Government To Mull Over Third Gender Prefixes For 30 Days

[Jai Dee]

Government to mull over third gender prefixes for 30 days

The government has asked to consider a draft law concerning the prefixes of transsexuals, or the third gender, for an additional 30 days. The government states that it must consider the impact on army reserves recruitment as proposed by the National Legislative Assembly (NLA).

During an NLA meeting concerning transgender prefixes Ms. Juree Vichitwattakorn (จุรี วิจิตรวาทการ) proposed that the ability to alter prefixes would alleviate the problem of biases against such citizens. Many NLA members rebutted on the stance of army recruitment, which would become disorganized. Mr. Wallop Tangkananurak (วัลลภ ตังคณานุรักษ์) suggested that prefixes contain a signifier of being a transsexual.

Deputy Minister of Interior Banyat Chansana (บัญญัติ จันทน์เสนะ) acting as the governments representative thus asked for 30 additional days to mull over the issue.

Source: Thai National News Bureau Public Relations Department - 25 October 2007

[Jai Dee]

NLA defers Mr/Ms bill

A bill allowing transgender people to use titles appropriate for their new sex has been put on hold after male National Legislative Assembly members spoke against it.

They said the "ambiguous identities" of post-operative transgender people could be confusing and affect common practice, such as mandatory Army conscription and ordination into the monkhood.

The assembly yesterday withdrew the bill pending government scrutiny within the next 30 days. Amphol Watthanajinda said unclear gender could be used to deceive partners in courtship or marriage, and a criminal's hard-to-identify sex could make police work and crime prevention difficult. It was counter-productive for the public, he added.

Juree Wijitwathakarn introduced the 10-article bill, which was tabled yesterday with the support of her fellow NLA members. She cited complaints from transsexuals about discrimination and social inequity and injustice. General Ood Buengbon, a former Defence Ministry permanent secretary, said men with ambiguous titles and appearance caused legal problems and headaches during annual Army conscription.

Assemblyman Wallop Tangkhananurak supports Juree's bill. However, he said it needed a provision to allow for the original sex of a citizen to be noted on identity cards. This would prevent confusion and deception.

Deputy Interior Minister Banyat Jansena said the government - which is reportedly reluctant to declare its stance - needed 30 days to scrutinise it.

Source: The Nation - 25 October 2007

[LeungKen]

I must admit to smiling when after consulting the Urban Dictionary

http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=Mull

1.Mull29 up, 9 down1. (Noun) tweed, pot, herb, nuggies, bud, skunky monkey. Use to describe somebodies toking gear.

2. (Verb) to chop up some gear to precede a massive session of getting high as ten kites.

1. Have you seen my mull tin?

2. Are you going to mull up?

3. Mull me up bro.

For 30 DAYS !!

[TAWP]

Any reason a post-op cannot legally be changed in prefix to one of the two normal...?

They really HAVE to make it a special one, out of some fear they might not spot them otherwise?

[astral]

Any reason a post-op cannot legally be changed in prefix to one of the two normal...?

They really HAVE to make it a special one, out of some fear they might not spot them otherwise?

My thoughts too.

These people should be able to choose how they are designated,

there is NO need to single them out for ridicule by creating a new designator.

One of the wonderful things about Thailand has been its tolerance.

Many years ago I observed a group of teenagers in a Mall in Korat.

One boy was obviously very effeminate, but he as accepted as part of the group,

in way that would not happen in the West.

Top marks to Thailand, I thought.

Why do government officials have to dabble in pesonal matters.

[PeaceBlondie]

I fear the third gender designation would become too much of a joke, like 'miscellaneous other' or 'undecided,' or 'changed mind.' Besides, what is this form of address? Are not all Thais called khun, ajarn, colonel, etc., regardless of their anatomy?

[ThaidleHands]

During an NLA meeting concerning transgender prefixes Ms. Juree Vichitwattakorn (???? ????????????) proposed...

Interesting to see this in a discussion of gender prefixes as only "Miss" or "Mrs." have legal standing under Thai law, if memory serves.

I fear the third gender designation would become too much of a joke, like 'miscellaneous other' or 'undecided,' or 'changed mind.' Besides, what is this form of address? Are not all Thais called khun, ajarn, colonel, etc., regardless of their anatomy?

Yes, but not without exception. Many of the aristocratic titles such as "khunying" are gender-specific.

