Can't Do The Language, Eat The Food, Or Work Legally, So....

[PeaceBlondie]

Wow, 32 replies in less than 11 hours; I'm impressed at the responses. Thanks, y'all.

Taking a vacation of several months in a target country is not that easy, but thanks for that advice. I can go back to Mexico, and live at Puerto Veracruz, which is maybe 8 hours by bus to where my twins live with their families. I speak passable Spanish and can become fluent more than I was before. Actually, this week I took a vacation to Hua Hin which helped me realize I don't belong in Thailand. Two hour taxi ride for 2000 baht, not one word spoken to the driver. In Mexico, we'd have chattered through the whole trip.

Thai language and alphabet are just too daunting. I think I'm tone deaf, the brain cells don't seem to want to learn the lingo, it appears the classes do not teach well, etc. I feel foolish still not being able to ask how much something costs, where is it, what is your name, how would you contrast Buddhist pacifism with Anabaptist nonresistance, was the fake democracy of Thaksin worse than the junta, etc. You can discuss things like that in Spanish and have a meaningful conversation.

Costa Rica is a possibility. I lived off and on in Nicaragua, 1998-2000, and doubt that it's on the way up. I need to be near a first-class teaching hospital, and even if Nicaragua has one, it's in stinky Managua; no thanks. Latin America can be cheaper than Thailand.

[ozzydom]

PB,I can relate to your dilemma , I also dont care for Thai food,nor can I learn the language, I get the impression from recent posts of yours I have read that as with me ,the uncertainty of long term tenure is the main concern.

I dont have any family in my home country so returning there is not an option,basically all I want in my declining years is is a hassle free existance and that is not forthcoming here with the continual visa hassles and Worrying whether I can jump through the next set of hoops Immigration erects..

I now keep a Cambodia business visa valid and since doing that have felt less vulnerable,if the poo hits the fan here,I am over the border quicktime.

[Suszzy]

QUOTE (PeaceBlondie @ 2007-10-28 00:17:37) Can anybody give me a convincing reason to stay, or shall I take the advice that if I don't like it, I can just leave?

Obviously you're not happy right now!

how about take a short break somewhere out of los.

it will do you good and if you still fell the same after that..

well..perhaps it's time to move on.(but i do hope you decide to stay..)

i believe that things can only get better!!

[tijnebijn]

Hey PB ,

Reading your posts for a while , and now you asking for what we others think

of your situations and feelings , it is no doubt for me you miss some

intimacy , I mean some depth , some interests and knowledge that

interest you which you can share with people who are worthwhile .

At first in a new country everything is interesting , it gives a boost , after

a while its loosing its flavour .

With you telling you have twins in another part of the world , while still

being in another environment ,like Thailand which you enjoy , there is

no doubt for me that you have a desire for that . Another thing is to live the life

you want is the longevity of your dollar which can keep the life alive

while doing so.

Personally if my GF and children were not here ,

and if I would be in your situation , and had the doubts you have right now ,

it would be an rather easy choice though , the love and thought of the children nearby

should make that choice easy .

Anyway that situation you came across many times , considering your past travellings and

long term stays in other countries , you know what it takes , done that and

should make a timetable and just go for your new goal and live the life like

you always did , basta !

[tgeezer]

Should I bother to stay in Thailand if it's obvious that I will never speak or read Thai, never hold an in-depth conversation with many Thais? Cannot eat the food, although I like the climate and the people? And after four years, it seems unlikely or impossible that I will work legally?

In other words, without having compelling reasons to stay here (such as being destitute, having wife or children here who can't leave, performing work that I cannot do anywhere else, etc.),

I feel for you. I hope that I don't sound like a 'smart-ass' but can ask youself what you want today. food, money,security, love, all the stuff, and where defficient, could you make that up elsewhere? If your not happy then you must change something, can you stay, but change your lifestyle, because although you think you like your lifestyle it is probaly not in balance. The conversation goes like this, Q. Fewer women? A. Yes, but apart from that, Q. Less booze? A.Yes but apart from that,Q. More exercise?...... and so on. Life is about variety and when you have all the alternatives dismissed, you have to go back and have another look. If you can't resolve it at this level then you have to add.Q.leave? A ? How many of the original questions are now answered? Sometimes we need an accident or bad diognosis at the hospital to put life into perspective but I wouldn't wish that on anyone. If you are American you will know the prayer; Lord, help me to change the things I cannot bear...etc This answers all, especially the question which I suspect is the big one, can I get a enough money and a visa to continue as I am without all the hassle?

