If Thai People Could Travel Freely

[midas]

Most of us know that it seems enormously difficult for the average Thai to get visa's to

countries like USA, Australia, Europe etc -even just tourist visas.

But say it was easier for the average Thai to obtain a visa and say they faced far less travel restrictions

generally, I often wonder how many would be totally content to leave Thailand on a permanent

basis? For those of us who live here, we appreciate some of the basic things that

Thai's enjoy so much as part of the culture - food, family values, religious values etc.

If they were given the choice to move to a

Western country on a permanent basis, how much of a loss to them would be to live in a

what would be a somewhat sterile environment compared to Thailand?

Our former " dear leader " seems to get by ok in the UK although I realize

maybe he doesn't have much choice...

[astral]

It is not only visa restrictons that prevent Thais from travelling.

Last year my wife and son came to visit me in Lebanon.

They had copies of their visa for Lebanon, but they still got a very

hard time from the Thai Immigration officer at the airport.

The same happened again this year when they came down to Penang.

On a general level, it is not only Thais who find it hard to adapt to another country, culture and climate.

How many TV member hanker for "comforts from home"?

[Jingthing]

I think, many, many, many. Lots of losos seeking basic survival and lots of hisos craving snow for some twisted reason.

Edited October 26, 2007 by Jingthing

[think_too_mut]

But say it was easier for the average Thai to obtain a visa and say they faced far less travel restrictions

generally, I often wonder how many would be totally content to leave Thailand on a permanent

basis?

It would just open floodgates for women traficking.

I don't think many Thais mid-class Thais would want to leave permanently.

Why would they? Do they not realize we call the place "paradise" for a reason?

The tide is quite opposite: how many farangs have settled to Thailand and how many would if it were easier?

[Jingthing]

Most Thais are very poor. Of course they would leave if given the opportunity to earn more money for their families.

I love Thailand but anyone who has lived here who thinks Thailand is a "paradise" has better meds than I do.

Edited October 26, 2007 by Jingthing

[tuky]

I think, many, many, many. Lots of losos seeking basic survival and lots of hisos craving snow for some twisted reason.

I am not so sure, granted I only know a very very small cross section but those that I know, and have spoken to about this are only staying in another country because their husband/wife is, from what I see most Thais would prefer to stay in Thailand above anywhere else.

Perhaps the section of Thai society that would like to live elsewhere would be the rich, the poorer just want to stay home and improve their and teir families lot in life.

[Jingthing]

There are already many leaving on contract jobs all over the world. Nothing like the Filipino numbers, but it is a huge industry here. I would agree poor Thais would prefer to stay here if they could take care of their families, but so many can't.

[think_too_mut]

Most Thais are very poor. Of course they would leave if given the opportunity to earn more money for their families.

In addition to trafickers luring poor women, other sharks would lure construction workers.

Both kinds would have no language skills or education to navigate their own way even if taken through the open door into any country.

Altogether, it will just make easier to dodgy characters to earn their money/commission.

From the ranks not forced by economic reasons, some may take an opportunity to advance their careers or earn better money but far fewer than one maight think. Thais are known as worst possible migrants, never integrating into new country's society.

I was surprised to lear there were 15,000 Thais in Sydney only. I have never ever came accross a single one outside of their restaurants.

[astral]

There are already many leaving on contract jobs all over the world. Nothing like the Filipino numbers, but it is a huge industry here. I would agree poor Thais would prefer to stay here if they could take care of their families, but so many can't.

But that is a different scenario.

Those contract workers do not go overseas because they want to,

they go out of economic necessity to earn money to support

their families, or to earn enough to get married.

[samran]

An interesting case study would be what happened when NZ briefly let Thai's visit there visa free.

Apart from Singapore, HK and Korea, I beleive it was the only 'developed' country which allowed Thai's such easy access. Anyway, visa free status was pulled after a little while. I don't know what the exact reasons were, and it would be interesting to know.

[naka]

Even if Thai young people had less problems with visa's, I very much doubt they would travel more

(Teerack's aside).

Young Thai people are simply not as adventurous, nor are they as worldly (read educated)

as their western counterparts.

Anyone wants to argue ... Tell me where all the Thai backpackers go in London, NY, Sydney et al ?

Naka.

[cdnvic]

An interesting case study would be what happened when NZ briefly let Thai's visit there visa free.

