was nothing more than utter bullshit, in as much as he made great play on having people saying "but this is the NHS, Sir, nobody pays" or words to that effect

Utter <deleted> !!!!!!

I have NEVER seen anyone doling out tens and twenties to pay people their travelling expenses for attending hospitals like was shown in the film. Whether those tens and twenties be pounds, or pence. I have paid money to park in the hospital car park and not seen a facility to get my money back..................."but this is the NHS, Sir, nobody pays"???? Utter <deleted> !!!!!!

I have been on heart medication for the past 4 years, at a cost to me of some £65 a month............"but this is the NHS, Sir, nobody pays"???? Utter <deleted> !!!!!!

Try getting free eye care, or spectacles. Free dentistry, even. A set of dentures costs over £200 on the NHS......."but this is the NHS, Sir, nobody pays"???? Utter <deleted> !!!!!!

Most, if not all consultants/surgeons only work a couple of days for the NHS, the rest of the time is spent on lucrative private patients. Sometimes using NHS facilities to do so !!!!!

So i can only assume (rightly or wrongly) that the rest of this film is the same utter <deleted> as the part i am familiar with

Penkoprod

Many pressures over the years have eroded the 'free at the point of treatment' principle. One factor that many people forget is the transfer of much long-stay care from the NHS to means-tested social care in the 80s and 90s. But you may be interested to hear when you talk of the UK and mention the cost of prescribed medicines (in England), that prescriptions are free in Wales and charges will be phased out by 2011 in Scotland and 2010 in N.Ireland. Some of the other annoying charges such as hospital car parking are also going in the 'Celtic fringe'. In any event the UK is still a far cry from the US.

Edited August 2, 2009 by citizen33

[EndofDays]

At the urgence of jingthing I picked up the Sicko DVD and was treated to 2 hours of pure entertainment. Toss your F-heit 9/11 and Columbine DVDs in the trash and pick up sicko. OMG it was hilariously entertaining. Really enjoyed it, did not buy into the propanganda (at least not all of it esp. the Cuba part) but man did Moore do a kickass job on this one. That guy has talent

mindblowingly innaccurate

[endure]

I thought the UK part of this film was nothing more than utter bullshit, in as much as he made great play on having people saying "but this is the NHS, Sir, nobody pays" or words to that effect

Utter <deleted> !!!!!!

I have NEVER seen anyone doling out tens and twenties to pay people their travelling expenses for attending hospitals like was shown in the film. Whether those tens and twenties be pounds, or pence. I have paid money to park in the hospital car park and not seen a facility to get my money back..................."but this is the NHS, Sir, nobody pays"???? Utter <deleted> !!!!!!

I have been on heart medication for the past 4 years, at a cost to me of some £65 a month............"

If you're paying £65 a month for meds you need to buy a pre-payment certificate. It will cost you just over £100 for a year and you can pay it in 10 monthly instalments:

http://www.nhsbsa.nhs.uk/1127.aspx

[endure]

And if you're over 60 you shouldn't be paying for scripts at all.

[zzaa09]

At the urgence of jingthing I picked up the Sicko DVD and was treated to 2 hours of pure entertainment. Toss your F-heit 9/11 and Columbine DVDs in the trash and pick up sicko. OMG it was hilariously entertaining. Really enjoyed it, did not buy into the propanganda (at least not all of it esp. the Cuba part) but man did Moore do a kickass job on this one. That guy has talent

mindblowingly innaccurate

Is that why it received so much criticism from the Medical-Pharmaceutical Indudtrial Mafia..??

[PastEgo]

gampaan have you ever been to france and tried their health service

it is one of the best i used to go to france 2-3 times a month for about a year

the health care system is fantastic

also because of work i stayed in the UK for a few years and the national health system is fantastic it is free and the one time i had to go to hospital for an operation it would have cost me $8K but i received the treatment for free

i have unfortunately had to call an ambulance here in the states when i found a man collapsed outside my workplace i waited an hour with him for the ambulance because he did not have medical

here in thailand it is not free but dam_n it is cheap and it is good many of the hospitals here could wipe the floor with hospitals in the states for value for money

[Jingthing]

Sadly even if Obama gets some kind of health care reform passed (highly likely he will get SOMETHING) universal national health a la Canada/UK/France is not on the table. The insurance companies are too strong to even try.