[lazeeboy]

Should I bother to stay in Thailand if it's obvious that I will never speak or read Thai, never hold an in-depth conversation with many Thais? Cannot eat the food, although I like the climate and the people? And after four years, it seems unlikely or impossible that I will work legally?

In other words, without having compelling reasons to stay here (such as being destitute, having wife or children here who can't leave, performing work that I cannot do anywhere else, etc.), why stay here, especially if there are other countries just as warm, more welcoming to strangers, closer to home, where I can work and hold conversations and eat most of their food?

Am I the only one who meets the above criteria, or are others realizing they could be happier outside of Thailand? I haven't even mentioned the baht/US$ exchange ratio, or loved ones living an average of 10 time zones from me, or the possibility that some day the retirement visa criteria will be revised so that I don't qualify when I'm 69 or 77 years old and infirm.

Can anybody give me a convincing reason to stay, or shall I take the advice that if I don't like it, I can just leave?

Thanks in advance for your responses, even those I don't want to read.

just having a bad day peace,most of us are in the same boat mate ,have a holiday home soon for a couple of weeks ,that works for me ,see family and freinds and you'll feel 100 times better ,if not then its time to leave ,good luck in whatever you decide..

[lannarebirth]

PeaceBlondie,

I think what you're feeling may stem from living too cloistered a life here. While I love the food, I too struggled initially with the language, and accepted that it was just "impossible". I've leaerned it is not impossible and I continue to make satisfactory improvement.

I think I hear you wishing that you could be engaged more (teaching) and that door seems closed to you. I think if you don't need the funds, other avenues, like teaching informally at wats, orphanages, small villages might be something to explore. It will give you contact with the locals who can be quite engaging if you open yourself up to engaging them.

Whatever you do, I wish you the very best. I have lived in both Mexico and Costa Rica, and while the language is easier, the culture is changing in some not too preety ways. I won't ever be returning to either place.

[rgs2001uk]

pb

i have always enjoyed reading your posts and your mischievous sense of humour.

instead of giving a list of reasons why you cant stay, why not make up a list giving the reasons why you stay, weigh them up and the choice becomes a little clearer.

you only have one life, dont waste it being unhappy, only you can make the choice, yes others may have some influence on your choice, but its your life.

you are lucky to be in a position where unlike some you are not trapped here, many may desire to stay here, many have put all their eggs in one basket and cant leave.

i wonder how many others are thinking along the same lines, every changing regulations, the financial screw being tightened etc etc

another question to ask youself is it the location thats making you unhappy, or personal circumstances, if changing your partner doesnt help then its being in the country, the country aint going to change, all you can do is change location if you think that will make you happy.

best of luck

[jonniebkk]

I think with all the changes in LOS over the past few years many people are seriously considering just what you say...is it time to move on or back home. It' snot just the cost of living, the constant changes in residency rules, or the attitudes of the locals but a general sense of "will I ever be at home here" kind of feeling. I know for me personally, cost of living issues and language, or food are not a problem...however, never feeling like you have anything invested in the country in an emotional sense and just floating along on the surface of things make me feel sorta useless sometimes. The fact that to even volunteer for some charity work with kids or disabled people requires various paperwork so you don't run afoul of some immigration raid just seems to be a symptom of the farangs predicament in LOS.

In addition, being unable to have any real genuine friends among the locals (except for casual ones) because of linguistic, financial, or cultural barriers makes life uninteresting to say the least. In almost 10 years of living in LOS, I don't have any what the Roo's would call "mates" in Thailand. I think in some of the other countries in the area like Malaysia or the Phils it would be easier if just for the greater English language ability alone. I think one possible choice for some people may in fact be Malaysia. The cost of living is a little more but not by much and you do get much better development in much of the country. The people are generally friendly like Thais and for retired folks, they have a government sponsored scheme that is quite comprehensive. The one thing that holds me back is being an Islamic state, finding pork meat/products can be will nigh impossible and that's my favorite meat. If it were not for that, I might be down there in a heartbeat.

Maybe just a change of scerny is all you need. On the other hand, I was too recently back in the USA for a few weeks like another poster said, and things are not bad there either. Everyone seemed happy, well-fed (very well if their waist sizes were anything to go by), and driving late model expensive cars...so things can't be too bad. Also, just being "home" and having the psychological wellbeing of not feeling like the "other" was nice for a change.

