Fred Sanford Posted October 14, 2007 Share Posted October 14, 2007 At the urgence of jingthing I picked up the Sicko DVD and was treated to 2 hours of pure entertainment. Toss your F-heit 9/11 and Columbine DVDs in the trash and pick up sicko. OMG it was hilariously entertaining. Really enjoyed it, did not buy into the propanganda (at least not all of it esp. the Cuba part) but man did Moore do a kickass job on this one. That guy has talent Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lazeeboy Posted October 14, 2007 Share Posted October 14, 2007 At the urgence of jingthing I picked up the Sicko DVD and was treated to 2 hours of pure entertainment. Toss your F-heit 9/11 and Columbine DVDs in the trash and pick up sicko. OMG it was hilariously entertaining. Really enjoyed it, did not buy into the propanganda (at least not all of it esp. the Cuba part) but man did Moore do a kickass job on this one. That guy has talent a real eye opener,i would be worried if i were him ,too near the mark ..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
britmaveric Posted October 14, 2007 Share Posted October 14, 2007 Well he is a movie maker - its entertainment, but fiction no less. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikethevigoman Posted October 14, 2007 Share Posted October 14, 2007 Well he is a movie maker - its entertainment, but fiction no less. woss it about brit ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
britmaveric Posted October 14, 2007 Share Posted October 14, 2007 Well the health care industry in yankland - tries to say Cuba has better health care system than the septics. (utter rubbish if you seen a real cuban hospital - I'd rather treat myself then go to one of those hospitals) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jingthing Posted October 14, 2007 Share Posted October 14, 2007 Sicko is indeed a kind of propaganda entertainment. However, there are lots of facts to support Moore's political thesis, and I agree with him on his core beliefs about the failure of health care in America 100 percent. The stunt going to Cuba was mainly to amplify that many victims of 911, the rescue workers who in their virtue became seriously diseased, are not covered for health care in America. That is disgusting, shameful, and a national disgrace. US health care for those with access is the best in the world. However, as perhaps 50 million Americans have no access, so all that great technology and science is worthless to them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JimmyTheMook Posted October 14, 2007 Share Posted October 14, 2007 Is this for sale in Tukcom ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gampaan Posted October 15, 2007 Share Posted October 15, 2007 Sicko is indeed a kind of propaganda entertainment.However, there are lots of facts to support Moore's political thesis, and I agree with him on his core beliefs about the failure of health care in America 100 percent. The stunt going to Cuba was mainly to amplify that many victims of 911, the rescue workers who in their virtue became seriously diseased, are not covered for health care in America. That is disgusting, shameful, and a national disgrace. US health care for those with access is the best in the world. However, as perhaps 50 million Americans have no access, so all that great technology and science is worthless to them. Anyone notice where Castro went when he got sick..?? HINT: It wasn't Cuba. Everyone in USA has access to healthcare. Even Illegal Aliens which is truly the SHAMEFUL aspect. The US healthcare is the best in the world by far. If the gov't would stay out of it, it would be even better and cheaper than now. When has the gov't ever done anything better than the private sector ?? Ever been to the DMV ? Do you really want those people in charge of your health....? Not Me....All you have to do is walk into an emergency room and you will be treated. No 18 month waiting for a Dr. appt. as in countries with socialized medicine. Check Canada....UK . Since when is health care, insurance a right anyway ? I missed that part in the constitution evidently. What gives gov't the right to make me pay for someone else's healthcare ? What next, auto insurance ?? Why not ? Internet access ?? How about grocery insurance. Some people can't afford groceries, so here comes some good liberal to get another sucker dependant on them and their big nanny state gov't. Where does it end ? If socialists continue to be elected, it won't end until they run the US into the ground as they have everywhere else they get started confiscating wealth for redistribution ... as only THEY know what is best for you. Of the highly touted 50 million, many don't have health ins. because they choose not to. Alot of factors blow this number many times way out of proportion, he_l, there's only 300 million people here..!!! Personal responsibility still plays some role here. Clearly this debate could, and should and will go on at least in this country for some time. Take M. Moore movies like Al Gore and Beavis And Butthead. Maybe fun to watch, but not alot of accurate info there...... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jumnien Posted October 15, 2007 Share Posted October 15, 2007 One reason the US Healthcare system is overstressed is that the population as a whole has been following in Michael Moore's footsteps when it comes to diet and exercise! It's Moore's model of obese lifestyle that is swamping the system. He is funny, I've got to give him that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gampaan Posted October 15, 2007 Share Posted October 15, 2007 One reason the US Healthcare system is overstressed is that the population as a whole has been following in Michael Moore's footsteps when it comes to diet and exercise! It's Moore's model of obese lifestyle that is swamping the system. He is funny, I've got to give him that. He's funny as a heart attack, or Big Mac Attack. I'll give him that. But just know going in, it's not exactly the truth.............or even close to it. Will he release his records of where HE goes for "health care" .?? Don't hold your breath........... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