[Penkoprod]

Many pressures over the years have eroded the 'free at the point of treatment' principle. One factor that many people forget is the transfer of much long-stay care from the NHS to means-tested social care in the 80s and 90s. But you may be interested to hear when you talk of the UK and mention the cost of prescribed medicines (in England), that prescriptions are free in Wales and charges will be phased out by 2011 in Scotland and 2010 in N.Ireland. Some of the other annoying charges such as hospital car parking are also going in the 'Celtic fringe'. In any event the UK is still a far cry from the US.

If you're paying £65 a month for meds you need to buy a pre-payment certificate. It will cost you just over £100 for a year and you can pay it in 10 monthly instalments:

http://www.nhsbsa.nhs.uk/1127.aspx

And if you're over 60 you shouldn't be paying for scripts at all.

Its all very well quoting reasons for and ammounts to pay, but the point i was making was that, in the UK segment of the film More made great play on having people saying "but this is the NHS, Sir, nobody pays" Clearly this is a falsehood. Even you have said so.

So i am wondering how much fact and how much "fiction is there throughout the film. Like has been said.........good entertainment though

Penkoprod

[samran]

those who rail against a universal system forget the concept of equity and fairness. Access to medical care should never be based on the ability to pay.

They also fail to realise that a healthy society is a productive one. Strong economies are good for everyone last time I looked.

As for the payments by the NHS at hospitals. Those desks do exist. When living in the UK I was treated for sleep aponia at the St Barts hospital in East London. Apart from the prompt and excellent care (which cost me nothing) I did see the 'cashieers' desk which paid those on low incomes for bus and taxi fares home.

In terms of paying for perscriptions, well, 5 quid is hardly going to break the bank. But there is a good reason for some payment. It does provide some economic disincentive for little old ladies rocking up and getting refills of their favourite perscription drug. A mate, who worked as a health economist for a long while, said this can be a big problem!!

A small payment for some services does offer the chance of a balance between providing the incentive not to over utilise the system, but caps and limits on total payments mean that there will very rarely be a dis-incentive for people not to use the NHS/Medicare in Australia etc for those who really need the treatment.

While I am spoilt being in Thailand to have good insurance and a relatively good standard of medical care for a cheap price, it is also nice to know that I can fly back to Australia tomorrow and get needed treatment basically for nothing.

One of my favourite sites. Makes me proud to be a citizen: http://www.medicareaustralia.gov.au/

Its all very well quoting reasons for and ammounts to pay, but the point i was making was that, in the UK segment of the film More made great play on having people saying "but this is the NHS, Sir, nobody pays" Clearly this is a falsehood. Even you have said so.

So i am wondering how much fact and how much "fiction is there throughout the film. Like has been said.........good entertainment though

Penkoprod

The quote is true in the film, for hospital treatment. BUT...he did go to a chemist though and he clearly did say that medicine was 5 quid a pop....

Edited August 3, 2009 by samran

[endure]

Many pressures over the years have eroded the 'free at the point of treatment' principle. One factor that many people forget is the transfer of much long-stay care from the NHS to means-tested social care in the 80s and 90s. But you may be interested to hear when you talk of the UK and mention the cost of prescribed medicines (in England), that prescriptions are free in Wales and charges will be phased out by 2011 in Scotland and 2010 in N.Ireland. Some of the other annoying charges such as hospital car parking are also going in the 'Celtic fringe'. In any event the UK is still a far cry from the US.

If you're paying £65 a month for meds you need to buy a pre-payment certificate. It will cost you just over £100 for a year and you can pay it in 10 monthly instalments:

http://www.nhsbsa.nhs.uk/1127.aspx

And if you're over 60 you shouldn't be paying for scripts at all.

Its all very well quoting reasons for and ammounts to pay, but the point i was making was that, in the UK segment of the film More made great play on having people saying "but this is the NHS, Sir, nobody pays" Clearly this is a falsehood. Even you have said so.

So i am wondering how much fact and how much "fiction is there throughout the film. Like has been said.........good entertainment though

Penkoprod

Jeez. All I was trying to do was to save you some money.

[Penkoprod]

Jeez. All I was trying to do was to save you some money.