Even raising the topic in official circles only invites yet another Siamuddle. Have they even considered that a gender prefix or at least a 3rd sex designation would also have to applied to Thai passports and thus be incompatible with the rest of the world which recognizes only male or female? Even skipping the passport question, what will it do to simple border transits by Thai citizens where only a Thai ID card is required? Hopefully it will just die a quiet death.

[Tywais]

I fear the third gender designation would become too much of a joke, like 'miscellaneous other' or 'undecided,' or 'changed mind.' Besides, what is this form of address? Are not all Thais called khun, ajarn, colonel, etc., regardless of their anatomy?

Actually there are prefixes similar to western Mr., Miss., Mrs. - Nai Somchai (Mr. Somchai), Nawng Somchai (Mrs. Somchai) and Nawng Saow Somchai (Miss. Somchai). Khun applies to both/all genders.

[lazeeboy]

I fear the third gender designation would become too much of a joke, like 'miscellaneous other' or 'undecided,' or 'changed mind.' Besides, what is this form of address? Are not all Thais called khun, ajarn, colonel, etc., regardless of their anatomy?

Actually there are prefixes similar to western Mr., Miss., Mrs. - Nai Somchai (Mr. Somchai), Nawng Somchai (Mrs. Somchai) and Nawng Saow Somchai (Miss. Somchai). Khun applies to both/all genders.

if they have had gender reasignment then they deserve to have the miss on there id and passports ,going to a foreign land is very embarrasing for them when a non thai call over to his mates so that all can ogle the man looking like a women and laughing at them .

[Rykbanlor]

I fear the third gender designation would become too much of a joke, like 'miscellaneous other' or 'undecided,' or 'changed mind.' Besides, what is this form of address? Are not all Thais called khun, ajarn, colonel, etc., regardless of their anatomy?

Actually there are prefixes similar to western Mr., Miss., Mrs. - Nai Somchai (Mr. Somchai), Nawng Somchai (Mrs. Somchai) and Nawng Saow Somchai (Miss. Somchai). Khun applies to both/all genders.

Actually a better transliteration would be Nang and Nang Saow for Mrs and Miss: นาง / นางสาว

[TopDogger]

Actually a better transliteration would be Nang and Nang Saow for Mrs and Miss: นาง / นางสาว

err, no.. They sound nothing like the Thai.

[Richard W]

Actually a better transliteration would be Nang and Nang Saow for Mrs and Miss: นาง / นางสาว

err, no.. They sound nothing like the Thai.

Well don't pronounce them the vowel of 'cat'. That's written 'ae'.

[oevna]

Any reason a post-op cannot legally be changed in prefix to one of the two normal...?

They really HAVE to make it a special one, out of some fear they might not spot them otherwise?

My interpritation (which could be incorrect) is that this law is to allow transgenered people to choose which pronoun to use (male or female), not to create a new pronoun for them.

[Johpa]

Any reason a post-op cannot legally be changed in prefix to one of the two normal...?

They really HAVE to make it a special one, out of some fear they might not spot them otherwise?

T'is a conundrum......pre-fix.....post-op........prefix change....little wonder it leads to confusion.

[TAWP]

Any reason a post-op cannot legally be changed in prefix to one of the two normal...?

They really HAVE to make it a special one, out of some fear they might not spot them otherwise?

My interpritation (which could be incorrect) is that this law is to allow transgenered people to choose which pronoun to use (male or female), not to create a new pronoun for them.

In part yes, with exception of 'Mr. Wallop Tangkananurak (วัลลภ ตังคณานุรักษ์) suggested that prefixes contain a signifier of being a transsexual.' and the fact that is has now been dropped since some males with small equipment felt threatened in some odd way.

[YangYaiEric]

Any reason a post-op cannot legally be changed in prefix to one of the two normal...?

They really HAVE to make it a special one, out of some fear they might not spot them otherwise?

My thoughts too.

These people should be able to choose how they are designated,

there is NO need to single them out for ridicule by creating a new designator.

One of the wonderful things about Thailand has been its tolerance.

Many years ago I observed a group of teenagers in a Mall in Korat.

One boy was obviously very effeminate, but he as accepted as part of the group,

in way that would not happen in the West.

Top marks to Thailand, I thought.

Why do government officials have to dabble in pesonal matters.

As a follow-up to your point, sir/madam/whatever, have you ever pondered why there is such a disproportionately large number of TransSexuals in Thailand ?

[TAWP]

More seen doesn't mean more existing.

It's like the 'homosexuals' not existing in Iran, to quote their president.