Apart from Singapore, HK and Korea, I beleive it was the only 'developed' country which allowed Thai's such easy access. Anyway, visa free status was pulled after a little while. I don't know what the exact reasons were, and it would be interesting to know.

Massive amounts of overstayers.

[think_too_mut]

An interesting case study would be what happened when NZ briefly let Thai's visit there visa free.

Apart from Singapore, HK and Korea, I beleive it was the only 'developed' country which allowed Thai's such easy access. Anyway, visa free status was pulled after a little while. I don't know what the exact reasons were, and it would be interesting to know.

I read many stories from there back in 2001 and 2002.

Auckland and Wellington were flooded with Thai hookers. Someone said 80% of all red light districts ladies were Thai.

There were stories of Soi Cowboy/Nana women piggy backing on anyone from NZ to have food and shelter until they sort out the ropes and then run away.

There were posters on other boards who lamented how their newly brought gf did a runner only weeks or even days after arriving to NZ.

But those were the jaded ones who had done no-visa 2 weeks stunts in Singapore and Hong Kong before.

There were no reports of engineers, scientists, nurses or anyone from honest walks of life going to NZ.

[think_too_mut]

Even if Thai young people had less problems with visa's, I very much doubt they would travel more

(Teerack's aside).

Young Thai people are simply not as adventurous, nor are they as worldly (read educated)

as their western counterparts.

Anyone wants to argue ... Tell me where all the Thai backpackers go in London, NY, Sydney et al ?

Naka.

Australia included Thailand in their Working Holiday Visa programme 3-4 years ago, they can come as youngsters from UK, Ireland, US and few other countries can. I doubt there were many takers from Oz side but how many from Thai side ventured to Oz to work as cherry pickers, receptionists or call centre staff?

Some may have but I still have to hear of one Thai backpacker in Sydney.

[samran]

Even if Thai young people had less problems with visa's, I very much doubt they would travel more

(Teerack's aside).

Young Thai people are simply not as adventurous, nor are they as worldly (read educated)

as their western counterparts.

Anyone wants to argue ... Tell me where all the Thai backpackers go in London, NY, Sydney et al ?

Naka.

Australia included Thailand in their Working Holiday Visa programme 3-4 years ago, they can come as youngsters from UK, Ireland, US and few other countries can. I doubt there were many takers from Oz side but how many from Thai side ventured to Oz to work as cherry pickers, receptionists or call centre staff?

Some may have but I still have to hear of one Thai backpacker in Sydney.

to be fair, backpacking is a cultural thing, and is mainly done by the children of middle class to affluent families in the west. Hence the Australian Tourism Commission targetting them. For Thailand to reach that point is going to require a bit more evenly spread economic wealth, and a decline in the Thai tendency to go on holiday with 50 of their best friends.

As well, the WHV available to thai's is much more restrictive, requiring a uni degree and a high IELTS English exam result, and are limited to 100 per year.

Having said that, I know a couple of uni students who have considered it (middle class girls who wanted to improve their english - one on her way to be a doctor now), but they decided to go and be nannies in the US and Canada. The nanny programme is a lot easier to get into, doesn't require English tests, and to a large extent, their hands are held by the company organising the trip.

[midas]

An interesting case study would be what happened when NZ briefly let Thai's visit there visa free.

Apart from Singapore, HK and Korea, I beleive it was the only 'developed' country which allowed Thai's such easy access. Anyway, visa free status was pulled after a little while. I don't know what the exact reasons were, and it would be interesting to know.

Massive amounts of overstayers.

cdnvic are there many Thai's in Canada and do they integrate well into society there ?

Canada seems to be a more truly cosmopolitan country than Australia which might make it

easier or even essential for them to do so?

[Jockstar]

I was surprised to lear there were 15,000 Thais in Sydney only. I have never ever came accross a single one outside of their restaurants

I'm not. There are loads of Thais here. I dont goto the Thai restaurants here as the wife and I are always dissapointed with the food. I actuallly played a Thai indoor 5 a side football team the other week. You should have seen one guys face

 when i up took him out and then apologised in Thai. .  Also my friend is married to a Thai guy and he' s a good bloke. It also depends on age and social circles i guess. My wifes

 friend is also over here studying. Thats a just a few that i know personally.