But totally misreading/understanding what i was saying

Thanks anyway, but i already get my scripts free, but was using it as a further example of "but this is the NHS, Sir, nobody pays" being artistic licence on the part of the filmaker rather than factual, and that there might be artistic licence throughout the other segments for other countries he used in the film

Pekopord

[citizen33]

Jeez. All I was trying to do was to save you some money.

But totally misreading/understanding what i was saying

Thanks anyway, but i already get my scripts free, but was using it as a further example of "but this is the NHS, Sir, nobody pays" being artistic licence on the part of the filmaker rather than factual, and that there might be artistic licence throughout the other segments for other countries he used in the film

Pekopord

So are you saying you tried to counter Moore's tendency to over generalise by giving us an entirely fallacious example? Talk about 'artistic license'! I must admit I was struggling to understand how somebody could be paying £65 a month for NHS prescriptions unless their GP was a complete imbecile (multi-item prescriptions are the norm and as we've said much of the UK population is exempt from charges). This is the kind of complete BS that gives people who don't have any first-hand experience a false impression of the NHS, which is still a great institution.

Edited August 4, 2009 by citizen33

[hhgz]

"So are you saying you tried to counter Moore's tendency to over generalise...This is the kind of complete BS that gives people who don't have any first-hand experience a false impression of the NHS, which is still a great institution."

Even more fun than the movie, was Mr. Moore's conviction that health care in England was free. He simply could not conceptualize that the British pay taxes - a lot of them - which actually paid for the health care. The proposed US health care plan is a work-in-progress, and it's hilarious to read posts about the specifics of the plan: "Oh no, it's going to be exactly like England, and you know how bad THAT system is." "Oh no, it's going to be exactly like Canada, and you know how bad THAT system is."

[Jingthing]

It is not going to be like the UK or Canada because the US is not getting UNIVERSAL government controlled health care. That doesn't mean it will be great and that doesn't mean it won't cost a lot of money. However, we already know for a FACT we are not getting UK or Canada type systems. The biggest problems the US has now are high cost, inefficiencies, insurance and pharma companies with too much power, and people with preexisting conditions being totally denied access to insurance. That's a lot to fix, there is no panacea.

Edited August 4, 2009 by Jingthing

[Huey]

Well the health care industry in yankland - tries to say Cuba has better health care system than the septics. (utter rubbish if you seen a real cuban hospital - I'd rather treat myself then go to one of those hospitals)

Easy to say if you never lived in the States in a poor area. If I didn't have health insurance, I would take that Cuban hospital over a hospital in poor areas of America ANYDAY. Sicko was on point.

[endure]

"So are you saying you tried to counter Moore's tendency to over generalise...This is the kind of complete BS that gives people who don't have any first-hand experience a false impression of the NHS, which is still a great institution."

Even more fun than the movie, was Mr. Moore's conviction that health care in England was free.

The NHS has never claimed to be free. It's free at the point of use.

[EndofDays]

Sicko is indeed a kind of propaganda entertainment.

However, there are lots of facts to support Moore's political thesis, and I agree with him on his core beliefs about the failure of health care in America 100 percent. The stunt going to Cuba was mainly to amplify that many victims of 911, the rescue workers who in their virtue became seriously diseased, are not covered for health care in America. That is disgusting, shameful, and a national disgrace. US health care for those with access is the best in the world. However, as perhaps 50 million Americans have no access, so all that great technology and science is worthless to them.

why don't those 50 million get a decent job, buy their health insurance and stop forcing us to pay for their emergencies visit?

[EndofDays]

France, ? give me a break...

France is rated tops in the world for health care by the World Health Organization. The USA is rated tops in COST alone.

So if you had a choice of a french doctor and facility and a u.s. doctor and facility and it was life or death you would choose.....?

[samran]

France, ? give me a break...

France is rated tops in the world for health care by the World Health Organization. The USA is rated tops in COST alone.

So if you had a choice of a french doctor and facility and a u.s. doctor and facility and it was life or death you would choose.....?

France. Why is there the assumption that American doctors are somehow better just because the insurance system is different? Sorry, forgot that the US was the centre of the world.

I'd also rather France as when I'd have recovered I wouldn't have to sell my house to cover what the insurance company has decided not to cover, leaving me on the street after I've been 'cured'.

[Jingthing]

The US health care system around the issue of ACCESS is a national shame and embarrassment. In the memory of the late great Senator Teddy Kennedy, lets get it fixed, just a little. He's our liberal gipper, win one for the gipper!

