Beggars In The 'rai

[sceadugenga]

I was down the main market the other day with a visitor and an adult male crippled beggar pursued us for several hundred meters. I think I can count the times I've been accosted by beggars in Chiang Rai on one hand.

Is it because it's a prosperous town or do the police move them on?

[Joel Barlow]

There are a couple old ladies who frequent the steps to Bangkok Bank - who seem harmless and desperate enough.

What I really dislike is when they come into a restaurant, such as mu-kataah...

bad enough having the flower-selling kids bother you while eating!

[Keithangel]

There are a couple old ladies who frequent the steps to Bangkok Bank - who seem harmless and desperate enough.

What I really dislike is when they come into a restaurant, such as mu-kataah...

bad enough having the flower-selling kids bother you while eating!

Ive discovered an interesting personal strategy for this whilst eating.

I ask if they are hungry, and if so to sit at another table and eat somthing, so far 3 times, they declined and left me alone much more quickly than if I ignor/am dismissive,

one young boy at mengrai seemed non- plussed that I offered him an icecream (thats what I was doing)and he hasnt bothered me with his flowers since.

I will ,on occasions give to old people I find it hard to project what it would be like to be old ,maybe alone and without resources here.

Edited October 21, 2007 by Keithangel

[Grover]

I was down the main market the other day with a visitor and an adult male crippled beggar pursued us for several hundred meters.

You were pursued by a cripple for 700 meters ?

Life is telling you that you are walking too slow

[TakingAVacation]

If it's a woman with child, I always give her the benefit of the doubt and peel off a 20B and hand it to her with a smile.

I recommend others do the same. It's not gonna break ya...

[chang35baht]

If it's a woman with child, I always give her the benefit of the doubt and peel off a 20B and hand it to her with a smile.

I recommend others do the same. It's not gonna break ya...

Exactly TAV. Good karma all round. It`s not as if we get hit on all the time is it?

Could be worse. Now, in the UK, begging has become a business/profession. You see people getting dropped of in flash cars next to atm`s where they will sit for their 8 hour shift with there "please feel sorry for me I`m homeless" sign and the obligatory scruffy dog. Only to get picked up again after their shift is over. Trying to shame you into giving some of your withdrawal to them.

I would hardly be griping about something such as this, which in Chiang Rai,at most, is a minor irritation.

[dman]

If it's a woman with child, I always give her the benefit of the doubt and peel off a 20B and hand it to her with a smile.

I recommend others do the same. It's not gonna break ya...

Exactly TAV. Good karma all round. It`s not as if we get hit on all the time is it?

Could be worse. Now, in the UK, begging has become a business/profession. You see people getting dropped of in flash cars next to atm`s where they will sit for their 8 hour shift with there "please feel sorry for me I`m homeless" sign and the obligatory scruffy dog. Only to get picked up again after their shift is over. Trying to shame you into giving some of your withdrawal to them.

I would hardly be griping about something such as this, which in Chiang Rai,at most, is a minor irritation.

I know your heart is in the right place but giving money to anyone on the street will only encourage more to do the same. Soon enough it will be a problem/profession in CR as you describe in the UK. Sends all the wrong messages, especially to children. I agree with the other OP about offering to buy food instead of handing out money when asked to make a donation on the street. Dontaing your time and or money to a charity or foundation without Government or Religious affiliation is the way to make a positive difference. If you are not aware of any in CR send me a message. Cheers.

[sceadugenga]

I was down the main market the other day with a visitor and an adult male crippled beggar pursued us for several hundred meters.

You were pursued by a cripple for 700 meters ?

Life is telling you that you are walking too slow

Wictionary defines several as... Of persons or objects, more than two, but not very many

Even so I may be guilty of a touch of hyperbole. He was certainly very sprightly and shuffled along at a great rate, taking short cuts between the aisles to wait for us on the return trip. His one word of English was "Hello". I noticed a guy with similar deformities selling lottery tickets at the market entrance.

[dman]

If it's a woman with child, I always give her the benefit of the doubt and peel off a 20B and hand it to her with a smile.

I recommend others do the same. It's not gonna break ya...

Exactly TAV. Good karma all round. It`s not as if we get hit on all the time is it?

Could be worse. Now, in the UK, begging has become a business/profession. You see people getting dropped of in flash cars next to atm`s where they will sit for their 8 hour shift with there "please feel sorry for me I`m homeless" sign and the obligatory scruffy dog. Only to get picked up again after their shift is over. Trying to shame you into giving some of your withdrawal to them.

I would hardly be griping about something such as this, which in Chiang Rai,at most, is a minor irritation.

Chang

I know your heart is in the right place but giving money to anyone on the street will only encourage more to do the same. Soon enough it will be a problem/profession in CR as you describe in the UK. Sends all the wrong messages, especially to children. I agree with the other OP about offering to buy food instead of handing out money when asked to make a donation on the street. Dontaing your time and or money to a charity or foundation without Government or Religious affiliation is the way to make a positive change in the lives of less fortunate people in CR. If you are not aware of any send me a message. Cheers.