[pistolpete]

I actually happen to know a few Thais that live in the states illegally. Most of them work in the Thai Restaurants. I guessed if the visa waiver is implemented many more Thai will definitely overstay here. I don't know if that is a good or a bad thing. Thai restaurant is often half the price compare to the american, and Thai foods is totally awesome.. Let's them come.

[naka]

Even if Thai young people had less problems with visa's, I very much doubt they would travel more

(Teerack's aside).

Young Thai people are simply not as adventurous, nor are they as worldly (read educated)

as their western counterparts.

Anyone wants to argue ... Tell me where all the Thai backpackers go in London, NY, Sydney et al ?

Naka.

Australia included Thailand in their Working Holiday Visa programme 3-4 years ago, they can come as youngsters from UK, Ireland, US and few other countries can. I doubt there were many takers from Oz side but how many from Thai side ventured to Oz to work as cherry pickers, receptionists or call centre staff?

Some may have but I still have to hear of one Thai backpacker in Sydney.

to be fair, backpacking is a cultural thing, and is mainly done by the children of middle class to affluent families in the west. Hence the Australian Tourism Commission targetting them. For Thailand to reach that point is going to require a bit more evenly spread economic wealth, and a decline in the Thai tendency to go on holiday with 50 of their best friends.

As well, the WHV available to thai's is much more restrictive, requiring a uni degree and a high IELTS English exam result, and are limited to 100 per year.

Having said that, I know a couple of uni students who have considered it (middle class girls who wanted to improve their english - one on her way to be a doctor now), but they decided to go and be nannies in the US and Canada. The nanny programme is a lot easier to get into, doesn't require English tests, and to a large extent, their hands are held by the company organising the trip.

Samran.

A cultural thing it may be ! but a bit of adventureism does not go astray.

My mate and I left home in the early seventies (both from working class (poor) families) and at twenty one years old, with fifty quid

apiece in our pockets. After walking down through Africa, then Aus, Indon etc. Etc. We dropped back in to see our mum's

for a cuppa ... five years later. Oh ! and we worked to pay for our travels ... all sorts of unusual jobs in outlandish places,

even operated a grader on a roadworks job in Tanzania.

Naka.

Edited October 26, 2007 by naka

[midas]

There were no reports of engineers, scientists, nurses or anyone from honest walks of life going to NZ.

but what about " intermediate " career groups - for example restaurant workers, hotel workers,

considering the pittance they earn in Thailand those with a reasonable amount of English would

be able to earn a fortune in NZ. Maybe it just wasn't well-publicised ?

I found it interesting that they actually had a full debate in the Australian parliament regarding

giving easier visas to certain Thai workers which covered two main classifications :- i.e

chefs and Thai Massage specialists In the section of Hansard which included

the full debate they talked about some form of certificate but I'm not sure if many of

the Thai Massage workers have a paper qualification which would be meaningful to

the Australian authorities ? But at least it signifies the stadium recognises Thai Massage

as being a very unique skill !

[Jingthing]

Thais don't have to give up Thai culture when they leave Thailand if they move to Los Angeles. Just like farangs in Pattaya, so very cosmopolitan.

[cdnvic]

cdnvic are there many Thai's in Canada and do they integrate well into society there ?

Canada seems to be a more truly cosmopolitan country than Australia which might make it

easier or even essential for them to do so?

For quite awhile there were very few but their numbers are growing quite quickly now. The chronic labour shortage makes it easier for them to get work visas which are often converted to permanent residence visas after a while. There is a sizable Asian population (nearly four million) and has been going back over a hundred years so their presence is easily accepted. I can recall kiwis being worried about the influx of immigrants from Asia when there was only about 15,000 of them in Auckland. The country just wasn't used to them yet. We got past that stage a long time ago, and so will places like Australia and New Zealand eventually.

Edited October 26, 2007 by cdnvic

[midas]

Thais don't have to give up Thai culture when they leave Thailand if they move to Los Angeles. Just like farangs in Pattaya, so very cosmopolitan.

God forbid !!

[Jingthing]

God forbid !!

Clearly we have different Gods.

[samran]

Samran.

A cultural thing it may be ! but a bit of adventureism does not go astray.