qualtrough Posted October 16, 2007 Share Posted October 16, 2007 (edited) The US healthcare is the best in the world by far. :D What are you smoking, and where can we get it?? Edited October 16, 2007 by qualtrough Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gampaan Posted October 16, 2007 Share Posted October 16, 2007 Seems like you already drunk the kool-aid. Game Over............. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jingthing Posted October 16, 2007 Share Posted October 16, 2007 Everyone in USA has access to healthcare. Now that's propaganda! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
qualtrough Posted October 16, 2007 Share Posted October 16, 2007 (edited) Seems like you already drunk the kool-aid. Game Over............. I am pretty lazy so I just did a few minutes Googling that demolishes your claim that the "US healthcare is the best in the world". Game, set, match... WORLD HEALTH ORGANIZATION ASSESSES THE WORLD'S HEALTH SYSTEMS The World Health Organization has carried out the first ever analysis of the world’s health systems. Using five performance indicators to measure health systems in 191 member states, it finds that France provides the best overall health care followed among major countries by Italy, Spain, Oman, Austria and Japan. The findings are published today, 21 June, in The World Health Report 2000 – Health systems: Improving performance. The U. S. health system spends a higher portion of its gross domestic product than any other country but ranks 37 out of 191 countries according to its performance, the report finds. The United Kingdom, which spends just six percent of gross domestic product (GDP) on health services, ranks 18th . Several small countries – San Marino, Andorra, Malta and Singapore are rated close behind second- placed Italy. U.S. maternal death rate higher than Europe's: report Sat Oct 13, 2007 (Reuters) - The United States has a sharply higher rate of women dying during or just after pregnancy than European countries, even some relatively poor countries such as Macedonia and Bosnia, according to the first estimates in five years on maternal deaths worldwide. The report released by various United Nations agencies and the World Bank on Friday shows that Ireland has the lowest rate of deaths, while several African countries have the worst. The United States has a far higher death rate than the European average, the report shows, with one in 4,800 U.S. women dying from complications of pregnancy or childbirth, the same as Belarus and just slightly better than Serbia's rate of one in 4,500. Edited October 16, 2007 by qualtrough Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pattyboy Posted October 16, 2007 Share Posted October 16, 2007 I agree with a lot of these statements about Michael Moore. He's a movie maker -- a player in the entertainment industry, but he's not a true investigative journalist. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
qualtrough Posted October 16, 2007 Share Posted October 16, 2007 I agree with a lot of these statements about Michael Moore. He's a movie maker -- a player in the entertainment industry, but he's not a true investigative journalist. I don't think he has ever described himself using that term. If he has, please correct me. He is a documentary film maker. Some people object to some of the methods he uses to deliver his message, but the core of his message in Sicko is much harder to dispute. Most of the criticism of Sicko that I have read are mainly ad hominem arguments that focus on the man and not his message. That typically happens when critics don't have any ammunition to attack the argument or message. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gampaan Posted October 16, 2007 Share Posted October 16, 2007 I agree with a lot of these statements about Michael Moore. He's a movie maker -- a player in the entertainment industry, but he's not a true investigative journalist. I don't think he has ever described himself using that term. If he has, please correct me. He is a documentary film maker. Some people object to some of the methods he uses to deliver his message, but the core of his message in Sicko is much harder to dispute. Most of the criticism of Sicko that I have read are mainly ad hominem arguments that focus on the man and not his message. That typically happens when critics don't have any ammunition to attack the argument or message. My whole point was to ask what business is it of the gov't to be involved in health care in the first place. ? As Moore seems to think the gov't should be buying health care. Socialism. From a true socialist. You notice where Moore lives don't you ? The gov't doesn't buy your auto insurance, why health??? Where does it stop? Whatever happened to personal responsibility? You can spin some numbers anyway you want to. I haven't seen anyone address this as of yet. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jingthing Posted October 16, 2007 Share Posted October 16, 2007 (edited) My whole point was to ask what business is it of the gov't to be involved in health care in the first place. ? As Moore seems to think the gov't should be buying health care. Socialism. From a true socialist. You notice where Moore lives don't you ? The gov't doesn't buy your auto insurance, why health??? Where does it stop? Whatever happened to personal responsibility? Where to start with someone like you? The US government is ALREADY involved in health care: medicare, veteran's care, sometimes children's health care, insurance for government officials, among other government run health care programs. Moore is for single payer health care, similar to Canada, France, the UK. Health insurance in the US for adults is tied to employment. Now due to expense, many employers are not even offering it. Many millions cannot afford the insurance and many millions can not buy insurance that will cover their health conditions AT ANY PRICE. Without insurance, because US health is the most EXPENSIVE in the world, many thousands of Americans die. Many millions do not come in for screening and then do develop late stage untreatable cancers (among other fatal diseases), which do end up costing the state money as they spend down to welfare levels, and then of course they die when they could have been saved if they lived in a more civilized country like France, Canada, or the UK. Totally preventable deaths. Health care is in a totally separate class of need than auto insurance. It is truly life and death. And the smart money is on screening, prevention, and health education, not trying to patch up late stage people. Call it socialism if you want, Mr. RED BAITER, if it is, the US government is already socialist. Where does it end? Where does it begin? Moore is correct. The US health care system is totally SICKO. It is indeed a national disgrace and embarrassment, right up there with George W Bush, and the Iraq debacle. It is not even CLOSE to the best in the world, in fact the World Health Organization rates the US system VERY LOW. Edited October 16, 2007 by Jingthing Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gampaan Posted October 16, 2007 Share Posted October 16, 2007 ............ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OxfordWill Posted October 16, 2007 Share Posted October 16, 2007 Just wanted to add my laughter to the idea that us is best health system in world. Sure, it is, if you have never left the us. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tim207 Posted October 16, 2007 Share Posted October 16, 2007 U.S. maternal death rate higher than Europe's: reportSat Oct 13, 2007 (Reuters) - The United States has a sharply higher rate of women dying during or just after pregnancy than European countries, even some relatively poor countries such as Macedonia and Bosnia, according to the first estimates in five years on maternal deaths worldwide. The report released by various United Nations agencies and the World Bank on Friday shows that Ireland has the lowest rate of deaths, while several African countries have the worst. The United States has a far higher death rate than the European average, the report shows, with one in 4,800 U.S. women dying from complications of pregnancy or childbirth, the same as Belarus and just slightly better than Serbia's rate of one in 4,500. Just like to point out that if you don't know why something is happening you can not asign blame, in this case to the quality of healthcare. For instance, I recently read a report about Canadian doctors sending high risk pregnancy cases to the US because they didn't have the facilities for them. I have no idea how much this might factor in but it is just an example of something that skews statistics. You also may notice that the Reuters story says "according to the first estimates in five years". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
qualtrough Posted October 17, 2007 Share Posted October 17, 2007 U.S. maternal death rate higher than Europe's: reportSat Oct 13, 2007 (Reuters) - The United States has a sharply higher rate of women dying during or just after pregnancy than European countries, even some relatively poor countries such as Macedonia and Bosnia, according to the first estimates in five years on maternal deaths worldwide. The report released by various United Nations agencies and the World Bank on Friday shows that Ireland has the lowest rate of deaths, while several African countries have the worst. The United States has a far higher death rate than the European average, the report shows, with one in 4,800 U.S. women dying from complications of pregnancy or childbirth, the same as Belarus and just slightly better than Serbia's rate of one in 4,500. Just like to point out that if you don't know why something is happening you can not asign blame, in this case to the quality of healthcare. For instance, I recently read a report about Canadian doctors sending high risk pregnancy cases to the US because they didn't have the facilities for them. I have no idea how much this might factor in but it is just an example of something that skews statistics. You also may notice that the Reuters story says "according to the first estimates in five years". You raise a valid point, but I doubt very much that would appreciably affect US ranking in this case, or raise it very much above its relatively low ranking. The main point of my post was to point out the total inaccuracy of a total poster's claim that the US has the best healthcare system in the world, which is a claim that few in the US medical care industry make anymore. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gampaan Posted October 17, 2007 Share Posted October 17, 2007 U.S. maternal death rate higher than Europe's: reportSat Oct 13, 2007 (Reuters) - The United States has a sharply higher rate of women dying during or just after pregnancy than European countries, even some relatively poor countries such as Macedonia and Bosnia, according to the first estimates in five years on maternal deaths worldwide. The report released by various United Nations agencies and the World Bank on Friday shows that Ireland has the lowest rate of deaths, while several African countries have the worst. The United States has a far higher death rate than the European average, the report shows, with one in 4,800 U.S. women dying from complications of pregnancy or childbirth, the same as Belarus and just slightly better than Serbia's rate of one in 4,500. Just like to point out that if you don't know why something is happening you can not asign blame, in this case to the quality of healthcare. For instance, I recently read a report about Canadian doctors sending high risk pregnancy cases to the US because they didn't have the facilities for them. I have no idea how much this might factor in but it is just an example of something that skews statistics. You also may notice that the Reuters story says "according to the first estimates in five years". You raise a valid point, but I doubt very much that would appreciably affect US ranking in this case, or raise it very much above its relatively low ranking. The main point of my post was to point out the total inaccuracy of a total poster's claim that the US has the best healthcare system in the world, which is a claim that few in the US medical care industry make anymore. The US has a well documented history of what has been accomplished here as far as medical advances. Far beyond any other country. This is indisputible. Not because of the gov't, but despite it. The private sector will find a need and a soution, that is how capitalism works. And it does. Everytime it's tried. The health care in the US is the best there is. Sure other countries have great facilities, but overall, there's not much comparison. The SYSTEM sucks and is EXPENSIVE, precicesly BECAUSE the government is involved. Less, not more gov't intervention and regulation is what is needed. Get the government out of the health care business. ! Fix the roads and do what you are there to do. In the US we have a Constitution. It says nothing about gov't funding health care. Why is that so hard to understand ? Why do you all want the gov't taking your money and giving it to someone else? Someone said they do it already, so let them do it some more.???? Huh ? What ? You can give them your cash. Do the politicians know how to better spend YOUR money ? Do you really need the gov't to be your Nanny ?? It's really not the gov't's job to be your Mommy.... Why are Canadians pouring across the border to get treated in the US? Because their fantastic system is so great, or that it makes them wait a year before they even see a Dr. ? Ask some folks in the UK how they like their system. France, ? give me a break......... I'd be more than willing to debate civil folks and find another answer, of course nothing's perfect, but don't be so sensitive to other options. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jingthing Posted October 17, 2007 Share Posted October 17, 2007 (edited) France, ? give me a break... France is rated tops in the world for health care by the World Health Organization. The USA is rated tops in COST alone. Edited October 17, 2007 by Jingthing Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
qualtrough Posted October 17, 2007 Share Posted October 17, 2007 gampaan The basis of your complaints seems to be that the private sector always does a better job of things than the government. I don't see where you get that idea. Does Enron ring a bell, screwing California taxpayers and bankrupting their investors and workers? How about the private sector contractors ripping the government (the US taxpayer) for billions in Iraq and New Orleans? The government often does an excellent job. I was in an out getting my new drivers license in AZ in less than one hour. Neat, clean, organized, and inexpensive. Ditto for MN. The passport office here in Thailand offers a world class service the rivals or exceeds anything similar service in the private sector anywhere in the world. And apparently the French government is able to offer a very good healthcare system that the French by and large are quite happy with and quite willing to pay for. Government run programs are not always good, but it is nowhere near the demon that you and many other makeit out to be. Watch something other than Fox, listen to someone other than Rush, or read something other than National Review, and you might be surprised at what you learn. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Prakanong Posted October 17, 2007 Share Posted October 17, 2007 Sicko is indeed a kind of propaganda entertainment.However, there are lots of facts to support Moore's political thesis, and I agree with him on his core beliefs about the failure of health care in America 100 percent. The stunt going to Cuba was mainly to amplify that many victims of 911, the rescue workers who in their virtue became seriously diseased, are not covered for health care in America. That is disgusting, shameful, and a national disgrace. US health care for those with access is the best in the world. However, as perhaps 50 million Americans have no access, so all that great technology and science is worthless to them. Anyone notice where Castro went when he got sick..?? HINT: It wasn't Cuba. Everyone in USA has access to healthcare. Even Illegal Aliens which is truly the SHAMEFUL aspect. The US healthcare is the best in the world by far. If the gov't would stay out of it, it would be even better and cheaper than now. When has the gov't ever done anything better than the private sector ?? Ever been to the DMV ? Do you really want those people in charge of your health....? Not Me....All you have to do is walk into an emergency room and you will be treated. No 18 month waiting for a Dr. appt. as in countries with socialized medicine. Check Canada....UK . Since when is health care, insurance a right anyway ? I missed that part in the constitution evidently. What gives gov't the right to make me pay for someone else's healthcare ? What next, auto insurance ?? Why not ? Internet access ?? How about grocery insurance. Some people can't afford groceries, so here comes some good liberal to get another sucker dependant on them and their big nanny state gov't. Where does it end ? If socialists continue to be elected, it won't end until they run the US into the ground as they have everywhere else they get started confiscating wealth for redistribution ... as only THEY know what is best for you. Of the highly touted 50 million, many don't have health ins. because they choose not to. Alot of factors blow this number many times way out of proportion, he_l, there's only 300 million people here..!!! Personal responsibility still plays some role here. Clearly this debate could, and should and will go on at least in this country for some time. Take M. Moore movies like Al Gore and Beavis And Butthead. Maybe fun to watch, but not alot of accurate info there...... Oh another healthcare expert One tht has swallowed the propaganda whole too - what with you and Sicko its two sides of the same coin. Yes, you can get the best healthcare in the USA if you can afford it - and there lies the rub. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
percy2 Posted October 17, 2007 Share Posted October 17, 2007 (edited) Anyone notice where Castro went when he got sick..?? HINT: It wasn't Cuba. Castro was treated in Cuba , by a Spanish surgeon. The US has a well documented history of what has been accomplished here as far as medical advances. Far beyond any other country. This is indisputible. The US has a great record on medical advancements. Whether its the best record in the world or not I don't know , so from my perspective it is disputable. Though it seems everybody is talking about health care, not medical advancements. How about grocery insurance. Some people can't afford groceries Guess you'd prefer to see people starving to death on the streets. Nice one. ............ You should be. Edit to emoticons Edited October 17, 2007 by percy2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jingthing Posted October 17, 2007 Share Posted October 17, 2007 (edited) How about grocery insurance. Some people can't afford groceries Duh! The US already has that and has for many decades. It is called the food stamp program. http://www.cbpp.org/6-6-06fa.htm I know, ###### socialists! The richest country in the world in foodstuffs and the nerve of the government to make sure their own people don't starve! BTW, if medical care in the US was as cheap as food, we wouldn't need to be having this discussion. Edited October 17, 2007 by Jingthing Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
noahvail Posted July 31, 2009 Share Posted July 31, 2009 Part of the health care cost in the US is malpractice insurance. The average yearly rate for that insurance for cardiologists in Arizona three years ago was slightly more than 3,400,000 baht. That's before the costs of the office, equipment, staff salaries, etc. (Doesn't 3.4MM baht sound so much more expensive than US$100,000?) Anaesthesiologists back in 2001 paid an average of over US$75,000 per year. It starts to add up fast when you need a specialist operation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
citizen33 Posted July 31, 2009 Share Posted July 31, 2009 If you were interested in the stuff about the Cuban health care system in Sicko, and also the arguments about UC, you might want to get the documentary film, !Salud! http://www.saludthefilm.net/ns/main.html It has obviously been put together from a certain ideological standpoint, but it does not have the same political agenda as Moore's film. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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