[PeaceBlondie]

So many people have advised going out of the country on holiday, but I kind of did that in May. Five days after sufferring a stroke, I was on the plane to Russia, where I couldn't speak the language, read the alphabet, or drink the booze. Then to Ireland for a pleasant ten days. I have three sisters, six children, ten grandchildren, and I escorted the first four grandkids home from the hospital. I'd like to be in San Antonio to escort my first great grandchild. I'd like to comfort my sister if her husband dies soon, or be there when my sisters get a terminal illness.

I enjoy teaching English and private tutoring, which I can do fairly easily (legally) in Mexico. In other words, I have no compelling ties to this country. I have no Mercedes Benz, just friends, including some pretty boys that I call friends, who dance in the courtyard with me, sweet summer sweat in the cold November rain. I'll miss all of you, but seriously doubt that I'll be lonely, and I'm not quite ready to get out of life in the fast line. .....Thanks to Don Henley and Axl Rose.

[Aries74]

Wow, 32 replies in less than 11 hours; I'm impressed at the responses. Thanks, y'all.

Taking a vacation of several months in a target country is not that easy, but thanks for that advice. I can go back to Mexico, and live at Puerto Veracruz, which is maybe 8 hours by bus to where my twins live with their families. I speak passable Spanish and can become fluent more than I was before. Actually, this week I took a vacation to Hua Hin which helped me realize I don't belong in Thailand. Two hour taxi ride for 2000 baht, not one word spoken to the driver. In Mexico, we'd have chattered through the whole trip.

Thai language and alphabet are just too daunting. I think I'm tone deaf, the brain cells don't seem to want to learn the lingo, it appears the classes do not teach well, etc. I feel foolish still not being able to ask how much something costs, where is it, what is your name, how would you contrast Buddhist pacifism with Anabaptist nonresistance, was the fake democracy of Thaksin worse than the junta, etc. You can discuss things like that in Spanish and have a meaningful conversation.

Costa Rica is a possibility. I lived off and on in Nicaragua, 1998-2000, and doubt that it's on the way up. I need to be near a first-class teaching hospital, and even if Nicaragua has one, it's in stinky Managua; no thanks. Latin America can be cheaper than Thailand.

I really feel sorry for you, and I understand you situation, not being able to speak Thai. May be is the communication that get you frustrated. Communication is very important, and when you are not able to communicate you can feel lonely, out of place, and isolated. I know how that feel, English is not my first language and people use to make fun of me when I speak. Most of the time I don't even feel like going out with anybody. I use to get really mad at them. My English is not perfect, you could probably tell by my writing skill. The other day I got a comment is your English your second or third language because of my spelling and grammar. I used to care, but nowaday not so much. At lease they can understand, great.

fi yuo cna raed tihs, yuo cna raed ym egnlsih.

I had a friend from Vietnam we worked together for about five years very nice guy, yesterday was his last day, becasue he got layoff. One of the reason they let him go is because he doesn't not speak or read English very well. It's not easy for everyone to learn other languages, he is thinking of going back to Vietnam next year.

Don't let Thai language stop you from having fun. Just think of it, it's the taxi driver that didn't speak English, not one word spoken to you.

PB ,What ever you decided to do I wish you good luck.

[Ijustwannateach]

There is some evidence now that there may be genetic influences on whether or not people are able to learn tonal languages with facility, so people who have trouble with Thai, Lao, Chinese, Burmese, etc. don't have to beat themselves up about it quite as much. I've met a number of very linguistically talented folks (who speak several European languages) who have been stumped by Thai.

PB, you know my feelings already- of course I hope you won't leave on any long-term basis- but ya gotta do what ya gotta do- try it out and see. Just remember there will be frustrations and negatives there as well, and another few years of learning curve before you can compare the two places fairly. Stick around here and let us know if the grass is greener.

"Steven"

[blizzard]

i still think if u not a party person los is not such a great place. it doesnt have mut for non thai speeking person with no family.

[Neeranam]

PB, I wish you all the best.

It sounds like your adventure is over. You can't live like a 20 year old all your life. Your responsibilty is with your kids and grandkids. Good luck

[drenoi]

No offence man but 4 years and you can't say 'Tao Rai'?? I've seen guys like that who have lived here for 5+ years and they strugle on a daily basis to get by, not financially but oher ways.

What you have said about the benefits of speaking a little Spanish in Latin countries applies to Thailand also.

If you had learnt to speak some Thai I doubt you would be having these feelings now.

The benefits on learning Thai (or at least making an effort) are limitless:

Don't pay falang prices, Girls will flock to you, You can have a joke with almost everyone you meet, You can have a beer with almost everyone you meet, less problems with miscommunication, alot more respect.

Did I mention the fact that girls will flock to you?