[Ulysses G.]

In Chiang Mai, we have had the same gang of scum begging every day for years. The women rent different babies and ALWAYS have one. Only the babies change over the years.

The worst is a one eyed old b*tch who jumps in everyones face and demands money and used to grab your arm until a few farangs slugged her.

Don't give money to human garbage or you will have the same types targetting Chiang Rai!

[Crow Boy]

Ok let's tone this down a bit please. People do what they have to do to survive. We may not like it, we may not understand it, but we need to look at it objectively. For many of these people it is a socially acceptable way to make a living and for many is their ownly alternative.

CB

[sceadugenga]

Ok let's tone this down a bit please. People do what they have to do to survive. We may not like it, we may not understand it, but we need to look at it objectively. For many of these people it is a socially acceptable way to make a living and for many is their ownly alternative.

CB

My point in my OP was that it seems to be a relatively rare practice in the 'Rai.

My wife shares UG's sentiments 100%, she says there's work for everyone here and only lazy people beg.

I had a smile about the changing babies though. there was a young woman who used to beg for years under the Sky Train steps near Asok on Sukhemvit Road who always had two babies who never seemed to get any older. A bit like comic strip characters.

[my friend I]

I' d like to see the end of that begging elephant, or at least put lights on it. Its always in the middle of the street.

[Ulysses G.]

I lived in Hanoi for one year and saw how the beggars were always the same people and they wouldn't even bother to ask Vietnamese people for money - just white people. They only targeted foreigners and were as nasty and aggresive as possible - especially when someone was eating in an area where they could bother them somehow.

The real poor people never asked anyone for money.

I got to the point where when one of the proffesional beggars (about 99% of them) would approach me that had bothered me before , I would start yelling at the top of my lungs to get the f___ away from me and they started to just avoid me all of the time.

I'm sorry, but I get really sick of nasty little parasites thinking they can bother me because I have white skin!

(By the way, I have nothing against someone who is truly down on their luck begging until they can figure something else out, or someone who just sits with a begging bowl and doesn't hurrass people, but I HATE aggresive beggars!)

Edited October 22, 2007 by Ulysses G.

[sceadugenga]

There's a pretty aggressive team across the border in Tachilek, and some of them very young. I took a couple of mates over last month one of whom wanted to look at some silver jewelry so I saw a tout I knew who spoke excellent English and he took us to a couple of shops, scattering the following crowd of beggars as he lead us there. One small boy persevered and while we waited at the shop one of the guys asked if it would hurt to give him ten baht. I've been in Thailand long enough to know the correct answer to that sort of question.... "up to you".

The kid let out a triumphant yell and more children poured out of every alleyway and raced down the street towards him.

:D

[Grover]

He was certainly very sprightly and shuffled along at a great rate, taking short cuts between the aisles to wait for us on the return trip. His one word of English was "Hello".

[cdnvic]

One small boy persevered and while we waited at the shop one of the guys asked if it would hurt to give him ten baht. I've been in Thailand long enough to know the correct answer to that sort of question.... "up to you".

The kid let out a triumphant yell and more children poured out of every alleyway and raced down the street towards him.

:D

There used to be a little brat in Tachilek that I always gave some cash to. I've seen him scale a 12ft chain link fence with his little brother on his back just to get to me. That kind of work ethic deserves to be rewarded.

[mcgriffith]

This thread is getting rather entertaining (like a Charles Dickens novel)......

[cdnvic]

This thread is getting rather entertaining (like a Charles Dickens novel)......

Funny you should say that. For lack of a real name I had nicknamed the above kid "Oliver"

[sceadugenga]

This thread is getting rather entertaining (like a Charles Dickens novel)......

Funny you should say that. For lack of a real name I had nicknamed the above kid "Oliver"

Surely "The Artful Dodger" would have been more appropriate.

I'm a great admirer of Dickens, not so much of his writing style which was a bit Victorian , but because he could write novels in weekly installments. I'd like to see one of our modern novelists try that sometimes.

Edited October 23, 2007 by sceadugenga

[visionary]

Another Conspiracy Theory. I often wonder if there isn't an International conspiracy to keep beggars on the streets of major cities.Beggars have courage,determinatioin and consistency. Some of our locals are as regular as a clock in making their rounds. All of this makes them employable. I have to be very convinced to part with a nickel to them but if they are selling a pen, a notebook or a flower I'll often go out of my way to buy one. It wouldn't take much effort to get them doing something worthwhile. Consistency at anything other than begging would lead to employment even for the seriously disabled. The fact that I don't see evidence of people making employees out of them convinces me that many of them are there by design.

[sceadugenga]

Another Conspiracy Theory. I often wonder if there isn't an International conspiracy to keep beggars on the streets of major cities.Beggars have courage,determinatioin and consistency. Some of our locals are as regular as a clock in making their rounds. All of this makes them employable. I have to be very convinced to part with a nickel to them but if they are selling a pen, a notebook or a flower I'll often go out of my way to buy one. It wouldn't take much effort to get them doing something worthwhile. Consistency at anything other than begging would lead to employment even for the seriously disabled. The fact that I don't see evidence of people making employees out of them convinces me that many of them are there by design.