My mate and I left home in the early seventies (both from working class (poor) families) and at twenty one years old, with fifty quid

apiece in our pockets. After walking down through Africa, then Aus, Indon etc. Etc. We dropped back in to see our mum's

for a cuppa ... five years later. Oh ! and we worked to pay for our travels ... all sorts of unusual jobs in outlandish places,

even operated a grader on a roadworks job in Tanzania.

Naka.

I think we both agree.

The problem is, your Thai equivalent is never going to be able to get a visa to even get out of Thailand to begin with, let alone the money for a one way airfare and will (in himself or herself) fear that without 'sa-peak englit' will not be worth while going anyway

And for the child of a middle class Thai, I doubt too many of their parents are going to take too well to their brood heading off for extended adventures. Family comes first.

But, I do think things will progressively change.

As for the cultural aspect, I've noted that Americans (not knocking them here BTW) don't really do the extended travel thing. I've been told more than once that a year off here and there is career suicide and looks extremely bad on a resume there to your yankee brothers. Whereas in Aus/NZ/UK people don't really care, and many see a year or two out as a positive thing.

[GuestHouse]

In my last two assignments I have worked overseas with Thais who had no difficulty with visas (professional staff easily meeting the visa requirements). The locations where London and Rome (so by no means the 'sterile environment' to which the OP refers - far from it in fact).

I compare these people with other similarly educated expats who I work with, both groups enjoying the same benefits and privileges (enjoying far superior living conditions and incomes than the general local population where they are assigned).

On the basis of my own experience I agree with 'Think to Mut' the Thai expats are incredibly resistant to integrating, those that do take to life overseas and really do get involved, those that do not encapsulate themselves in a mini Thai world, eating only Thai food, socializing only with other Thais and generally pining to return home.

I've seen other expats do this of course (I'm working with a fine example right now), but I notice people being a lot less tolerant of a British Expat who refuses to try to integrate than they do with a Thai.

I blame this on the Thai education system and the way that it creates 'inward' looking Thais.

I have an amusing example of this.

I was on a business trip in Singapore with a senior member of our Thai client's staff - this guy was extremely well educated, but not very well traveled.

I tried all week to get him to try out some of the non Thai restaurants, but no - Lunch and Dinner he was going to eat Thai.

On the very last night the company we where visiting had arranged a night out at 'Jumbo' on the East Coast Parkway.

So now he can't eat Thai.

Faced with a huge Chili Crab he turned to me and said 'These are from Thailand, we sell all the largest crabs overseas to make the most money' (The Crab was from Alaska).

Finishing his meal he then announces 'I think this recipe comes from Thailand'.

I really don't think that Thais get that the rest of the world has a great deal to offer.

There loss.

[cdnvic]

How well they integrate likely has a great deal to do with whether they have a spouse from that country. Those that do are already used to adopting some of the culture.

[lazeeboy]

In my last two assignments I have worked overseas with Thais who had no difficulty with visas (professional staff easily meeting the visa requirements). The locations where London and Rome (so by no means the 'sterile environment' to which the OP refers - far from it in fact).

I compare these people with other similarly educated expats who I work with, both groups enjoying the same benefits and privileges (enjoying far superior living conditions and incomes than the general local population where they are assigned).

On the basis of my own experience I agree with 'Think to Mut' the Thai expats are incredibly resistant to integrating, those that do take to life overseas and really do get involved, those that do not encapsulate themselves in a mini Thai world, eating only Thai food, socializing only with other Thais and generally pining to return home.

I've seen other expats do this of course (I'm working with a fine example right now), but I notice people being a lot less tolerant of a British Expat who refuses to try to integrate than they do with a Thai.

I blame this on the Thai education system and the way that it creates 'inward' looking Thais.

I have an amusing example of this.

I was on a business trip in Singapore with a senior member of our Thai client's staff - this guy was extremely well educated, but not very well traveled.

I tried all week to get him to try out some of the non Thai restaurants, but no - Lunch and Dinner he was going to eat Thai.

On the very last night the company we where visiting had arranged a night out at 'Jumbo' on the East Coast Parkway.

So now he can't eat Thai.

Faced with a huge Chili Crab he turned to me and said 'These are from Thailand, we sell all the largest crabs overseas to make the most money' (The Crab was from Alaska).

Finishing his meal he then announces 'I think this recipe comes from Thailand'.

I really don't think that Thais get that the rest of the world has a great deal to offer.

There loss.

thais dont like change ,its bred into them as a kid ,thai is best .