I get bored of the food now and then and various other things about Thailand but it's like you said with the Taxi, if you can speak Thai you can get the low down on Taksin's crimes and what not else. It really makes life a whole lot happier & easier here.

It's never to late to learn, your only barrier (IMHO) is ones own attitude, ie. you have got to want to learn. Get some tuition! Anyway if you do go to Nicaragua or Costa Rica be kind enough to post a report for us all, and good luck!

[qualtrough]

The benefits on learning Thai (or at least making an effort) are limitless:

Don't pay falang prices, Girls will flock to you, You can have a joke with almost everyone you meet, You can have a beer with almost everyone you meet, less problems with miscommunication, alot more respect.

Did I mention the fact that girls will flock to you?

Yes, you mentioned it twice. PeaceBlondie, I don't think it is my place to educate him, but perhaps you might want to...

Edited October 28, 2007 by qualtrough

[gregybn]

Costa Rica is a possibility. I lived off and on in Nicaragua, 1998-2000, and doubt that it's on the way up. I need to be near a first-class teaching hospital, and even if Nicaragua has one, it's in stinky Managua; no thanks. Latin America can be cheaper than Thailand.

I've had some of the same concerns as you PB...

(except, unlike you... I LOVE the food here)

But - I've had enuff...

I'm outta here in 4 days - Oct. 31

Destination - Ecuador - just happens to be the farthest country away from Thailand on the face of the earth...

About 19,000 km... whether you go N,S,E,W.

Me and the missus gave Thailand a good try... but now we have come to realize our future is NOT here - at least for some of the reasons you mention.

Everything is impermanent (... said Buddha)

Recognize that change is the ONLY thing you will ever be sure of in life.

Go for it PB...

Latin America is calling you back.

[ThaidleHands]

In other words, I have no compelling ties to this country.

This one sentence speaks volumes.

If you're just existing here rather than truly "living", it might be time to move on and follow your bliss.

Wanderlust is not a sin.

[girlx]

why not take a trip back to your home, or your potential home, so you can weigh your feelings for that place against how you feel about thailand?

lately i have been missing home quite a bit too, though i have no ties left there at all except some things in storage.

now i am back here (in NY) on a short trip, and loving it! wondering why i chose to move into the middle of nowhere in thailand, where i miss out on intellectual stimulation, art, music, varied food, etc. but also, i forgot just how expensive everything is, and how the weather sucks. i am sure if i were to stay longer i would remember all the reasons i left. still, considering doing 9 months in thailand and spending the 3 months of rainy season in NY from now on... see how that goes, then i will know for sure which one i would really like to live in.

[blizzard]

i dont tink peece is here for the gurls.........lol.

thats y he wants to leeve.

[distortedlink]

Should I bother to stay in Thailand if it's obvious that I will never speak or read Thai, never hold an in-depth conversation with many Thais? Cannot eat the food, although I like the climate and the people? And after four years, it seems unlikely or impossible that I will work legally?

In other words, without having compelling reasons to stay here (such as being destitute, having wife or children here who can't leave, performing work that I cannot do anywhere else, etc.), why stay here, especially if there are other countries just as warm, more welcoming to strangers, closer to home, where I can work and hold conversations and eat most of their food?

Am I the only one who meets the above criteria, or are others realizing they could be happier outside of Thailand? I haven't even mentioned the baht/US$ exchange ratio, or loved ones living an average of 10 time zones from me, or the possibility that some day the retirement visa criteria will be revised so that I don't qualify when I'm 69 or 77 years old and infirm.

Can anybody give me a convincing reason to stay, or shall I take the advice that if I don't like it, I can just leave?

Thanks in advance for your responses, even those I don't want to read.

I know how you feel. Every so often I ask myself for various reasons, why do I want to stay in Thailand? Why am I here in the first place?

I am sure these questions meet many other Farangs once in a while.

I am financially secure, no need to work and don't want to, still youngish and not fussy about my food, although I do miss a good English pint.

Like you, I also don't speak Thai. Tried but cant, just cant.

I personally believe that there are 2 main reasons resident Farangs would wish to leave the Kingdom:

Firstly financial instability and secondly, the lack of free support of ones fellow countrymen living in Thailand. Back in my country there are millions of Immigrants, around these they have built up advice centres, meeting houses and law centres.

For foreigners here that don't speak Thai, which probably pertains to the majority of Farangs living in Thailand, may have to go months without having conversations with their native speakers and there is practically no support for newbies here.