In cities with a relative high degree of prosperity it's just another way of making money by people who either don't want to work or wont be part of the "system"

In countries where there is genuine poverty on a large scale it's the only means of survival for many.

[visionary]

Another Conspiracy Theory. I often wonder if there isn't an International conspiracy to keep beggars on the streets of major cities.Beggars have courage,determinatioin and consistency. Some of our locals are as regular as a clock in making their rounds. All of this makes them employable. I have to be very convinced to part with a nickel to them but if they are selling a pen, a notebook or a flower I'll often go out of my way to buy one. It wouldn't take much effort to get them doing something worthwhile. Consistency at anything other than begging would lead to employment even for the seriously disabled. The fact that I don't see evidence of people making employees out of them convinces me that many of them are there by design.

In cities with a relative high degree of prosperity it's just another way of making money by people who either don't want to work or wont be part of the "system"

In countries where there is genuine poverty on a large scale it's the only means of survival for many.

Perhaps the situation in my city is unique. I've spent a lot of my life in street life both as a participant and a rescuer. Over the last few years I've become convinced that a lot of the homeless beggars here are actors with a political agenda. I've taken a hard look at some of the people sleeping in bus shelters. The well worn blankets are too clean. The shaves are too fresh. The hair is too trim. In conversation with some of them you can tell that they are office workers with no real history of street life. I believe that some left leaning activists aren't satisfied with the number of real victims in the public eye to support their arguments so they are hitting the well traveled bus routes to give the public a hint of what is going on in the back alleys and abandoned cars.

[sceadugenga]

Well that's certainly an original theory.

[Keithangel]

As someone who has, many years ago canvassed for companies at retail outlets, Im not convinced that "Begging" can be defined as "not work" for anyone who doubts that I suggest you "shadow" a begger for a couple of hours and then Report back on how it feels.

Edited October 25, 2007 by Keithangel

[sceadugenga]

As someone who has, many years ago canvassed for companies at retail outlets, Im not convinced that "Begging" can be defined as "not work" for anyone who doubts that I suggest you "shadow" a begger for a couple of hours and then Report back on how it feels.

There are obviously degrees of begging. Some are more industrious than others, they follow the punters loudly proclaiming their huger and poverty. Others choose to recline under a tastefully applied layer of dirt with a strategically placed cup for contributions.

The difference, I suppose, between canvassing and telemarketing.

[Keithangel]

As someone who has, many years ago canvassed for companies at retail outlets, Im not convinced that "Begging" can be defined as "not work" for anyone who doubts that I suggest you "shadow" a begger for a couple of hours and then Report back on how it feels.

There are obviously degrees of begging. Some are more industrious than others, they follow the punters loudly proclaiming their huger and poverty. Others choose to recline under a tastefully applied layer of dirt with a strategically placed cup for contributions.

The difference, I suppose, between canvassing and telemarketing.

The reason there are such marketing strategies is because it works, its a numbers game, so to with begging .I also bear in mind the tens of thousands of our fellow human beings who starve to death or die each day due to lack of basic sanitation /clean water/easily treatable disease with so much waste from the "developed economies" it is surprising perhaps not to see more.

The other interesting thing I observe is the very strong feelings this kind of activity brings forth from posters, we were all , at least subconsiously taught to be afraid of "not enough" although of course if we had really experienced that at base level reality we to would be dead, it is our emotional impoverishment we need to become more aware of to not then fail to empathise with those of us living precariously in plain view

[mumbojumbo]

[Keithangel]

Great Mumbo, and fair ex"change"

[dman]

As someone who has, many years ago canvassed for companies at retail outlets, Im not convinced that "Begging" can be defined as "not work" for anyone who doubts that I suggest you "shadow" a begger for a couple of hours and then Report back on how it feels.

There are obviously degrees of begging. Some are more industrious than others, they follow the punters loudly proclaiming their huger and poverty. Others choose to recline under a tastefully applied layer of dirt with a strategically placed cup for contributions.

The difference, I suppose, between canvassing and telemarketing.

The reason there are such marketing strategies is because it works, its a numbers game, so to with begging .I also bear in mind the tens of thousands of our fellow human beings who starve to death or die each day due to lack of basic sanitation /clean water/easily treatable disease with so much waste from the "developed economies" it is surprising perhaps not to see more.

The other interesting thing I observe is the very strong feelings this kind of activity brings forth from posters, we were all , at least subconsiously taught to be afraid of "not enough" although of course if we had really experienced that at base level reality we to would be dead, it is our emotional impoverishment we need to become more aware of to not then fail to empathise with those of us living precariously in plain view

Here is a different perspective from a major city.

You wont see a single beggar on the streets of Shanghai, China. Population about 26 million. Everyone you see on the streets that may be a potential beggar in other large cities is busy sweeping and cleaning the streets. Shanghai is an amazingly clean and pedestrian/bicycle friendly place with plenty of green space for people to enjoy without being constantly hassled by touts and beggars.