[paulfromphuket]

France, ? give me a break...

France is rated tops in the world for health care by the World Health Organization. The USA is rated tops in COST alone.

So if you had a choice of a french doctor and facility and a u.s. doctor and facility and it was life or death you would choose.....?

France, I would get decent food of course, maybe you have forgotten that france helped you win the war of independance, gave you the statue of liberty and is one of the oldest cultures in euope.

I think they would know what thet are doing.

Paris is not it texas Duh.

[Travel2003]

France, ? give me a break...

France is rated tops in the world for health care by the World Health Organization. The USA is rated tops in COST alone.

So if you had a choice of a french doctor and facility and a u.s. doctor and facility and it was life or death you would choose.....?

No doubt, I choose the French.

Not from France myself.

I remember the scare campaigns some of the insurance companies used to have.

You see this person on the operation table. Suddenly the Doctor stops, looks up, and ask: by the way, who is paying for this?

A reminder to always have insurance of course.

Funny to see a statement that 50 mill should get themself a decent job, so they can pay the insurance.

If no job, one still pay tax, for services and consumer goods.

Finally,

would be interesting if over night, all illegal immigrants (and workers) in USA were deported.

Then what?

One word: chaos.

[najman]

Sicko is indeed a kind of propaganda entertainment.

However, there are lots of facts to support Moore's political thesis, and I agree with him on his core beliefs about the failure of health care in America 100 percent. The stunt going to Cuba was mainly to amplify that many victims of 911, the rescue workers who in their virtue became seriously diseased, are not covered for health care in America. That is disgusting, shameful, and a national disgrace. US health care for those with access is the best in the world. However, as perhaps 50 million Americans have no access, so all that great technology and science is worthless to them.

Anyone notice where Castro went when he got sick..?? HINT: It wasn't Cuba.

Everyone in USA has access to healthcare. Even Illegal Aliens which is truly the SHAMEFUL aspect. The US healthcare is the best in the world by far. If the gov't would stay out of it, it would be even better and cheaper than now. When has the gov't ever done anything better than the private sector ?? Ever been to the DMV ? Do you really want those people in charge of your health....? Not Me....All you have to do is walk into an emergency room and you will be treated. No 18 month waiting for a Dr. appt. as in countries with socialized medicine. Check Canada....UK .

Since when is health care, insurance a right anyway ? I missed that part in the constitution evidently. What gives gov't the right to make me pay for someone else's healthcare ? What next, auto insurance ?? Why not ? Internet access ?? How about grocery insurance. Some people can't afford groceries, so here comes some good liberal to get another sucker dependant on them and their big nanny state gov't. Where does it end ? If socialists continue to be elected, it won't end until they run the US into the ground as they have everywhere else they get started confiscating wealth for redistribution ... as only THEY know what is best for you.

Of the highly touted 50 million, many don't have health ins. because they choose not to. Alot of factors blow this number many times way out of proportion, he_l, there's only 300 million people here..!!! Personal responsibility still plays some role here. Clearly this debate could, and should and will go on at least in this country for some time.

Take M. Moore movies like Al Gore and Beavis And Butthead. Maybe fun to watch, but not alot of accurate info there......

You must be an American. I would think the world health organization stats that show it in 67th place should be enough to see there is a lot of improvement needed there. Australia's isnt perfect but I can admit when something needs to be fixed about it. Why cant you? Too ready to defend america? What about the 25,000 people e-mailing the massive problems within a week of his announcement of making the DVD. Do you think there would be 25,000 similar stories from other western countires within a week. And since when does it cost $12,000 - $60,000 worth of equipement or man hours to re attach some fingers? If i was a doctor I'd rather take a discount of $300 pay for the several hours work than see a guy lose his fingers for life.

The doctors from the others countires would feel sick working in the US hospital envirnment where they would have to turn people away who couldnt pay. By your reasoning. Someone should pay for every service provided that tax doesnt cover. Need a police man to stop your robbery? That'll be $12,000 thanks. Need a fire put out? No problem thats $20,000. That sounds much more fair.

Actualy the drug companies are the ones rolling in it. Billions of dollars in profits and no care if some people cant afford them. And keep out the cheap alternatives.

If you cant admit there is a problem with the system then I'm sorry but there is no hope for you. You need to be able to confront the problem before you can deal with it.