I am only giving probably reasons why many Farangs may begin to feel isolated in Thailand, as this post asks: Why bother staying In Thailand? Of course this is a personal question we must ask ourselves, no one can help out on that one.

In my case I see more reasons for staying in Thailand rather than not and the gloom soon passes, realising that I love it here really and as my dear old granddad once told me, there is no such place as Utopia. But there is room for improvement as mentioned above and I do fully understand the motives of those that are considering leaving this land.

If there were more support here for Farangs by Farangs, maybe this Thaivisa forum wouldn't be so popular as for many this is the only means of Farang communication and a way of gaining knowledge of where we stand here legally and law/policy changes that affect us.

So live long and prosperous, ThaiVisa forums. Your demise would leave us in a boat without a paddle.

Edited October 28, 2007 by distortedlink

[Neeranam]

No offence man but 4 years and you can't say 'Tao Rai'?? I've seen guys like that who have lived here for 5+ years and they strugle on a daily basis to get by, not financially but oher ways.

Two farang missionaries just left my house - when they left, I asked them how long they'd been here - their answer, 3 months. The whole conversation we had was in Thai(apart from a couple of words). They said they had studied one hour a week for 2 months before they came. It's all a matter of attitude - some people expet Thais to speak English, others make an effort to learn.

[jdinasia]

Why stay in a place you do not love?

I love it here .. plain and simple

that's why I learned the language .. (the longer I stay the less I know with language it seems though ... now i can read a paper but now I also know how poor my speaking skills are ... I can make myself understood on any topic but more and more I have to talk around the topic to make my point!)

as for food etc .. get real ... there is such a variety of food here that everyone can eat something in the way of Thai food!

[Acquiesce]

Here's your first lesson - don't procrastinate = ya plaat wan bpragan pruung

ya plaat wan bpragan pruung = don't miss out on insurance day seasoning?

I think he meant ผัดวันประกันพรุ่ง

[drenoi]

The benefits on learning Thai (or at least making an effort) are limitless:

Don't pay falang prices, Girls will flock to you, You can have a joke with almost everyone you meet, You can have a beer with almost everyone you meet, less problems with miscommunication, alot more respect.

Did I mention the fact that girls will flock to you?

Yes, you mentioned it twice. PeaceBlondie, I don't think it is my place to educate him, but perhaps you might want to...

ahh my bad, sorry

[listenup]

I recommend taking a holiday to Bali (not far and cheap) and having a long hard think about what to do.

If you are still un-sure, return to Thailand and study Thai full time (which can include an ED visa)

[qualtrough]

No offence man but 4 years and you can't say 'Tao Rai'?? I've seen guys like that who have lived here for 5+ years and they strugle on a daily basis to get by, not financially but oher ways.

Two farang missionaries just left my house - when they left, I asked them how long they'd been here - their answer, 3 months. The whole conversation we had was in Thai(apart from a couple of words). They said they had studied one hour a week for 2 months before they came. It's all a matter of attitude - some people expet Thais to speak English, others make an effort to learn.

Neeranam, while you raise a good point, but how long have those missionaries been here? Certainly a total of 8 hours of study would not enable anyone to engage in anything but a very superficial conversation, if it could even be called that.

Back to PB, while I understand that some people have a more difficult time than others with some or all foreign languages, the fact that after 4 years he cannot even ask 'How Much?' indicates to me that there is something more involved. I would advise PB to test the waters first before jumping in. I know he has lived in Mexico, etc. before, but before pulling up sticks he might want to take an extended vacation there to see if it really was as good as he remembers.

[Acquiesce]

I asked them how long they'd been here - their answer, 3 months.

but how long have those missionaries been here?

[tijnebijn]

Everybody refers PB as he , I always thought he was a she ?

Don't know where I got this impression from ?

[alaina]

I've never met you PB, but I would still be sad to see you go. Thailand needs teachers like you here. I can't eat spicy food as well and my Thai is not great, but I've decided to give it another shot. (My motivation to learn it is fairly low, I admit that, but my new job is giving me Thai lessons.)

Recently, I left my job and had an agonizing time deciding to leave. Two things made deciding easier: first, I decided that I was done with my last job, there was nothing left that I could accomplish. Second, I was offered a much better job within a week that also paid over 20% more. Looking back, I have no idea why I agonized so much about the choice. If you decide that you are truly resolved in Thailand, start looking around for another place and something is bound to stand out for you.

I thought I was almost done with Thailand this summer and traveled around SEA for a month. To my surprise, I cried on the plane when I returned to Bangkok. The holiday idea is a good suggestion as my holiday made me realize that I'll be here for a bit longer than I expected.